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Mystery drivers at Sebring, 1960


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#1 Jerry Entin

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 15:22

Posted Image
Two Mystery drivers accepting their trophy from Alec Ulmann after the Sebring 12 Hours in 1960.

The dog is probably Mary Ulmann's, but who are the drivers?

Photo: Willem Oosthoek Collection

Edited by Jerry Entin, 18 September 2010 - 15:32.


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#2 David Birchall

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 17:14

Here is a list of finishers from the www.wspr-racing site:

Classified:

1. 42 Hans Herrmann / D Porsche 718 RS60 718042 Joakim Bonnier 196 12:00:03,030 1. S1.6
Olivier Gendebien / B
DNS - Jo Bonnier / S
2. 44 Bob Holbert / USA Porsche 718 RS60 Brumos Porsche 187 2. S1.6
Roy Schechter / USA
Howard Fowler / USA
3. 8 Pete Lovely / USA Ferrari 250 TR59/60 0768TR Jack Nethercutt 186 1. S3.0
Jack Nethercutt / USA
4. 10 Ed Hugus / USA Ferrari 250 GT SWB 1785GT North American Racing Team 185 2. S3.0
Augie Pabst / USA
5. 17 George Reed / USA Ferrari 250 1741GTor1603GT RRR Motors 185 3. S3.0
Alan Connell / USA
6. 12 William Sturgis / USA Ferrari 250 GT SWB 1539GT William Sturgis 183 4. S3.0
Fritz D'Orey / BR
7. 11 George Arents / USA Ferrari 250 GT SWB 1773GT North American Racing Team 183 5. S3.0
William Kimberly / USA
8. 16 Carlo Maria Abate / I Ferrari 250 GT Calif 1459GT Scuderia Serenissima 179 1. GT3.0
Giorgio Scarlatti / I
Fabrizio Serena di Lapigio
9. 72 Dick Dungan / USA Porsche 356B Carrera Camoradi USA 177 1. GT1.6
Joe Sheppard / USA
10. 14 Robert Publicker / USA Ferrari 250 GT Calif 1699GT Robert Publicker 174 6. S3.0
George Constantine / USA
Dean McCarthy / USA
11. 80 Jan Bootz / NL Porsche 356B Carrera Count Karel de Beaufort 172 2. GT1.6
Carel Godin de Beaufort / NL
12. 63 John Bentley / USA Osca S750 769 Automobili Osca 170 1. S850
John Gordon / USA
13. 47 George Koehne / USA Osca MT4 1500 Automobili Osca USA 169 3. S1.6
Rees T. Makins / USA
14. 31 Max Goldman / USA Arnolt Bolide Bristol S. H. Arnolt Inc. 169 1. GT2.0
Ralph Durbin / USA
15. 20 Gilbert Geitner / USA Austin-Healey 3000 British Motor Co. 167 2. GT3.0
Lew Spencer / USA
16. 6 Bill Fritts / USA Chevrolet Corv 00867S104420 RRR Motors 167 1. GT5.0
Chuck Hall / USA
17. 58 Charles Vögele / CH Lola Mk.1 Climax BR6 Charles Vogele 167 1. S1.15
Peter Ashdown / GB
DNS - Rolf Roth / USA
18. 54 Fred van Beuren, Sr. / MEX Alfa Romeo Giulietta SV Frederico van Beuren 166 1. GT1.3
Javier Velasquez / MEX
Adolfo Velasquez / MEX
19. 50 Tom O'Brien / USA Alfa Romeo Giulietta SV Louis Comito 166 2. GT1.3
Don Horn / USA
20. 36 Bud Hulsey / USA A.C. Ace Bristol A.C. Cars Ltd. 166 2. GT2.0
Harry Washburn / USA
21. 34 Bob Grossman / USA A.C. Ace Bristol A.C. Cars Ltd. 166 3. GT2.0
Mike Rothschild / USA
DNS - Robert Keyes / USA
22. 33 James Johnston / USA Arnolt Bolide Bristol S. H. Arnolt Inc. 165 4. GT2.0
Bud Seaverns / USA
William Bradley / USA
23. 65 David Cunningham / USA Osca S750 768 Luigi Chinetti Motors 162 7. S850
John Fulp / USA
24. 39 Fred Hayes / CDN MGA TC British Motor Co. 160 3. GT1.6
Ed Leavens / CDN
25. 55 C. W. Evans / USA Lotus Elite Lotus Cars USA 158 3. GT1.3
Sam Weiss / USA
Jay Chamberlain / USA
26. 3 Fred Gamble / USA Chevrolet Corv 00867S102272 Camoradi USA 157 2. GT5.0
Jim Jeffords / USA
Bill Wuesthoff / USA
27. 48 William Milliken, Jr. / USA Alfa Romeo Giulietta SV Cameron Argetsinger 156 4. GT1.3
Cameron Argetsinger / USA
28. 77 Tony O'Sullivan / USA A.C. Ace Bristol Tony O'Sullivan 151 5. GT2.0
Peter Procter / GB
Jef Stevens / USA
29. 40 Jack Flaherty / USA MGA TC British Motor Co. 148 4. GT1.6
Jim Parkinson / USA
30. 51 Louis Comito / USA Alfa Romeo Giulietta SV Ross Durant Jr. 143 5. GT1.3
Ross Durant, Jr. / USA
Robert Richardson / USA
31. 52 Charles Kessinger / USA Alfa Romeo Giulietta SV Dr. Roy Martinez 143 6. GT1.3
Stephen A. McClellan, Jr.
Ken Gardner / USA
32. 4 Jim Jeffords / USA Chevrolet Corvette Camoradi USA 143 2. GT5.0
Fred Gamble / USA
33. 18 Peter Riley / GB Austin-Healey 3000 British Motor Co. 141 6. GT3.0
Jack Sears / GB
34. 26 Duncan Black / USA Daimler SP250 Charlemagne Tower 137 7. S3.0
Charlemagne Tower / USA
35. 5 Delmo Johnson / USA Chevrolet Corvette Johnson Chevrolet Co. 134 3. GT5.0
Dave Morgan / USA
36. 37 John Masterson / USA Elva Courier Climax Elva Distributors USA 131 4. S1.6
Dean Patterson / USA
Norman Babcock / USA
37. 60 Edgar M. Costley / USA Elva Mk.4 Climax Edgar M. Costley 131 2. S1.15
Pete Harrison / USA
38. 66 Ray Cuomo / USA Fiat-Abarth 750S Roosevelt Automobiles 115 S850
Paul Richards / USA
39. 32 Tom Payne / USA Arnolt Bolide Bristol S. H. Arnolt Inc. 99 GT2.0
Robert Gary / USA
40. 68 Charles Wallace / USA Elva Courier Ford Elva Distributors USA 92 S1.6
William Horton / USA
Charlie Kolb / USA
41. 61 John Sprintzel / USA Austin-Healey Sebring Sprit Donald Healey 62 S1.0
John Lumkin / USA

Edited by David Birchall, 18 September 2010 - 17:29.


#3 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 00:23

Charles Vögele and Peter Ashdown?

Vince H.

#4 David Birchall

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 01:03

I would tend to agree with Vince. My first thought when seeing the photo was -" the older guy is European the young guy is English". Here are some photos of Ashdown-scroll down:

http://www.lolaherit...ook/124/124.htm

#5 Jerry Entin

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 01:46

Vince: The Mystery drivers are no Mystery to you. You nailed it.

#6 Jerry Entin

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 13:25

Posted Image
More Mystery drivers from Sebring in 1960
Who are the people working on this Formula Junior? Who is the driver in the crew cut behind the car?


photo: Willem Oosthoek collection

Edited by Jerry Entin, 19 September 2010 - 13:30.


#7 David Birchall

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 15:44

The driver is Jim Hall, the car is an Elva Deek and the guys working on it are his pit crew! :well:

#8 Jerry Entin

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 16:16

David: Very good guess, the car is an Elva DKW. It isn't Jim Hall. You are close though.

#9 David Birchall

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 16:45

Charlie Kolb?

#10 Jerry Entin

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 17:05

David:
The #9 Elva/DKW was actually owned and raced by the youngest of the Hall brothers, Chuck Hall. He is the one with the crew cut haircut behind the car.

The others are, from the left: George Brand [Hap Sharp's mechanic], Chet Hines [Sharp's aircraft mechanic who also worked on his cars], Bill Wristen [Ronnie Hissom's mechanic] leaning into the cockpit and Foy Barrett [Jim Hall's body man] with captain's cap.

Jim Hall is hidden behind Foy Barrett and his Elva/DKW #8 can be seen on the far right. Jim Hall won the Formula Junior race while Chuck Hall dropped out, one of the 13 retirements in a 23-car field. The engines in the Elvas were a 3 cylinder, 3 carburetors, 2 stroke engine. When they ran well they were good. They were very hard to make run well.

George Brand was an engine builder and also a very good transmission guy. Chet Hines was an airplane mechanic and when ever they needed help at a race George would ask Chet to come along.

all research Willem Oosthoek
with help from Frank Lance and Gary Knutson.

Edited by Jerry Entin, 20 September 2010 - 00:14.


#11 Jerry Entin

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 17:59

Posted Image
Sebring 1960- Ooops!

What car and who is the driver?



photo: Willem Oosthoek collection

#12 David Birchall

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 18:07

Its a Healey 3000 and at a guess it is a Canadian driver?

This is easier when everybody is at Goodwoold :)

#13 Tim Murray

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 18:42

As I understand it, three Healey 3000s took part. Two of them finished the race but the third (UJB 141) driven by John Colgate and Fred Spross, crashed after 54 laps. So the driver must be either Colgate or Spross.

#14 Stephan1

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 18:52

Posted Image
Sebring 1960- Ooops!

What car and who is the driver?



photo: Willem Oosthoek collection


Hello Jerry,

thank you very much for the great pictures from the 1960 Sebring race!
I am involved in maintaining the 1960 Sebring 12 hours MGA Twin Cam with race number #39 (finished 24th). Does your photo collection have any pictures from the MG team?

Regards,
Stephan

Edited by Stephan1, 19 September 2010 - 18:52.


#15 Jerry Entin

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 21:43

Posted Image
Fred Spross on his head
I know where his sunglasses went if he is looking for them. They are picture right above the car.
The white Corvette is the car of Fred Gamble and Jim Jeffords sneaking through.

Tim:
You win the prize. John Colgate took the start in the #19 Healey 3000. After taking over around 1:40 PM, Fred Spross did a few laps, went wide near the Esses, hit a tire marker and went upside down, as the second photo indicates.

The sequence looks rather nasty, but Spross was not hurt and the car was not heavily damaged. In fact UJB141, was bought by BMC distributor Hambros after the race, went on to have a successful race career in the U.S.

photo: Willem Oosthoek collection

Edited by Jerry Entin, 19 September 2010 - 22:11.


#16 Jerry Entin

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 21:45

Posted Image
MGA's at Sebring in 1960

Stephan:

This is the only photo of the MGA team at Sebring in 1960. It does not show #39, but at least you have the sister cars, #38 and #40, in color.


photo : Willem Oosthoek collection

Edited by Jerry Entin, 19 September 2010 - 21:50.


#17 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 00:06

Hello Jerry,

thank you very much for the great pictures from the 1960 Sebring race!
I am involved in maintaining the 1960 Sebring 12 hours MGA Twin Cam with race number #39 (finished 24th). Does your photo collection have any pictures from the MG team?

Regards,
Stephan


Have you seen these? Why does the car look different in the two photos?

http://www.racingspo...0-03-26-039.jpg

http://www.barcboys....-39MGAdzWeb.jpg

Vince H.


#18 Jerry Entin

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 00:17

Vince:

Faded negatives to explain the color difference. Practice and actual race to explain the stripes on the car.


all research Willem Oosthoek

#19 Tim Murray

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 00:34

Tim:
You win the prize.

Thanks Jerry, but I reckon David deserves most of the credit for spotting that it was a Healey. :wave:

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#20 Ray Bell

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 01:36

They can have the Teams Award, can't they?

Stephan, do you have a Freeway oil pump for the Twin Cam?

#21 David Birchall

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 01:58

Thanks Jerry, but I reckon David deserves most of the credit for spotting that it was a Healey. :wave:


Having rolled a Healey it wasn't difficult!

#22 Jerry Entin

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 09:48

Ray: David and Tim seem to have an advantage on everyone else. I have a few more to put up and I may stump them yet.

#23 Stephan1

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 21:42

Stephan:

This is the only photo of the MGA team at Sebring in 1960. It does not show #39, but at least you have the sister cars, #38 and #40, in color.


photo : Willem Oosthoek collection


Hello Jerry,

thank you very much for the photo. I have not seen that before. I have a couple of black and white pit scene shots but none in color. Great!

Regards,
Stephan

#24 Stephan1

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 22:01

Have you seen these? Why does the car look different in the two photos?

http://www.racingspo...0-03-26-039.jpg

http://www.barcboys....-39MGAdzWeb.jpg

Vince H.


Hello Vince,

as already mentioned by Jerry, when the MGAs arrived from England they were still "plain" green. The white stripes were just painted on the cars right at the race meeting after the practice session to indicate not only the individual cars but in this case to some extent also reflect the drives nationality. Number 39 got two white stripes to reflect the national race colors of the Canadian drives Ed Leavens and Fred Hayes. Number 38 remained all green for the British crew of Ted Lund and Colin Escott. Number 40 got a single stripe scheme with some additional markings on the wings, driven by Americans Jim Parkinson and Jack Flaherty.

For additional information have a look at the glorious web site of our friend Dave Nicholas. He is also a previous owner of #39.
http://www.barcboys....Sebring1960.htm

Best regards,
Stephan

Edited by Stephan1, 20 September 2010 - 22:13.


#25 Stephan1

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 22:12

If anybody is interested, a picture of the #39 1960 Sebring 12 hours works MGA Twin Cam as of today.

Regards, Stephan

© S.Weinberger
Posted Image


#26 Jerry Entin

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 00:16

Posted Image
Sebring 1960 Miss Camoradi
Who is the driver admiring the latest Birdcage Maserati presented by Miss Camoradi?



photo : Willem Oosthoek collection

#27 David Birchall

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 01:13

Jay Chamberlain.


#28 Lotus11Register

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 11:21

The gentleman in the post #26 photo is Lee Lilley. Lee was the crew-chief and technical mastermind behind CAMORADI. He raced the CAMORADI cars occasionally, usually partnering Fred Gamble.

#29 David McKinney

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 11:38

Thanks Jay

I thought it looked a bit like the other Jay, but couldn't see what he'd be doing with a car that wasn't a Lotus :lol:

#30 Jerry Entin

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 14:17

Jay:
It is Leon "Lee" Lilley.

Born in 1923, Lilley raced midgets, sprint cars and late-model stock cars after WWII. He moved from Pennsylvania to Florida in 1950. In 1952 he started his Tamimia Sales Company, a speed shop at Miami's 71st Avenue, which in 1959/1960/early 1961 became Camoradi's headquarters. His VW-powered Tamsco Special was a regular on the Florida race tracks in the late 50s.

Lilley personally repaired the Temple Buell Maserati 470S that Masten Gregory overturned at Caracas in 1957. He is still going strong today.


all research Willem Oosthoek

#31 David Birchall

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 15:08

Jerry your sneaky caption: " who is the driver admiring the Birdcage Maserati..." threw me! He wasn't admiring the car was he? :)

#32 Jerry Entin

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 01:32

Posted Image
Another admirer of Miss Camoradi

David Birchall: There was another admirer of Miss Camoradi that weekend, but we won't bother asking who he was.

David McKinney: We did not want to make it too easy! And Lilley does look a bit like Jay Chamberlain.

photo: Willem Oosthoek collection

Edited by Jerry Entin, 23 September 2010 - 01:39.


#33 Michael Ferner

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 07:58

Jerry your sneaky caption: " who is the driver admiring the Birdcage Maserati..." threw me! He wasn't admiring the car was he? :)

´
I thought he asked "who is the driver admiring the bird..." :D