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Holbay: John Read and his engines


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#1 SJ Lambert

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 12:28

I must admit to having more than a passing interest in John Read and his Holbay Racing Engines concern. Despite having found numerous period articles detailing the creations of his illustrious contemporary firm Messrs Duckworth and Costin, I've been unable to find even one article on any Holbay motors.

It appears, from Continental Race results and consulting Nordic Championship Results (amongst others), that Holbay, in the mid sixties, had a fair bit of success in a number of categories - it looks like for a time even the Brabham F3 cars may have had Holbay units recomended as power plants of first choice?

A post from a few years back posed the question as to whether concerns such as Holbay, Novamotor & others simply developed Cosworth units or developed the base Ford (or other original production based units) from scratch.

From having inspected an original Holbay S65 unit it is obvious that it is a fully independantly (of Cosworth) developed unit in it's own right.

If anyone can point me in the direction of articles or technical details concerning the S65 or similar units I'd be very grateful. I'd also be most interested in discovering more, that is anything, about John Reid, the inception of Holbay and detail concerning the racing and sports racing engines they developed in the sixties. It seems as though they had contracts with Lotus at one point. Whether they worked with other constructors or not is a mystery to me at this stage.

James

Edited by SJ Lambert, 17 April 2012 - 08:35.


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#2 elansprint72

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 12:34

I must admit to having more than a passing interest in John Reid and his Holbay Racing Engines concern. Despite having found numerous period articles detailing the creations of his illustrious contemporary firm Messrs Duckworth and Costin, I've been unable to find even one article on any Holbay motors.

It appears, from Continental Race results and consulting Nordic Championship Results (amongst others), that Holbay, in the mid sixties, had a fair bit of success in a number of categories - it looks like for a time even the Brabham F3 cars may have Holbay units recomended as power plants of first choice?

A post from a few years back posed the question as to whether concerns such as Holbay, Novamotor & others simply developed Cosworth units or developed the base Ford (or other original production based units) from scratch.

From having inspected an original Holbay S65 unit it is obvious that it is a fully independantly (of Cosworth) developed unit in it's own right.

If anyone can point me in the direction of articles or technical details concerning the S65 or similar units I'd be very grateful. I'd also be most interested in discovering more, that is anything, about John Reid, the inception of Holbay and detail concerning the racing and sports racing engines they developed in the sixties. It seems as though they had contracts with Lotus at one point. Whether they worked with other constructors or not is a mystery to me at this stage.

James


Can't help with info, other than to say that Holbay had their own cam-covers cast for the Lotus TC motor, these are quite collectable now.


#3 Bloggsworth

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 13:09

I recall their 1 Litre Ford engines being competetive until Cosworth introduced the MAE. They also tuned Rootes Group engines for Alpines and, presumably, Rapiers.

I recall Martlesham Heath fairly well; I was at a London County Council school at Woolverstone outside Ipswich, and we used to cycle over to the old airfield at the Heath and play in the Spitfire fuselages leaning up against the hanger walls - Would that we knew then....

#4 bradbury west

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 13:30

Presumably that was after their time at HOLlesley BAY?
Roger Lund

#5 Patrick Fletcher

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 13:31

The J.H.Haynes Ford Tuning Manual 1964 [page 109] refers to John Read of Holbay, tuning and developing engines for prominent racing stables over some considerable time but it was not until the summer of 1960 that a complete engine was offered.
Later racing engines had been specified as original equipment in the following makes:- Alexis, Brabham, Cooper, de Tomaso, Elva, Lotus, Lola, Merlin, Trojeiro and numerous sports and sports racing cars.

Edited by Patrick Fletcher, 13 September 2010 - 13:34.


#6 Patrick Fletcher

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 13:49

page 112 ..... possibly the final development of the Holbay-Ford in pushrod form, made a very successful debut at Brands Hatch on Boxing Day when in the Brabham driven by Denis Hulme it won the race with ease after convincingly smashing the lap record during official practice.

#7 charles r

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 14:28

Presumably that was after their time at HOLlesley BAY?
Roger Lund


Spot on. Also home to a well known approved school at the time.

#8 Leigh Trevail

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 14:32

The Holbay company originally was set up in Hollesley Bay before moving to Martlesham (near the B.T. building) and then Grundisburgh,. All these Suffolk villages are in the heart of the area covered by the Eastern Counties Motor Club.

One of these members was Laurence ‘Slim’ Coe who started working for Holbay in the mid sixties as the Design and Development Engineer. In the late sixties he was in charge of taking a small team of Lotus cars to South America to compete in Formula Ford. It was here that he first met Emerson Fittipaldi; who he encouraged to come to the U.K. Emerson enrolled with the Jim Russell Racing School who were one of Holbay’s customers.

As a coincidence; googling Holbay put me onto the website of Coltec, who work out of the original Holbay site at Hollesley Bay.





#9 John Ginger

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 16:43

Wasn't there a Holbay version of the Hillman Hunter in the 70's - GLS or something similar, springs to mind

Modified cyl head and twin side-draught carbs, if I remember correctly

#10 Bloggsworth

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 16:49

Wasn't there a Holbay version of the Hillman Hunter in the 70's - GLS or something similar, springs to mind

Modified cyl head and twin side-draught carbs, if I remember correctly


Were they responsible for powering the race-winning Hillmans (The Hunters & Avengers, not the Imps)?

Edited by Bloggsworth, 13 September 2010 - 16:55.


#11 John Ginger

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 17:04

Were they responsible for powering the race-winning Hillmans (The Hunters & Avengers, not the Imps)?


Not sure on that, I was thinking of road version

I can't remember which versions Bernard Unett used in Prod saloons

#12 PhilG

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 18:14

Wasn't there a Holbay version of the Hillman Hunter in the 70's - GLS or something similar, springs to mind

Modified cyl head and twin side-draught carbs, if I remember correctly



The Hunter GLS had a 1725 Holbay in it, and a friend who had one had all sorts of fun in it , annoying XR3 drivers with its turn of speed.

Bernard Unett was a customer in the garage where i used to work, and while i knew he was involved in the competitions department at Humber Road, i never realised his full prowess as a driver until i found this forum some years later, which was a little sad, as he was a character, and im sure he would have had some tales.



#13 bradbury west

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 18:42

Spot on. Also home to a well known approved school at the time.


There is also nowadays the major centre for the future protection and lineage of shire horses IIRC based over there. Is it connected to the prison?
I found John Reid a most affable man when I had cause to research the spec and provenance of the Holbay 1100, 1163/167, in my old Ginetta G4.
Roger Lund

Edited by bradbury west, 13 September 2010 - 22:19.


#14 hatrat

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 19:11

A post from a few years back posed the question as to whether concerns such as Holbay, Novamotor & others simply developed Cosworth units or developed the base Ford (or other original production based units) from scratch.



I have recently been in contact with an ex Holbay employee (1959 - 1963) in my quest for information on period Formula Junior heads. He advised the following :

"I worked for Holbay 1959 to 1963. During that period I have no recollection of Ford supplying special heads. We used to buy complete 105E engines from Ford and strip them down. We retained the standard block (bored out) and standard head castings with extensively re-worked ports with with larger valves".

It appears from this that at least in the period up to 1963 Holbay developed Ford race engines from new stock they obtained from Ford.

#15 RogerFrench

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 02:08

Wasn't a Holbay-modified 1600 Kent engine the standard fare in the last of the Lotus Seven S3s?

#16 RCH

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 07:25

Wasn't there a Holbay version of the Hillman Hunter in the 70's - GLS or something similar, springs to mind

Modified cyl head and twin side-draught carbs, if I remember correctly


The Sunbeam Rapier H120 was the first production Rootes car to use the Holbay developed 1725 engine although it was the engine used in the "London-Sydney" Hunter so not sure whether it was a competition engine productionised or vice versa.

The Hillman Hunter GLS appeared later with the Holbay unit and was the car Bernard Unett used in production car racing.

I have a feeling that Holbay may have worked on Rootes engines before this but they were never credited for it. I also seem to remember reading that Holbay were proposing a 1600cc. Formula 2 engine based on the Hunter block.

#17 Bloggsworth

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 07:32

charlesr, is that a Nomad in your avatar?

#18 SJ Lambert

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 08:21

page 112 ..... possibly the final development of the Holbay-Ford in pushrod form, made a very successful debut at Brands Hatch on Boxing Day when in the Brabham driven by Denis Hulme it won the race with ease after convincingly smashing the lap record during official practice.



May have been at the time, I've seen mention of an R68 (and I further presume that the numerical prefixes in relation to their Ford motors relate to annual updates and guess that R is for "Race" and S is for "Sports Racing" Holbay engine which I presume to be a pushrod F3 engine, the S65 to which I have access, is a "1965" vintage engine, is on a five bearing 120E block, has a Laystall Crank of 50.65mm throw and 85 mm bore making it an 1150cc motor - Carl Haas sent it out to Elfin Australia for a Sports Racing Car and I further presume that such engines were used to some extent in cars including Ginettas in Sports Racing in the up to 1150cc Sports Racing class in the UK?

#19 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 09:22

Originally posted by SJ Lambert
.....the S65 to which I have access, is a "1965" vintage engine, is on a five bearing 120E block, has a Laystall Crank of 50.65mm throw and 85 mm bore making it an 1150cc motor - Carl Haas sent it out to Elfin Australia for a Sports Racing Car and I further presume that such engines were used to some extent in cars including Ginettas in Sports Racing in the up to 1150cc Sports Racing class in the UK?


It was for a US class, however...

Though the engine was sent to Australia, that was merely for installation in the Elfin 300 that was bound for America.

It's the subject of a couple of threads on this forum. A truly beautiful car... and only raced about three times in period.

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#20 SJ Lambert

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 09:34

It was for a US class, however...

Though the engine was sent to Australia, that was merely for installation in the Elfin 300 that was bound for America.

It's the subject of a couple of threads on this forum. A truly beautiful car... and only raced about three times in period.


The car together with locomotion still provided by the original Holbay power plant, looks set to appear at Baskerville next month!

#21 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 10:26

If only it could do a lap of the Farm...

And if only I could see it run, I did mean it when I said they are a beautiful car, and that one's the best of all.

#22 PS30-SB

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 10:31

Apologies for my poor photos, but here's a Holbay R65 mounted in a Lotus belonging to a friend of mine in Japan:

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Edited by PS30-SB, 14 September 2010 - 10:31.


#23 SJ Lambert

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 10:40

Presumably that was after their time at HOLlesley BAY?
Roger Lund



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They were quite good with detail..........



#24 SJ Lambert

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 11:20

.............. here's a Holbay R65 mounted in a Lotus belonging to a friend of mine in Japan:


G'day PS30-SB - I don't suppose you can advise on the engine specs of the R65 and/or the attached carburettors?

The S65 has twin 40 IDF Webers with 33 chokes - orig spec plugs are said to have been Champion L5BR or Lodge R49, pistons are two ring slipper type, springs free length 1.625" with fitted pressure of 86 lbs - power quoted as 127 bhp at 8400, max safe revs at 8600. Rods are pretty long - have yet to measure centre to centre length. Cam drive is via gears (proprietary Holbay - idler is on high side and mounted in dry sump pump/front cover - as opposed to the MAE low mount in front main bearing cap Cosworth style) - Later chain drive Formula Ford Holbay dry sump pumps used a very similar casting - perhaps even the same front casting without being machined in order to have the idler gear bearing installed.


And Ray, if you can't get to Baskerville, in coming months there may well be opportunities at Phillip Island, Longford and Mallala!!

James

#25 PS30-SB

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 11:38

SJ Lambert,
Nothing off the top of my head, but Japanese magazine 'Car Graphic' did a very comprehensive article on the car when it first arrived in Japan in the mid Sixties. They were even present when the engine was taken apart, and they went into great detail on it.
I have a copy of the article around here somewhere, so it might be better if I dig it out and mail it to you direct?

#26 bradbury west

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 11:42

Rocker shaft thing off my 1163/167. I just love it.
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#27 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 07:57

G'day PS30-SB - I don't suppose you can advise on the engine specs of the R65 and/or the attached carburettors?

The S65 has twin 40 IDF Webers with 33 chokes - orig spec plugs are said to have been Champion L5BR or Lodge R49, pistons are two ring slipper type, springs free length 1.625" with fitted pressure of 86 lbs - power quoted as 127 bhp at 8400, max safe revs at 8600. Rods are pretty long - have yet to measure centre to centre length. Cam drive is via gears (proprietary Holbay - idler is on high side and mounted in dry sump pump/front cover - as opposed to the MAE low mount in front main bearing cap Cosworth style) - Later chain drive Formula Ford Holbay dry sump pumps used a very similar casting - perhaps even the same front casting without being machined in order to have the idler gear bearing installed.


And Ray, if you can't get to Baskerville, in coming months there may well be opportunities at Phillip Island, Longford and Mallala!!

James


How about Eastern Creek in November for the Tasman Revival, James??


#28 SJ Lambert

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 08:24

How about Eastern Creek in November for the Tasman Revival, James??


G'day Paul
Glass tail has been commissioned to enable original aluminium nose and tail to "rest easy" - am fairly sure, nay, certain, won't be ready to turn out for Eastern Creek - as they say at Conmurra Avenue - "There's always next year" (or the year after in this case!!)
Cheers
James

#29 Ray Bell

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 09:20

Originally posted by Paul Hamilton
How about Eastern Creek in November for the Tasman Revival, James?


Excellent suggestion...

I might even make that one! And it would look good there as well.

#30 Bloggsworth

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 22:12

A March for sale with Holbay's answer to the MAE:-

The wheels don't look right, but then, it was 39 years ago!

Edited by Bloggsworth, 15 September 2010 - 22:15.


#31 Cirrus

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 22:24

Those wheels are probably 8" and 10" with 20" dia fronts and 22" dia rears. In period they were probably 10" and 12" with 22" fronts and 23" rears. 1 Litre F3 cars just don't look right on the smaller tyres.

#32 Ray Bell

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 22:53

They're the right size wheels for an 1100cc car...

Or is it a larger engine than that? I know F3 in 1970 was bigger, but Bloggsworth mentions it being an answer to the MAE, which I recall as being a little engine.

#33 Patrick Fletcher

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 01:36

F3 was 1 litre from 1964 - 1970. From 1971 engine size went to 1600cc but restricted on engine air supply.

#34 SJ Lambert

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 04:31

F3 was 1 litre from 1964 - 1970. From 1971 engine size went to 1600cc but restricted on engine air supply.



Though this one is not strictly a F3 engine, I reckon it has some similarities. It's on a 105E head and a five bearing 120E block. Sorry about the tape on the trumpets.
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Edited by SJ Lambert, 16 September 2010 - 04:32.


#35 Bloggsworth

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 07:22

Though this one is not strictly a F3 engine, I reckon it has some similarities. It's on a 105E head and a five bearing 120E block. Sorry about the tape on the trumpets.
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I would suggest that it is an F3 engine, and by using a pair of DD Webers (An assumption) it has been converted to an inexpensive 1 Litre F2 engine... Cheaper than an Cosworth SCA.

The clingfilm stops small children dropping chewing gum into the works.

Edited by Bloggsworth, 16 September 2010 - 07:24.


#36 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 07:38

And I'd suggest it's an 1150cc version of the F3 engine...

That's the engine that's been in that Elfin 300 for over forty years.

#37 Bloggsworth

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 07:55

And I'd suggest it's an 1150cc version of the F3 engine...

That's the engine that's been in that Elfin 300 for over forty years.


Being an ignorant Pommie, I was not aware of the 1150cc F3 class, we didn't have it in the Old Country... Hold on, that looks like a sports-car chassis.... Doh!
Mind you, I'm not totally daft, I'm pretty sure in the early months of the 1 Litre F2 there were a few drivers using converted MAEs; One for sale here.

Edited by Bloggsworth, 16 September 2010 - 08:03.


#38 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 07:55

And I'd suggest it's an 1150cc version of the F3 engine...

That's the engine that's been in that Elfin 300 for over forty years.



But with a somewhat more generous induction system, Ray. F3 engines were required to breath through a single carburettor choke!!

#39 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 08:04

Oh yes, I'm sure it breathes very well...

And the camshaft might be a tad better too. Again, let's make a plea for it to be at the Tasman Revival meeting. It would be a more original Elfin than yours, Paul... though much less raced.

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#40 SJ Lambert

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 11:44

Being an ignorant Pommie, I was not aware of the 1150cc F3 class, we didn't have it in the Old Country... Hold on, that looks like a sports-car chassis.... Doh!
Mind you, I'm not totally daft, I'm pretty sure in the early months of the 1 Litre F2 there were a few drivers using converted MAEs; One for sale here.


I still reckon/am guessing that Holbay built this engine (actually, as Ray says, the above one was for SCCA racing in the USA) and probably dozens just like it for small capacity sports racers in Britain in 1965/6. Four inlet tracts must be more fun than one - here's Roy Pike slogging it out at Brands in Sept 69 (pic courtesy of Gerald Swans collection from 69 -74) with just the one - and those Welsh Plugs look suspiciously like proprietary Holbay ones.......(Did anyone else make aluminium bolt in ones back then???) - see current day shot of S65 one (still an original 40 year old one) for comparison.


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Edited by SJ Lambert, 16 September 2010 - 12:04.


#41 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 12:20

While we're on the subject there, SJ...

What were the US classes?

#42 SJ Lambert

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 13:18

While we're on the subject there, SJ...

What were the US classes?


Well, I'm not entirely sure, Paul may know more than I, but when the 300 was commissioned in around '65 the 1150cc class was "G" and "G modified" and Catford's book certainly reckons the car was slated for class "G", I believe that by the time the car hit the track in 68 it seems to be sporting a "C". (Though "C" doesn't gel with the description below.....not initially at least)

A site containing info on the "SCCA National Sports Car Championship" from '51 through into the late sixties http://wsrp.ic.cz/nationals.html named World Sports Racing Prototypes mentions that from an embrionic start in 1951, in '54 things changed somewhat with cars being divided into Modified and Production sports car categories and further divided into many classes according to engine capacities -ironically the site reckons the first change was moving the traditional 1100cc G class to 1300cc...

I don't know what the different Modified class capacities were, but the aforementioned site says there were classes B,C,D,E,F,G & H for Modifieds. Production classes were extended for really small capacity cars to I and J. In the early sixties, when quicker Ferrari GTs and more powerful Corvettes appeared a new top class, "A" was created for them.

The site then says that a real change of class came in the mid 60's with the arrival of Group 7 Can Am cars - seems to be suggesting that really, "modified" cars weren't really modified, they were out and out Sport Racing Cars and modified was subsequently dropped in order to call the classes Sports Racing (SR classes) - eventually (into the late 60s) merging all classes into just four, called ASR, BSR, CSR and DSR.

Could be clearer, but perhaps the "C" on the side of the Elfin in 68 does fit in the four class nonclementure if it's presumed that "DSR" is the 1 litre class, "CSR" could be up to 1500cc, "BSR" 1501 to 2500 or thereabouts and "ASR" are the Can Am cars.........maybe.

Someone in the SCCA could confirm or clarify all of the above.

James

Edited by SJ Lambert, 16 September 2010 - 20:42.


#43 SJ Lambert

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 08:22

Sports Racing in the up to 1150cc Sports Racing class in the UK?


In Autocar 27 May 1966 an article presented by Peter Garnier "1,2,3 and SRC" - "Guide to the Formulae" provides considerable assistance to me, having been a babe in arms in the sixties, not making short pants til the seventies.....

Anyway, my supposition that the Holbay S65 engine being produced for Sports Racing Car Class in Britain is seemingly given some creedance when Peter describes two seater racers, namely a Group 7. Requirements included a starter motor operated from the cockpit. The article reckoned that the BRSCC shunned Sports Race Cars as the noise,speed, fire and general "hairiness" created immense popularity with the crowds - not to mention size and variety -and that such ingredients were lacking in the the three single seater formulae!!!

Peter reckoned that the BARC took the opposite view and embraced Sports Race Cars with classes in the Group being as follows;
Under or equal to 850cc
850cc to 1150cc
1150cc to 1600cc
1600cc to 2000cc
2000cc to 3000cc
3000cc to 5000cc
and over 5000cc.

Surely, that Racing Group and category is the source/inspiration for the Holbay S65 1150cc engine?

The article also provides a history of Formula 1, as well as descriptions of the inception of Formula 2 and the transition from Formula Junior to Formula 3. The S65 doesn't fit into any of the later regimes.

James

Edited by SJ Lambert, 17 September 2010 - 12:30.


#44 SJ Lambert

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 02:42

Wasn't a Holbay-modified 1600 Kent engine the standard fare in the last of the Lotus Seven S3s?


Could well have been.

They did a fair bit of stuff over the years, Graham Robson's Sporting Ford's vol 2 (Escorts) displays a photo of a 16 valve Holbay developed cylinder head for the RS 2000 (Pinto) that was not "productionized". The same book reckons production BDAs (for RS 1600s and RS1800s) were assembled for Ford by Harpers of Letchworth, Weslake of Rye, Brian Hart of Harlow New Town, Terry Hoyle of Essex and Holbay of Ipswich.

#45 RS2000

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 20:48

a 16 valve Holbay developed cylinder head for the RS 2000 (Pinto) that was not "productionized".


No, no, no...don't mention "the Holbay head"....
(a point of contention in UK historic rallying because the much later - and different - Warrior head is allowed instead so long as it has a "Holbay" cam cover).
It was homologated in Gp2 for the RS2000 in 1974 but "used in rallying in period" before the end of 74 (and thus Cat2 eligible) is "for discussion"...

#46 Ray Bell

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 21:10

Originally posted by RS2000
No, no, no...don't mention "the Holbay head"....
(a point of contention in UK historic rallying because the much later - and different - Warrior head is allowed instead so long as it has a "Holbay" cam cover).....


You've got to be kidding?

No? And I gather you're not happy about it either?

#47 SJ Lambert

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 11:39

Wasn't a Holbay-modified 1600 Kent engine the standard fare in the last of the Lotus Seven S3s?


Have been doing some more checking, Miles Wilkins, in his Lotus Twin Cam Engine book, says that under Mike Walker of Lotus Components at Hethel, the Lotus Seven S3 had a standard twin cam engine. Later, in 1970, he collaborated with Holbay ....to produce the S3 SS with a 'tweaked' twin cam (giving 125 or 135 bhp) ........Only 13 of these were made, and with the announcement of the Big Valve unit, the Holbay tuned version was dropped. Following on from the S3 came the S4, in either Big Valve form....or with the 1600 GT Cortina pushrod engine.

Does that sound about right?

James

#48 SJ Lambert

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 12:36

I have recently been in contact with an ex Holbay employee (1959 - 1963) in my quest for information on period Formula Junior heads. He advised the following :

"I worked for Holbay 1959 to 1963. During that period I have no recollection of Ford supplying special heads. We used to buy complete 105E engines from Ford and strip them down. We retained the standard block (bored out) and standard head castings with extensively re-worked ports with with larger valves".

It appears from this that at least in the period up to 1963 Holbay developed Ford race engines from new stock they obtained from Ford.



hatrat, do you reckon your ex Holbay contact is mates with any ex Holbay fellows from 63 to 66,67 or thereabouts?

The reason I'm harping on is that now I'm intrigued to learn to what extent Holbay used 105E blocks in conjunction with 116E/120E blocks when the five bearing ones became available. Or, did they cease using three bearing blocks at the end of the FJ era (or at some later stage and move soley to five bearing ones)? I'm working from a very small sample from 1965, but Dad's S65 and the R65 (dinky di F3 997cc engine in the article PS30-SB turned up) both apparently 1965 vintage engines, both definitely employed five bearing blocks, one small bore, the other large bore. I suppose it depends what type of racing engines (or, rather, how many racing types) they were trying to cover. I keep forgetting to take account of saloon car racing when thinking about these things........

For their Sports Racing S65 engine, they had a 105E head, downdrafted, on the 120E block, I suspect, 1) because they could with SRC rules/regs & 2) cause an Anglia head allowed for little combustion chambers on a small capacity engine that therefore allowed them to get the compression ratio they needed.


So, a bit more scratching around has revealed another period commentary on Ford's engines of the period, this time in Autocar, 7 January, 1966 where Sports Editor, Peter Garnier on page 37 in his "The Sport" column. It doesn't shed any light on what block types Holbay were using, but it does give Holbay a bit of a chuck on the shoulder and feeds my bias in their favour!!!

"British Saloon car Championship , ...being run to Group 5, works supported teams of Cortinas and Anglias will take part. In the 1000cc class two Anglias entered by Broadspeed, with engines modified by Cosworth, will be driven by John Fitzpatrick and Peter Procter. In the up to 1300cc class, two 1200 cc Anglias, prepared by John Young of Superspeed Conversions, will be driven by Mike Young and Chris Craft.

Team Lotus, with Jim Clark, Jack Sears and Peter Arundell, will run two Group 5 Cortina Lotuses in the Championship races. Because Group 5 allows so many more modifications - in fact you can do pretty well anything you like provided you don't increase the capacity above the top limit of the class into which the engine originally fell, and don't change the camshaft(s) position - the engines will be specially prepared by BRM. They will have dry sump lubrication, and a new Lucas fuel injection system......

Added to all this, there are Ford's formula 2 and 3 acivities. Dominating formula 2 since its early beginnings, the Cosworth Type SCA engine, based on the Ford 1500cc, 5-main bearing block, is now producing more power since it has been fitted with fuel injection ( the Edward Eves article, Cosworth SCA 65 in Autocar 16 April 1965 has customer engines equipment as two Weber 40 DCM2 carburettors with 32 mm chokes) and is being used by several of the main contenders during 1966......

In formula 3, Holbay and Cosworth prepared Ford units have swept the board.

Finally, Ford say that Cosworth Engineering, in conjunction with Ford of Britain, are well advanced with their programme for a new formula 2 unit (for the new formula 2) as well as the formula 1 engine recently announced...." (and we all know where those two power plants went).

Anyway, the point of my reproduction of all that is that it's nice to see Holbay mentioned in their "niche" in the same breath as the colossus of Cosworth on an equal footing as far as F3 is concerned. Peter Garnier's point was that Ford rate the publicity of competition success very highly and pity the fact that other manufacurers didn't feel the same way............

Makes me wonder in these engines, how big an issue bearing drag was/is versus valve train integrity/valve spring rates/breathing in general and whether or not Holbay spent just many, or many, many hours on different camshaft variations......


Is Laurence 'Slim' Coe still with us?

If your Holbay contact was prepared to comment on the blocks and even the Anglia head on five bearing block theory I'd be all ears!!!

Cheers


James

Edited by SJ Lambert, 27 September 2010 - 12:49.


#49 Leigh Trevail

Leigh Trevail
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Posted 27 September 2010 - 13:19

Unfortunately Laurence 'Slim' Coe died in 1989..

#50 Leigh Trevail

Leigh Trevail
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Posted 17 October 2010 - 08:39

Posted Image

Michael C. Brown took this image of Roy James in his Royale RP21 that he raced in 1976/77 not sure where it is, looks every part a seventies race driver. :smoking:


I have taken the liberty to lift andyrp 26's contribution to the Roy James (of the Great Train Robbery fame) thread. The sticker on the screen either reads 'Holbay' or 'I've been to Hollesley Bay', I am not sure which.

Edited by Leigh Trevail, 17 October 2010 - 09:12.