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Fernando Alonso - The Inheritor


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#201 choyothe

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:33

you forgot to add 2011 silverstone, Vettel pitted from in front of him but had a 15 second pit stop, which put him behind Hamilton to totally kill his race.


Yeah forgot that. Maybe that would go into the arguables, Alonso's pace was clearly superior on the dry though.

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#202 MightyMoose

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 14:48

Time to chime in, a skill of a driver is to maximize everything he can, currently the one on the grid who gets closest to this most of the time is Alonso.

Sure he's benefiting from outstanding Ferrari reliability, but a car that's a second a lap quicker is dogshit when it can only complete 20 of the 55 laps......

If he is going to be referred to as an "inheritor" and there's little doubt in my mind that the instigators here intend that to be a negative term then maybe they should ask themselves why he can do it when their 'hero' cannot.

It's a massive asset to any driver in my book, and it encompasses what Alonso is about.... last year he gave Webber space at Eau Rouge, now if Webber later drops out they'd say "Oh look, FA gains again", in reality he'd have put himself in that position because he didn't fight and cause a crash earlier. There is always the time to "live to fight another day", look at yesterday and see how some drivers should have seen things going on and backed out much earlier.

A driver can be lucky, a driver can be good.... and you know what, a good driver can put himself in position to maximize his luck. That is what FA does, he's not the 1st, he's unlikely to be the last.

#203 noikeee

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 15:43

Great calm and composed drivers, will place themselves on the ideal position to benefit from the mistakes of others, more often than lesser drivers. They are no better neither worse, than the other type of great drivers: the brave and impulsive drivers, who are more spectacular and force their wins but also tend to commit more mistakes. At the end whoever gets more points wins the title, and it doesn't matter whether you fit one category of driver more than the other.

It's also an oversimplification to name a driver as an "inheritor" because on other occasions, perhaps on different machinery, he might come off as a Banzai type of driver. When we saw Alonso going side-by-side with Hamilton in Eau Rouge in 2007, or going past Schumacher on the outside of the 130R in 2005, "inheritor" and "cruiser" weren't the immediate words that came to mind.

However it is true that there are trends, and Alonso tends to be that guy that is there to capitalize. That doesn't detract from his talent at all. What I find more striking, is, as I said earlier, this kind of role often stems from the car they're driving, and Alonso has quite an history of very reliable (if often slower) cars. I don't recall any instance of him losing a win to mechanical issues like Lewis has done this year, Vettel with the alternator nonsense, or Kimi in the McLaren years? Hungary 2006 maybe when Button got his 1st win, is that the only occasion or is my memory playing tricks on me?

It's a genuine question, not trying to detract Alonso who I rate the best of the current field. It's remarkable how rarely he gets mechanical problems at the front, given he's been at the front for nearly a decade now.

#204 Risil

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 16:09

Hungary 2006 maybe when Button got his 1st win, is that the only occasion or is my memory playing tricks on me?


And even that was some sort of pitstop error. A check through Forix suggests Alonso's had one mechanical retirement in his three years at Ferrari, which was in only his second race for the team, Malaysia in 2010. Then in 2005-9 we get three, all of which came in unusual circumstances, whether a mechanical fault after qualifying unusually well (Hungary 2009 and Spain 2008), or an engine failure while charging through the field (Monza 2006). Alonso's race record before this has the usual smattering of mechanical failures.

Leads me to suspect that it is something that Alonso and his crew are doing -- caution which is disregarded in special circumstances, or in Ferrari's case, before "Alonso's style" is sufficiently impressed on the team. Smart move if so, and one which suggests to me that FA learnt the lessons of his first world title very well indeed. Could yet deliver him another.

While we're talking about inheritors, at Spa in 2004 Kimi Raikkonen "inherited" a race win from Alonso, who spun out with an oil leak.

And needless to say, Alonso does still have crashes. Comes with the territory.

Edited by Risil, 05 November 2012 - 16:10.


#205 Skinnyguy

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 16:20

Sure, Alonso won more inherited races than most, he also lost way less "in the pocket" races than most. He is generally a lucky guy.

But if this thread tries to diminish his skills/results, as it looks to me, it fails big time. :wave:

#206 Risil

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 16:23

But if this thread tries to diminish his skills/results, as it looks to me, it fails big time. :wave:


Truth is a powerful thing. ;)

#207 bourbon

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 16:23

Time to chime in, a skill of a driver is to maximize everything he can, currently the one on the grid who gets closest to this most of the time is Alonso.


I disagree wholeheartedly. It is off topic to state who it actually is, but it isn't Fernando Alonso.

Sure he's benefiting from outstanding Ferrari reliability, but a car that's a second a lap quicker is dogshit when it can only complete 20 of the 55 laps......


Agreed, but you realize you have moved on to an equipment issue. Above you were onto a driver issue.

If he is going to be referred to as an "inheritor" and there's little doubt in my mind that the instigators here intend that to be a negative term then maybe they should ask themselves why he can do it when their 'hero' cannot.

It's a massive asset to any driver in my book, and it encompasses what Alonso is about.... last year he gave Webber space at Eau Rouge, now if Webber later drops out they'd say "Oh look, FA gains again", in reality he'd have put himself in that position because he didn't fight and cause a crash earlier. There is always the time to "live to fight another day", look at yesterday and see how some drivers should have seen things going on and backed out much earlier.

A driver can be lucky, a driver can be good.... and you know what, a good driver can put himself in position to maximize his luck. That is what FA does, he's not the 1st, he's unlikely to be the last.


Right, back to driver issues. Poor driving aside, many top drivers do this, as you point out. And all of them, including Alonso (i.e., Valencia 2010), have brainfade moments in which they do not. So I do not feel that Alonso excels in this area over any other top driver, with the exception of having more experience than some. However of the current grid, there are two others, with experience equal to his, that do a much better job of "maximizing their luck" (risk management) on a consistent basis. For example, they would never pull a Suzuka 2012 start like Alonso did. Nobody is perfect at it - but two do come closer than Alonso, imo.

Alonso is right up there, but to me, he falls below another in terms of maximization, bascially because he still does not have a total handle on his occassional emotional zeal. I am not sure that is a bad thing - it may also be a strength at times that works well for him. So I am not saying he should change, merely that I disagree that he is the best maximizer of chance of the current grid, based on skill and experience.

Edited by bourbon, 05 November 2012 - 16:27.


#208 HPT

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 01:16

I disagree wholeheartedly. It is off topic to state who it actually is, but it isn't Fernando Alonso.



Agreed, but you realize you have moved on to an equipment issue. Above you were onto a driver issue.



Right, back to driver issues. Poor driving aside, many top drivers do this, as you point out. And all of them, including Alonso (i.e., Valencia 2010), have brainfade moments in which they do not. So I do not feel that Alonso excels in this area over any other top driver, with the exception of having more experience than some. However of the current grid, there are two others, with experience equal to his, that do a much better job of "maximizing their luck" (risk management) on a consistent basis. For example, they would never pull a Suzuka 2012 start like Alonso did. Nobody is perfect at it - but two do come closer than Alonso, imo.

Alonso is right up there, but to me, he falls below another in terms of maximization, bascially because he still does not have a total handle on his occassional emotional zeal. I am not sure that is a bad thing - it may also be a strength at times that works well for him. So I am not saying he should change, merely that I disagree that he is the best maximizer of chance of the current grid, based on skill and experience.


So who is? Vettel?


#209 discover23

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 02:06

Nobody is perfect at it - but two do come closer than Alonso, imo.

Alonso is right up there, but to me, he falls below another in terms of maximization, bascially because he still does not have a total handle on his occassional emotional zeal. I am not sure that is a bad thing - it may also be a strength at times that works well for him. So I am not saying he should change, merely that I disagree that he is the best maximizer of chance of the current grid, based on skill and experience.

the other driver you are refering too has huge issues with dealing with a car that is not perfectly suited to his style.. he has failed miserably in that department when he could not deliver in a WDC capable car..
Someone must be really desparate to diminish alonso if they need to bring up Japan 2012.. lol.

Edited by discover23, 07 November 2012 - 02:09.


#210 CF22

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 02:10

So who is? Vettel?


His picture gives it away.

#211 decoder

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 05:24

Right, back to driver issues. Poor driving aside, many top drivers do this, as you point out. And all of them, including Alonso (i.e., Valencia 2010), have brainfade moments in which they do not. So I do not feel that Alonso excels in this area over any other top driver, with the exception of having more experience than some. However of the current grid, there are two others, with experience equal to his, that do a much better job of "maximizing their luck" (risk management) on a consistent basis. For example, they would never pull a Suzuka 2012 start like Alonso did. Nobody is perfect at it - but two do come closer than Alonso, imo.

Alonso is right up there, but to me, he falls below another in terms of maximization, bascially because he still does not have a total handle on his occassional emotional zeal. I am not sure that is a bad thing - it may also be a strength at times that works well for him. So I am not saying he should change, merely that I disagree that he is the best maximizer of chance of the current grid, based on skill and experience.



Who are you talking? Vettel, the great maximiser outqualified by his team mate 8 times, and only leading Alonso by 10 points in a far superior car? I can understand being a fan of a driver, but sometimes you need to be rational.

Edited by decoder, 07 November 2012 - 05:36.


#212 packapoo

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 06:23

Ahhhh.
I've been puzzling over the 'inheritor' tag but now it's finally clicked!

The 'Crashgate' race. Of course.
(Sorry I'm so slow.) :clap:


#213 Cesc

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 06:53

An amazing racing driver for gaining 21 places in one race. Grow up.


Alonso recovered from 24th (pit lane as well) to 6th in Monaco in 2010 with only a few overtakings and in about 30 laps. That was not a super race, he did the right moves on the slow cars and got benefited from the SC as well. And I think we would agree that Monaco in not Abu Dahbi in terms of overtaking oportunities.



#214 FirstWatt

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 07:09

Alonso recovered from 24th (pit lane as well) to 6th in Monaco in 2010 with only a few overtakings and in about 30 laps. That was not a super race, he did the right moves on the slow cars and got benefited from the SC as well. And I think we would agree that Monaco in not Abu Dahbi in terms of overtaking oportunities.

What a weird thread.

Some have luck to inherit the best car from engineering department, some who don't have to gather points with even more outstanding driving.
I wonder anyway how one can call Alonso's overtakes at the starts in India or Abu Dhabi an inheritage.

#215 bourbon

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 07:18

So who is? Vettel?


I said with equal experience in F1 - meaning Raikkonen. (My opinion of course)

However, my point was that the debate as to whether or not - or why Alonso is the 'inheritor' is valid, independent of how individuals rate him. Fan rating is at best highly unstable.