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Best rookie(s) so far in 2010 season


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Poll: Best rookie(s) so far in 2010 season (217 member(s) have cast votes)

Select :)

  1. Bruno Senna (4 votes [1.48%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.48%

  2. Lucas Di Grassi (10 votes [3.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.69%

  3. Karun Chandhok (16 votes [5.90%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.90%

  4. Pedro de la Rosa (7 votes [2.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.58%

  5. Nico Hulkenberg (66 votes [24.35%])

    Percentage of vote: 24.35%

  6. Vitaly Petrov (20 votes [7.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.38%

  7. Kamui Kobayashi (113 votes [41.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 41.70%

  8. Michael Schumacher (10 votes [3.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.69%

  9. Jaime Alguersuari (added after 63 votes) (21 votes [7.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.75%

  10. Christian Klien (added after 170 votes) (4 votes [1.48%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.48%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 alecc

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 13:03

There are so many polls about the best/fastest and so on driver currently on the grid, but I'm pretty curious how the rookies are rated among fans.
And I'm curious how the fans see the pace of the rookies in comparison to the "comback rookies", so I added Michael Schumacher and Pedro de la Rosa to this poll :wave:
Multiple choice for people that rate some drivers "eqal best" so that they can choose more than one.
:)

Edited by alecc, 02 October 2010 - 14:58.


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#2 Don_Humpador

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 13:10

They've all made mistakes.

Except, perhaps, for Lucas di Grassi. I can't remember him slamming the car into a wall or anything stupid like that. There have been times when he's been a poor backmarker (Singapore was evidence) but overall he's not been too bad. I haven't looked at his comparisons with Glock though so he's probably way off Glock's times. Perhaps he isn't pushing hard enough.

I'm going for Kobayashi - has had worse equipment than Petrov or Hulkenberg and has done a good job there at Sauber. He's made quite a few errors but at the start of the season he was very unlucky in terms of reliability. Without those problems he'd have another 4-5 points by now. Has his 2011 contract as well now, so hopefully Sauber can see past the mistakes and trust him to develop well. I hope so.

#3 mtknot

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 13:12

Well before the poll goes in, I'd say it'd definately have to be kamui-kun! This is if you compare performance relative to team mates obviously, as petrov and hulkenberg whom are in better cars would obviously score more points.

The one who's surprised me most would be Hulkenberg, I thought that he was a cool headed racer, but that facade has worn off completely. Hes not only aggressive on track, but in character.

Petrov is definately not that slow of a driver, though his mental capacity isn't quite developed yet.

Schumacher... well, he has never had a perpeptually understeering and glued car before, but nonetheless, slightly dissapointing.

De la rosa, about average pace.

#4 Dunder

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 14:01

Kobayashi has been pretty good but I think, based on performance relative to PdlR, we have a fairly good indication that his ultimate potential is not what it appeared on his debut last season.

Hulkenburg has started to come on strong after a tough start to the season. I think we could see a big step up next year.

Petrov has been OK but is being outclassed by Kubica. He is, on average, 6 tenths his team mate in quali and that is just too much.

Di Grassi has been somewhat anonymous and is also being totally outgunned by Glock.

It is tough to judge the HRT guys but Klien stepping into the car and outperforming Senna is worrying.


On balance I would probably just give it to Kobayashi but my impression is that the Hulk will go on to do more in future.

Edited by Dunder, 01 October 2010 - 14:16.


#5 rabbitleader

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 14:04

Schumacher...I suppose strictly he is a rookie again. :rotfl:

#6 alecc

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 14:10

It is tough to judge the HRT guys but Klien stepping into the car and outperforming Senna is worrying.


Oh, I forgot Poland,eee I mean Klien ;) He was only for one race in place for Yamamoto or will he drive to the end of this season? Don't know if I should add him to this poll...

#7 highdownforce

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 14:10

Hulk, for sure.

Edit:

Oh, I forgot Poland,eee I mean Klien ;) He was only for one race in place for Yamamoto or will he drive to the end of this season? Don't know if I should add him to this poll...

Yamamoto will drive in Japan, but after that I'm not sure about it.

Edited by highdownforce, 01 October 2010 - 14:11.


#8 F1_conman

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 14:33

Oh, I forgot Poland,eee I mean Klien ;) He was only for one race in place for Yamamoto or will he drive to the end of this season? Don't know if I should add him to this poll...


I wouldn't consider Klien a rookie at all due to his experience with RB. I think he drove in one team with DC, right?

#9 patgaw

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 14:38

if we consider de la rosa and schumacher then we should consider Klien as well.
And my vote would go to him.

#10 Hezz

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 14:43

After one race :rotfl:
Koba for me with no doubt

#11 iotar

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 15:10

They've all made mistakes.

Except, perhaps, for Lucas di Grassi. I can't remember him slamming the car into a wall or anything stupid like that. There have been times when he's been a poor backmarker (Singapore was evidence) but overall he's not been too bad. I haven't looked at his comparisons with Glock though so he's probably way off Glock's times. Perhaps he isn't pushing hard enough.

Glock gets all the updates first.

#12 iotar

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 15:13

if we consider de la rosa and schumacher then we should consider Klien as well.
And my vote would go to him.

Where is obligatory in recent polls Raikkonen (after half a season of rallying considered a semi rookie) option. I'd vote for him.

#13 ARENA

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 15:23

Voted Hulkenberg.
Yeah, he is losing to Barrichello, but remember that Rubens last year matched Jenson who is now matching Lewis.

Kamui wasn't much faster than DeLaRosa.

#14 patgaw

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 15:42

After one race :rotfl:


Yes, he had good weekend while rest of "rookies" are quite poor.



Where is obligatory in recent polls Raikkonen (after half a season of rallying considered a semi rookie) option. I'd vote for him.


I'm happy for you. :wave:

#15 Cenotaph

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 15:46

HRT/Virgin drivers are impossible to judge, imo.

So its between Kobayashi and Hulk

#16 Jimisgod

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 15:54

Koba has been fast, talented but fairly scrappy. Of course it is far easier to get ahead when all you have to correct is the latter and not find the former.

#17 race addicted

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 15:57

Voted Hulkenberg.
Yeah, he is losing to Barrichello, but remember that Rubens last year matched Jenson who is now matching Lewis.

Kamui wasn't much faster than DeLaRosa.


Hülkenberg has been doing very well the last handful of races, but Barrichello wasn't matching Button last year, and Button isn't matching Hamilton. There's a gap between them and it was roughly the saem with Barrichello and Button.
Having said that, Hülkenberg has probably got the fastest team-mate out of all the rookies, so I can understand your choice, no problem. Glock is very fast in my eyes (appearing not much slower, if at all, than Trulli) but Di Grassi has been too far off his pace.
Kobayashi has been a tad quicker than de la Rosa, who is a safe pair of hands but probably not as quick as Barrichello or Glock.
He's been able to beat his team-mate though, so I vote for Kobayashi.
...even if he's made quite a few mistakes.

#18 apoka

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 16:00

Difficult decision.

Bruno Senna - Didn't impress me so far, although I didn't make accurate comparisons. Klien looked faster in his comeback race.
Lucas Di Grassi - Often much slower than Glock, particularly in qualy.
Karun Chandhok - Similar to Senna.
Pedro de la Rosa - Didn't look that bad against Kobayashi, but sometimes fell behind in qualy.
Nico Hulkenberg - Had a bad start into the season. He is now more or less matching Rubens, who is a pretty good yardstick.
Vitaly Petrov - A few good appearances lately, but often just too far away from Kubica.
Kamui Kobayashi - Interesting racer and good performance. Not that much faster than De La Rosa who is often considered a journeyman.
Michael Schumacher - He has an awful year, but within the rookie list, he is still good.

Gave my vote to the Hulk, Kobayashi and Schumacher. A few more races and the Hulk could be on top.


#19 marcoferrari

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 16:09

Why are Schumacher and De La Rosa as rookies there and why isn t Alguersuari mentioned in the poll? Half of this year s track was absolutely new for him... And, if excluding him, than also Kobayashi, who drove two grand prix last year, if I am not mistaken...

Edited by marcoferrari, 01 October 2010 - 16:10.


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#20 alecc

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 16:14

Why are Schumacher and De La Rosa as rookies there and why isn t Alguersuari mentioned in the poll? Half of this year s track was absolutely new for him... And, if excluding him, than also Kobayashi, who drove two grand prix last year, if I am not mistaken...


For me Schumacher and De La Rosa are "comeback rookies", they haven't driven this type of cars and this particular type of tyres earlier.

About Jaime - good point, I added him, hope it's not too late ;)

#21 Cenotaph

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 16:16

well, i wouldnt put alguersuari in, but sakon should definitely be here if schumi and pedro are. and you know there's always someone who would vote for him :D

#22 King Six

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 16:16

Why are Schumacher and De La Rosa as rookies there and why isn t Alguersuari mentioned in the poll? Half of this year s track was absolutely new for him... And, if excluding him, than also Kobayashi, who drove two grand prix last year, if I am not mistaken...

Yeah there's no real logic in the list. but I wouldn't have voted for Jaime or Schumacher anyway....I don't think my mind even registered Schumacher as a rookie despite seeing it on the list

I choose Kamui 'Krazy' Kobayashi, he was disappointing at the beginning of the season and wasn't living upto his name, but I think Sauber-Ferrari were just getting used to the car that BMW-Sauber left behind for this season. He's improved, still makes mistakes but he has a go, what he did in Valencia was quality.

I'd love to see loads of battles between him and Schumacher, because they're easily the two biggest nutters on the grid. :up:

#23 KavB

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 16:38

Kobayashi definitely. Williams have recently been competing with Renault and Mercedes on and off, so I think it is safe to assume that Hulkenberg has a faster car than Kobayashi. Also the Sauber was terribly unreliable at the start of the season so the Williams is definitely a better car overall. Despite this, Kobayashi is the highest place rookie in the standings.

Hulkenberg hasn't been too bad, he's performing as you would expect from a rookie. He's tallied a decent amount of points despite him being outpaced quite badly by Rubens. He's only disappointing because we expected him to enter the sport Hamilton-style. I guess his junior formulae has worked well for him and against him. It raised peoples expectations, but it reminds people that he has a lot of potential.

I forget Di Grassi is in F1 sometimes, which probably isn't a good sign. Senna and Chandhok need to join a better team with pre-season testing before we can really judge them. Klien easily outpaced Senna which doesn't look good for both Bruno and Karun.

#24 marcoferrari

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 16:57

Yeah there's no real logic in the list. but I wouldn't have voted for Jaime or Schumacher anyway....I don't think my mind even registered Schumacher as a rookie despite seeing it on the list

I choose Kamui 'Krazy' Kobayashi, he was disappointing at the beginning of the season and wasn't living upto his name, but I think Sauber-Ferrari were just getting used to the car that BMW-Sauber left behind for this season. He's improved, still makes mistakes but he has a go, what he did in Valencia was quality.

I'd love to see loads of battles between him and Schumacher, because they're easily the two biggest nutters on the grid. :up:


It was mostly the pre-race strategic call, which pushed Kobayashi that high in Valencia, because he was driving only 18th before the Safety car period... He was just on right tyres (hard ones)... That was the only thing... And then he overtook Alonso and Buemi on fresh 2 laps "old" tyres, while those two had their tyres 47 laps... So, I don t see it as a big miracle... He did a much better job in Silverstone from my point of view... And he crashes also quite much for my taste... But still a 2nd best rookie for me...

Edited by marcoferrari, 01 October 2010 - 17:03.


#25 Don_Humpador

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 17:49

It was mostly the pre-race strategic call, which pushed Kobayashi that high in Valencia, because he was driving only 18th before the Safety car period... He was just on right tyres (hard ones)... That was the only thing... And then he overtook Alonso and Buemi on fresh 2 laps "old" tyres, while those two had their tyres 47 laps... So, I don t see it as a big miracle... He did a much better job in Silverstone from my point of view... And he crashes also quite much for my taste... But still a 2nd best rookie for me...


Bahrain - RET - Hydraulics
Australia - RET - Front wing failure
Malaysia - RET - Engine
China - RET - Speared into by Liuzzi
Monaco - RET - Gearbox
Canada - RET - Crashed
Italy - RET - Gearbox
Singapore - RET - Crashed

He has only crashed out of a race by his own mistake twice. And the two tracks he crashed out of - were both tracks he'd never been to before.

People seem to remember the odd crash in practice and turn him into something he isn't. Maybe he crashes in practice because, A) he's not driven any of these circuits in an F1 car and B) he's finding his limit in practice?

#26 SPBHM

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 18:41

Kobayashi and Hulkenberg

#27 Bunchies

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 18:54

Kobayashi.

Of the "big" three rookies (Hulkenburg, Petrov, Kobayashi), he has the worst car. It blew up a few times in the beginning of the season, and the pace has been about the same as Williams (til recently) and MUCH slower than Renault.

Despite having the slowest, least reliable car, Kobayashi has more points than both Petrov and Hulkenberg. I think it is safe to say that he is the best of the rookies, and I expect him to continue.

#28 Simon Says

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 19:11

Voted Hulkenberg.
Yeah, he is losing to Barrichello, but remember that Rubens last year matched Jenson who is now matching Lewis.

Kamui wasn't much faster than DeLaRosa.


Kobayashi outqualified Alonso who drives in a superior Ferrari. He puts that Sauber many times also in top 10 qualifying where that Sauber doesn't even belong. And in Valencia, he was really fast, only Jenson in a Mclaren was able to follow him, the rest were dropping back in comparison to him and he was on old tyres :drunk:

Nico is a huge letdown this season. Everybody was talking about how badly he would kill Rubens and that it would be Rubens his final year in F1. It's quiet the opposite, Nico is no match for Rubens.

Kobayashi is the best rookie of 2011. :up:

#29 Simon Says

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 19:13

Hülkenberg has been doing very well the last handful of races, but Barrichello wasn't matching Button last year, and Button isn't matching Hamilton. There's a gap between them and it was roughly the saem with Barrichello and Button.
Having said that, Hülkenberg has probably got the fastest team-mate out of all the rookies, so I can understand your choice, no problem. Glock is very fast in my eyes (appearing not much slower, if at all, than Trulli) but Di Grassi has been too far off his pace.
Kobayashi has been a tad quicker than de la Rosa, who is a safe pair of hands but probably not as quick as Barrichello or Glock.
He's been able to beat his team-mate though, so I vote for Kobayashi.
...even if he's made quite a few mistakes.


In the 2nd half of the season, Rubens got the upper hand over Jenson really.

#30 KavB

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 19:56

Bahrain - RET - Hydraulics
Australia - RET - Front wing failure
Malaysia - RET - Engine
China - RET - Speared into by Liuzzi
Monaco - RET - Gearbox
Canada - RET - Crashed
Italy - RET - Gearbox
Singapore - RET - Crashed

He has only crashed out of a race by his own mistake twice. And the two tracks he crashed out of - were both tracks he'd never been to before.

People seem to remember the odd crash in practice and turn him into something he isn't. Maybe he crashes in practice because, A) he's not driven any of these circuits in an F1 car and B) he's finding his limit in practice?

I find it bizarre when he's referred to as a crasher. Brundle takes little digs at him from time to time, like at Singapore (I think he said " We've seen Kobayashi not knowing which way to turn quite often this year"). Like you said, he has only crashed out twice this season. That's completely normal for a rookie.


#31 domhnall

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 20:40

Hulkenberg has improved a lot over the year, especially when they got onto the european tracks he knows from GP2. I think he's got a very bright future ahead of him.

#32 Seanspeed

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 20:51

I'm going with Hulkenberg. Kobayashi has had his moments, but I'm still far from convinced that he's that good. Especially when he's only got De La Rosa as a benchmark to judge upon. Who's to say that a better driver wouldn't be making that car look much better? He hasn't been bad, though, I'll give him that. Promising, but has a lot to prove still.

Hulkenberg on the other hand, has a very solid and known benchmark for a teammate. When the Hulk beats Rubens, it really does mean something. And its happening more and more lately. Watching this teammate battle next year might be very interesting. If Hulk can beat Rubens over a season, he's in good shape for a nice F1 career I think.

Edited by Seanspeed, 01 October 2010 - 20:54.


#33 highdownforce

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 21:02

Lets refresh our memories...

Posted Image

#34 zeph

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 21:16

Hate to break it to y'all, but Kobayashi is not a rookie.

#35 Seanspeed

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 21:30

Hate to break it to y'all, but Kobayashi is not a rookie.

He's had less than a season's racing, so it'd be a bit ridiculous to say he's anything but.

#36 Atreiu

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 21:34

I voted for Di Grassi on impulse, but a few momments later I thought I should have voted for The Incredible Hulk!
:)

#37 metz

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 21:38

We all know about his 2 races last year.
Whenever a drive starts during the year we need to consider if his races were significant enough to count as the season.
Was Vettels race for BMW (while Kubica was injured) his rookie year?
Technicaly, Kobayashi is a rookie until Korea.

#38 Mandzipop

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 22:33

Lets refresh our memories...

Posted Image


That is an interesting table. The most mistake prone is Kobayashi. The driver with the poorest reliability is Senna. 4 have points scoring cars, the others are more difficult to measure. The only way to measure is give them all 5 days in the RB6 with 1 hour per day in the same conditions around the same track which is impossible. The only driver who has a true benchmark against the current crop is Senna. He waa 3/10ths slower than Button in his first outing in an F1 car. Is that a disgrace in only 3 years in motorsport? As a comparison, Vettel blitzed the field in his first practice session in an F1 car. He was in a BMW Sauber, and nobody knows the fuel loads, but that is why he turned heads. Di Grassi is only ahead of Clock due to high attrition rates. The same is for Chandhok and Senna.

Impossible to compare the newbies.

#39 Bunchies

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 22:40

I'm going with Hulkenberg. Kobayashi has had his moments, but I'm still far from convinced that he's that good. Especially when he's only got De La Rosa as a benchmark to judge upon. Who's to say that a better driver wouldn't be making that car look much better? He hasn't been bad, though, I'll give him that. Promising, but has a lot to prove still.


I think that the Williams is a better car overall (at least more reliable and at the very least, the same speed) than the Sauber. How then, does it logically fit to place Hulk over Koba when Koba has more points in what is at best, an equal car, and realistically, a worse one?

Edited by Bunchies, 01 October 2010 - 22:41.


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#40 Bunchies

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 22:44

Hate to break it to y'all, but Kobayashi is not a rookie.


And so this discounts his performance from this season then? 2 races at the end of the season does not put him on another plane from Petrov and Hulkenberg.

#41 Mandzipop

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 22:46

If I was a rookie this year, I would start sweet-talking to Ferrari. I would get pounding around the track in the F2008. Combine that with the simulator and experience of this year's car, it would be be just as good as a position as being in a race drive. Especially if the driver is prepared to initially play second fiddle to Alonso. That is the seat I would be looking at of course if it is available. Both Massa and Alonso were prepared to sit it out for a year. Ferrari are probably the only team that can get away with it to a certain extent.

Edited by Mandzipop, 01 October 2010 - 22:47.


#42 Atreiu

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 22:49

When did Ferrari ever NOT get away with something?

#43 Seanspeed

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 22:59

I think that the Williams is a better car overall (at least more reliable and at the very least, the same speed) than the Sauber. How then, does it logically fit to place Hulk over Koba when Koba has more points in what is at best, an equal car, and realistically, a worse one?

The points difference is minor, and there's still 4 races to go dont forget.

But really, points rarely tell the whole story. Especially when we're talking about midfield teams. For instance, Kobayashi got quite lucky in Valencia with the SC(though he did well to make the most of his opportunity) to get his highest place finish, while Hulkenberg's best finish was largely on merit.

Also, who's to say that the Sauber is really worse than the Williams? The only way we have to judge is by the drivers they have, and I dont think its impossible that if Rubens had joined Sauber, that he might be performing equally well in it as he is in the Williams. I'm not saying that definitely would have happened, but as I said - not impossible I dont think. The Sauber has looked quite good in a few instances, and unless Kobayashi is a real star of the future, then it reasons that there's drivers on the grid that'd be capable of making the car look a fair bit better than Sauber's current drivers have.



#44 Bunchies

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 23:11

The points difference is minor, and there's still 4 races to go dont forget.

But really, points rarely tell the whole story. Especially when we're talking about midfield teams. For instance, Kobayashi got quite lucky in Valencia with the SC(though he did well to make the most of his opportunity) to get his highest place finish, while Hulkenberg's best finish was largely on merit.

Also, who's to say that the Sauber is really worse than the Williams? The only way we have to judge is by the drivers they have, and I dont think its impossible that if Rubens had joined Sauber, that he might be performing equally well in it as he is in the Williams. I'm not saying that definitely would have happened, but as I said - not impossible I dont think. The Sauber has looked quite good in a few instances, and unless Kobayashi is a real star of the future, then it reasons that there's drivers on the grid that'd be capable of making the car look a fair bit better than Sauber's current drivers have.


I do understand, but I still think it's folly to compare on a teammate vs teammate basis. Then you have the job of comparing so many more drivers. But we do know the relative pace of what sauber has shown, compared to williams and renault. Given that equipment, the best way to compare would be on results. And even regardless of the car, Koba is still on top, even with all of his DNFs. And even Nick Heidfeld hasn't been able to go faster than Kobayashi, and I certainly think Nick is a pretty good driver. If there was such a large performance gap between the drivers, wouldn't we see a Klien vs. Senna type gap?

And about Martin Brundle: He does seem to harp on about Kobayashi crashing a lot. Yet, he doesn't seem to give Petrov too much grief. I think Martin is allowing himself into the trap of stereotyping. He seems to think that Koba is Sato? :rotfl:

#45 Dispenser89

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 00:30

The Hulk, just from Kobayashi and Alguersuari (seeing as he's included).

The Hulk's improved greatly over the year, after a poor start, and is now matching Rubens more or less.
Kobayashi's put in a couple of great top 10 quali performances, but his race pace has been more impressive imo.
Alguersuari's been really consistent in a car that's stuck in the back of the midfield, just outside the points on most occasions, it seems.

Edited by Dispenser89, 02 October 2010 - 00:31.


#46 Hezz

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 00:54

Can't believe that 8 people actually voted for Petrov as the "best".
The guy is driving a podium capable car, certainly the best of all the rookies.
If he matched his teamate on points, Renault would be in Ferrari territory.
His teammate has 6 times the number of points he has. That has to be a lobsided record of sorts.
He has had only 2 races where he did not screw up, not to mention the errors, crashes and brain fades during practice and quali.
Will the money his dad brings to Renault even cover the carnage he creates?
I like him as a person. He freely admits when he screws up and never finds excuses.
At worst, he doesn't deserve to be in F1 (just yet). At best he needs to be in a lesser team.
Maybe he will turn it around in his second year, like Sutil did.
But this year he is just an accident waiting to happen.
I can't be that critical of the others, considering the equipment they have to work with.
Petrov has no such excuse.



Common Metz, this is about best rookie, not the most disliked :confused:
Vitaly deserved those words maybe, but not here!

"If he matched his teamate on points, Renault would be in Ferrari territory."
And why that? You think about Nick on par, didn't You?
He made it and even better.
And?
That's not fair from You :down:


#47 Seanspeed

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 00:57

I do understand, but I still think it's folly to compare on a teammate vs teammate basis. Then you have the job of comparing so many more drivers. But we do know the relative pace of what sauber has shown, compared to williams and renault. Given that equipment, the best way to compare would be on results. And even regardless of the car, Koba is still on top, even with all of his DNFs. And even Nick Heidfeld hasn't been able to go faster than Kobayashi, and I certainly think Nick is a pretty good driver. If there was such a large performance gap between the drivers, wouldn't we see a Klien vs. Senna type gap?

Its not a folly at all. In fact, judging drivers based on their teammates is usually the best way to go about it.

At Sauber, there's a rookie and a driver that was never that good to begin with who's also been out of racing for longer than Schumacher, so its VERY hard to be certain of anything when it comes to how good the Sauber really is. We have no idea how much better that car might look in the hands of somebody more proven. You can bring up Heidfeld if you like, but its a bit misleading to say "even Nick Heidfeld hasn't been able to go faster than Kobayashi", as obviously they've only had one race together, and it was Nick's first time in the car.

You seem to be trying to twist the facts to suit your theory, while I'm merely saying that there's big question marks over how good Kobayashi actually is. I've never said he was bad or anything, I just happen to be more impressed by a rookie that is taking it to a known quantity like Rubens at the moment. I dont care what the standings show.

Kobayashi can prove me wrong later on, but for now, its how I see things.

#48 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 01:56

I voted Vitaly Petrov, given his very limited experience ahead of the season. He didn't start open-wheel racing until GP2, never drove karts and didn't have the factory backing that the likes of Hulkenberg and Kobayashi have enjoyed (in Hulkenberg's case, it was Williams). He might be a bit rough around the edge, but his performances in Hungary and China (and Silverstone before his engine gave up) prove that something is there. Renault just need to tap into it and channel it in qualifying.

Hulkenberg has been the least-impressive rookie to me. His early races have been full of mistakes like that spin at Bahrain and a completely needless self-imposed penalty in Canada after a fruitless lunge at Sutil (or Rosberg; I can't remember) that everyone but Nico Hulkenberg could see was never going to stick. He's gotten faster, but he's also gotten scrappier - he's repeatedly cut chicanes at Spa, Monza and Marina Bay, and he's ruined someone else's race (like Petrov in Singapore) on several occasions. He just lacks the discipline needed.

#49 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 01:58

Can't believe that 8 people actually voted for Petrov as the "best".
The guy is driving a podium capable car, certainly the best of all the rookies.
If he matched his teamate on points, Renault would be in Ferrari territory.
His teammate has 6 times the number of points he has. That has to be a lobsided record of sorts.
He has had only 2 races where he did not screw up, not to mention the errors, crashes and brain fades during practice and quali.
Will the money his dad brings to Renault even cover the carnage he creates?
I like him as a person. He freely admits when he screws up and never finds excuses.
At worst, he doesn't deserve to be in F1 (just yet). At best he needs to be in a lesser team.
Maybe he will turn it around in his second year, like Sutil did.
But this year he is just an accident waiting to happen.
I can't be that critical of the others, considering the equipment they have to work with.
Petrov has no such excuse.

He's a rookie driver! With limited experience. In a car that Renault didn't expect to be a contender for race wins. How the hell do you expect him to keep up with Robert Kubica, one of the highest-rated drivers on the grid? Martin Brundle said it himself: Kubica is now a world-class driver. Vitaly Petrov has just fifteen races to his name. Don't you think you're being a little unfair?

#50 Grisu

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 02:00

In my opinion, Christian Klien is the best Rookie in 2010. At his first race this season, he was faster by 1.2 seconds over Bruno and his pace in the race was far better than Bruno's.

He showed that both Yamamota anf Bruno are not qualified to race in f1 series. Add Klien as an option in your poll :)