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Russian Grand Prix in Sochi from 2014


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#1 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 07:18

This has come up a couple of times across various threads in the past few days since Joe Saward ran an article on Vitaly Petrov's marketing worth to Renault and Kommersant reporting that Moscow had a contract from Ecclestone that was waiting for the appropriate signatures. But according to Bloomberg, it's all systems go, with Vladimir Putin set to put pen to paper on a contract that will see a custom-made circuit be built in the Black Sea resort city of Sochi, with a projected start date of 2014. That might seem like an odd date given that Abu Dhabi and Korea (just) have been able to build circuits in two years, whislt India and Austin will also be doing the same. But I doubt it's a coincidence that the Russians have longer to get their act together, because Sochi will be hosting the 2014 Winter Olympics. It wouldn't surprise me to see the race run around Olympic venues.

I get the sense that this is going to be a relief for Bernie Ecclestone, because I believe the history of the Russian Grand Prix dates back to an attempt to establish the Grand Prix of the Soviet Union in Moscow in 1982. When that failed, we wound up with the Hungarian Grand Prix because Bernie had his heart set on a race behind the Iron Curtain. He's been trying on and off to get a race there for the past thirty years (there have been various projects at Nagatino Island and Pulkovskoe that never came to fruition), so to finally close it - if Bloomberg is to be believed - will probably be a relief. Hopefully this will give Hermann Tilke a chance to make good on his promise to make more "on the edge" circuits. At the very least, there's a lot of altitude changes.

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#2 dizlexik

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 07:23

That would be another nightmare for Sochi citizens.

#3 TURU

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 07:33

That would be another nightmare for Sochi citizens.

:lol:

Great Attitude :rotfl:

I guess every country has it's rednecks.

#4 neodin

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 07:45

It wouldn't surprise me to see the race run around Olympic venues.

It won't be around Olympic venues. The circuit would be located at another place. But Sochi will have all infrastructure to host such event - international airport, hotels and resorts, roads, etc.

Personally I think it would be great.

#5 neodin

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 08:12

Fresh update.

Putin and Ecclestone arrived at Sochi. Bernie had a look for future track place in Imeretin Valley (the same where will be Olympic complex). Contract would be sign for 5 years starting in 2014 with option for another 5 years. Price is around 40 millions dollars per year.

#6 dizlexik

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 08:15

:lol:

Great Attitude :rotfl:

I guess every country has it's rednecks.

1. I'm not Russian.

2. Do you know what they have done to people who live there, not to mention environment?


Another thing is doing Olympic Games in such a warm place...

Edited by dizlexik, 14 October 2010 - 08:15.


#7 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 08:21

Fresh update.

Putin and Ecclestone arrived at Sochi. Bernie had a look for future track place in Imeretin Valley (the same where will be Olympic complex). Contract would be sign for 5 years starting in 2014 with option for another 5 years. Price is around 40 millions dollars per year.

As awesome as a snowbound event would be, it's never going to happen. So I'm guessing the Imeretin Valley is on the Black Sea coast rather than up near the "Mountain" Olympic Village.

#8 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 08:22

Another thing is doing Olympic Games in such a warm place...

Sochi is on the Black Sea coast, but it's also hard up against the Caucasus Mountains. Do you really think the IOC wouldn't have made sure there was snow nearby before they awarded the Winter Games to the city?

#9 neodin

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 08:30

As awesome as a snowbound event would be, it's never going to happen. So I'm guessing the Imeretin Valley is on the Black Sea coast rather than up near the "Mountain" Olympic Village.

We'll see. It looks like no room for track:

Posted Image

#10 TURU

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 08:30

2. Do you know what they have done to people who live there, not to mention environment?


No I don't know what they've done to the inhabitants. Enlighten me.

Environment ....... :rotfl:


#11 slideways

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 08:42

10 or 15 years ago I wouldn't believe I could say this, but I would much more look forward to a GP in Russia than the USA. I have never been to Russia, and I am sick to death of the fear of anal probes and a 400lb Mexican lady forcefully shaving off my beard every time I go through American airports.

#12 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 08:45

No I don't know what they've done to the inhabitants. Enlighten me.

No doubt he's referring to the things the communists did during the days of the USSR. But if a country needed a stellar human rights record in order to be able to host a Grand Prix, I think you'll find that China, Japan, Germany and probably a handful of other countries shouldn't be on the calendar.

#13 Lifew12

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 09:00

We'll see. It looks like no room for track:


Looks like loads of room to me.

#14 TURU

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 09:01

No doubt he's referring to the things the communists did during the days of the USSR. But if a country needed a stellar human rights record in order to be able to host a Grand Prix, I think you'll find that China, Japan, Germany and probably a handful of other countries shouldn't be on the calendar.


Frankly, I don't see any connection between 'human rights record' in the past and hosting GP race in the present. It's just bending reality.

I thought he was referring to some horrors, they had done to the inhabitants during preperations for the Olympic Games in Sochi.

#15 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 09:02

Looks like loads of room to me.

I think you'd be hard-pressed to get five kilometres around the Olympic Village.

#16 united

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 09:08

1. I'm not Russian.

2. Do you know what they have done to people who live there, not to mention environment?


Another thing is doing Olympic Games in such a warm place...


Do you know how much money people received for their soon to be destroyed private houses in Imeritin Valley?

Because of speculative land prices – around $1 000 000 per household.

Sochi Olympics is some huge money grabbing experience virtually for everyone.

Now F1 joins the spectacle.

#17 Les

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 09:08

We'll see. It looks like no room for track:

Posted Image


They should build it in the mountains at the back! :up:

#18 dizlexik

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 09:19

Do you know how much money people received for their soon to be destroyed private houses in Imeritin Valley?

Because of speculative land prices – around $1 000 000 per household.

Sochi Olympics is some huge money grabbing experience virtually for everyone.

Now F1 joins the spectacle.

Source about $1000 000, please?

#19 Fastcake

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 09:24

Interesting, glad this was true. Would like to see the plans for the circuit once they're done - a snowy Grand Prix that'll be a laugh  ;)

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#20 Lifew12

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 09:28

I think you'd be hard-pressed to get five kilometres around the Olympic Village.


I don't! Looks ideal.

#21 TURU

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 09:35

Source about $1000 000, please?

What point are you actually trying to make ??

Russia is Russia - one preson counts for little there - but the same can be said about China, India and many others. Who cares really?
Bernie certainly doesn't, nor do I and 99% of F1 fans. F1 fans just want to see exciting races in interesting places, and Sochi IS an interesting place. Whole prospect of having Russian GP is absolutely staggering, for many reasons. And this comes from a Pole (to put things into perspective). :wave:

#22 wiry

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 09:35

here's a photo of the circuit map:
Posted Image

#23 One

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 09:52

here's a photo of the circuit map:
Posted Image


Oh bummer, another flat track, this one is on the flat concrete expo- terrain also. Sochi sounded extremelyexcitig as it is on a hill and close to the sea resort, the second (third) Monaco of Russia... This one shown is like Soviet Racing Scene. Sadly Soviet is now gone.


In the building world it is known that V.Putin and Abramovic is now putting up a huge project on an island off Vradiostock, consisits of huge hotel complex, congress and shopping, I was told that some Plitzker Prize winner Dutch architect is already involved in the planning phase, Abramovic and Putin met all involved in Vnice this summer. It was said that Abramovic has sold some part of his oil to a bank to get more money for this project. I was wondering if Putin was to put Formula One on the island...?

Edited by One, 14 October 2010 - 09:53.


#24 neodin

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 09:52

here's a photo of the circuit map:
Posted Image

Another Valensia. No!!!!!

#25 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 09:54

here's a photo of the circuit map:
Posted Image

That same website floated a proposed plan for a street circuit in Moscow back when Button and Petrov did a demo run there. Since Ecclestone and Putin are in Sochi, it obviously didn't happen. I doubt the Sochi circuit will go ahead without Hermann Tilke's involvement - and I don't think the IOC would be overly wild about Formula 1 using the Olympic Village for the race. After all, Ecclestone suggested a one-off "Olympic Grand Prix" to be held in London in 2012 to co-incide with the 2012 Summer Olympics, and the IOC shot it down. Then again, maybe Tilke has been in Sochi and drew it up, but I can't recall the last time a race was announced with a circuit plan ready at the time.

That said, it kind of looks like a cross between Monaco and Sepang.

#26 dizlexik

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 09:57

What point are you actually trying to make ??

Russia is Russia - one preson counts for little there - but the same can be said about China, India and many others. Who cares really?
Bernie certainly doesn't, nor do I and 99% of F1 fans. F1 fans just want to see exciting races in interesting places, and Sochi IS an interesting place. Whole prospect of having Russian GP is absolutely staggering, for many reasons. And this comes from a Pole (to put things into perspective). :wave:

Well... Hardly convincing reasoning.


Looks like they are planing street track, so there shouldn't be any harm.

Edited by dizlexik, 14 October 2010 - 09:58.


#27 FlashMaster

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 09:57

here's a photo of the circuit map:
Posted Image


Will there be even LESS overtaking than in Valencia? That's the only question

oh.. and which race will it replace? Spa? :rolleyes:

#28 Baddoer

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 10:01

Kinda like Melbourne track though

#29 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 10:01

Another Valensia. No!!!!!

You can't know that by looking at a two-dimensional planograph. I mean, do you have any idea how big some of those buildings are? Russia is bidding for the 2018 Euro Cup and Sochi has been touted as a venue, so that stadium on the left will at least be large enough to host international football matches. It could probably hold about a hundred thousand people, so it's by no means a small building.

And look how short the pit lane is. If that's a regulation-size pit lane, then the circuit is going to be very big indeed.

Edited by Captain Tightpants, 14 October 2010 - 10:03.


#30 TURU

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 10:03

Will there be even LESS overtaking than in Valencia? That's the only question

I doubt this picture is anything more than journalist's imagination. It's far too early for track's layout to be ready.

oh.. and which race will it replace? Spa? :rolleyes:


I guess Turkey, Valencia or Hungary.



#31 neodin

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 10:05

I doubt the Sochi circuit will go ahead without Hermann Tilke's involvement ...

Actually that's Tilke's design. Length 5.5 km, including usual roads and special stages. Contract will be sigh in half an hour. More details after that.

#32 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 10:08

Wait a second, the pictures don't aline ...

Circuit map:
Posted Image

Site as it stands today:
Posted Image

Look at the stadium on the left on the map. Where is it on the picture of the site? There's nowhere for it to go!




#33 primer

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 10:08

If there will be one more 'new' venue, does this mean F1 will drop one of the existing circuits, or is the F1 calendar going to expand to accomodate Russia?

If they have to drop a race, please let it be Valencia or Monaco!

#34 One

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 10:09

Posted Image

Posted Image


These are NOT the identical place, isn't it? ...

#35 neodin

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 10:11

Wait a second, the pictures don't aline ...

Both only projections.

#36 neodin

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 10:12

These are NOT the identical place, isn't it? ...

Almost identical. Slightly different angle. Look at lake in the centre.

#37 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 10:15

Actually that's Tilke's design. Length 5.5 km, including usual roads and special stages.

How on earth did they get their hands on the drawings?

If they have to drop a race, please let it be Valencia or Monaco!

Wash your mouth out! Valencia is a fantastic circuit. Formula 1 couldn't survive without it!

Wait, I said that wrong, didn't I?

These are NOT the identical place, isn't it? ...

Yeah, that's what I'm asking - but the photo of the site is a work in progress. This is a picture of the plan from Wikipedia. That dark-coloured circular building with the lighter circle on top is the Olympic Stadium, and that big amphitheatre-pond thing is the circular structure in the centre of the circuit.



#38 TURU

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 10:15

If there will be one more 'new' venue, does this mean F1 will drop one of the existing circuits, or is the F1 calendar going to expand to accomodate Russia?

If they have to drop a race, please let it be Valencia or Monaco!


Monaco ??!! Are you mad or what ?? They will never drop Monaco. Heart and soul of F1 racing is there.

#39 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 10:18

Both only projections.

Wait, that photo is only a projection? What are the Russians projecting, exactly? The right-hand side looks completely bare and unnecessary ...

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#40 dau

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 10:21

 

Yeah, that's what I'm asking - but the photo of the site is a work in progress.


Are you sure? It looks like CGI. Why would they be that far into construction with 4 years to go?


http://sochi2014.com/en/objects/sea/









#41 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 10:27

Are you sure? It looks like CGI. Why would they be that far into construction with 4 years to go?

I kind of figured that with the wide expanses of empty concrete, there was more to be built. It's going to be a very spaced-out Olympic Village, otherwise. The V8 Supercars have a race around the Homebush Bay Olympic Park that does a lap of the main facilities (ie the Superdome, Acer Arena, etc.) that's roughly three kilometres long. Formula 1 is going to Sochi and it's going to be five and a half kilometres, so what the hell is all the space for? That's why I figured there would be more too it, particularly on the right-hand side of the picture.

#42 neodin

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 10:41

How on earth did they get their hands on the drawings?

It looks like cell phone photo from presentation.

Edited by neodin, 14 October 2010 - 10:42.


#43 One

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 10:47

I have read on a News Feed just now that Putin has signed to held GP in Sochi from 2014.
Way to go.


Hope the track IS exciting!

#44 msan

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 10:53

For Russian will be chaper go to other GP (for example, Hungary) then to Sochi.

#45 One

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 10:54

Almost identical. Slightly different angle. Look at lake in the centre.


Yes, they look a like. Could not believe till I read on News Feeder's site.

Looking from the Birds Eye views CD shots, the place is pretty flat,but I kinda like running in between those HUGE Soviet Style Sport complex on 'middle of no where' 10 football field concrete podium with Formula One cars... WOuld be hugely relieved from seeing something that is not entirely Monaco, but certaily Soviet-Like Unhuman Uniquness...


:clap:

With the condition that the track will be laid in an awesome layout, tho.

#46 neodin

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 10:59

For Russian will be chaper go to other GP (for example, Hungary) then to Sochi.

Why?

#47 neodin

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 11:02

...but certaily Soviet-Like Unhuman Uniquness...

From CGI model it looks nice and modern. Compact. You don't need spend hours to reach different venues. All will be close. Awesome. Only for outdoor mountains sports you need go to another cluster in the mountains.

#48 Tsarwash

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 11:04

The plan view looks to be completely made up, and does not correlate to the other three projections in any way. The football stadium would seem to be about to be build entirely on water. And the pit straight is way too short for a modern F1 circuit. Personally I would haved loved to see a F1 cars racing past St Basil's cathedral and Lenin's Mausoleum in Red Square.

#49 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 11:34

With the condition that the track will be laid in an awesome layout, tho.

If the layout posted is accurate, it may not actually be that bad:

Posted Image

For once, the first corner is not created as an overtaking point. It looks like it will be flat or near-flat. The second corner is an overrtaking point, but unlike most of Tilke's overtaking points, it's not less than ninety degrees. The third corner, the one that loops around the central water feature (and what looks like a podium in the concept art) reminds me of the top section of Sepang, a long, sweeping bend. And it's not a tightening-radius bend for once. The fourth corner is also flat out. The next sequence of bends is typically Tilke, but looks much more relaxed than his usual zig-zag stuff, and you can't have a circuit comprised entirely of high-speed bends, anyway. Where would anybody pass each other? It might be fun for the drivers, but it would be pretty boring otherwise. Then you've got the section around behind the stadium which might be a series of second-gear bends at worst, but at least there's some length between the corners. The sequence along the waterfront (the top of the picture) will also be fast. There's another two bends behind the paddock that will be slow, and while the final corner might be a carbon-copy of the Hungaroring, the cares will be able to pick up some speed. And as it's a constant-radius 180-degree bend, it's perfect for some banking. The layout basically has three high-speed sections and two reasonable-speed sections, with a few slower corners in to break up the rhythm. It actually reminds me of the original Monaco layout before Rascasse was made into what it is today.

Edited by Captain Tightpants, 14 October 2010 - 11:35.


#50 PayasYouRace

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 11:45

here's a photo of the circuit map:
Posted Image


Reminds me of the old Vancouver Indycar circuit, and that was a great track, before they completely changed it and ruined it.