62 replies to this topic

[Eric Dunsdon]

You are quite correct Eric,nothing like Nino, looks more like a young Cardew Robinson to me

[Eric Dunsdon]

Hot Verdomme!!

http://www.italiaspe.../cikk.php?id=34

Take a look Dutchy

So now you know what Giuseppe Farina looked like. Nothing like Cardew The Cad is he?.

[Rocky2]

Can anyone help with the identity of these 2 drivers some think the oriental driver is Bira others don't
the pic was almost certainly taken in Holland circa 1951

The first driver is Hans van Dieten. He drove his red Jaguar XK120 with starting number 42 to the second place in the race. The winner - Dr Oei Tjong Bo - is pictured below in his newly built light blue Jaguar XK120, which I believe was later sold to Teddy Yip. The event, Nationales Sportwagenrennen, took place on 10th June, 1951 at Zandvoort.

Here is a later period photo of Hans van Dieten:

[David McKinney]

See posts 5 and 42

[Rocky2]

So maybe the mistake is in someone presuming J L van Dieten was Joky, and not her father, brother or husband?

See posts 5 and 42

Yeah, I see, David. J & L stand for Johannes Leonardus. Thus Hans' full name was Johannes Leonardus van Dieten

[wenoopy]

Now that we have clearly established that J L van Dieten is the short-earlobed Farina lookalike, can someone produce a photo of Dr Oei Tjeng Bo to see how much his appearance differs from that of Bira. On-line I can find a photo of a half-brother, Oei Tjeng Tway, but not the Jaguar driver himself.

[Michael Ferner]

I don't think we need to drag this on. My immediate reaction when I saw the pictures and the first suggestions was: certainly not Farina or Villoresi, and not Bira! Now that we've found an explanation, I think it's all clear.

Edited by Michael Ferner, 04 October 2010 - 13:36.

[arttidesco]

See posts 5 and 42

I think David wins the cuddly toy for knowing JL Van Dieten :-)

[terry mcgrath]

I would like to thank all those who provided info and I must admit the final answer surprised even me as the Dr Oei Tjong Bo XK120 660726 is a car well known to me and as noted it did finish up not to long afterwards in Hong Kong where it went on to have a further racing career in the hands of Dr Oei Tjong Bo and later Teddy Yip.
This racing history will be covered in volume 2 of our series of XK books the first being "The Jaguar XK120 in the Southern Hemisphere"
I have I hoped attached a page from this book with the history as we had it up to the answers we got here.
terry
PS I would love to get other and better pics of XK's racing and any details of XK's and jaguars racing in Holland and for that matter anywhere in Europe

[raceannouncer2003]

This from Johannes van Dieten (the son) who lives right here in Victoria, British Columbia, Canada:

"...Thanks for getting hold of me and we certainly will have to get together. I have some great pictures that I will have to show you. That is indeed my father in those pictures... If you had anymore inquiries about our family racing history I maybe able to fill in the gaps. Let me know...Yes my mom is still alive but in a deteriorating condition. I am hoping to fill in the gaps of racing history for you. My uncle also a racer is still alive and I am very close to him. I am able to provide you with as many facts as you want but it be best for me to get a list of questions and I will get them answered..."

I hope to meet with Johannes on Tuesday.

Vince H.

[raceannouncer2003]

This from Johannes van Dieten (the son) who lives right here in Victoria, British Columbia, Canada:

"...Thanks for getting hold of me and we certainly will have to get together. I have some great pictures that I will have to show you. That is indeed my father in those pictures... If you had anymore inquiries about our family racing history I maybe able to fill in the gaps. Let me know...Yes my mom is still alive but in a deteriorating condition. I am hoping to fill in the gaps of racing history for you. My uncle also a racer is still alive and I am very close to him. I am able to provide you with as many facts as you want but it be best for me to get a list of questions and I will get them answered..."

I hope to meet with Johannes on Tuesday.

Vince H.

I met with Johannes in December. I have his pictures.



I am trying to sort out copyright, though Johannes himself does not have a problem with the photos being copied.

The vast majority of the photos are copyright John Schaepman (Den Haag). I emailed GP Assen, who have some of Schaepman's motorcycle photos on the internet. Here is their reply:

"...Thank you for your email.
Regarding your question on photos taken by John Schaepman, we suggest you to take contact with him or his family to find out if they are still copyrighted. Unfortunately we can not help you to answer the question.

We hope to have informed you adequately on this. If you have further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Kind regards,

Dominique Weijnen
GPAssen.com"

Besides Schaepman's, some of the other photos are copyright the following:

Articapress - G. Pennarts - S. Keesman (Haarlem)
Anpfoto (Amsterdam)
Fotobureau Stokvis (Gravehage)

Could some of you folks in Holland try to find out if Schaepman or any of the other copyright holders are alive or exist? If not, who holds the current copyright for these photos...family? others?

Thanks!

Vince H.

[Arjan de Roos]

Checking. Please wait as not all pick up the phone ;-) There are about 34 private Schaepman's listed in the phone directory.

Artica was a Dutch photo agency that took on assignments. No longer active it seems. But there are some Pennarts photo agencies.

A.N.P. (Algemeen Nederlands Persbureau) is Holland's main press agency. Still in full swing and behind many news media for ages. Would be easy to contact them.

Fotobureau Stokvis (Photo Agency): Mr. Dick Stokvis sold out in 1973. His company was run by others until 1999 and then sold to the The Hague city archives. However all negatives dating before 1972 have been lost.

[raceannouncer2003]

Checking. Please wait as not all pick up the phone ;-) There are about 34 private Schaepman's listed in the phone directory.

Artica was a Dutch photo agency that took on assignments. No longer active it seems. But there are some Pennarts photo agencies.

A.N.P. (Algemeen Nederlands Persbureau) is Holland's main press agency. Still in full swing and behind many news media for ages. Would be easy to contact them.

Fotobureau Stokvis (Photo Agency): Mr. Dick Stokvis sold out in 1973. His company was run by others until 1999 and then sold to the The Hague city archives. However all negatives dating before 1972 have been lost.

Thank you very much indeed for your help and information. I will certainly try to contact people about the last three.

Vince H.