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Senna and Klien Scorecard


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#1 hotstickyslick

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 12:45

Thought this needed a thread. Bruno will be under pressure, he has to beat Klien to at least have a chance of being in F1 next year.

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#2 race addicted

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 13:23

Klien was half a second faster in FP3, when both gunned it doing a Q-sim. Very good I'd say, as he's only driven 40 laps with this car.
It's bad news for Senna though, and would be shameful if this happened again in qualifying.

#3 RedBaron

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 14:28

Very very very very very worrying time for $enna after being utterly trounced by Klien in Q1. The gap when it mattered was double and then some what it was in qualifying!

Edited by RedBaron, 25 September 2010 - 14:29.


#4 Onyemaechi

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 15:17

DAMN!!!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
I mean... Senna was utterly owned, destroyed, obliterated and also annihilated by Christian Klien.
Or as Chandoch would say MEGA. :wave:
After this, I just caint understand how they would put Chandoch or even Yamamoto back in the car, and not offering Klien a contract for next year.

Edited by Onyemaechi, 25 September 2010 - 15:20.


#5 Umpire

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 15:19

I guess it's fair to say Senna has no place on this grid, the gap is just MASSIVE, even with that crappy car.

#6 ApexTomi

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 15:24

surely Senna had some technical problems with his car!?

#7 rm111

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 15:32

I guess it's fair to say Senna has no place on this grid, the gap is just MASSIVE, even with that crappy car.

+1 :up:

#8 race addicted

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 15:42

....at HRT the officials are wondering if they've really had a car this quick - if you see what I mean - all year.....

Great job from Klien!

#9 primer

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 15:44

If Senna did not have a problem with the car, then it is indeed poor result from him. Well done to Klein, he seems to be far better than Senna, Chandhok and Yamamoto. Hope he gets a chance at a better team next season.

#10 MaxisOne

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 15:54

DAMN!!!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
I mean... Senna was utterly owned, destroyed, obliterated and also annihilated by Christian Klien.
Or as Chandoch would say MEGA. :wave:
After this, I just caint understand how they would put Chandoch or even Yamamoto back in the car, and not offering Klien a contract for next year.


ROFLMAO !! :rotfl:

#11 RedBaron

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 15:56

Can we close this topic? It's done.

We need a new one Klien vs (Insert name here)

#12 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 15:56

Very dissapointing from Senna. He is not like his uncle, is he?

#13 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 15:58

The embarassing thing is....it's Christian Klien.

#14 Lights

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 15:59

Let's at least give Senna a chance in the race...

Although Klien impressed nonetheless.

#15 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 16:00

The embarassing thing is....it's Christian Klien.

Klien is a good driver, he is better than many others in F1 currently (Liuzzi, Di Grassi, Alguersari, schumacher)

#16 Bloggsworth

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 16:00

surely Senna had some technical problems with his car!?


He did - intermitent problems with his proprioceptors.

#17 midgrid

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 16:01

It looked like Senna felt under pressure, and was losing time by over-driving, but it's far too harsh to write him off after one qualifying session.

#18 Onyemaechi

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 16:02

....at HRT the officials are wondering if they've really had a car this quick - if you see what I mean - all year.....

Great job from Klien!


If I was an HRT official, I would be pissed of for not getting the value for my money from those drivers. All year complaining how rubbish that car is, then Christian Klien jumps in and even tries taking the battle to Jarno Trulli proving the car is bad, but a good driver can squeeze something out of the car. Senna! I want my money back :smoking:

Edited by Onyemaechi, 25 September 2010 - 16:03.


#19 RedBaron

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 16:12

Klien is a good driver, he is better than many others in F1 currently (Liuzzi, Di Grassi, Alguersari, schumacher)


Haha he has beaten Senna... which was superb.

I wouldn't say he is better than those 4. I suspect one of those names was added in there just for spice ;)

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#20 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 16:14

Haha he has beaten Senna... which was superb.

I wouldn't say he is better than those 4. I suspect one of those names was added in there just for spice ;)

I have always had a healthy respect for klien. I dont think he is a great driver, but he is plenty good to deserve a place in F1. But you are right, I wasnt sure whether to add Alguersari or not :lol:

#21 RedBaron

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 16:22

I have always had a healthy respect for klien. I dont think he is a great driver, but he is plenty good to deserve a place in F1. But you are right, I wasnt sure whether to add Alguersari or not :lol:



Ha, you're daft.

#22 Francesc

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 16:30

I agree, Klien is quite good, but what we have seen today, shows that not only Senna is useless, Chandock is too, and Yamamoto, he would be slower than his grandmother.

Edited by Francesc, 25 September 2010 - 16:30.


#23 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 16:30

Wow

Good thing some of you guys aren't team principles.

Senna did bad in a shit car.

Klien did better in a shit car.

The deficit to the next best car - the Virgin - has now gone from 2.5 seconds to 1.5 seconds.

Some of you are acting as though Klien stuck it on pole and would have been a contender for the WDC.

Let's not forget that Klien is an EXPERIENCED test driver and has far more mileage and set up knowledge than Senna and Yamamoto combined. Perhaps that explains the gap?

#24 AlanWake

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 16:34

I am really impressed with Klien. He was great today, no doubt. :up: :up: :up:


#25 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 16:35

Most of his experience wouldn't be applicable, coming in the grooved tires/old wings era. And would be more than matched by Senna's familiarity in the car.

#26 hotstickyslick

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 16:36

Wow

Good thing some of you guys aren't team principles.

Senna did bad in a shit car.

Klien did better in a shit car.

The deficit to the next best car - the Virgin - has now gone from 2.5 seconds to 1.5 seconds.

Some of you are acting as though Klien stuck it on pole and would have been a contender for the WDC.

Let's not forget that Klien is an EXPERIENCED test driver and has far more mileage and set up knowledge than Senna and Yamamoto combined. Perhaps that explains the gap?

Point is that they are still in the same car. Don't pretend that Bruno hasn't got oodles more experience with the car AND tyres, and the last time Klien had a full race seat was 2006 where he got beaten by Coulthard in a completely different car that used grooved tyres. For Senna this is a devestating result, but it's not the end. He has to at the very least match Klien for any team to consider him for a drive next year.

Edited by hotstickyslick, 25 September 2010 - 16:38.


#27 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 16:48

Point is that they are still in the same car. Don't pretend that Bruno hasn't got oodles more experience with the car AND tyres, and the last time Klien had a full race seat was 2006 where he got beaten by Coulthard in a completely different car that used grooved tyres. For Senna this is a devestating result, but it's not the end. He has to at the very least match Klien for any team to consider him for a drive next year.


I'm not pretending anything, I'm just looking at the backgrounds of the two drivers.


BTW: Wasn't Klien a BMW test driver last year?

#28 Dunder

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 16:50

Wow

Good thing some of you guys aren't team principles.

Senna did bad in a shit car.

Klien did better in a shit car.

The deficit to the next best car - the Virgin - has now gone from 2.5 seconds to 1.5 seconds.

Some of you are acting as though Klien stuck it on pole and would have been a contender for the WDC.

Let's not forget that Klien is an EXPERIENCED test driver and has far more mileage and set up knowledge than Senna and Yamamoto combined. Perhaps that explains the gap?


There is absolutely no excusing a 1 second deficit to a driver who has little experience in the current generation of cars.
Look at the relative performance today of Kobayashi and Heidfeld.




#29 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 16:53

With Heidfeld and Kobayashi you'd assume Heidfeld had a problem or made a mistake. His past form, and his speed just this weekend, bear that out.

#30 Panktej

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 16:54

With Heidfeld and Kobayashi you'd assume Heidfeld had a problem or made a mistake. His past form, and his speed just this weekend, bear that out.



Nick Heidfeld was ahead of Kamui Kobayashi in Q1....he made a mistake on his hotlap in Q2 :)

#31 Juan Kerr

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 16:57

Ahhh here we go again, I don't suppose for one minute the second difference is real, Senna's 'bad' today was the spin which stopped him from doing his faster second run, he did carry on for another lap but I don't suppose for one minute the car was optimum for that lap after spinning off previously. Senna has done very well this year but I haven't really thought of that even as very significant, when you're driving a car that is walking around under braking and acceleration and which required the inputs of a rally driver half the time its not truly representative of an F1 drivers skills. That Hispania just fell off the road because it wanted too, Bruno wasn't even pushing the limits it just fell off effortlessly. Its a pathetic car. Well done to Klien for rallying it around so well.
Kovalainen for example is great with a knife edge car or a car without downforce but he's nothing special in a car like the McLaren last year.

#32 Dunder

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 16:59

With Heidfeld and Kobayashi you'd assume Heidfeld had a problem or made a mistake. His past form, and his speed just this weekend, bear that out.


I don't doubt that. My point was that Heidfeld was never going to be a second ahead of Koba.


#33 hotstickyslick

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 17:04

I'm not pretending anything, I'm just looking at the backgrounds of the two drivers.


BTW: Wasn't Klien a BMW test driver last year?

But it is quite irrelevant. Senna should not have been outqualified.


He was and he did test at Bahrain, but that shouldn't account to much anyway.

#34 Gene and Tonic

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 17:26

Was a very revealing qualifying, and I hope Klien gets more races in the car - he clearly has some speed, and it could do his chances of a race seat next year no harm at all.

#35 Longtimefan

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 18:22

Klien did well, Senna's career is effectively over as from now.. although most of us sadly expected this from the start of the season.

I still think Chandhok deserves a seat though.


#36 Mandzipop

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 18:26

Sounds like he had massive oversteer. Dunno how much that would have affected it though. He was doing ok yesterday.

#37 Onyemaechi

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 18:49

Some guys here are missing the point.

1. There is no shame being beaten by Klien. But by 1.2 seconds??? :rolleyes: :confused:

2. Senna`s career is not over. However: If Klien continues beating Senna with 1 Second or 6/10 per lap in Suzuka, Brasil and the race after that. It will be hard for Senna :wave:

#38 William Hunt

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 18:51

People are reading too much in to this. Sure Klien performed strongly, as I expted from him because he's a very fast driver. But Senna made a spin on a qualifying attempt, we have no idea what his lap time would have been had he driven a clean lap. It's also possible that Senna was hindered by faster cars passing him on his qualifying laps, we don't know that. But we can't just judge and compare them on one qualifying session. After three sessions it would be a different matter.

#39 RedBaron

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 19:00

People are reading too much in to this. Sure Klien performed strongly, as I expted from him because he's a very fast driver. But Senna made a spin on a qualifying attempt, we have no idea what his lap time would have been had he driven a clean lap. It's also possible that Senna was hindered by faster cars passing him on his qualifying laps, we don't know that. But we can't just judge and compare them on one qualifying session. After three sessions it would be a different matter.



Hinder by other cars all weekend? And as for that spin... he was already well behind Klien at that point and he spun trying simply to find the time to his team-mate. He didn't fall behind his team-mate because of the spin, he span because he was so much slower trying to gain time.

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#40 Mandzipop

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 19:07

Hinder by other cars all weekend? And as for that spin... he was already well behind Klien at that point and he spun trying simply to find the time to his team-mate. He didn't fall behind his team-mate because of the spin, he span because he was so much slower trying to gain time.


He was beaten today by Klien, not yesterday. He had massive oversteer in quali. That might have had something to do with the spin.

#41 Flyhigh

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 19:14

wow, some massive Sennna bashing bandwagon here. Is like some people were just waiting for him to be out perform, to come out swinging.


Senna doesn`t deserve this Sure there is no basis to consider him a good F1 driver yet, but from what we seen he has well beat the team mates that raced with him until now, many times by a big margin. Klien is challenging him and out perfomermed him well here, but this is far from solid evidence to see how they will fare on a regular basis yet.

#42 Ferrim

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 19:17

Pole time 1:45
Klien's time 1:52

What's the miracle from Klien's part?

This has just been an awful qualifying by Senna. You could have had a point if Klien had mixed with the Lotus and the Virgins.

#43 RedBaron

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 19:31

Pole time 1:45
Klien's time 1:52

What's the miracle from Klien's part?


That is the dumbest thing I've read.

Some people make good points; Flyhigh, Mandzipop and others... but come on, this one one time Senna should have been well on top, if he had issues then be half a second off the pace but nearly 1 and a half seconds is just a phenomenal gap. Especially as Klien is well out of practice.

It just shouldn't have happened, I think lots of reactions - mine included are partly drummed up by shock.

Heidfeld has 10x more experience than Klien and he couldn't match Kobayashi and he's been racing more recently in a Formula 1 car (Pirelli), he is also racing a car more capable than the HRT as well as having raced all last season.

#44 topical

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 19:47

Thought this needed a thread. Bruno will be under pressure, he has to beat Klien to at least have a chance of being in F1 next year.


Gotta feel sorry for Senna. That sort of defeat against a guy who's first time out in a car is just humiliating. And it's not Alonso or Hamilton, but Klien, for god's sake, a journeyman if ever there was one...

#45 Clatter

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 19:54

It looked like Senna felt under pressure, and was losing time by over-driving, but it's far too harsh to write him off after one qualifying session.


His Q mirrored his performance all weekend. I won't be at all surprised to see him in the wall tomorrow.


#46 KateLM

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 20:39

I always felt Klien got slightly short changed with his F1 experience before. Red Bull got him the Jaguar seat when he clearly didn't have enough experience and was probably too young. He improved quite a lot at the Red Bull team and his speed itself against DC was respectable, but he had more bad luck. His mid season dumping in 2006 was pretty harsh. I don't think he is a future WDC, but I always thought he was more talented than his results showed.

There is simply no excuse for Senna being that far behind Klien when the latter hasn't taken part in a qualifying session for years (and is good but not spectacular). To be honest, I've never been fully convinced by Senna. Chandhok never that far off in terms of speed in their time at HRT, and while he is a nice bloke, he never really looked like F1 material before this year.

Even though I find Senna unconvincing I have to give Klien props, I felt he did a more respectable job than Heidfeld did today, and we all know that Nick is a strong driver.

Edited by KateLM, 25 September 2010 - 20:42.


#47 Buttoneer

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 20:57

HRT has two rookies at the start of the season - it was the blind leading the blind as far as drivers were concerned and I don't think its fair to bash any of the past pilots for that reason. Klien at least has enough experience to know how to set the car up, and to give some pointers to the hew guys if he feels willing. I doubt he's willing. This result has raised his stock immensely.

#48 EVO2

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 22:11

Just being related to Ayrton Senna does not make you a racing driver, let along one good enough for F1

I guess HRT realised this for the frst time today.





#49 Gene and Tonic

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 22:21

Lets not go overboard.

"BSenna

Tough day at the office. Big snap oversteer, but we will get it sorted for tomorrow"

From Twitter - problems with his setup? Either way, clearly Klien had him comfortably in his pocket, but Senna is not a joke of a driver by any means, lets see what their respective paces are in the race.

#50 pinkypants

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 22:29

Hopefully a better setup tomorrow will allow Senna to have a positive race!