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If a driver wins the WDC because of team orders... (merged)


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#1 Tstag

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 19:26

How will you feel about it?

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#2 Willow Rosenberg

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 19:28

If? Its happened plenty of times already. :)

#3 dave12

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 19:28

Pissed :)


#4 Massacrator

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 19:30

I'd congratulate the driver for the good job he did getting the #1 status this season, I'd congratulate the #2 driver to help the team mate getting the WDC, and finally I'd congratulate the team for being smart enough to not make its drivers race eachother when one of them doesn't have possibilities of getting the WDC.

#5 Dunder

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 19:39

Fair play to them.

I would nonetheless still prefer my team to do it the other way and let its drivers race.

#6 Nuvol

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 19:42

fangio, one of his WDC, won because of team orders.

It happened before so you will just have to deal with it.


and no, cry baby from spain wont win this year

#7 seahawk

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 19:42

Well as this can only happen in teams I already dislike, it would change nothing.

#8 TheNewStig

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 19:57

Has there been a driver not win the WDC without any teamorders?
Brawn surely used team orders last year like McLaren befor them.Also Ferrari used team orders so Kimi could pass Massa after his last pit at Interlagos 2007.
Renault 05-06 then?no doubt.Many also insists that Ferrari used team orders some times when Schumi was there.
Mika at McLaren then? Oh yes,also Damon,Jack,Prost,Lauda and even Ayrton Senna was helped by team orders.
There has been team orders in F1 since Silverstone 1950 and it will be team orders so long F1-teams have more than one driver.
The thing now is that the teams have to make sure that it is not so obvius like Alonso/Massa in Germany so press and audience don't get upset.


#9 Fastcake

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 20:01

Depends on the circumstances. Last race then sure it will be foolish if there isn't team orders.

#10 dave12

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 20:05

Has there been a driver not win the WDC without any teamorders?
Brawn surely used team orders last year like McLaren befor them.Also Ferrari used team orders so Kimi could pass Massa after his last pit at Interlagos 2007.
Renault 05-06 then?no doubt.Many also insists that Ferrari used team orders some times when Schumi was there.
Mika at McLaren then? Oh yes,also Damon,Jack,Prost,Lauda and even Ayrton Senna was helped by team orders.
There has been team orders in F1 since Silverstone 1950 and it will be team orders so long F1-teams have more than one driver.
The thing now is that the teams have to make sure that it is not so obvius like Alonso/Massa in Germany so press and audience don't get upset.

I didnt see team orders going on at all when did this happon ?

#11 iotar

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 20:22

All three top teams used team orders this season. You can change "will you feel about " to "do you feel about it".

#12 Seanspeed

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 20:23

Then the team obviously made the right decision.

Duh! :lol:

#13 PayasYouRace

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 20:23

Has there been a driver not win the WDC without any teamorders?
Brawn surely used team orders last year like McLaren befor them.Also Ferrari used team orders so Kimi could pass Massa after his last pit at Interlagos 2007.
Renault 05-06 then?no doubt.Many also insists that Ferrari used team orders some times when Schumi was there.
Mika at McLaren then? Oh yes,also Damon,Jack,Prost,Lauda and even Ayrton Senna was helped by team orders.
There has been team orders in F1 since Silverstone 1950 and it will be team orders so long F1-teams have more than one driver.
The thing now is that the teams have to make sure that it is not so obvius like Alonso/Massa in Germany so press and audience don't get upset.


At what point in 1996 were there any team orders? That's one of the obvious no team orders WDC wins. Both drivers in the team fought for the title until the last race. There were no team orders at McLaren in '88 and '89 either, though Prost and Senna had help from their teammates in other years.

Obviously team orders are commonplace in F1, and I even think they should be allowed, but it doesn't take away from the fact that some drivers didn't have that luxury in their championship year.

#14 Nustang70

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 20:40

Has there been a driver not win the WDC without any teamorders?
Brawn surely used team orders last year like McLaren befor them.Also Ferrari used team orders so Kimi could pass Massa after his last pit at Interlagos 2007.
Renault 05-06 then?no doubt.Many also insists that Ferrari used team orders some times when Schumi was there.
Mika at McLaren then? Oh yes,also Damon,Jack,Prost,Lauda and even Ayrton Senna was helped by team orders.
There has been team orders in F1 since Silverstone 1950 and it will be team orders so long F1-teams have more than one driver.
The thing now is that the teams have to make sure that it is not so obvius like Alonso/Massa in Germany so press and audience don't get upset.


Is there anyone that denies that Ferrari employed team orders when Schumacher was there??

#15 Slyder

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 22:25

Is there anyone that denies that Ferrari employed team orders when Schumacher was there??


Perhaps the same people that think that Rubens had some sort of mechanical failure at the last corner at the last lap in Austria 2002, giving Michael the win.


Has there been a driver not win the WDC without any teamorders?
Brawn surely used team orders last year like McLaren befor them.Also Ferrari used team orders so Kimi could pass Massa after his last pit at Interlagos 2007.
Renault 05-06 then?no doubt.Many also insists that Ferrari used team orders some times when Schumi was there.
Mika at McLaren then? Oh yes,also Damon,Jack,Prost,Lauda and even Ayrton Senna was helped by team orders.
There has been team orders in F1 since Silverstone 1950 and it will be team orders so long F1-teams have more than one driver.
The thing now is that the teams have to make sure that it is not so obvius like Alonso/Massa in Germany so press and audience don't get upset.


Aside from the glaring historical errors of your post, this is utter bullshit. Just because there existed team orders in the past does not mean that there should in these times. What worked in 1957 certainly cannot work in 2010. Audiences want to see drivers race, fight for the win and the championship; they don't want to see some team hand one of their drivers the win in a silver platter and take it away from someone else who worked his ass off the entire weekend just to have their car right and good enough to win. That's taking the piss on the public and that's the worst type of cardinal sin that a sport can make to its audience. IF the other driver can't win the race or the title because he wasn't fast enough and his teammate was? Tough shit. That's life.

Which leads to the main question itself, which is I would feel rather hollow, since I would've preferred the driver actually beat the competition straight up rather than the team doing his job.

Unfortunately, some people here and in the F1 paddock live with rose tinted glasses...

#16 AlexS

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 22:39

I'll congratulate the Team. To work as a Team, to respect the culture of F1 with added bonus of telling to all Sport Correct people to go to hell...

#17 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 23:49

If Alonso wins by six points or less, I'll be exceptionally pissed off about it. 2010 has been one of the best years of racing in recent memory, but if he wins because of what happened in Germany, Ferrari will have successfully ruined the whole thing.

Fortunately, Alonso doesn't have any more engines left. I do love poetic justice.

Edited by Captain Tightpants, 18 September 2010 - 23:52.


#18 Captain Cranckcase

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 00:54

If the fia don't want team orders they should abolish 'teams' and each team should run one car only, otherwise live with it.

#19 showtime

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 01:19

People ranting about Alonso winning the WDC just in case it happens, this is amazing :rotfl:. Whoever wins the WDC it will be in part thanks to team orders in a way or another, as in most of the past seasons. Yes, Ferrari messed things up by making it so obvious while others are masters of theatrical strategy but the facts remain the same. People attending to the German GP were not "robbed" a race more than the ones attending to Interlagos 2007 for example. Massa had a lot of races to prove he had to be the chosen to fight for the WDC but he failed at it (not just because of the points). And btw whats the point on having teams with more than a driver if you can't do team strategies?

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#20 cheapracer

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 03:00

Has there been a driver not win the WDC without any teamorders?


Williams shot themselves in the foot in 1981 by not having team orders and lost the WDC because of it.


#21 Rob G

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 03:15

Williams shot themselves in the foot in 1981 by not having team orders and lost the WDC because of it.

..to Nelson Piquet, whose teammate, Hector Rebaque, never had any chance of taking points away from Piquet.

#22 Tolyngee

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 03:20

At what point in 1996 were there any team orders? That's one of the obvious no team orders WDC wins. Both drivers in the team fought for the title until the last race. There were no team orders at McLaren in '88 and '89 either, though Prost and Senna had help from their teammates in other years.


Australia 1996 - and that's even the first race of the season. Much too early for Frank to be telling JV to let Damon go ahead. Team orders.

1989 Hungary - With Prost going to Ferrari the next year, Mansell being encouraged by Ferrari to take Senna out of the lead of the race to help Prost bring the DC with him to Ferrari could be seen as team orders.

#23 gerry nassar

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 03:52

Team orders when both drivers have realistic shot at the title vs team orders when one driver has no realistic or mathematical shot are very different.

#24 cheapracer

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 04:11

..to Nelson Piquet, whose teammate, Hector Rebaque, never had any chance of taking points away from Piquet.


Which shows that Brabham with a weaker car had the better bet putting resourses into one primary driver.

Mansell and Piquet losing out to Prost for similar reasons in 1986. Rosberg's problems through the year of course left McLaren the obvious option to weigh in on Prost rather than a team policy.


#25 DILLIGAF

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 04:50

How will you feel about it?


As a spectator/F1 fan i'd feel a little disappointed if a driver won due to team orders. :cry:

But then i'm pretty certain that the WDC & his team wouldn't give a flying *&%# how i felt. :lol:

Edited by DILLIGAF, 19 September 2010 - 04:52.


#26 bl-f1

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 06:17

How will you feel about it?


Team orders have always been present in F1. It does not seem to have damaged the sport.

Beating your opponent by a single point won unfairly I am sure will do nothing to demean the victory, especially if the defeated holds a personal rivalry with the winner.

IMO it is a bit like rivalry in football. If Barcelona beat Real Madrid in added time due to a last-minute unfair penalty, that would do nothing but make victory all the sweeter for Barcelona's followers.




#27 JackTorrance

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 06:30

Perhaps the same people that think that Rubens had some sort of mechanical failure at the last corner at the last lap in Austria 2002, giving Michael the win.




Aside from the glaring historical errors of your post, this is utter bullshit. Just because there existed team orders in the past does not mean that there should in these times. What worked in 1957 certainly cannot work in 2010. Audiences want to see drivers race, fight for the win and the championship; they don't want to see some team hand one of their drivers the win in a silver platter and take it away from someone else who worked his ass off the entire weekend just to have their car right and good enough to win. That's taking the piss on the public and that's the worst type of cardinal sin that a sport can make to its audience. IF the other driver can't win the race or the title because he wasn't fast enough and his teammate was? Tough shit. That's life.

Which leads to the main question itself, which is I would feel rather hollow, since I would've preferred the driver actually beat the competition straight up rather than the team doing his job.

Unfortunately, some people here and in the F1 paddock live with rose tinted glasses...


You sound almost as silly as Eddie Jordan, who stated post Austria 2002 that 'the fans want to see racing TILL THE LAST OUNCE' wich was exactly what he forbid his drivers from doing at Spa 1998.

Edit: am watching the holy Rubens behind teammate Verstappen at the Hockenheim 1998 GP right now. Brundle and Walker openly wonder why Stewart doesnt radio Verstappen to let Rubens get by. Oh, sjips, he just did exactly that, slowed down and waved Rubens through. Nothing racing about it. Another cardinal sin to its audience, to use your words.

Edited by JackTorrance, 19 September 2010 - 06:55.


#28 Chezrome

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 07:25

I would only object (to a driver winning the WDC because of teamorders), if the LESSER driver wins the WDC because of teamorders. And that has just never happened.

No, not in 1978. Andretti that year was just better than Petterson at Lotus.
No, not in 1979. Scheckter that year was just better than Villeneuve.
No, not in 1980. Jones was just better than Reuteman.

And soforth.

And the same applies for all the WDC's of Schumacher, by the way.

EDIT: Stupid mistake.

Edited by Chezrome, 19 September 2010 - 11:52.


#29 Lights

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 07:56

Team orders when both drivers have realistic shot at the title vs team orders when one driver has no realistic or mathematical shot are very different.

This...

But then i'm pretty certain that the WDC & his team wouldn't give a flying *&%# how i felt. :lol:

.. and this!

The reward is way too big to care about consequences how the sport and it's fans feel.

#30 marcoferrari

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 08:11

I would only object (to a driver winning the WDC because of teamorders), if the LESSER driver wins the WDC because of teamorders. And that has just never happened.

No, not in 1978. Andretti that year was just better than Petterson.
No, not in 1979. Scheckter that year was just better than Petterson.
No, not in 1980. Jones was just better than Reuteman.

And soforth.

And the same applies for all the WDC's of Schumacher, by the way.



Scheckter and Peterson in Ferrari? And in 1979? You thought about Villeneuve, I guess... Jody was slower from those two, but Gilles was less reliable...

#31 morals

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 08:14

I will feel as robbed as I felt when that pitstop in Brazil 2007 stole Fernando Alonso's 3rd WDC


edit: fill != feel :blush:

Edited by morals, 19 September 2010 - 08:53.


#32 PassWind

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 08:17

Williams shot themselves in the foot in 1981 by not having team orders and lost the WDC because of it.



Lewis or Alonso take your pick 2007....

#33 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 08:27

I will fill as robbed as I felt when that pitstop in Brazil 2007 stole Fernando Alonso's 3rd WDC

But team orders would help Alonso win in this case.

#34 AlanWake

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 08:40

I will fill as robbed as I felt when that pitstop in Brazil 2007 stole Fernando Alonso's 3rd WDC


The same here :up:

#35 RedBaron

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 08:56

I assume we are pointing the finger at Ferrari mainly here...

No team orders = very high possibility of no title

Team orders = a great shot at the title giving one driver maximum points on occasion



#36 morals

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 08:57

But team orders would help Alonso win in this case.


Either I didn't feel robbed then or I will feel robbed if it happens now ;)

#37 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 09:03

I assume we are pointing the finger at Ferrari mainly here...

No team orders = very high possibility of no title

Team orders = a great shot at the title giving one driver maximum points on occasion

I'm pointing the finger at Ferrari because the use of team orders in Germany gave Alonso a shot at the title that, by rights, he shouldn't have. Because he couldn't get himself into that position on his own strengths - he needed an outside intervention. Now, I get the arguments that Formula 1 is a team sport and that team orders are an extension of that. But it is the driver who should take centre stage. Ferrari didn't issue team orders to improve their WCC position because they would have got the same amount of points if Massa had won. They did it to manipulate the WDC. To me, the person who is declared World Champion should be the driver who is the fastest, the most consistent, the best. To have the teams interfere with that only cheapens it.

#38 BullHead

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 09:15

It's the way it is.

Remember, to be in a position of being a favoured driver - it has to be earnt in the first place...

#39 postajegenye

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 09:15

If Alonso wins by six points or less, I'll be exceptionally pissed off about it. 2010 has been one of the best years of racing in recent memory, but if he wins because of what happened in Germany, Ferrari will have successfully ruined the whole thing.

Fortunately, Alonso doesn't have any more engines left. I do love poetic justice.


Alonso benefitted from 2010 Germany just as much as Räikkönen benefitted from 2007 Brazil. Not less, not more. They would have been second, but they got 1st place because Ferrari wanted them to win. Räikkönen wouldn't have won that race without that pit stop, everyone knows it, it was obvious by just looking at the gestures of the drivers and team members.

Still, Alonso gets 100 times more bashing, because this time Ferrari used their tactics in a stupid and open way. Yes, it was ugly, it was "unsporty", it was even against the rules (btw so was 2007 Brazil), but Alonso didn't gain more than Kimi did back in 2007. Alonso didn't order Ferrari to use team orders this way, he would have been just as happy with the pitstop way of team orders. If Ferrari arranged the team orders in Hockenheim by changing the orders at the pitstop, it wouldn't have created this kind of scandal. Now, the result is the same, it influences the point standings and the WDC in the same way, yet people want Alonso's head for it.

Anyway, as others have said, team orders have been part of F1 for a long long time, let it be Ferrari, McLaren, Williams, etc... Fangio won a WDC thanks to team orders more than 50 years ago, so did Räikkönen 3 years ago, it's always been present in this sport, so this year wouldn't really change anything. A team order is a team order regardless of how you arrange it, telling Massa openly to move over has the same results as a carefully planned pitstop.

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#40 Ferrari2183

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 09:22

I'm pointing the finger at Ferrari because the use of team orders in Germany gave Alonso a shot at the title that, by rights, he shouldn't have. Because he couldn't get himself into that position on his own strengths - he needed an outside intervention. Now, I get the arguments that Formula 1 is a team sport and that team orders are an extension of that. But it is the driver who should take centre stage. Ferrari didn't issue team orders to improve their WCC position because they would have got the same amount of points if Massa had won. They did it to manipulate the WDC. To me, the person who is declared World Champion should be the driver who is the fastest, the most consistent, the best. To have the teams interfere with that only cheapens it.

Smile a while and give your face a rest...
Raise your hands to the Ferrari driver thats the best.
Then shake hands with a tifoso nearby and greet him with a smile...

#41 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 09:25

Smile a while and give your face a rest...
Raise your hands to the Ferrari driver thats the best.
Then shake hands with a tifoso nearby and greet him with a smile...

I'm sorry, what? I should be happy because Ferrari win? I'm sorry, but I have a deep-seated hatred of Ferrari. It's not something you're going to get rid of with a smile. If you ask me, Formula 1 don't need Ferrari. And if Ferrari show a willingness to use team orders, Formula 1 will be better off without them.

#42 ensign14

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 09:30

fangio, one of his WDC, won because of team orders.

Sorry, that's an outright lie.

The trouble is nobody can be bothered to find out the truth because ignorant journalists and hack writers parrot out the same line over and over again that Fangio won the title through team orders. It's utter bulldink.

So let me fill you in. Italy 1956. It's the most important race in Italy and the winner is going to be Maserati or Ferrari. Huge bragging rights for the victor. Going into the race Fangio is practically champion; only team-mate Collins can stop him, and then only by winning.

Half-way through the race, Fangio comes in. He has been comfortably the fastest Ferrari driver all season. Monaco apart no Ferrari driver has been ahead of him in a race. But he has a problem at Monza. He is running 3rd in a sick car. Ferrari wants to win his home Grand Prix; Moss is leading for Maserati. Disaster. Fangio therefore gets out, Castellotti gets in to keep the car going, and Fangio waits for one of his team-mates to hand over.

Musso comes in for his pitstop. He is 2nd. Ferrari tells Musso to get out so that Fangio can take over. Musso refuses. Proud Italian doing it for the bel Paese. He gets back in and charges after Moss. A few laps from the end, he takes the lead. Then blows a tyre and retires.

Collins comes in for his pitstop. He is 3rd. Well short of what he needs for the title. He is not catching Moss; he is indeed losing ground. Collins sees Fangio in the pits. Knowing Fangio is faster, he gets out. It scuppers his highly remote Championship chances, but the Italian Grand Prix is important. Remember the title was not everything for Ferrari. Castellotti died trying to get the Modena track record from Maserati.

Fangio gets back in 3rd, goes harry flatters, nearly catches Moss. The title is his, but only as a side-effect. Enzo Ferrari hated Fangio. Too much of a driver. Enzo didn't want drivers; he wanted lightbulbs. Plug one in, burn it out, chuck it away. Castellotti...morto! E la macchina? Fangio was Fangio, not a Ferrari bitpart. Enzo's revenge was to spread this nonsense around for the faithful to lap it up.

If you want a title handed over on a plate by Ferrari, then 1964. But the title is worthless. Utterly worthless. Legendary drivers do not need titles to justify their existence. Fireball Roberts and Curtis Turner are revered in NASCAR for their achievements. Titles? Zero. Between them. Fewer than Bill Rexford and Terry Labonte. Thomas Bscher is a world sportscar champion, Bob Wollek isn't.

Get this title fixation off your minds. You're dancing to Bernie's tune.

Edited by ensign14, 19 September 2010 - 09:31.


#43 ensign14

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 09:35

Australia 1996 - and that's even the first race of the season. Much too early for Frank to be telling JV to let Damon go ahead. Team orders.

Because Villeneuve's car was leaking more oil than a BP rig. He would not have finished had he not eased up. Look how far Damon was ahead by the race end.

1989 Hungary - With Prost going to Ferrari the next year, Mansell being encouraged by Ferrari to take Senna out of the lead of the race to help Prost bring the DC with him to Ferrari could be seen as team orders.

Have you any evidence for this extremely libellous allegation?

#44 Ferrari2183

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 09:44

I'm sorry, what? I should be happy because Ferrari win? I'm sorry, but I have a deep-seated hatred of Ferrari. It's not something you're going to get rid of with a smile. If you ask me, Formula 1 don't need Ferrari. And if Ferrari show a willingness to use team orders, Formula 1 will be better off without them.

Then I sincerely hope they use it just to piss on your chips some more.

I hope other teams use it too and there is a high probability of that happening. Wonder what you will say then? Maybe all the teams can bugger off and only the morally correct can compete in Formula 1.

Seriously though, you need to relax... Captain Tightpants is an apt nickname for you.

#45 Infinityl

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 09:47

If Fernando finally wins WDC this year, i will felt exactly like Hamilton's fans felt in 2008 using team orders, or like Kimi's fans felt in 2007.
Well, i'll really felt better because Hamilton won with the best car and Kimi with 2ns better car. Alonso has been driven 3rd car.

#46 Zava

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 10:03

I will feel as robbed as I felt when that pitstop in Brazil 2007 stole Fernando Alonso's 3rd WDC


edit: fill != feel :blush:

:lol:

it was never Alonso's WDC, so it couldn't be stolen. if ferrari didn't make the tactics so Kimi can pass Massa at the 2nd stop, then:
1, they would've been the most stupid team in F1 history
2, Lewis would've won the 07 WDC, not Alonso.

edit: also, talking about how team orders effect Alonso bad... heh... :)

Edited by Zava, 19 September 2010 - 10:05.


#47 ensign14

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 10:03

If Fernando finally wins WDC this year, i will felt exactly like Hamilton's fans felt in 2008 using team orders, or like Kimi's fans felt in 2007.
Well, i'll really felt better because Hamilton won with the best car and Kimi with 2ns better car. Alonso has been driven 3rd car.

Hamilton won in 2008 because of team orders? With the best car?

Are you seriously suggesting that Massa would have beaten Hamilton with the McLaren? To explain that, you have to explain how Hamilton and Alonso were on a par the year before, yet Alonso generally beats Massa in identical equipment like a red-headed stepchild. Yet for some mysterious reason Hamilton's talent vanished in 2008 to the extent that has now vanished, driving a car that was so good that Kovalainen won every other race.

#48 Tombstone

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 10:10

Australia 1996 - and that's even the first race of the season. Much too early for Frank to be telling JV to let Damon go ahead. Team orders.


Nice bit of historical revisionism there. Well done.


#49 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 10:11

I hope other teams use it too and there is a high probability of that happening. Wonder what you will say then? Maybe all the teams can bugger off and only the morally correct can compete in Formula 1.

I don't object to it when one driver is no longer a mathematical possibility for the championship. Any time before then becomes a problem. If all the teams start using it, then Formula 1 won't be as interesting to me. But Ferrari's use of it - combined with all the other shit they've done (like attacking the new teams for being slow; if they're so concerned that Alonso can't lap someone six seconds off the pace, maybe they have some bigger issues to deal with, like why Alonso can't pass someone six seconds slower than he is) - just betrays their arrogance.

And I'm willing to bet that if it had been any other team using orders in Germany, you'd be upset about it. But because Ferrari did it, it's perfectly acceptable. Tell me, if Luca di Montezemolo told Massa to crash at Singapore to benefit Alonso, would you think it okay?

#50 gerry nassar

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 10:21

Alonso benefitted from 2010 Germany just as much as Räikkönen benefitted from 2007 Brazil. Not less, not more. They would have been second, but they got 1st place because Ferrari wanted them to win. Räikkönen wouldn't have won that race without that pit stop, everyone knows it, it was obvious by just looking at the gestures of the drivers and team members.

Still, Alonso gets 100 times more bashing, because this time Ferrari used their tactics in a stupid and open way. Yes, it was ugly, it was "unsporty", it was even against the rules (btw so was 2007 Brazil), but Alonso didn't gain more than Kimi did back in 2007. Alonso didn't order Ferrari to use team orders this way, he would have been just as happy with the pitstop way of team orders. If Ferrari arranged the team orders in Hockenheim by changing the orders at the pitstop, it wouldn't have created this kind of scandal. Now, the result is the same, it influences the point standings and the WDC in the same way, yet people want Alonso's head for it.

Anyway, as others have said, team orders have been part of F1 for a long long time, let it be Ferrari, McLaren, Williams, etc... Fangio won a WDC thanks to team orders more than 50 years ago, so did Räikkönen 3 years ago, it's always been present in this sport, so this year wouldn't really change anything. A team order is a team order regardless of how you arrange it, telling Massa openly to move over has the same results as a carefully planned pitstop.


Difference is that in Germany 2010, Massa had a mathematical chance of the championship. In Brazil 2007 he did not. And as it was the last race of the championship, the Ferraris werent racing hard against each other. Raikkonen was also very quick, in Q2 he was fastest but in Q3 was baulked by Hamilton. In the end, whether it was team orders or not, nobody complained and Massa and his side of the garage were certainly not put out of place as they were in Germany this year.