76 replies to this topic

[MarkE21]

I am trying to research the old BMW County Championship from 1979/80 and would be grateful for any help you can offer? I am seeking photos, stories, video footage etc. I am also keen to find out all I can about the cars and the BMW / TWR connection. Any info, no matter how small, would be much appreciated.

[Alan Cox]

Try a BB search, Mark. The championship has been mentioned on numerous threads, including this one:
http://forums.autosp...p;#entry2248991

Some of the photos have disappeared, so I repost them here

Tony Dron, Tiff Needell and Win Percy 1979

Martin Brundle 1980

Stuart Graham and Win Percy 1979

Edited by Alan Cox, 13 October 2010 - 09:21.

[MarkE21]

Try a BB search, Mark. The championship has been mentioned on numerous threads, including this one:
http://forums.autosp...p;#entry2248991

Some of the photos have disappeared, so I repost them here

Thank you so much.

[Bloggsworth]

I'm sure I recall seeing Mansell driving in the series at Silverstone, I may have pictures, I'll check.

[MarkE21]

Great - thank you.

[s2driver]

Martin Brundle raced for Norfolk - at the same time as racing in FF2000. I think that there were 12 counties represented. Tiff needell had a go and I think that David Sears was one of the championship winners. Struggling a bit for photos as the Mrs s2d's quest for tidiness has left all my autosports and Motor Sports in a storage unit 15 mins drive away.....

[JtP1]

Like the driver who won a race without actually holding an RACMSA racing licience?

Edited by JtP1, 16 October 2010 - 01:27.

[Simon Arron]

The Lodge Corner photo in the first post is one of my mine - copied, I assume, from the British club racing picture thread. Moments later the cars of Martin Brundle and Barrie Williams were strewn across the circuit at Deer Leap. Martin insists it was all Tiff Needell's fault...

[MarkE21]

I really appreciate the effort in responding guys. Thank you.

I managed to mail Tiff Needell who said he had fond memories of the series and that he would look out some old photos next time he was in the loft. He also remembers throwing away the lead on the final lap at Thruxton?

[jackal]

Hello

I am sure I remember jonathon palmer driving too.

Carl

[Phil Rainford]

John Bright drove the Lancashire car


PAR

[MCS]

John Bright drove the Lancashire car


PAR

Really? How odd, as somebody from Leicestershire - don't remember that. Was there nobody suitable available from Lancashire?

I saw the series a couple of times and it was absolutely idiotic - complete carnage. I can still recall the damaged cars being returned to the Oulton Park paddock after one race.

[Phil Rainford]

Really? How odd, as somebody from Leicestershire - don't remember that. Was there nobody suitable available from Lancashire?

I always found that strange.....Jim Crawford would have been my choice or of course Brian Redman


PAR

[Simon Arron]

Jim Crawford would have been my choice or, of course, Brian Redman...

Not Janet McPherson, then?

Here are a couple more from the Oulton race featured in the opening post...

The carnage of which Mark Scanlon speaks. Martin Brundle's car is closest to the camera, Barrie Williams is in the background and Tiff Needell has scarpered, presumably on his way to sticking Nigel Mansell in the wall at Donington Park about 14 years later...


Rare shot of County Championship contenders not crashing. For which county did well-known Englishman, erm, Brian Muir sometimes drive?

[Bill Becketts]

Didn't Nigel Mansell win a BMW County race once.......his first one since racing Formula Fords if I remember correctly

[Alan Cox]

Rare shot of County Championship contenders not crashing. For which county did well-known Englishman, erm, Brian Muir sometimes drive?

It was Kent, probably twinned with New South Wales. It always puzzled me why local Honda dealer from nearby Aston, Stuart Graham, drove for Berkshire.

[paulsenna1]

Well known Englishman Dieter Quester also did one of the Oulton races.

[PMac]

Well known Englishman Dieter Quester also did one of the Oulton races.

I seem to recall that Tim Stock drove for Suffolk. As he was a Suffolk-based BMW dealer, he was a shoe-in.

[Alan Cox]

I saw the series a couple of times and it was absolutely idiotic - complete carnage.

In a sense it was a precursor to the modern contact sport that is BSCC racing.

[Alan Cox]

Good Friday Oulton Park 1980

Martin Brundle leads lap 1 from Philip Bullman and Kent's Brian Muir

Stuart McCrudden with Philip Bullman on his outside

Brian Muir

Derek Bell - Sussex

The much-missed Geoff Friswell

'Yogi' Muir again

Edited by Alan Cox, 14 October 2010 - 15:01.

[Phil Rainford]

Fantastic stuff Alan

Does anyone recall what the actual selection process was for the drivers?


PAR

[nmansellfan]

Ah the E21 BMW 323i. Tail happy enough with 143 horses in the road car, let alone the 170 plus that i've read the County Championship cars had... I test drove an E21 320 (6cyl but no fuel injection, 120bhp) when looking for my second car, and even that was the kind of vehicle that made you drive it with respect, lest it bite you on the ass. In the end I bought my friends E30 325i which had around the same horsepower as the County Championship E21 323i's, and that was a handful, but was one of the best cars I ever owned.

Who prepared the County cars? Was it the representing dealer for each car? They must have kept the spares dept. working 24/7 importing new panels!

Somewhere i have a 1982 Autosport which reviews a TWR modified E21 '335i', using the engine out of the 7 series at the time. That had 218bhp, which is low compared to the horsepower you can find in some hot hatches these days but it was staggering 28 years ago.

[Pullman99]

Well known Englishman Dieter Quester also did one of the Oulton races.

And famous West Countryman Hans Stuck (at Donington I think) too. Given that level of talent on the grid, all trying to occupy the same piece of tarmac at the same time, I was always amazed in the few races that I saw that they managed to complete the first lap! Does anyone recall that the cars were transported using normal double-deck road car transporters too?

Edited by Pullman99, 14 October 2010 - 16:13.

[Alan Cox]

Does anyone recall what the actual selection process was for the drivers?

Who prepared the County cars? Was it the representing dealer for each car? They must have kept the spares dept. working 24/7 importing new panels.

Your queries may be answered in the attached programme note

How many of you still have your BMW county scarf?

[alansart]

Ah the E21 BMW 323i. Tail happy enough with 143 horses in the road car, let alone the 170 plus that i've read the County Championship cars had... I test drove an E21 320 (6cyl but no fuel injection, 120bhp) when looking for my second car, and even that was the kind of vehicle that made you drive it with respect, lest it bite you on the ass. In the end I bought my friends E30 325i which had around the same horsepower as the County Championship E21 323i's, and that was a handful, but was one of the best cars I ever owned.

I had a 79 323i (6cyl with fuel injection). A brilliant car if a bit tail happy, but it had a lovely engine. You could put a glass of water on top of the rocker box, give it some revs and not spill a drop

Edited by alansart, 14 October 2010 - 18:39.

[Phil Rainford]

Your queries may be answered in the attached programme note

Thanks Alan

BMW's PR Dept must have had a premonition of what was going to happen in the races

" Battle commences today "


PAR

Edited by Phil Rainford, 14 October 2010 - 18:45.

[Alan Cox]

Really? How odd, as somebody from Leicestershire - don't remember that. Was there nobody suitable available from Lancashire?

Some of you may also recall the Porsche 924 championship with cars entered by Porsche dealers. Strangely, John Bright was selected to drive for the Manchester Porsche dealers, Ian Anthony. Perhaps he was a closet Lancastrian.

[MCS]

Some of you may also recall the Porsche 924 championship with cars entered by Porsche dealers. Strangely, John Bright was selected to drive for the Manchester Porsche dealers, Ian Anthony. Perhaps he was a closet Lancastrian.

Well the plot thickens then, Alan.

Firstly, I thought Ian Anthony was a BMW dealer - maybe they were/are as well.

But why John Bright for Lancashire? Doesn't make sense - but then the whole BMW County Championship didn't really, did it? e.g. Geoff Friswell/Buckinghamshire, Stuart Graham/Berkshire, Brian Muir/Kent, etc., etc...

Still, what fun, not (imo).

Edited by MCS, 14 October 2010 - 19:14.

[alansart]

But why John Bright for Lancashire?

He did run a team with a well known Lancastrian - if that counts

[MarkE21]

Ah the E21 BMW 323i. Tail happy enough with 143 horses in the road car, let alone the 170 plus that i've read the County Championship cars had... I test drove an E21 320 (6cyl but no fuel injection, 120bhp) when looking for my second car, and even that was the kind of vehicle that made you drive it with respect, lest it bite you on the ass. In the end I bought my friends E30 325i which had around the same horsepower as the County Championship E21 323i's, and that was a handful, but was one of the best cars I ever owned.

Who prepared the County cars? Was it the representing dealer for each car? They must have kept the spares dept. working 24/7 importing new panels!

Somewhere i have a 1982 Autosport which reviews a TWR modified E21 '335i', using the engine out of the 7 series at the time. That had 218bhp, which is low compared to the horsepower you can find in some hot hatches these days but it was staggering 28 years ago.

I actually own one of the three TWR built 335's although mine came with 240bhp and can crack 60 in 5 seconds. I also drive a modified 323 as my daily car which has a 2.7, coilover suspension etc and 200bhp and 208ft/lbs of torque. I'll post some photos once I get home. I have just taken over the e21 section of the BMW Car Club hence the unhealthy interest in all things E21.

Edited by MarkE21, 14 October 2010 - 21:28.

[MarkE21]

This is my daily driver. It's got Wilwoods, coilovers, split rims etc etc. 200bhp and great fun to drive too. Probably cost about the same as a new Fiesta?



This is the TWR 335 as I recently found it. It's actually 100% free of rust and I aim to have it get it's first MOT in 22 years by January.





I found this lot at an autojumble a couple of months ago. The badge is rusty but I just bought a mint one of ebay for 99p. I'm still looking for the wooly hat, scarf and unbrella though!

[john winfield]

Mark,
I don't know whether your BMW CC paperwork confirms this but I think Hugo Tippet (Clubman racer, Aylesbury Tappet, Gordon Spice, Piranha Ignition etc) helped organise and run the BMWs for TWR. Any mention of him that you can see?
John

[nmansellfan]

Very nice machines both, Mark! Yes thats the review I read. 240BHP, what a Q-car! I haven't seen a Henna Red BMW for years either...

I wonder what happened to the County cars after the series finished?

[MarkE21]

I'll have a look and see?

Thanks for the positive comments about the cars. The orange one is actually a VW orange as opposed to Henna but it suits it well. It goes OK too as this M3 owner found out at Santa Pod last month...



Do you think it's possible there could be some video footage of the County Championship? I'd love to see that.

Edited by MarkE21, 16 October 2010 - 21:10.

[Mallory Dan]

He did run a team with a well known Lancastrian - if that counts

Brian Redman?

[alansart]

Brian Redman?

[Simon Arron]

The graphics for the Redman Bright F3000 truck were designed in my living room, by Mrs A...

[Gatmo]

Very bold the truck looked too, Simon. The red and white rumblestrip really stood out well.

The reason i remember it is that Redman/Bright's truck came to Mallory a few years back with an F3000 painted in two different shades of green so that Jaguar F1 personnel could evaluate how the different colour green's looked through TV cameras. Mark Stewart Productions filmed the car which was driven by Martin O'Connell. As the car was painted differently on each side it had to be driven around the track in both directions, believe me, the run down from the Hairpin to the Esses looked hairy.....

Back on topic, i had the County Championship badge too plus a couple of front spoilers from the cars. At the end of each meeting the TWR staff were seen to be snapping any damaged spoilers in half and chucking them in the bin. They looked great hanging in the family shed after a quick fix. From memory we had Notts and Herts spoilers hanging from the rafters

[Mallory Dan]

The graphics for the Redman Bright F3000 truck were designed in my living room, by Mrs A...

Any pics of it, SA?

[Simon Arron]

Somewhere, yes, but I haven't brought any with me to Gatwick...

[MarkE21]

Mark,
I don't know whether your BMW CC paperwork confirms this but I think Hugo Tippet (Clubman racer, Aylesbury Tappet, Gordon Spice, Piranha Ignition etc) helped organise and run the BMWs for TWR. Any mention of him that you can see?
John

Not that I can see.

Wiltshire drivers were Peter Lovett & John Morrison

Nottinghamshire were Frank Sytner & Doug Bassett

Essex were Stuart Cole and Stuart McCrudden

Norfolk were Patrick Neve and Martin Brundle

London were Tony Dron and Roger Bell

Kent were Brian Muir & Nick Whiting

Grampian were Andrew Jeffrey and Bob Leckie ( Bob bought a road going 323 to get experience!! )

Sussex were Andy Rouse and Derek Bell

Lancashire were Jock Robertson and Alan Minshaw

Western Counties were Win Percy, Norman Dickson & Philip Bullman

Gloucestershire were Barrie Williams, Nigel Mansell and Mike Freeman

Hertfordshire were Tiff Needell & Geoff Friswell

Surrey had Jeff Allam & Rex Greenslade

[Mallory Dan]

Jock Robertson for Lancs!!! And why no Yorkshire team, the biggest and best county......

[Phil Rainford]

Jock Robertson for Lancs!!! And why no Yorkshire team, the biggest and best county......

Were there any BMW Dealers in Yorkshire at that time?


PAR

[Alan Cox]

... probably because the Yorkshire BMW dealer couldn't be persuaded to part with a few bob, Dan.

Here are two shots from inside the County Championship marquee, where all of the cars were assembled and fettled.

Not quite sure whether Farrah Fawcett-Majors ever wangled a drive in the County Championship.

[MarkE21]

I must admit, I quite fancy building a replica County Car 323i and doing a few hillclimb and sprint events.

I'm still searching for some film footage too. I'm too young to remember ( I don't get to say that often! ) but was it ever on Grandstand or anything?

Edited by MarkE21, 19 October 2010 - 17:17.

[Phil Rainford]

I must admit, I quite fancy building a replica County Car 323i and doing a few hillclimb and sprint events.

I'm still searching for some film footage too. I'm too young to remember ( I don't get to say that often! ) but was it ever on Grandstand or anything?

The BBC use to cover the "Race of Champions" which according to Alan's programme notes was the meeting of the first round of the series?


PAR

* Just noticed someone has downloaded the 79 F1 race onto You Tube *

Edited by Phil Rainford, 19 October 2010 - 17:39.

[MarkE21]

The BBC use to cover the "Race of Champions" which according to Alan's programme notes was the meeting of the first round of the series?


PAR

* Just noticed someone has downloaded the 79 F1 race onto You Tube *

Thanks, I'll take a look.

As for Farrah...

[MarkE21]

Spent a most enjoyable couple of hours watching the 79 F1 race from Brands last night. You can make out a few e21's parked in the paddock too.

Hopefully, I have managed to find someone who still has a few parts including a County Car spoiler or two. Maybe I can build a replica after all?

[MarkE21]

Well I managed to find a badge but the wooly hat and rosette still elude me.



I think I'm going to have to admit defeat on the film footage tho!

[Gregor Marshall]

The best I can do on footage is the '82 Willhire with my late Dad and John Clark driving an ex-County car but not sure which County - was painted plain white by then and it had just been sitting at John's doing nothing since the County championship had finished.
I had a quick chat with John at the Spa 6 hour recently but it was too wet to talk out in the open for long!!