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Firle Hill Climb help needed


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#51 pete53

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 14:51

I have just come across reports and results on two Firle Hill Climbs in 1962 in Autosport. I think you may have the details of the July 8th event organised by the MGCC with btd W.Heatcote (Lotus) 25.40. There was also a BARC (S.E.Centre) meet on 27th May - btd Arthur Owen (Cooper) 24.83s ( an new outright record at the time).



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#52 Rupertlt1

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 15:18

I have just come across reports and results on two Firle Hill Climbs in 1962 in Autosport. I think you may have the details of the July 8th event organised by the MGCC with btd W.Heatcote (Lotus) 25.40. There was also a BARC (S.E.Centre) meet on 27th May - btd Arthur Owen (Cooper) 24.83s ( an new outright record at the time).


Pete53, Fantastic - can you quote the page numbers please? You don't have reports from 1967? The last two meetings in particular? Still trying to trace the mystery Lotus Elan?


#53 pete53

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 15:34

Pete53, Fantastic - can you quote the page numbers please? You don't have reports from 1967? The last two meetings in particular? Still trying to trace the mystery Lotus Elan?

1962 May 27 event Autosport June 8th page 836 Vol.24 no.23
1962 July 8 event - Autosport July 13th page 64 Vol.25 no.2

I have also found a few more

1963 May 26 - Autosport May 31 page 767 Vol.26 No.22
1963 July 14 - Autosport July 19 page 103 Vol.27 No.3
1964 July 12 - Autosport July 17 page 116 Vol.29 No.3
1965 May 30 - Autosport June 11 page 922 Vol.30 No.24
1966 May 29 - Autosport June 10 page 982 Vol.32 No.23
1966 June 19 - Autosport July 1 page 28 Vol.33 No.1

I will see if I have anything on the 1967 meets - I don't have many Autosports from that year but have a few Motoring News.
Pete


#54 Rupertlt1

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 16:28

1962 May 27 event Autosport June 8th page 836 Vol.24 no.23
1962 July 8 event - Autosport July 13th page 64 Vol.25 no.2

I have also found a few more

1963 May 26 - Autosport May 31 page 767 Vol.26 No.22
1963 July 14 - Autosport July 19 page 103 Vol.27 No.3
1964 July 12 - Autosport July 17 page 116 Vol.29 No.3
1965 May 30 - Autosport June 11 page 922 Vol.30 No.24
1966 May 29 - Autosport June 10 page 982 Vol.32 No.23
1966 June 19 - Autosport July 1 page 28 Vol.33 No.1

I will see if I have anything on the 1967 meets - I don't have many Autosports from that year but have a few Motoring News.
Pete


Wonderful stuff - so I now have:

1962 May 27, A. Owen, Cooper, 24.83 sec Record, - Autosport June 8th page 836 Vol.24 no.23
1962 July 8, Bill Heathcote (Lotus 18-Ford 1.0) 25.40 - Autosport July 13th page 64 Vol.25 no.2

1963 May 26, Patsy Burt (Cooper T59-Climax 2.0) 24.45 - Autosport May 31 page 767 Vol.26 No.22
1963 July 14, Gordon Parker (Cooper T43-Climax 1.5) 25.06 - Autosport July 19 page 103 Vol.27 No.3
1963 Sept 15, Peter Farquharson (Allard J2-Chrysler 5.4) 26.23 - ref:???

1964 May 31, Gordon Parker (Cooper T43-Climax 1.5 s/c) 23.87 - ref:???
1964 July 12, David Beckett (Lister-Jaguar 3.8) 27.89 - Autosport July 17 page 116 Vol.29 No.3
1964 Sept 13, David Beckett (Lister-Jaguar 3.8) 25.45 - ref:???

1965 May 30, Patsy Burt (Cooper T59-Climax 2.0) 24.22- Autosport June 11 page 922 Vol.30 No.24
1965 July 11, Gordon Parker (Cooper Spl-Climax 1.5 s/c) 26.87 - ref:???
1965 Aug 29, Gordon Parker (Cooper Spl-Climax 1.5 s/c) 23.09 - ref:???
1965 Sept 12, Fred Tindell (Lister-Jaguar 3.8) 25.88 Richard or Dick Tindell??? - ref:???
I believe Autosport, September 17, 1965, Vol 31 No 12 contains a report?

1966 May 29, John Barnes (Elva 7-Ford 1.65 s/c) 24.09 - Autosport June 10 page 982 Vol.32 No.23
1966 Jun 19, Don Harris (DMF 3-Ford 1.6) 24.02 - Autosport July 1 page 28 Vol.33 No.1
1966 Sept ??? Cancelled ??? What happened???

Re 1966 are any dates listed in forthcoming events? Could be BARC (end Aug/early Sept) and Bentley D.C., probably September 18th?

Check. Many thanks RLT

P.S. Does anybody have the BARC Gazette and/or Bentley Drivers' Club Review covering the 1966 period?

Edited by Rupertlt1, 05 December 2010 - 14:42.


#55 Rupertlt1

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 14:48

I have just bought: C. A. N. May, Speed Hill-Climb, G.T. Foulis & Co LTD, 1962.

This book has no index or sources which is disappointing in a work of reference. However it is packed with information.

My Index:

Firle: Pages 27, 50, 51, 61, 78, 91, 92, 99, 113, 120, 139, 140, 155, 160, 161, 169, 187.

Bodiam: Pages 94, 108, 123, 141, 188.

Edited by Rupertlt1, 05 December 2010 - 14:50.


#56 Wrotham

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 12:34

Hi
I have attached scans of the covers of the following programmes: BDC 12th Sept 65, BRDC 29th Aug 65 and BARC 2nd October 60.
Also there is a single page of results for the October 1960 event for classes 12, 13 and 14. You will see that at this meeting the MONACO driven by J Bedford broke the Class record with a run of 29:20 faster than J Tiller in the Allard!!
We are still running the Monaco at various Race, Hillclimb and Sprint events and I also show a picture taken at this years Crystal Palace Sprint.
Hope this is of some interestsorry there is not more results.
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#57 Rupertlt1

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 13:04

This is wonderful stuff - many thanks for posting. :up: (note: BARC, 29th Aug 65).

I know the Monaco from the Brighton Speed Trials - how many times have you raced there? It would be great to see it on Firle hill one more time!

By chance I see you have the f.t.d. car on your result sheet for October 2, 1960 - the Lister-Corvette of Mike Anthony in 26.08 sec. I've just contacted Mike and look forward to reporting a few yarns!




#58 bradbury west

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 13:54

It is always refreshing to see another entry for Brands Hatch "legend" & sometime Santa Claus John Mew out in what i assume was his Lotus 18. He is/was a true enthusiast.
Roger Lund

#59 Rupertlt1

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 22:23

I contacted Mike Anthony, now 82, winner of the Firle Hill Climb. Enjoy:

Firle Hill Climb (BARC) Oct 2, 1960
M. Anthony, Lister-Corvette 5,555 c.c., overall f.t.d. 26.08 secs
New record for Class 12, previously held by M.A. Knights, Lister, 26.46 sec.

Q. Firstly I’d like to know about the Lister – where you got it from, what you did to it, install Chevrolet engine? Was it YCD 422?

My, my, you do ask a lot of questions. The car came from a gentleman called Brian Lister. He had a factory in Cambridge and they sold chassis, body, running gear etc. So I bought one. I shared the car with Malcolm Knights, a dentist from Eastbourne.

I bought an engine from an American troop car dump near Paris. The block was bored to the maximum capacity possible, pistons and a stroked crank were bought from a firm called McGurk in California. I made a dry sump set up for the engine. Malcolm made an inlet manifold ( very, very, badly) and the Solex factory in London made me 8 carbs that were a copy of the ones used by a little firm in Italy called Ferrari. I have no idea where the gearbox came from or what it was but there was one, it worked and gave no trouble.

So there you have it ambition great, ability nil. The engine had a capacity of 5555 c.c. Had it been standard, fitted with an Isky cam and a Holley 4 barrell it would probably have gone very well (the stupidity of youth). Malcolm’s manifold touched various places where it should but not all, early days had water in the oil and on the overrun smoke was seen to blow out the exhaust. Things got better but we sold the car to Mike Pendleton for £850 without the useless chevvy engine. He fitted a Jag engine (I still see him from time to time) he and Ted Whiteway shared the car and had quite a lot of fun. They sold it after a year (or 2) for Dick Tindall [spelling?].

Later the car was bought by Marsh Plant and raced by Gerry Marshall. It was one of very few original Listers then running. It was raced a few years ago with very great success by Julian Bronson. When he wanted to race it with a 5500cc chevvy engine it was not permitted (there were no 5500 cc cars racing in 1959, I did not argue as my car at the time was hardly racing). 2 years ago Julian succumbed to the lure of filthy money and sold the car to America to the Hilton family for $600,000. Thus depriving me of somewhere to go and sit in the paddock of the September Goodwood annual revival.

Q. Who you sold it to, what they did to it? I believe a Fred Owen and Dick Tindell [spelling?] were involved later somehow? Was it converted back to Jaguar power.

See above.

Q. Can you say who is driving in the picture [supplied]?

That was Malcolm Knights who died about 10 years ago. I still am using bits from his last invalid car that his wife gave me when he died.

Q. Did you compete at other meetings at Firle? Who was M.A. Knights?

See above, did not compete at other meetings I think. [Although M.A. Knights was listed as the existing record holder on Oct 2, 1960, so at least the car had been there before.]

Q. Did you drive any other competition car(s)?

Does a horse have fleas (dunno).
My worldwide success was so great that very few people ever heard of me at the time and those that did are now dead, but you seem a curious person (read that as you will).

1949 started racing a prewar Jaguar SS90 (like a 100 but rubbish).
1954 built Lotus VI, Chapman, Gammon and I formed Team Lotus at Oulton Park.
1955 built Lotus 10 with Bristol engine.
1956 built Lotus 11 with Bristol engine lying on its side, enormously stupid and complicated for some reason (there were 1000s, kept blowing up). Sold car without engine.
1957 I raced Malcolm Knights’ Triumph TR and we beat both the works sponsored teams and Syd Hurrell. He ran a specialist TR tuning business in Leighton Buzzard and was very successful.
1958 built from odd bits an AC Bristol (in partnership with Malcolm Knights). Simple and straightforward, raced car all over the place, drove it to races in Spa and Clermond Ferrand. Did quite well in fact, did better than that at Spa [where] there was a 2 litre GT race in the rain. A young man called Jim Clark was in our race, it was his first race abroad and we took him under our wing. He was driving a Border Reivers Porsche. He came nowhere and I won, oh, if only it could have gone on like that.
1959 built Lister and also a Gemini Mark 3 Formula Junior car.
1960 raced very hot mini, very fast for its time, we cheated and put a bigger engine in it (Does that sound like me ? I am surprised.)

Other odd cars driven:
Jaguar D from Marks And Sparks
Jaguar D from Ecurie Ecosse
Works AC
Cooper Bristol sports car
Lotus 11 from Bob Hicks, and more memory fails
Lotus 11 from Lotus, in TT.
Countries raced in:
Scotland, Ireland, France, Germany, Italy, Denmark, Sweden.

Q. I’m trying to solve the mystery of the closure of Firle. At some point in 1966/1967 a dark blue Lotus Elan coupe, #90, with gold centre stripe and gold steel wheels hit some spectators. I believe this incident led either directly or indirectly to the closure of the course. I am trying to trace who was driving this car? Can you, or any associates, help?

No ideas about Lotus, closure of Firle or anything.

Q. Do you have any programmes, paperwork, memorabilia (the trophy), photographs of Firle or elsewhere?

Nothing relating to Firle, and very little relating to anywhere else.

I hope this isn’t all too much. You must be bored to tears by now. Oh I have just remembered I also built the odd transporter or two - this one is my screen saver so I should not have forgotten it. I did not aim to paint it and the car the same colour as the trees, it just happened, this photo was taken on old fashioned film in 1956 (?) and recently restored by a friend with a (or is it just) paintbox or even photoshop.

It had a TR2 souped-up engine, overdrive and would do 100 mph with the car on. Its longest journey was from Silverstone on a Sunday to Bari southern Italy on Friday. Little matters like the Alps, 1000s of km of poorly maintained roads, no autostrada or Autoroute in those days, though we did go on some German autobahn the next year with the Gemini on it to race in Solitude Rennen.

We were mad, if I knew now what I know now I would not have raced. But when I did the car would have been as simple as possible. I may not have won many races but by golly I would have finished a lot. Hope all this is of some interest. Until you asked your questions I had not thought of any of it for years.

Edited by Rupertlt1, 09 December 2010 - 01:26.


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#60 fuzzi

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 07:08

Hooray for Mr Anthony :wave:

#61 Allan Lupton

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 09:44

Splendid to have that in writing too!
All those cars and even a transporter for Bjorn - looks as if Mr Anthony learned from the Daimler-Benz high speed transporters.

#62 RAP

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 11:19

I was there when an Elan crashed and mounted the bank as described. I beleive it was 29 May 66 and #90 was K Barrow of the Circle CC. Autosports report says "The excellent event was marred by the crash of Ken Barrow's Elan which injured three spectators. The driver was only slightly hurt" [10-6-66 p982]. There is however I feel an inaccuracy in Jim Tiller's description. The path on the right of the hill where the Elan went across to was the main footpath up the hill for spectators. To get to the top corner you either followed the course on the right (lower) side or you scaled a very steep hillside from the paddock straight up the scarp face of the downs. I dont therefore think those hit were wandering hikers as anyone wandering from the top of the Downs would be on the LEFT of the hill (going up) and I'cant overstate how steep it is, I suspect you could not walk down it would be a slide on the bottom job.

It doesnt seem this directly was the cause the closure of the hill although it may be the reason why the August meeting was cancelled. Events carried on until the end of 67.

I suspect the public right of way thing was part of the problem as there was no other way to get to the glider club and these days at least there is nothing to indicate this is a private road and the old top paddock is a car park used by walkers etc. At the time I was told by someone in the B & H MC (of which I as a member) that Bo=Peep farm had changed hands and the new owner was not pro-motor sport. One of the farm fields was used as the spectator car park and he might even have owned the old chalk pit that was the paddock. Perhaps he raised the public right of way issue?

If you can post a complete list of the events & results you have I'll see if I have anythging else

RAP

#63 Rupertlt1

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 11:43

I was there when an Elan crashed and mounted the bank as described. I beleive it was 29 May 66 and #90 was K Barrow of the Circle CC. Autosports report says "The excellent event was marred by the crash of Ken Barrow's Elan which injured three spectators. The driver was only slightly hurt" [10-6-66 p982]. There is however I feel an inaccuracy in Jim Tiller's description. The path on the right of the hill where the Elan went across to was the main footpath up the hill for spectators. To get to the top corner you either followed the course on the right (lower) side or you scaled a very steep hillside from the paddock straight up the scarp face of the downs. I dont therefore think those hit were wandering hikers as anyone wandering from the top of the Downs would be on the LEFT of the hill (going up) and I'cant overstate how steep it is, I suspect you could not walk down it would be a slide on the bottom job.

It doesnt seem this directly was the cause the closure of the hill although it may be the reason why the August meeting was cancelled. Events carried on until the end of 67.

I suspect the public right of way thing was part of the problem as there was no other way to get to the glider club and these days at least there is nothing to indicate this is a private road and the old top paddock is a car park used by walkers etc. At the time I was told by someone in the B & H MC (of which I as a member) that Bo=Peep farm had changed hands and the new owner was not pro-motor sport. One of the farm fields was used as the spectator car park and he might even have owned the old chalk pit that was the paddock. Perhaps he raised the public right of way issue?

If you can post a complete list of the events & results you have I'll see if I have anythging else

RAP


I'm delighted that you have showed up - I've been trying to solve this mystery for months. As usual the answer was hiding in plain sight.
Some questions: Do we have a date for the cancelled August meeting? Did the B.D.C. hold their meeting in September which I would have expected on September 18th - the day after the Brighton Speed Trials?

The output of this thread is here:

http://en.wikipedia....irle_Hill_Climb

Please try and fill in the gaps. I know most of the results but need references.


#64 RWB

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 12:38

Unless it was rescheduled, the September 1958 event was on the 7th, not the 14th according to the programme.

#65 pete53

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 12:39

I have noticed that you don't have a time for Arthur Owen's btd for the 28 May 1961 event - Autosport (June 9 vol 22 no 23) gives it as 25.94. This issue of Autosport gave a detailed result listing. I also have an Autosport dated 5 June 1959 (vol 18 no 23) which has a full page report and full results.
Pete

#66 RAP

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 12:44

May 56 was the 1st BARC event and time was 29.63” per the programme for 2 June 57 event page 16
Oct 5 58 BTD Alistair Park Tojeiro 29.78” – I cant now give source for this but it was probably Motoring News
22 July 60 MGCC BTD Bernard Millbank Lotus VI MG 30.21” - unable to quote source prob. Motoring News
3 Sept 61 Bentley BTD Mike Barker Alton Jag 27.28” source not known
15 Sept 63 Bentley Peter Farquharson Allard 26.23 Autosport 4-10-63 p472
13 Sept 64 Bentley David Beckett Lister Jag 25.45 Autosport 18-9-64 p462
29 Aug 65 Gordon Parker Cooper Climax 23.09 Autosport 3-9-65 p387
12-9-65 Bentley Rex Tindell Lister Jag 25.88 Autosport 17-9-65 p464
28 Aug 66 BARC – cancelled
Sept 66 Bentley – cancelled ?
27 Aug 67 John Fenwick 1.6 Brabham Ford BT18 24.52” Autosport 8-9-67 p420
17 Sept 67 Bentley Mike Barker Alton Jag 25.71” - source my “on the day” record of times


#67 Rupertlt1

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 12:48

Unless it was rescheduled, the September 1958 event was on the 7th, not the 14th according to the programme.


Point taken. Can you scan the programme cover?


#68 Rupertlt1

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 12:49

I have noticed that you don't have a time for Arthur Owen's btd for the 28 May 1961 event - Autosport (June 9 vol 22 no 23) gives it as 25.94. This issue of Autosport gave a detailed result listing. I also have an Autosport dated 5 June 1959 (vol 18 no 23) which has a full page report and full results.
Pete


Can you quote page numbers? Any further information please post here!


#69 RAP

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 12:55

Missing Bodiam results from the 1967 programme
1964 David Beckett Lister Jaguar 27.04 Course record
1965 John Barnes Elva Mk7 27.63
22 Oct 66 John Barnes Elva Mk7 27.86"

RAP

#70 pete53

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 13:13

Can you quote page numbers? Any further information please post here!

June 5 1959 page 730 & cont on 738
June 9 1961 page 774 and 775

#71 Rupertlt1

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 14:28

June 5 1959 page 730 & cont on 738
June 9 1961 page 774 and 775


I don't seem to know about these dates at all. Can you give f.t.d. info with times? Also organising club? Any other bits and pieces?

P.S. Sorry I am getting confused btw dates of events and dates of publication. Not the least of reasons for summarising everything on Wikipedia!

Edited by Rupertlt1, 09 December 2010 - 16:40.


#72 Stephen W

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 16:25

Dud Chandler has had an article entitled "Firle Hill Climb Revisited" published in the latest Speedscene magazine - well worth a look.

:wave:

#73 Rupertlt1

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 16:47

Dud Chandler has had an article entitled "Firle Hill Climb Revisited" published in the latest Speedscene magazine - well worth a look.

:wave:


Which issue is this? I'd hate to order the wrong one!


#74 fuzzi

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 17:47

Which issue is this? I'd hate to order the wrong one!


Speedscene 161 (arrived here yesterday) :wave:

#75 David McKinney

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 18:13

Dud Chandler has had an article entitled "Firle Hill Climb Revisited" published in the latest Speedscene magazine - well worth a look.

I would consider it much more authoritative if written by Dud Candler :)


#76 J. Scott Morris

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 20:12

Dud Chandler has had an article entitled "Firle Hill Climb Revisited" published in the latest Speedscene magazine - well worth a look.

:wave:


I have not seen this magazine on this side of the pond so if a scan of the article could be made, with permission of course, it would be appreciated.

Also, I went through the 1968 and 1969 issues of Safety Fast and came up with the following brief notice.

In the June 1969 issue of Safety Fast on page 6, Tony Bugbird reported the following for the M.G.C.C. South-Eastern Centre …
“Much has been reported in the past about the problems associated with the hill climb venue at Firle so it may come
as no small surprise that the M.G.C.C. meeting at Firle has been cancelled with nothing as yet taking its place.”

Hope this helps a bit Rupert.

--Scott Morris, Simcoe, Ontario, Canada


#77 Rupertlt1

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 20:29

I have not seen this magazine on this side of the pond so if a scan of the article could be made, with permission of course, it would be appreciated.

Also, I went through the 1968 and 1969 issues of Safety Fast and came up with the following brief notice.

In the June 1969 issue of Safety Fast on page 6, Tony Bugbird reported the following for the M.G.C.C. South-Eastern Centre …
“Much has been reported in the past about the problems associated with the hill climb venue at Firle so it may come
as no small surprise that the M.G.C.C. meeting at Firle has been cancelled with nothing as yet taking its place.”

Hope this helps a bit Rupert.

--Scott Morris, Simcoe, Ontario, Canada


Scott, Great to see you on here. I may splurge and order a copy of Speedscene - the last copy I bought was 75 pence - but that was in 1986! To be fair they have done great service to the sport of hill climbing. We've now solved the great Lotus Elan mystery, so now we need to establish the date of the M.G.C.C. meeting at Firle in 1960. We have Sunday July 10 and Friday July 22 as contenders? The latter seems unlikely - could this be the date of the publication of the report? More help needed. RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 09 December 2010 - 22:03.


#78 fuzzi

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 09:38

Speedscene is published by the Hillclimb and Sprint Association (HSA). The magazine is published 6 times a year and is available on subscription from the HSA. As well as reports on the Hillclimb and Sprint Championships in the UK, and sometimes Ireland, by well-informed reporters. There are also articles on bygone days, race car preparation and news about new venues, which are coming thick and fast.

If you are interested I suggest you contact the membership secretary at: membership@hillclimbandsprint.co.uk

(I'm only a subscriber as my wife would kill me if I said I was going to compete - but I'm working on that, I might get away with a thick ear).

#79 Rupertlt1

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 10:41

Basil Bowman, winner at Bodiam in 1959, writes: "So -- you have had some exchanges with Michael [Anthony] - a dear friend of mine since 1947 or even earlier ! He is a very, very clever and inventive engineer and will try the most remarkable things --- the 848cc Mini he mentions actually belonged to the late Bill Heathcote, another greatly missed old pal, and Michael cut the crankshafts off at the clutch of a Minor 1000 and a Mini, and welded them together ! thereby creating the first [Mini] Cooper ! the result went very fast - until the weld broke !


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#80 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 13:58

Does anyone have a map of the course layout?

#81 Stephen W

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 14:56

You can get a copy of the latest Speedscene by following this link Speedscene

:wave:

#82 Rupertlt1

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 12:24

We've solved the mystery of the Lotus Elan accident, so now here is another puzzle. On the same day the Lotus crashed, May 29, 1966, a Martin Litchfield won Class 9, Special Touring and Grand Touring over 2,500 c.c., in a record-setting 25.0 sec. Listed in the programme as #100, M.S.P. Litchfield, member of the B.A.R.C., and driving an A.C. Cobra, 4,727 c.c.

The history of all the Cobras is well documented. So, which car is this? I have a photograph of the car on Firle hill and the registration number could be CLH959B, colour I would describe as light maroon. Driver in silver pudding-basin style helmet.
See: http://saacforum.com...hp?topic=7713.0

So it seems that the car was owned by Patrick Lichfield (note without the 'T'), the royal photographer. His car was supplied new by H.W. Motors, leaving the factory on December 10, 1964, described as Rouge Irise and Black, chassis number COB 6046.

So the question is who was Martin Litchfield - Patrick Lichfield in light disguise - or someone else altogether?

Edited by Rupertlt1, 11 December 2010 - 13:24.


#83 Rupertlt1

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 16:23

Still looking for citations to complete the table of winners here: http://en.wikipedia....irle_Hill_Climb

Many thanks to contributors. One last push and we are finished!

C. A. N. May, Speed Hill-Climb, G.T. Foulis & Co LTD, 1962, Page 53 - talking about B.O.C. Prescott, May 9, 1954: "Early on in the proceedings Michael Anthony captured the 1½ litre sports car class record with an M.G-engined Lotus, in a time of 49.42 seconds."

Edited by Rupertlt1, 17 December 2010 - 16:35.


#84 pete53

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 14:08

I don't think it has been posted before. I have just come across this Youtube footage of an in-car ride up the Firle Hillclimb course. It would be great to have some period footage!



Pete


#85 Rupertlt1

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 14:21

I don't think it has been posted before. I have just come across this Youtube footage of an in-car ride up the Firle Hillclimb course. It would be great to have some period footage!



Pete


There is some period coverage of Firle in this film: Winning Ways (1962), BMC Competitions Dept, Commentary by MG author Wilson McComb, Duration 21 minutes 46 seconds.


#86 Rupertlt1

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 15:23

FIRLE 1949:

PROGRAMME

CLASS (A)

BENTLEY 3-Litre, with closed body.

No entries.

CLASS (B)

BENTLEY 3-Litre, Old Type Sump Engine (Prior to 1926).

1. E.R. Greg
2. G.W. Dakin
3. K.D. Powell
4. G.R. Amey
5. R.B. Sutcliffe

CLASS ©
BENTLEY 3-Litre, Late Type Sump Engine (After 1926).

6. Mrs. B.M. Berthon
7. G.H.G. Burton
8. D.P. King
9. V. Axel-Berg
10. G. Dunn
11. R.D. Gregory
12. E. Beresford Huey

CLASS (D)
BENTLEY 4½-Litre, with Closed Body (Hood and Screen erected).

14. H.J. Wilmshurst

CLASS (E)
BENTLEY 4½-Litre, with Open Bodies and 10' 10" wheelbase.

15. S. Sedgwick
16. D. Halliday
17. E. J. Teal
18. J.B. Knight
19. W.G. Halliday

CLASS (F)
BENTLEY 4½-Litre, not eligible for Classes (D) and (E).

20. W.A.L. Cook
21. A.J. Jarvis
22. H.K. Place
23. C.C.H. Kramer
24. E.D.S. Baker
25. Forrest Lycett
26. W.H. Stout
27. S.J. Lawrence
28. C.H.D. Berthon

CLASS (G)
BENTLEY 4½-Litre, Supercharged

29. K. Nutt
30. W.G. Smeed
31. A.L. Pitts

CLASS (H)
BENTLEY 6½-Litre

No Entries.

CLASS (I)
BENTLEY 8-Litre

80. H. Parkinson

CLASS (J)
BENTLEY 3½-Litre

81. Gavin Maxwell

CLASS (K)
BENTLEY 4½-Litre

32. H.S.F. Hay
33. J.E.E. Cook

CLASS (L)
Any other make of car entered and driven by a member of the B.D.C.

34. G.M. Hutton (3.2 Bugatti)
35. G.M. Crozier (Mércèdes-Benz)
36. W.H. Charnock (2½-Litre Alvis)
37. J.C. Payne (Riley)

CLASS (M)
ASTON-MARTIN Ms ?? and International 1½-Litre.

38. D.E. Smith
39. D.S.G. Coram
40. T.H. Stewart
41. P.M. Sims
42. N.S. Rook
43. P.F. Black

CLASS (N)
ASTON-MARTIN ULSTER 1½-Litre.

44. K.G. Dale

CLASS (O)
ASTON-MARTIN STANDARD 2-Litre.

45. P.M. Penfold

CLASS (P)
ASTON-MARTIN SPEED MODEL 2-Litre.

46. F.E. Cowlrick

CLASS (Q)
FRAZER-NASH

47. A.C. Sears
48. R.C.C. Palmer

CLASS ®
LAGONDAS, 2-Litre

49. Mrs. M.K. Harman
50. K.L. Prosser

CLASS (S)
LAGONDA, 2-Litre Supercharged

51. M. Leo

CLASS (T)
LAGONDA, 3-Litre

52. J.F. Dixon

CLASS (U)
LAGONDA, 3½-Litre.

No Entries.

CLASS (V)
LAGONDA, 4½-Litre.

53. Mrs. T.A. Rufter
54. R.W. Wright
55. J.B. Stone
56. J. Goodhew
57. F.H. Howorth
58. B.A. Henry
59. M. Leo

CLASS (W)
LANCIA 1st-5th Series Lambdas (10' 1½").
6th-8th Series Lambdas (11' 3").
AUGUSTAS

60. Mrs. G. Crowther
61. D.H. Gahagan
62. J.I. Bremner

CLASS (X)
LANCIA LAMBDAS not eligible for Class (W).
APRILIAS
ARDEAS

63. J. Jane
65. D.L. Allen
66. N. Freedman
67. R.W. Austin
68. V.W. Derrington
69. D.B. Yorke-Long
70. N.R. Buckle

CLASS (Y)
LANCIA DILAMBDAS
ASTURA

71. J.G. Crowther


BENTLEY D.C. FIRLE HILL-CLIMB
The results of this speed event on
September 25th were:-

1st: F.H. Howorth (4½-Litre Lagonda) 31.40 sec
2nd: A.L. Pitts (4½-Litre Bentley, s/c) 31.74 sec
3rd: W.G. Smeed (4½-Litre Bentley, s/c) 33.62 sec

Edited by Rupertlt1, 06 January 2011 - 15:37.


#87 Allan Lupton

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 15:55

What you might call a definitive list of that sort of competitor of the day!
I've heard of a lot of them of course, but only actually knew about five - three of 'em in Lancias and none with us any more.

#88 Rupertlt1

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 18:15

What you might call a definitive list of that sort of competitor of the day!
I've heard of a lot of them of course, but only actually knew about five - three of 'em in Lancias and none with us any more.


This was the first hillclimb at Firle but strangely the programme seems to have photographs of what I take to be cars on the course at Firle, which I think must be of a test, part of the Eastbourne Rally earlier in the year. They are just blacked out blotches on my copy - but the captions are:

Bob Freeman-Wright's 4½ litre Lagonda Rapide

E. Seal's Lancia Lambda

T.H. Stewart's Aston-Martin

Edited by Rupertlt1, 06 January 2011 - 18:16.


#89 Simon Taylor

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 21:12

So the question is who was Martin Litchfield - Patrick Lichfield in light disguise - or someone else altogether?
[/quote]

Not Martin Litchfield, but Mark Litchfield. Nothing at all to do with Patrick Lichfield.

I remember him well from the mid-1960s: a very pleasant, wealthy young man who (I think) bought his Cobra new, although my memory may be faulty on this. It was a standard road car, what we would now call a Mk II - ie the early leaf-spring 4.7-litre, in UK rhd spec, but with the later rack and pinion steering. He did a few club events with it, sprints and the like, and I remember after a sprint at Brands Hatch in around 1965 or 66, when I first had my AC Ace 2.6, going with him to his parents' rather grand Kent home for a drink. I also remember an AC Owners' Club team of Cobras doing the Silverstone Six Hour relay race in 1966: the team consisted of Nick Granville-Smith, Lord Cross, Chris Lawrence (not the Morgan one), Oliver Harris and Mark.

His car was painted "rouge irise" - a standard AC colour then, and quite popular for UK market Cobras, a metallic maroon a bit lighter or redder than the later Broadspeed team colour. I don't have the Cobra registers by me at the moment, so I can't check the registration number, but the original owners of these cars are well documented. I suspect that Mark's car and Patrick Lichfield's car had nothing to do with each other, but a glance at the register will clarify this.

#90 Rupertlt1

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 21:56

So the question is who was Martin Litchfield - Patrick Lichfield in light disguise - or someone else altogether?

Not Martin Litchfield, but Mark Litchfield. Nothing at all to do with Patrick Lichfield.


Simon - Thanks for coming to the aid of the party. A Colin Taylor (no relation I take it) writing in Autosport said: "The over 2,500 cc GT class saw yet another record, Martin Litchfield and his AC Cobra doing the Honours." The record-setting time of 25.0 secs suggests a modified car. So what car was it?

I've written to Ned Scudder who I hope will consult the register. We've been sorting out the Dante Duce Cobra, CSX2345, from the 1964 Brighton Speed Trials.

P.S. Just seen this: http://www.race-cars...mer03_LoRes.pdf

P.P.S. Another ambition is to try and sort out the record holders for the classes in perpetuity. Bidding starts here.

Edited by Rupertlt1, 06 January 2011 - 22:15.


#91 bradbury west

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 00:04

Not Martin Litchfield, but Mark Litchfield.


Who by 1971 was running one of a pair of JDM engined Crossle 20Fs in FFord with John Trevelyan, occasionally in the Johnson Wax Euro series, as well as in FF1600 events over here.
Roger Lund

#92 Rupertlt1

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 15:52

Who by 1971 was running one of a pair of JDM engined Crossle 20Fs in FFord with John Trevelyan, occasionally in the Johnson Wax Euro series, as well as in FF1600 events over here.
Roger Lund



I've spoken to Mark Litchfield on the phone and he tells me the following re his A.C. Cobra, [my notes in square brackets]:

Mark was the second owner of CLH959B [chassis number COB6046]. He bought the car second-hand for £1,800 from H.R. Owen. The car had about 4,000 miles on the clock, having had one lady owner (name not known). The car would have been about £4,000 when new.
[The car AFAIK was not owned by Patrick Lichfield.]
He drove the car on the road in standard form, with a single four-barrel carburetter. The car had wire wheels and he fitted slicks for racing, which were mounted by a local garage.
By mid-1967 he was not using the car and he sold it in the spring of 1968 to Richard Taft for £1,250.
He raced the car at Firle twice - in 1966 and 1967. He didn't get out of second gear at Firle, which was a tricky course as the finish was not clearly marked and the space for slowing down was very short. [The question remains is he the Class 9 record-holder in perpetuity with a time of 25.0 sec on May 28, 1966?]
The car ran in the Six-Hour relay at Silverstone in 1966 with five Cobras and Dickie Bird in an A.C. Bristol, the sixth car in the team, being the 1958 Le Mans car. Among the drivers were Jeremy Nightingale and Nick Granville-Smith. Mark ran the car at a Lydden Sprint in 1967 where he experienced oil surge.

P.S. From Mark Litchfield: "The Cobra - bought in spring 1966. HR Owen were for very many years on Onslow Square just opposite South Ken tube station in the West End, an up-market motor dealer, mostly Rollers & the like. Nowadays I think they go more for Ferraris & Lambos etc. I guess the lady who had owned the Cobra had taken something very smart from them and they thought they would take the Cobra in part-ex."

Edited by Rupertlt1, 11 January 2011 - 20:27.


#93 Rupertlt1

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 22:10

Firle Hill Climb track map:

Posted Image

Many thanks to Mark Litchfield.

Edited by Rupertlt1, 30 January 2011 - 22:17.


#94 Garsted

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 23:29

Hi Rupert, a former owner of my Lotus Seven reckons that in 1967 he got the Firle class record for Sports Racing Cars up to 1300cc , so I guess that made him a class winner on the day. I don't know the time, or the date but could maybe find out if this is of interest to you.

Steve

#95 Rupertlt1

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 00:15

Hi Rupert, a former owner of my Lotus Seven reckons that in 1967 he got the Firle class record for Sports Racing Cars up to 1300cc , so I guess that made him a class winner on the day. I don't know the time, or the date but could maybe find out if this is of interest to you.

Steve


Thanks. It certainly is of interest. It would be good to get all the class records by the end of 1967, as they still stand today! Any pictures? RGDS RLT


#96 Rupertlt1

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 17:17

Thanks. It certainly is of interest. It would be good to get all the class records by the end of 1967, as they still stand today! Any pictures? RGDS RLT

Firle meeting report, August 27, 1967, (Motoring News):

Posted Image

Thanks to Garsted.

Edited by Rupertlt1, 12 February 2011 - 18:21.


#97 RS2000

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 17:44

I see Roy Edwards in his (autocross/rallycross or rally - he had 2 then) Cooper S is mentioned. He should be contactable via TonHire (Tonbridge?) (TonTyres at the time).
Not sure where 1347cc comes from though...1340 maybe!

Edited by RS2000, 12 February 2011 - 17:47.


#98 Thundersport

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 18:26

I see Roy Edwards in his (autocross/rallycross or rally - he had 2 then) Cooper S is mentioned. He should be contactable via TonHire (Tonbridge?) (TonTyres at the time).
Not sure where 1347cc comes from though...1340 maybe!

Roy was out at the Brands Rally stages a couple of weeks ago. Tonhire is in Paddock Wood 01892 836155.

#99 Rupertlt1

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Posted 08 March 2011 - 14:41

Still looking for a report of the final meeting at Firle, Bentley Drivers' Club, September 17, 1967?


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#100 RAP

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 10:04

Firle Records
The final meeting was the Bentley DC 17 Sept 67 where BTD was set by Mike Barker (Alton Jaguar) 25.71”.
However the BDC used completely different classes to the BARC and can effectively be ignored unless someone is inclined to discover the records on their classes. For BARC the final meeting was 27 August 67 and using the records shown in the programme plus the results on the day we can come up with these as the final records [BARC].

Normal & Improved Production Touring
850cc J R Harmer (Yarbspeed Mini) 29.84” 27/8/67
1000cc Colin Rogers [or Rodgers] (Austin Cooper S) 27.69” 27/8/67
1300cc R J Powell (Morris Cooper S) 27.37” 27/8/67
1500cc R Edwards (Austin Cooper S 1347cc) 26.53” 27/8/67
Over 1500cc Alan Mussard (Anglia 1560cc) 27.23” 27/8/67
Special Touring and GT
1000cc J F Holford (Turner) 27.99” 4/10/64
1300cc John Bloomfield (Diva GT) 27.31” 14/7/63
2500cc Maurice Fallek (Lotus Elan) 25.22” 29/5/66
Over 2500cc Mark Litchfield (Cobra) 25.00” 29/5/66
Sports Racing
1000cc Cameron Weller (Lotus 7) 26.60 27/8/67
1600cc Eddie Crocker (Lotus 7) 24.36” 29/8/65
Over 1600cc John Barnes (Elva VII) 24.09” 29/5/66
Racing
500cc John Horrex (Cooper) 26.29” 31/5/64
1100cc David McDougall (Cooper T72) & Dr R Willoughby (Cooper VI JAP) 25.24” 27/8/67
Over 1100cc David Good (BRM) 22.78” 28/5/67

NB as is customary, times set in the top ten run off are not counted towards class records. Were one to do so McDougall improved his time to 25.21"
RAPage

Edited by RAP, 09 March 2011 - 10:06.