217 replies to this topic

[drionita]

Whilst I agree with you in principle, the same argument can be made against racing in:

- Azerbaijan

- China

- Bahrain

- Russia

 

Nearly a quarter of the races are held in countries with frankly abysmal human rights records, in comparison Brazil is a dreamland. I would love to see the FIA have some principles for once and refuse to race at any country that currently has a UN resolution against it.

You can easliy add Italy to those ones.

[saudoso]

terrible news if we would lose such a beautiful track, that always produces great racing, like Interlagos, from the calendar.


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Edited by jcbc3, 31 May 2019 - 12:17.

[noikeee]

Interlagos is far superior in the recent calendar. Can new Rio layout beat it?

I say no, show me the elevation differences!
Even if it was, the new track could NOT bring that surprising weather developments !

The video of the new circuit showed some pretty noticeable elevation differences.

I'm a bit torn on this. Don't want to lose Interlagos and when you look at that photo and see just a sea of grey everywhere, it's not very exciting. But it does have some interesting challenges from a technical point of view, lots of high speed mid speed corners with particular designs I'm not quite sure I've seen before. It looks soulless but I think it could turn out better than the emotional reaction that provokes.

On the bad side it's pretty much a continuous aero-reliant section for over half of the lap, so whilst that's technically very interesting with very quick cornering speeds, it'll spread out the cars ahead of the two giant straights. This one might rely on DRS to provoke any overtaking (or might be banking already on the new regs making it easier to follow cars), which goes a little against the legacy of Interlagos, a track that has a pretty natural unbroken flow.

[azza200]

Needs more tarmac run off 

[azza200]

[OO7]

According to AustinF1, Tilke wasn't responsible for the COTA design or at least the vast majority of it.  I do mostly agree with the video, but disagree that Tilke "is far better than we the moaning spectators give him credit for".

Edited by OO7, 30 May 2019 - 23:19.

[BalanceUT]

According to AustinF1, Tilke wasn't responsible for the COTA design or at least the vast majority of it.  I do mostly agree with the video, but disagree that Tilke "is far better than we the moaning spectators give him credit for".

Tilke seems to think they did it. https://tilke.de/en/...f-the-americas/

[boomn]

Tilke seems to think they did it. https://tilke.de/en/...f-the-americas/

They helped turn it from concept to full design, and "refined" it to be more in-line with what the FIA wants these days.  But the concept and layout is from Tavo Hellmund and Kevin Schwantz.  Here is a good article about some of the history (link taken from circuit wikipedia article references)

 

The article indirectly references it, but Tavo and Kevin's original design had the esses of T4,5,6 continue through T9, which was just a quick kink. So one you were through T7 it would have been flat out down the hill all the way to the T11 hairpin.  But Tilke turned T9 into the typical 90° corner to create a passing opportunity

Edited by boomn, 31 May 2019 - 00:24.

[OO7]

Appreciate the link boomn.

[Tsarwash]

Tilke seems to think they did it. https://tilke.de/en/...f-the-americas/

Well he is lying then. 

[kumo7]

According to AustinF1, Tilke wasn't responsible for the COTA design or at least the vast majority of it.  I do mostly agree with the video, but disagree that Tilke "is far better than we the moaning spectators give him credit for".

 

you can't tell if it its bad or better, as we have no idea what "the moaning spectators" says.

 

Never the less, I can say not all the Tilke's track is exciting. I kinda liked Turkey, personally.

his tracks are so artificial, and have little enjoyment of dealing with the difficulties that our Mother Nature Earth have given to us. 

Undulation, climbing and going down the slope in a very critical manner, danger...

 

It all sorted out, in a way tamed too much...

 

Only if he could build the likes of Interlagos, Suzuka, Spa....

[LucaP]

I do not understand how people can justify what Tilke did citing the constraints of the Fia rulebook on new circuits.
Termas del Rio Hondo follows the same rules...it's not by Tilke and it's amazing
Portimao follows the same rules..not by Tilke and it's amazing
Austin is not bad too..

[RA2]

They helped turn it from concept to full design, and "refined" it to be more in-line with what the FIA wants these days. But the concept and layout is from Tavo Hellmund and Kevin Schwantz. Here is a good article about some of the history (link taken from circuit wikipedia article references)

The article indirectly references it, but Tavo and Kevin's original design had the esses of T4,5,6 continue through T9, which was just a quick kink. So one you were through T7 it would have been flat out down the hill all the way to the T11 hairpin. But Tilke turned T9 into the typical 90° corner to create a passing opportunity

Why would a bike racer look at hill and think of putting a hair pin on top of it?

[eirwal]

I do not understand how people can justify what Tilke did citing the constraints of the Fia rulebook on new circuits.
Termas del Rio Hondo follows the same rules...it's not by Tilke and it's amazing
Portimao follows the same rules..not by Tilke and it's amazing
Austin is not bad too..

I feel that Termas de Río Hondo is regularly overhyped when discussing track layouts. It's definitely photogenic, a public road snaking through a picuturesque lake + hills scenery sets it apart from most of the dull, standardized "autodrome" or "motordrome" designs that receive much justified criticism.

But a postcard image desn't guarantee good racing. The layout dosn't provide many clear overtaking opportinities and runs between solid walls with little runoff. Passing attempts gone wrong imply lots of safety car deployments to remove cars and debris. Safety car periods tend to be rather long since car removal must reach often distant gaps in the walls to dispose of the wrecks. All this means that races are often chopped up by the safety cars or otherwise turn into processional affairs once the pack strings out.

Pretty pictures but so-so racing. 

[boomn]

I feel that Termas de Río Hondo is regularly overhyped when discussing track layouts. It's definitely photogenic, a public road snaking through a picuturesque lake + hills scenery sets it apart from most of the dull, standardized "autodrome" or "motordrome" designs that receive much justified criticism.

But a postcard image desn't guarantee good racing. The layout dosn't provide many clear overtaking opportinities and runs between solid walls with little runoff. Passing attempts gone wrong imply lots of safety car deployments to remove cars and debris. Safety car periods tend to be rather long since car removal must reach often distant gaps in the walls to dispose of the wrecks. All this means that races are often chopped up by the safety cars or otherwise turn into processional affairs once the pack strings out.

Pretty pictures but so-so racing. 

Are you talking about Potrero de los Funes?  Termas de Rio Hondo is a dedicated circuit with normal open runoff areas

Edited by boomn, 31 May 2019 - 17:18.

[eirwal]

Are you talking about Potrero de los Funes?  Termas de Rio Hondo is a dedicated circuit with normal open runoff areas

Sorry, my bad. I'm so used to seing Potrero being treated so generously that I hastily misread the quoted comment. Termas de Río Hondo is pretty good!

[highdownforce]

Holly crap, you people didn't bought into this, did you?

This whole deal is a factoid!

 

That and the "new new new layout" is just an artistic impression.

 

This whole project is based on the premisse that some mysterious and unnamed private company will show up at some point with USD 200 millions to build the race track and its financial compensation will be to receive 41% of the area that today is owned by the State.

 

At the middle of nowhere!!!

 

I know place, for some years I've took the train that runs alongside that land every single day. If you think that Interlagos has a poor neighborhood, you'd be shocked with Deodoro.

 

This thing is ( A ) a scam, ( B ) a poor populist political propaganda or ( C ) both.

Edited by highdownforce, 31 May 2019 - 21:24.

[NotAPineapple]

I do not understand how people can justify what Tilke did citing the constraints of the Fia rulebook on new circuits.
Termas del Rio Hondo follows the same rules...it's not by Tilke and it's amazing
Portimao follows the same rules..not by Tilke and it's amazing
Austin is not bad too..

Termas de Río Hondo doesn't follow the same rules. It's only an FIA Grade II circuit.