76 replies to this topic

[MarkE21]

The best I can do on footage is the '82 Willhire with my late Dad and John Clark driving an ex-County car but not sure which County - was painted plain white by then and it had just been sitting at John's doing nothing since the County championship had finished.
I had a quick chat with John at the Spa 6 hour recently but it was too wet to talk out in the open for long!!

That would be great - thank you!

[IanMH]

July 20th 1980 Ingliston, scans of the programmes, hope there is no problem with copyright,





I remember being parked near Barry and Stephanie in the cowsheds with my old FF and Hillman Hunter tow-car!

Cheers Ian

[MarkE21]

@ Gregor Marshall - I don't suppose your footage is available on YouTube?

Thanks for that Ian. I didn't realise Barry Sheene ever raced a 323! I was fortunate enough to meet him when I worked for Mazda as the press office used to loan him cars when he came to the UK. He was always a bit of a hero of mine when I was a boy. Really nice guy.

[lesmo]

Mark,
I don't know whether your BMW CC paperwork confirms this but I think Hugo Tippet (Clubman racer, Aylesbury Tappet, Gordon Spice, Piranha Ignition etc) helped organise and run the BMWs for TWR. Any mention of him that you can see?
John

Yes, my late good friend Hugo Tippet was very much involved in organising the preparation of the cars for this series. I remember he said they would turn up with two transporters full of undamaged cars and often used all the spares before the day was over. He had to have stern words with one or two of the drivers about their antics on track, emphasizing that they might not be invited to drive again if they didn't behave better. Usually they had at least a week between races to restore any damage, but once there were two races on consecutive days (Brands 26 Aug, Mallory 27 Aug, I think) which had him tearing his hair out. H left TWR in 1986 to join Lotus Engineering. He died in 2001.

[arttidesco]

Spent a most enjoyable couple of hours watching the 79 F1 race from Brands last night. You can make out a few e21's parked in the paddock too.

Hopefully, I have managed to find someone who still has a few parts including a County Car spoiler or two. Maybe I can build a replica after all?

I know photographs are not certain proof of the truth, but I am pretty sure I was taking dodgy snaps of the 1979 British GP at Silverstone ?

[john winfield]

Yes, my late good friend Hugo Tippet was very much involved in organising the preparation of the cars for this series. I remember he said they would turn up with two transporters full of undamaged cars and often used all the spares before the day was over. He had to have stern words with one or two of the drivers about their antics on track, emphasizing that they might not be invited to drive again if they didn't behave better. Usually they had at least a week between races to restore any damage, but once there were two races on consecutive days (Brands 26 Aug, Mallory 27 Aug, I think) which had him tearing his hair out. H left TWR in 1986 to join Lotus Engineering. He died in 2001.

Lesmo,
Thanks very much for this. Several of us from the Gordon Spice days (I was only a bit player, but I worked for HT when a student) were very saddened to learn of Hugo's death. It's interesting to hear more about him, and his career, but apologies to thread readers for going rather OT. Having said that, the last time I met him was in the late 1970s/ early 1980s, he was holding a clipboard shepherding various cars in the 'club straight' paddock at Silverstone. This must have been in his TWR BMW days.
John

[MarkE21]

Well I managed to put together a replica of a County Race car although I still have a few detail changes to make. A swap to twin headlights being the most obvious one. I wish to use a period livery though and wondered if anyone might have a picture or two of one of the original red cars?

[Alan Cox]

I wish to use a period livery though and wondered if anyone might have a picture or two of one of the original red cars?

From earlier in this thread, Mark

[MarkE21]

From earlier in this thread, Mark

I should have gone to Spec Savers!

Thanks Alan.

[Gatmo]

I've just dug out some old Autosport's with some pull out County Championship centrespreads in them, i find posting pics on here a pain but leave it with me..........

Also, years ago me and my Dad used to have a collection of original County Championship front spoilers in the garden shed, we collected a few of them which had been snapped in two and chucked in the bin at Mallory, unfortunately they eventually ended up in our bin after my Mum got fed up of tripping over them Nelson Piquet's Arno Brastemp Ralt RT1 nosecone also met the same sticky end........

[Alan Cox]

I've just dug out some old Autosport's with some pull out County Championship centrespreads in them, i find posting pics on here a pain but leave it with me..........

Beware of copyright 'issues', Wayne

[Gatmo]

Thanks for that Alan, as i very rarely post pics on here i never gave it a thought.......

I'm sure i had the County Championship rosette and badge combination as well, i'll investigate further.

[MarkE21]

Thanks for that Alan, as i very rarely post pics on here i never gave it a thought.......

I'm sure i had the County Championship rosette and badge combination as well, i'll investigate further.

Wow! It would be great if you have!

If you would rather not risk posting pics here could I get some photocopies instead please? Obviously I will cover any costs.

[southcoast]

I met Martin Brundle at Brands earlier this year and asked him to sign my programme..I mentioned that the last time he signed a programme for me was at Oulton Park when he was driving in the BMW County Championship !

[john aston]

Like virtually every other spec formula the County chapionshipo was duller than dull. But time apparently gives it a lustre it never had in period. Bit like old Vivas- crap in period but 'classics ' now. Some say anyway...

[Alan Cox]

Like virtually every other spec formula the County chapionshipo was duller than dull.

From where I was standing, John (e.g the inside of Old Hall ) , I would have to take issue with you on that point. Not a classic formula by any stretch of the imagination - agreed - but I wouldn't call it dull. It was certainly a few notches higher than Honda CRXs.

[D-Type]

I've just dug out some old Autosport's with some pull out County Championship centrespreads in them, i find posting pics on here a pain but leave it with me..........

Beware of copyright 'issues', Wayne

I do understand copyright issues - if you don't own it don't post it. But does this apply to pictures from Autosport on this site as it belongs to Autosport?

[john aston]

We seem to be a bit paranoid about bloody copyright. If it's your pic which somebody has nicked then I can understand it but - reality check- no-one from Haymarket is going to hit you with an injunction for posting some 30 year old picture of a race series every sane person forgot about 29 years ago...Copyright is only imporatnt if the pictures have a real cash value- and since the advent of the interweb copyright is a bit of a paper tiger for the stuff we like.Post and if somebody doesn't like it I am sure they will ask you nicely to remove it...

[Alan Cox]

Copyright is only imporatnt if the pictures have a real cash value

As you might expect, I beg to differ with you on this point, John. However, let's not get into the copyright debate once again, as it has been discussed here ad nauseam over the years.

[David McKinney]

I do understand copyright issues - if you don't own it don't post it. But does this apply to pictures from Autosport on this site as it belongs to Autosport?

Excellent question, Duncan. I've often wondered the same thing myself

Let's hope someone can provide an answer

[Doug Nye]

Copyright is only significant if the copyright holder considers it to be so. That's when the spaghetti can hit the fan...

DCN

[Gatmo]

I'll be honest, i loved the County Championship and i also thought the Honda CRX's were pretty good sport so what does that say about me?!

[Graham Clayton]

Here is a photo taken just after the start of one of the rounds:

http://www.classiche...torsport-legend

What is the circuit, and can all of the drivers be identified?

[Stephen W]

I do understand copyright issues - if you don't own it don't post it. But does this apply to pictures from Autosport on this site as it belongs to Autosport?

Excellent question, Duncan. I've often wondered the same thing myself

Let's hope someone can provide an answer

I took a lot of photos for Autosport & Motoring News which I sent in as unprocessed film. I did get paid for the ones they printed but the vast majority were never used and worse still never returned to me. I wonder what the copyright situation would be if I posted photos I took that were published in Autosport/Motoring News?

&

[Julian Roberts]

Here is a photo taken just after the start of one of the rounds:

http://www.classiche...torsport-legend

What is the circuit, and can all of the drivers be identified?

Love the photo, which is of course at Paddock Hill Bend, Brands Hatch. Sorry, not a clue on the drivers though.

When they raced in period I viewed them as highly developed and tuned racing cars. Looking at them in the photo now, the merely look like standard 323i's with a spoiler on the front and a wing at the back. Were they more akin to Group 1 or Prodsaloons in terms of development ?

[MarkE21]

Love the photo, which is of course at Paddock Hill Bend, Brands Hatch. Sorry, not a clue on the drivers though.

When they raced in period I viewed them as highly developed and tuned racing cars. Looking at them in the photo now, the merely look like standard 323i's with a spoiler on the front and a wing at the back. Were they more akin to Group 1 or Prodsaloons in terms of development ?

The specification was, as far as I have been able to determine, as follows;

BMW 323i - County Car Specification

* 2.3 litre engine balanced throughout
* Gas flowed cylinder head polished and raised compression to 9.8:1
* Brake tested to deliver 170bhp
* Heavy duty clutch
* Front struts specially rebuilt to TWR Racing settings, with stiffer springs and adjustable abutments.
* Competition rear dampers have adjustable bump and rebound settings with stiffer springs.
* Adjustable front anti roll bar of 24mm fitted in addition to standard one.
* Rear one of 19mm also fitted.
* Limited Slip Differential fitted with reinforced rear crossmember mountings.
* Racing brake pads front and rear have been specially made with additional ventilation to the discs.
* Mahle wheels 6Jx13 are fitted with Dunlop racing tyres.
* Body stripped of all interior trim, fitted with FIA roll cage front and rear, competition high back driving seat, BMW Motorsport steering wheel, four point racing harness, 2.5 kilo FE1301 plubed in extinguishing system, battery cut off switch and reinforced fuel tank.
* Specially made fibreglass bonnet and boot lids fitted. The boot lid carries a rear wing and there is a special racing air dam at the front.
* A special free flow exhaust system is fitted complying with the 1980 RAC noise regulations.

By all accounts some cars were more equal than others. I know there were a few crankshafts that came to light in later years and these would have taken the engine capacity from 2.3 to 2.8. The front wing was an Alpina item extended by 4 inches before a mould was taken. Evidently BMW wanted TWR to use the Motorsport item but Tom Walkinshaw baulked at the cost so made his own. The rear wing was a narrowed 3.0CSL item.

I am told that 1 or 2 of the original cars exists but have been unable to locate them. One is supposed to be in the US but that may just be rumour. I'd really like to see how they mounted the double front ARB's in order to do the same on my own track E21.

[David McKinney]

I took a lot of photos for Autosport & Motoring News which I sent in as unprocessed film. I did get paid for the ones they printed but the vast majority were never used and worse still never returned to me. I wonder what the copyright situation would be if I posted photos I took that were published in Autosport/Motoring News?

The general rule is if they commissioned you to cover the meeting, they own the copyright. If you sent films in on spec, hoping for payment for anything they might use, the copyright's yours