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Why Robert Kubica is arguably the best driver in F1


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#1 korzeniow

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:01

Here's link to the Mark Huges' article on BBC: http://news.bbc.co.u...one/9080455.stm

When taking into consideration the machinery at their disposal, how much they have squeezed from what they have, how few errors have been made, there is a very real case to be made for putting Kubica ahead of all the other drivers this year.

he's similar to Fernando [Kubica's predecessor at Renault] but the area where he's different is he is more intense about it, seems more fully immersed in racing and wanting to be a champion.

When Kubica was a BMW driver he was asked what he would like as a company car and they did not know quite how to react when he replied: "A Mitsubishi Evo 7."


As a fan of Kubica I'm pleased to read this kind of comments. I would like to knew your opinion. Is Kubica the best?

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#2 Clatter

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:05

Good driver, and it would be interesting to see him in a top team, but I don't think he is the best. I'm going to hazard a guess that the top teams feel the same as there hasn't, as yet, been a rush to try and hire him.

#3 Massa

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:07

We said the same when fisichella was brillant with Sauber and Jordan.. We can judge when Kubica will drive for a top team.
Some driver are very good with lower team, because they had no pressure and a team built around them. When they had a bad race, nobody talk about that because everybody is focus about top team race, but when they had a great race everybody say it's a fantastic driver etc...

We have to wait.

Edited by Massa, 12 October 2010 - 08:09.


#4 arknor

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:08

how do we know he isnt beeing flattered by having a slow team mate? is the renault car really as bad as people like to believe? some of his wheel banging this season has been very questionable so i dont know how you can say few errors have been made . . .

#5 thuGG

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:10

Is Kubica the best?


I personaly think there is no best driver in the current field. There are a few top drivers, who can challange for titles given the right car. Every one has it's own strengths and weakneses.
I think Robert is definitely a top driver along with Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, Rosberg, Webber, Button. But who is the best out of them? I don't know. There are many factors influencing a driver, obviously the car is most important, but also tyres (or driving style suited to tyres), good setup and so on.

#6 Lights

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:10

The 'wanting to be champion more than Alonso' comment is a bit far fetched. Alonso was definitely able to score similar results in his years at Renault when the car was somewhat drivable, and he never lost his focus either.

That said, myself I do consider Kubica to be on a similar level as Alonso and Hamilton, but it can't be proven right now. He can't prove himself against his teammate. We don't know how good the Renault really is. If it's as good as a Mercedes, Rosberg is still outscoring him, so why aren't we all praising him?

#7 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:11

It's easy to say Kubica is overperforming in the Renault when we have no yardstick for its capabilities. Some weekends he's quick sometimes he's not. At least in the BMW days you could compare him to Heidfeld.

#8 Cenotaph

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:12

much like 2008, Kubica seems to be the man putting his car where it shouldnt be and that is a very good sign. But we really need to know what he is capable of in a WDC car.

#9 Massa

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:13

It's easy to say Kubica is overperforming in the Renault when we have no yardstick for its capabilities. Some weekends he's quick sometimes he's not. At least in the BMW days you could compare him to Heidfeld.



And Heidfeld beat him in 2007 and 2009...

For me, Rosberg is fantastic since 2009.

#10 korzeniow

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:21

And Heidfeld beat him in 2007 and 2009...

For me, Rosberg is fantastic since 2009.


2007:
- Kubica's rookie year
- lots of mechanical fialures
- favourism of Nick Heidfeld

2009:
- complete dog of a car
- car designed to run KERS, which Kubica couldn't use at all
- Vettel taking out Kubica from Australia GP, Kubica could win thes race
- lots of mechanical failures
- Kubica's blowing-up engines

Even so he is young driver and evolves with the time. You can't consider him as good as in 2007.

#11 zarooch

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:22

give him a ferrari or red bull and i'm damn sure he'll deliver. never doubted him.

#12 thuGG

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:23

And Heidfeld beat him in 2009...

In points yes, in general performance - no. Just take into account taking off by Vettel in Austraila.


#13 korzeniow

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:23

much like 2008, Kubica seems to be the man putting his car where it shouldnt be and that is a very good sign. But we really need to know what he is capable of in a WDC car.


In 2008 he was capable of WDC in not WDC car  ;)

#14 cheapracer

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:25

I posted this earlier today in another thread ...

well, i think you can see who is very fast without having the fastest car, or even a fast car. Kubica doesn´t have the fastest car


Prove it .......


Oh you can't. The Renault may be the fastest car out there, have we actually seen Kubica make a big mistake or some wild slideways moments to verify that he is pushing beyond the car? - we have seen Hamilton, Webber and Vettle do this though.

Does that mean Kubica is so awesome that he is the fastest and mistake free and the other 3 are wild drivers or are they the fastest willing to push 101% beyond bounds while Kubica is only willing to push 99%??

There is no answer to this question, it's in the too hard, too many variables basket.


#15 tifosiMac

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:31

Kubica is one of the best but I would put him on a par with someone like Sebastian Vettel. I don't think he's quite at the level of the Alonso's and Hamilton's of the sport. Its all down to opinion at the end of the day :)

#16 korzeniow

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:37

I posted this earlier today in another thread ...



Prove it .......

Oh you can't
. The Renault may be the fastest car out there, have we actually seen Kubica make a big mistake or some wild slideways moments to verify that he is pushing beyond the car? - we have seen Hamilton, Webber and Vettle do this though.

Does that mean Kubica is so awesome that he is the fastest and mistake free and the other 3 are wild drivers or are they the fastest willing to push 101% beyond bounds while Kubica is only willing to push 99%??

There is no answer to this question, it's in the too hard, too many variables basket.


Come one, don't be so hard on it. We can always use common sense. No one seriulsy consider R30 being better car than RB6, do you really need a proof of that?

As for pushing, Kubica was on gravel at FP, wasn't he? Pushing on the limit doesn't mean to end up on the wall. He just make less mistakes. For example he was pushing in quali at Monaco, he was touching the walls with his front wing. Wasn't he pushing since he didn't end up on the wall?

#17 Mr2s

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:39

The 'wanting to be champion more than Alonso' comment is a bit far fetched. Alonso was definitely able to score similar results in his years at Renault when the car was somewhat drivable, and he never lost his focus either.

That said, myself I do consider Kubica to be on a similar level as Alonso and Hamilton, but it can't be proven right now. He can't prove himself against his teammate. We don't know how good the Renault really is. If it's as good as a Mercedes, Rosberg is still outscoring him, so why aren't we all praising him?


Alonso and hamilton both proved themselves early in their careers to be something special, not just to me, but to those in the paddock. Alonso had open invitations at Brawn and Red Bull. kubica has yet to impress the same people to the same extent, so can't see how he can even be considered to be on the same level. Same level is way over the top IMO

#18 karlth

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:43

Alonso and hamilton both proved themselves early in their careers to be something special, not just to me, but to those in the paddock. Alonso had open invitations at Brawn and Red Bull. kubica has yet to impress the same people to the same extent, so can't see how he can even be considered to be on the same level. Same level is way over the top IMO


Agree. Kubica is though a wonderful driver to watch mostly because of his precise driving.

Hopefully he'll get a stronger teammate next year as Petrov hasn't got a chance against Robert.

#19 DILLIGAF

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:48

One of the best currently in F1? Yes.

The best? Maybe, maybe not, impossible to say yet.

If he is considered the best driver by those inside the F1 paddock, then the best teams will chase him sooner rather than later.

Hurts me to say it being a Webber fan, but IMHO Alonso & Hamilton are the best drivers in F1 today.

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#20 JosTheBoss

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:56

If he's a fan of the Evo, he certainly knows his cars. :)

As for who are the best drivers, Webber himself has been quoted as saying he thinks the best 3 drivers in F1 (excluding himself) are Alonso, Hamilton & Kubica.

Edited by JosTheBoss, 12 October 2010 - 08:57.


#21 Lights

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 09:05

Alonso and hamilton both proved themselves early in their careers to be something special, not just to me, but to those in the paddock. Alonso had open invitations at Brawn and Red Bull. kubica has yet to impress the same people to the same extent, so can't see how he can even be considered to be on the same level. Same level is way over the top IMO

Because it's irrelevant! Don't get this the wrong way, ofcourse it says something. But look at how the teams evaluated Jenson Button pre-2009. Hardly any team wanted him, except Williams. And look what he has achieved in the past two years. And I consider Kubica to have more potential than that.

#22 portago

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 09:14

And Heidfeld beat him in 2007 and 2009...


Heidfeld is the least risk-taking driver of all the grid.

He holds the doubtful record of the most F1 races entered without a win...

Edited by portago, 12 October 2010 - 09:14.


#23 MadYarpen

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 09:23

While I rate him very high, I think it is impossible to say who is the best. There is to many factors influencing performance. So to me it seems much more fair to say someone is between top drivers - and this is the case of hamilton, alonso, also kubica. I'm not trying to say there aren't others. Though they are three I first thought about.

#24 Mr2s

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 09:28

Because it's irrelevant! Don't get this the wrong way, ofcourse it says something. But look at how the teams evaluated Jenson Button pre-2009. Hardly any team wanted him, except Williams. And look what he has achieved in the past two years. And I consider Kubica to have more potential than that.


People have short memories when it comes to Alonso. He used a Minardi to out qualify jenson in a Benetton and was lauded for doing qualifying pace a whole race.
Alonso also got 3 podiums in the first 5 races for only the 4th best team, the year after being test driver.
Kubica hasn't done anything of the sort.
AFAIC Alonso is the only driver in recent history to win titles in non dominant cars.

Edited by Mr2s, 12 October 2010 - 09:29.


#25 Massa

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 09:29

Heidfeld is the least risk-taking driver of all the grid.

He holds the doubtful record of the most F1 races entered without a win...



Because you think he can win a race with a prost, a williams during Ferrari winning time, or a BMW when Ferrari and Mclaren was faster ?

Kubica won at Canada because of Hamilton move on Raikkonen..

#26 TT6

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 09:33

He's better than Petrov and because of his racing spirit and overtaking capability I concider him better than Heidfeld. The latter puts him in the upper midfield, at least.

To know if he's really among the best out there he should be paired with Hamilton, Alonso or Vettel. Pairing him with Button or Webber might give a good hint of the matter too. For now I don't know if Kubica is better than Rosberg - he too should be paired with a more current top driver.

I would compare the situation of Kubica with Kovalainen a few years back. Everything pointed to a fact that he might have a potential, the potential was noticed by McLaren and at there he was exposed. Kovalainen now belongs to good solid midfield. Sadly I think being in a midfield doesn't guarantee a seat in the midfield. A promise of being among the best is the ticket. Kubica's still got the ticket.


#27 tifosiMac

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 09:35

Hurts me to say it being a Webber fan, but IMHO Alonso & Hamilton are the best drivers in F1 today.

There are fans who dislike Alonso and fans that dislike Hamilton, but what you won't find are many who can say they are not exciting and excellent within their field.

#28 portago

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 09:36

Because you think he can win a race with a prost, a williams during Ferrari winning time, or a BMW when Ferrari and Mclaren was faster ?

Kubica won at Canada because of Hamilton move on Raikkonen..



Too many GPs entered, too many excuses.

There are loads of drivers who have won a GP in non-dominant cars. Heidfield is not one of those.

#29 velgajski1

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 09:38

Alonso & Hamilton are certianly better.

Kubica is for me someone very similar to Button, in a top car he would probably crush the opposition, but even in a slightly inferior machinery he would have severe problems. Petrov makes Kubica look good this season, I'd like to see how would Kubica fare against Rosberg/Webber/Hamilton/Alonso bunch.

#30 thuGG

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 09:40

... but even in a slightly inferior machinery he would have severe problems.


He was leading the chamionchip after 7 races in 2008 in "slightly inferior machinery", he was in contention for the WDC till the last races in 2008 in "slightly inferior machinery", he is getting podiums right now in "slightly inferior machinery".

#31 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 09:41

Too many GPs entered, too many excuses.

There are loads of drivers who have won a GP in non-dominant cars. Heidfield is not one of those.


We need to drop this 'dominant car' nonsense. Most race winners, except for the flukey wins, have competitive cars. That's what you need.

#32 Massa

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 09:48

Too many GPs entered, too many excuses.

There are loads of drivers who have won a GP in non-dominant cars. Heidfield is not one of those.


No excuse, that a fact. Kovalainen is crap driver because he didn't won a GP this year ?

Nobody can win a GP with a Prost, or a Sauber or Jordan in 2000-2005 period ( Brazil 2003 is an exception, or same with Hill with his Arrows at Budapest 1997 even if i didn't won ) or with a Williams in 2005. That's all

Edited by Massa, 12 October 2010 - 09:50.


#33 onemoresolo

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 09:50

2007:
- Kubica's rookie year
- lots of mechanical fialures
- favourism of Nick Heidfeld

2009:
- complete dog of a car
- car designed to run KERS, which Kubica couldn't use at all
- Vettel taking out Kubica from Australia GP, Kubica could win thes race
- lots of mechanical failures
- Kubica's blowing-up engines

Even so he is young driver and evolves with the time. You can't consider him as good as in 2007.


I think that's stretching it a little...;)

#34 cheapracer

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 09:51

Come one, don't be so hard on it. We can always use common sense. No one seriulsy consider R30 being better car than RB6, do you really need a proof of that?

As for pushing, Kubica was on gravel at FP, wasn't he? Pushing on the limit doesn't mean to end up on the wall. He just make less mistakes. For example he was pushing in quali at Monaco, he was touching the walls with his front wing. Wasn't he pushing since he didn't end up on the wall?


You mean the car that just qualified 2nd in the last race splitting the 2 RBR's caouldn't possibly be considered as good and so must be the driver?Read Ross's comment above.

Theres drivers mistakes as well as pushing too hard.


#35 cheapracer

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 09:52

No excuse, that a fact. Kovalainen is crap driver because he didn't won a GP this year ?


No he's crap because we saw what he couldn't do in the McLaren, a winning car.


#36 trogggy

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 09:56

You mean the car that just qualified 2nd in the last race splitting the 2 RBR's caouldn't possibly be considered as good and so must be the driver?Read Ross's comment above.

Third on the grid, third by quite a margin.

#37 BenettonB192

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 10:02

Good driver but he's not what his fans think he is. He's flattered this year by a bad team mate and a car that performs better then expected before the season.

That said i think he could fight for the championship in the best car just like some other drivers (see Button, Webber, Massa).



#38 goldenboy

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 10:12

I rate him as a top tier driver. But I hate it when fans of a driver start threads about "why they are the best" or "why other driver is shit." Just call it Robert Kubica thread :)

#39 byronbolscher

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 10:17

I know a driver who actually was a teammate of Robert in his earlier days of his career, and I'm sure if I tell you what he told me, you won't like Kubica as much anymore, he was kind of a spoiled brat back then, getting the full support of Renault in a Renault backed series, best engines, new chassis and engines alot more often then other drivers.

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#40 marcoferrari

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 10:19

We said the same when fisichella was brillant with Sauber and Jordan.. We can judge when Kubica will drive for a top team.
Some driver are very good with lower team, because they had no pressure and a team built around them. When they had a bad race, nobody talk about that because everybody is focus about top team race, but when they had a great race everybody say it's a fantastic driver etc...

We have to wait.


Not only Fisi, but also Rubens is/was excellent with midfield cars doing sometimes miracles with them... So, it is too early to judge how good Robert really is...

#41 skinnyman

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 10:27

Not really, Petrov is no benchmark, and Renault surely isn't a dog like some people think, it was faster than McLaren and Ferrari in multiple races this season, and overall better than Merc.

#42 thuGG

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 10:30

getting the full support of Renault in a Renault backed series


Yes, and then they dumped him from Renault Yound Drivers programme. That's how they supported him.

#43 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 10:32

I believe they dumped him because he failed to qualify for the next stage? Renault were pretty strict with results and had a high turnover during that period.

#44 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 10:33

Here's link to the Mark Huges' article on BBC: http://news.bbc.co.u...one/9080455.stm As a fan of Kubica I'm pleased to read this kind of comments. I would like to knew your opinion. Is Kubica the best?


He's good, but the best? From my perspective, he never put Heidfeld to the sword during his time at BMW and neither did he show he had the consistent measure of Heidfeld, like Alonso has over Massa, or Hamilton over Button. Plus Petrov is just a pay driver and it's difficult to judge just how competitive the R30 is. So the jury is still out for me.

Edited by The Ragged Edge, 12 October 2010 - 10:35.


#45 Simon Says

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 10:35

Here's link to the Mark Huges' article on BBC: http://news.bbc.co.u...one/9080455.stm





As a fan of Kubica I'm pleased to read this kind of comments. I would like to knew your opinion. Is Kubica the best?


He's not the best driver in F1. He's never raced against a top driver yet so he's still unproven.

But he's doing amazing things in his Renault, like outqualifying Alonso ( again ) :lol:

#46 velgajski1

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 10:36

He was leading the chamionchip after 7 races in 2008 in "slightly inferior machinery", he was in contention for the WDC till the last races in 2008 in "slightly inferior machinery", he is getting podiums right now in "slightly inferior machinery".


My opinion is that in 2008. BMW was not far behind McLaren until very end of season, its just that Hamilton/Alonso get 100% of speed out of car which in my opinion isn't same with Kubica.
Until Kubica beats one of those guys in same machinery or at least wins the title I'll consider him a bit below Alonso and Hamilton.



#47 TURU

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 10:59

I'm sure Kubica is right up there with Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel, but it is impossible to tell who is actually the best since they all are driving different cars. I think many people underestimate Robert and I hope he will prove them wrong soon. All he needs is a car which will allow him to that.

#48 Curt000

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 11:00

Load of rubbish!!

#49 zawisza

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 11:03

Question to the one who started the thread:

Why, oh, why? :mad:

EDIT: :mad: :mad:

Edited by zawisza, 12 October 2010 - 11:05.


#50 swiniodzik

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 11:05

Kubica has been the only non-Red Bull driver to always qualify in the top ten so far this season, also having a look at the average qualifying positions this year:

Lewis Hamilton 5.50
Robert Kubica 6.62
Jenson Button 6.75

clearly shows that the Renault is a comparable car to the McLaren this year but Kubica is under-performing in the races. Mark Hughes is a fanboy obviously when he compares Kubica to Alonso or Hamilton. I mean, he couldn't even out-score Heidfeld in the same car. Can you imagine Alonso ever going head-to-head points-wise with, say, Trulli in one team, or Hamilton with Button?