Jump to content


Photo

Should Hulkenberg have got a penalty?


  • Please log in to reply
141 replies to this topic

#51 primer

primer
  • Member

  • 6,664 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 12 September 2010 - 13:56

He didn't do it once. He did it 3 times.


Well then, invite him to steward's office three times and give him three warnings. Do I have to think of everything here? :rolleyes:

Advertisement

#52 Supersleeper

Supersleeper
  • Member

  • 1,441 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 12 September 2010 - 13:56

Hulk was going to be passed. Fred was two or three seconds clear and not exactly under duress from behind. A balk on a pass doesn't equal braking too late and missing a corner.

Wow I pop in here for a bit of sanity and are once again met with moronic comments by those out to spew hatred. :rolleyes:

He cut chicanes 3 times during the race. That not a matter of debate is it?

#53 jato

jato
  • Member

  • 89 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 12 September 2010 - 13:56

I think handing the position back to Webber would have been appropriate. Potentially cost Webber 2 positions but as MP said, the stewards are rubbish and always have been. They amount of time they take to make decisions or let alone investigate them is embaressing to the sport. All three of them are probably just sitting there twiddling their thumbs with a cup of tea each watching the race themselves.

#54 Henrytheeigth

Henrytheeigth
  • Member

  • 4,655 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 12 September 2010 - 13:57

Yea it was disgusting. I bet if were Alonso he would of gotten a drive through no worries. I hate the stewards today!

#55 jmkaos

jmkaos
  • Member

  • 120 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 12 September 2010 - 13:57

Well then, invite him to steward's office three times and give him three warnings. Do I have to think of everything here? :rolleyes:


I hope they forget to put sugar on his coffee at the steward's office at least two times.

#56 Eff One 2002

Eff One 2002
  • Member

  • 879 posts
  • Joined: January 02

Posted 12 September 2010 - 13:59

Alonso did it once, Hulk was a repeat offender.


Precisely. The driving can't be compared. Hulkenberg was bordering on taking the piss the way he repeatedly cut the chicane to stay ahead.

#57 Redstorm

Redstorm
  • Member

  • 343 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:08

He cut chicanes 3 times during the race. That not a matter of debate is it?

Perhaps I'm blind because I could have swore that Hulk cut it at least three times and Fernando only once. Therefore your comment on the FIA in Ferrari's pocket ill informed, on THIS account. Hulk deserved SOMETHING for his actions, Fred didn't. I may have misunderstood what you were going at. If so I apologize.

#58 Megan

Megan
  • Member

  • 289 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:24

Hulkenberg should be punished. I hope he will be punished after the race.



#59 Jim Warbic

Jim Warbic
  • Member

  • 154 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:28

Perhaps I'm blind because I could have swore that Hulk cut it at least three times and Fernando only once. Therefore your comment on the FIA in Ferrari's pocket ill informed, on THIS account. Hulk deserved SOMETHING for his actions, Fred didn't. I may have misunderstood what you were going at. If so I apologize.


SS is taking about the championship. Webber could of been a further 4 points away from Fernando if Hulkenberg had of got a decisive drive through.
Sadly Red Bull should have left Webber out anyway and Webber knows it irrespective of the Hulkenberg drama.

Advertisement

#60 lokiman

lokiman
  • Member

  • 1,702 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:30

Yes, he should have been penalized. Three bloody times he did it and, yes, I do believe that he probably caused Mark to finish one place lower than he otherwise would have. I can't believe that the stewards did nothing.

#61 ApexTomi

ApexTomi
  • Member

  • 115 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:30

Hulk was a naughty boy today. I wonder if they are investigating his actions right now...

#62 Supersleeper

Supersleeper
  • Member

  • 1,441 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:39

SS is taking about the championship. Webber could of been a further 4 points away from Fernando if Hulkenberg had of got a decisive drive through.

Thankyou. :up:


#63 TURU

TURU
  • Member

  • 2,786 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:40

Hulk was a naughty boy today. I wonder if they are investigating his actions right now...


I would rather say he was a retarded boy today. I couldn't believe seeing him cutting these chicanes time after time.

#64 Captain Tightpants

Captain Tightpants
  • Member

  • 8,012 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:42

The title of this thread should say: Should the FIA ban themselves for a few races?

But then who will there be to not give anybody penalties?

#65 Cenotaph

Cenotaph
  • Member

  • 2,316 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:45

if only the teams supported by an energy drink brand were that lucky :)

Edited by Cenotaph, 12 September 2010 - 14:45.


#66 Slowinfastout

Slowinfastout
  • Member

  • 9,681 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:49

I'm surprised Hulkenberg wasn't penalized... he gained a slight advantage 3 times and the Stewards insisted they were going to be severe about that specifically.

They seem confused and mixing up 'severe' and 'lenient'.

#67 Touti

Touti
  • Member

  • 341 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:50

Alguersuari didn't gain any advantage and was penalized for doing this one time. You can't penalize a driver for doing something once and let another one get away with the very same thing 3 times. Whether it affected Webber's race or not is irrelevant, what goes for one should go for everybody.

But we all know there's 24 cars, 24 drivers and 24 rule books in F1.

Edited by Touti, 12 September 2010 - 14:53.


#68 PassWind

PassWind
  • Member

  • 4,823 posts
  • Joined: February 05

Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:55

No. Webber wasn't close enough to gain an advantage.


Only reason he wasn't close enough is because Hulk chose to forget he had a left pedal, you only do that because your under pressure. I am not sure how the Stewards should have treated this, seems only a penalty of some type would be available, I can't see how they could tell him to yield seeing though there wasn't a pass involved.

Maybe they could have ordered him to stop on the side of the track and dismantle his car, so as to simulate the thousand of bits it would have been in if there was something more solid than a safety run through?

I think that is the real issue, I don't see a problem if a driver has to use it once or twice over the whole weekend but when your taking the piss in the braking zones just to ensure no out braking maneuver something needs to be sorted. I just don't think the time it takes to issue a penalty is really fair to the following driver or to the offender its to much of a penalty when its only relating to that exact battle on the race track.


#69 Sardukar

Sardukar
  • Member

  • 432 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:57

Doesnt matter if anyone is near you or not. If you cut the track 3 times its suppose to be a penalty.

#70 TURU

TURU
  • Member

  • 2,786 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:57

Doesnt matter if anyone is near you or not. If you cut the track 3 times its suppose to be a penalty.

:up:


#71 Sausage

Sausage
  • Member

  • 1,796 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:25

I think he should for sure have yielded the spot. 3 times was too many, even though I don't think his blocks were unfair, he always moved only once. I can understand Webbers frustration though.

I really think they should make better systems/rules for this though. I just don't like to see cars go straight and if like nothing happened stay were they are or even get a little more ahead sometimes. Sure they don't do it on purpose, but there has got to be a little disadvantage at least.

#72 FordFan

FordFan
  • Member

  • 3,448 posts
  • Joined: October 99

Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:26

Only for the 3rd time. The first two, Webber wasn't anywhere close to close enough to pass.

His punishment should have been to give up the position by the next lap, or then a drive through.

#73 Gyan

Gyan
  • Member

  • 833 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:28

He should have been punished with a drive through.

#74 JPW

JPW
  • Member

  • 3,335 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:35

Could have been punished but I can understand the stewards didn't.

#75 F1EC

F1EC
  • Member

  • 863 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:41

If they'd penalised Hulkenberg for cutting, wouldn't they also have had to penalise Alonso for when he did it? And no way was that going to happen in Italy, especially when Alonso was lined up for a potential win.
Easier for the stewards to be seen to be incompetent and inconsistent over applying the rules, than to blatantly favour Ferrari.

Edited by F1EC, 12 September 2010 - 15:42.


#76 Ben Wilson

Ben Wilson
  • Member

  • 134 posts
  • Joined: August 06

Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:46

Only for the 3rd time. The first two, Webber wasn't anywhere close to close enough to pass.


The amount of speed he would have had to wash off to take the corner after he had outbraked himself would have ruined his run up the next straight. Webber wouldn't have passed him on that corner, but he would have on the next one..

#77 Henrik B

Henrik B
  • Member

  • 2,700 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:47

I think he should for sure have yielded the spot. 3 times was too many, even though I don't think his blocks were unfair, he always moved only once. I can understand Webbers frustration though.

I really think they should make better systems/rules for this though. I just don't like to see cars go straight and if like nothing happened stay were they are or even get a little more ahead sometimes. Sure they don't do it on purpose, but there has got to be a little disadvantage at least.


He shouldn't have yielded a spot, that's sorting out a cut that resulted in an unfair pass, the proper penalty for cutting corners three times is a drive-through.

#78 jesee

jesee
  • Member

  • 1,666 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:50

Iam not normally one to rush to penalties but Hulkenburg really took the mickey today. If that was Hamilton, it would have been " Car number two under investigation straight away" and this forum would be up in arms.

#79 Cenotaph

Cenotaph
  • Member

  • 2,316 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:51

hmm, so if that was vettel no investigation would be needed at all. immediate drive-thru :D

Advertisement

#80 Jim Warbic

Jim Warbic
  • Member

  • 154 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:52

Iam not normally one to rush to penalties but Hulkenburg really took the mickey today. If that was Hamilton, it would have been " Car number two under investigation straight away" and this forum would be up in arms.


Not quite if it was Hamilton he would have got a warning, that seems to be what Hamilton gets this year 'warnings'

#81 Ricardo F1

Ricardo F1
  • Member

  • 38,361 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:52

No.

#82 jesee

jesee
  • Member

  • 1,666 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:52

If they'd penalised Hulkenberg for cutting, wouldn't they also have had to penalise Alonso for when he did it? And no way was that going to happen in Italy, especially when Alonso was lined up for a potential win.
Easier for the stewards to be seen to be incompetent and inconsistent over applying the rules, than to blatantly favour Ferrari.


Exactly. It didn't come as a suprise that Alonso got away with it. I think that is the reason they didn't penalize Hulkenburg.

#83 Madras

Madras
  • Member

  • 3,911 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:53

Exactly. It didn't come as a suprise that Alonso got away with it. I think that is the reason they didn't penalize Hulkenburg.



For the 10th time Hulk cut chicanes at least THREE times.

#84 BullHead

BullHead
  • Member

  • 6,695 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:55

They should have told the team that Hulk has to let Webber past, or face a penalty.

#85 Ali_G

Ali_G
  • Member

  • 18,112 posts
  • Joined: August 00

Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:57

For the 10th time Hulk cut chicanes at least THREE times.


It is a very easy concept isn't it.

#86 jesee

jesee
  • Member

  • 1,666 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 12 September 2010 - 16:01

For the 10th time Hulk cut chicanes at least THREE times.


Are you saying it is OK for Alonso to cut the chicane one or two times?

#87 Madras

Madras
  • Member

  • 3,911 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 12 September 2010 - 16:02

Are you saying it is OK for Alonso to cut the chicane one or two times?


Apparently the rules say if you dont gain advantage it is overlooked unless you do it 3 times.

#88 Slowinfastout

Slowinfastout
  • Member

  • 9,681 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 12 September 2010 - 16:05

Are you saying it is OK for Alonso to cut the chicane one or two times?


Alonso made a mistake and probably didn't gain from it..

Hulkenberg made at least two mistakes and noticeably gained a couple of meters on his adversary when actively defending his position.

Pretty sad that something like that has to be explained... plus, the Stewards warned everyone they would be severe about that specific issue, so much for that.

#89 JackTorrance

JackTorrance
  • Member

  • 2,065 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 12 September 2010 - 16:09

Im Jacks happy sunshine today with Alonsos win and all...yet that bunch of idiots stewarding this race oughta be criminally prosecuted.

Webber is a championship candidate. These morons should at least give him a little bit of credit.

Lets not forget they shot down his title charge last year as well, when they gave him a drive through at Spa for an unsafe release wich was in no way, his fault.

#90 Diablobb81

Diablobb81
  • Member

  • 3,476 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 12 September 2010 - 16:10

Alonso made a mistake and probably didn't gain from it..


Yes, Alonso made a mistake and lost 1 sec. What does it have to with Hulk and why should he even be considered for a penalty?

Hulk was racing on his own track and when he rejoined in front of Webber wasn't the smartest move today.

Edited by Diablobb81, 12 September 2010 - 16:11.


#91 jesee

jesee
  • Member

  • 1,666 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 12 September 2010 - 16:10

Apparently the rules say if you dont gain advantage it is overlooked unless you do it 3 times.


You always gain an advantage by cutting the chicane. You are straight lining the corner and gaining time on the guy infront or at the very least, you can recover from a mistake you have made. Or are you saying that if that was Monaco, Alonso would still do what he did? No, because he would be out of the race. It doesn't make it right whether it is Hulkenburg doing it, or Ferrari at home race with Alonso onboard. Maybe the few tenths he gained or time he recovered was the difference that paid off later in pit stops we will never know will we?

Edited by jesee, 12 September 2010 - 16:11.


#92 Diablobb81

Diablobb81
  • Member

  • 3,476 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 12 September 2010 - 16:12

Maybe the few tenths he gained or time he recovered was the difference that paid off later in pit stops we will never know will we?


Alonso lost 1 sec. And wasn't his off after the pitstop?

#93 jesee

jesee
  • Member

  • 1,666 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 12 September 2010 - 16:15

Alonso lost 1 sec. And wasn't his off after the pitstop?


You are not getting my point. He made a mistake in his braking and cut the chicane. If there was a wall there like Monaco, he would not do that. He knew he could take the risk and gain from it without risking his race if it pays off. Therefore cutting a chicane is an advantage.

#94 Slowinfastout

Slowinfastout
  • Member

  • 9,681 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 12 September 2010 - 16:19

You always gain an advantage by cutting the chicane. You are straight lining the corner and gaining time on the guy infront or at the very least, you can recover from a mistake you have made. Or are you saying that if that was Monaco, Alonso would still do what he did? No, because he would be out of the race. It doesn't make it right whether it is Hulkenburg doing it, or Ferrari at home race with Alonso onboard. Maybe the few tenths he gained or time he recovered was the difference that paid off later in pit stops we will never know will we?


That's the interpretation you made up in your head.

Usually, cutting the track is penalized when someone gains from it in a close fight, which is what happened with Hulkenberg and Webber.

What Alonso did happens very often and, without being a pedantic weirdo, it was between him and the track. It was an honest mistake which didn't bother any of his competitors.

#95 prty

prty
  • Member

  • 5,161 posts
  • Joined: April 05

Posted 12 September 2010 - 16:20

You always gain an advantage by cutting the chicane. You are straight lining the corner and gaining time on the guy infront or at the very least, you can recover from a mistake you have made. Or are you saying that if that was Monaco, Alonso would still do what he did? No, because he would be out of the race. It doesn't make it right whether it is Hulkenburg doing it, or Ferrari at home race with Alonso onboard. Maybe the few tenths he gained or time he recovered was the difference that paid off later in pit stops we will never know will we?


What the hell are you talking about? It was after the pitstop, it reduced Alonso's lead from almost 4 seconds to 2.7, and after Hungary 2006 Whiting said you have to jump it 3 times for a penalty to be applied.


#96 jesee

jesee
  • Member

  • 1,666 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 12 September 2010 - 16:21

That's the interpretation you made up in your head.

Usually, cutting the track is penalized when someone gains from it in a close fight, which is what happened with Hulkenberg and Webber.

What Alonso did happens very often and, without being a pedantic weirdo, it was between him and the track. It was an honest mistake which didn't bother any of his competitors.


My point and arguement is that where there is a chicane and an escape route, you can take more risk than where there is a wall. That is a fact....or are you saying Alonso would cut the chicane at Monaco?


#97 mikerr

mikerr
  • New Member

  • 11 posts
  • Joined: September 08

Posted 12 September 2010 - 16:22

You are not getting my point. He made a mistake in his braking and cut the chicane. If there was a wall there like Monaco, he would not do that. He knew he could take the risk and gain from it without risking his race if it pays off. Therefore cutting a chicane is an advantage.

Agreed -its a driver decision to cut the chicane instead of locking up, losing more time by getting back onto the circuit earlier.

Never used to happen when there was more gravel & grass around - because they would lose more time cutting...

#98 Cenotaph

Cenotaph
  • Member

  • 2,316 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 12 September 2010 - 16:22

Alonso's cut was completely irrelevant, it would not be an issue at all if Nico got a penalty. Jaime is the only one who should feel robbed.

#99 Slowinfastout

Slowinfastout
  • Member

  • 9,681 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 12 September 2010 - 16:23

What the hell are you talking about? It was after the pitstop, it reduced Alonso's lead from almost 4 seconds to 2.7, and after Hungary 2006 Whiting said you have to jump it 3 times for a penalty to be applied.


He seems to think the Stewards should prosecute like there's an imaginary wall there...

Incidents like that have never been treated this way, so it's a very personal thing to that particular poster.

Advertisement

#100 jesee

jesee
  • Member

  • 1,666 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 12 September 2010 - 16:25

Agreed -its a driver decision to cut the chicane instead of locking up, losing more time by getting back onto the circuit earlier.

Never used to happen when there was more gravel & grass around - because they would lose more time cutting...


That is exactly my point :up: