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Felipe Massa the most unlucky currently active F1 driver


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#1 VicR

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 23:52

Let's have a walk down memory lane and look at Felipe's career once joining Ferrari as one of their regular F1 drivers. I didn't research his Sauber days but if someone wants to do it then you're more than welcome to add it here. The events down below are things you can label as "unlucky" or "lack of luck". All his personal on track mistakes and setups that didn't work or other gambles are not included in this post. This is the combined bad luck or things that most likely were out of his control in almost five seasons of racing.

2006 - Flashes of greatness but the guinea pig.

Bahrain: First pitstop ever at Ferrari takes 65 seconds (wheelnut) and Felipe loses a very likely podium.
Malaysia: Engine problems during qualifying puts him 21st on the grid. Finishes 5th on a one-stopper ahead of Michael.
Australia: Klien clips Felipe on the opening lap. Rosberg also retires in the process.
Hungary: During the first pitstop the pitcrew accidentally mixed up his front full wets. Meaning he was driving with the left tyre on the right and vice versa and still keeping it on the track.
China: Another engine problem, this time prior to qualifying, puts him 20th on the grid. Retires from the race.
Japan: Takes pole position. Has a puncture and is brought in three laps early on lap 13 which gives Alonso the opportunity to leapfrog him and put pressure on Michael.

2007 - A new dawn at Ferrari but still not taken seriously.

Australia: Another engine problem, this time in Q1, puts him 22nd on the grid. Finishes 6th!
Canada: During a SC he gets black-flagged (along with Fisichella) for exiting the pitlane because RC had missed to switch off the red light once the train of cars, that didn't pit, had passed the pit exit.
Great Britain: Qualifies 4th. At the start the engine dies. He's moved back to the back of the grid. Finishes 5th!
Hungary: Makes a mistake in Q2 and pits. But they forget to refuel him. Stops in the pitlane and is brought back. Gets out again on very cold tyres and misses the cut. Starts 14th.
Italy: Qualifies 3rd. Retires on lap 10 with a broken suspension. This ends his shot at the WDC and is assigned to help Kimi until the end of the season.

2008 - Another year with a WDC team mate but at the last race he's the WDC candidate.

Australia: Retires along with Kimi with an engine failure.
Monaco: Qualifies on pole. Everything is fine and then a couple of SCs reshuffles the order and brings Lewis (who hit the armco) to the front. A very strange race. Lewis wins.
Canada: During a SC he pits behind Kimi on lap 19. The fuel rig doesn't work and he is brought back in again on lap 21. Finishes 5th despite that!
Great Britain: A problem with the right rear during the pitstop prior to his final run in Q3 prevents him from making the last flying lap. Starts 9th and has a dreadful race.
Hungary: In the lead (after a great start) with three laps to go the engine blows up.
Singapore: Takes pole position. During the first SC pitstop he leaves the pitbox with the fuel hose attached after Ferrari's new light system shows him a green light. Rejoins the race more than two minutes adrift.
Brazil: Can't blame bad luck but losing the WDC at the last corner while being WDC for a few seconds has to be mentioned.

2009 - The year when everything went wrong and then some...

Australia: Retires with a broken suspension on lap 45.
China: Retires with an electrical problem.
Spain: Not enough fuel in the tank to stay in 4th at the end. Turns the pace down and finishes 6th and stopping on track with no fuel.
Hungary - During Q2 a spring, from Rubens' car, hits him in the head. He has a skull fracture and a few mms from almost losing sight on his left eye. Sidelined for the rest of the season.

2010 - Another WDC to face but now the boss has a new pet. The new pet is also paying for his own food.

Malaysia: Bad Q1 decision by the team to stay put on a drying track gets him 21th on the grid. Finishes 7th.
China: Enters the pitlane ahead of his team mate. Almost hit by Alonso at the pit entry and avoids a double DNF by going on the grass. Forced to queue behind at the pitstop losing valuable time.
Canada: Initially hit by Liuzzi after the start by starting in the pack. Then tangles with him again. Has to pit and stuck for the rest of the race.
Great Britain - Clipped by Alonso at the back at the opening stages. Picked up a puncture. Dropped to the back.
Germany: Nothing left to say.
Singapore: Engine or gearbox failure in Q1 gets him 24th on the grid. Finishes 8th.
Brazil: While pitting to put on the hards on lap 12 something goes wrong with the right front tire. He has to pit again on the following lap. During the stop he's clearly seen showing something is wrong while pointing at the front right. Exits the pitlane last on track.

That's the Felipe Massa stroll down memory lane in the last 87 F1 Grand Prix weekends. He has had some sort of issues out of his control in 28 out of those (I might have missed something). That's almost an issue out of his control in ONE OUT OF THREE RACE WEEKENDS in the last five season! It would be intersting to see if someone could compile a file like this for any other driver. Historically I think Chris Amon is even more unlucky but Felipe Massa is in the running for sure. It just seem he can never get a break or a streak of luck.

Edited by VicR, 07 November 2010 - 23:28.


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#2 Dunder

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 00:19

He was horribly unlucky in Hungary in 2009, no question.

The rest is really just the ups and downs of being a Grand Prix driver in a top team. It should be bourne in mind that Ferrari essentially farmed Massa out to Sauber to gain experience and during those years his reputation (in simplistic terms) was as being fast but erratic. I was personally surprised that he got the Ferrari seat when Rubens eventually moved on but would agree that he stepped up to the plate.

A good number of the incidents/events you mention are (at least partially) within Massa's control.

#3 VicR

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 01:23

A good number of the incidents/events you mention are (at least partially) within Massa's control.


Care to mention them? I've tried to be objective and unbiased.

#4 Tsarwash

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 01:29

Vettel wins the bad luck award for this year. Three mechanical failures whilst leading the race from pole, near the finish.


#5 Nesto

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 02:52

You can make your own luck. You need to put yourself in the right place at the right time and avoid collisions with others. Massa isn't known to be mentally strong, hence Germany this year. I guess you could say hes also unlucky to be a poor wet weather driver. Or to always be partnered with great teammates. Or that he lacks race craft as I don't think hes won a GP other than starting on pole or the front row. I mean Smedley is practically his coach in his ear during the race. 2008 was his one year as I believe the team started favoring and developing the car in his favor. He had bad luck that year but he was only in contention because Ferrari and McLaren were the dominant cars, Hamilton made a lot of mistakes and their Finnish teammates weren't doing enough.

#6 Murphster

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 03:22

There is no such thing as luck.

Anyone who actually believes that luck plays any part in their lives or future is nothing more than a loser looking for excuses as to why they are not successful.



#7 HPT

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 03:22

He was lucky to be made a Ferrari driver after being dropped by Sauber. A lot of drivers in his situation would have been looking for drives from other series, and he got a Ferrari drive thanks to his Todt connection. He has proved that he is (was?) worthy of a Ferrari drive after all, but he had to get the drive to be able to prove it. And to get the drive itself is already extremely lucky.

Edited by HPT, 27 October 2010 - 03:22.


#8 DarthRonzo

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 03:26

Luck walks side-by-side hard work.

#9 Jazza

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 03:43

There is no such thing as luck.

Anyone who actually believes that luck plays any part in their lives or future is nothing more than a loser looking for excuses as to why they are not successful.


Surely being born with a terminal illness in a poor country that results in your early death, in comparison to being born in a billionaire family and living 80 years of luxury, has nothing to do with being a looser.

Not everyone is born with the same opportunities in life. But it would seem that while many people may look for excuses as to why they are not successful, there are many successful people who would like to pretend that everything they have in life is of their own doing.

#10 rookie

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 03:51

Yes, I agree Massa is quite unlucky....but equally so, he is the most curiously inconsistent of the top bunch.

He can have great days, and truly awful days. I think his peaks and valleys are the furtherst apart of the top drivers.



#11 baddog

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 04:00

While he has had some bad fortune, and was very unfortunate not to win the championship, he is in fact one of the MOST fortunate of all modern drivers.

How many drivers of his bracket of apparent skill and reputation pre 1996 have ended up at a team like Ferrari when the team is strong, and then found themselves elevated to joint number one by an underperforming teammate giving them a run at the championship? Almost none.. most never get the chance to have such a run even once.

#12 JosTheBoss

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 04:03

Career back luck award goes to Webber, no question.

#13 baddog

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 04:05

Yeah being in that redbull at the head of the chapionship sucks ;)

#14 Murphster

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 04:24

Surely being born with a terminal illness in a poor country that results in your early death, in comparison to being born in a billionaire family and living 80 years of luxury, has nothing to do with being a looser.

Not everyone is born with the same opportunities in life. But it would seem that while many people may look for excuses as to why they are not successful, there are many successful people who would like to pretend that everything they have in life is of their own doing.


Makes no sense.

There is no such thing as luck.

Being born with a terminal illness is being born with a terminal illness, it is not unlucky, It is just life and you drew the short straw. Success is relative, it cannot be measured against anyone or anything else. Luck is a made up word that makes people feel better about themselves. A man who is born with no legs and yet teaches himself to walk is successful, a man born into riches who achieves nothing is unsuccessful.

Neither is lucky, neither is unlucky.

Anything that takes hard work in order to achieve is achieved by hard work, anyone who suggests luck played a part is someone who has not worked hard enough.



#15 Paul Prost

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 04:42

He was lucky to be made a Ferrari driver after being dropped by Sauber. A lot of drivers in his situation would have been looking for drives from other series, and he got a Ferrari drive thanks to his Todt connection. He has proved that he is (was?) worthy of a Ferrari drive after all, but he had to get the drive to be able to prove it. And to get the drive itself is already extremely lucky.

I agree with this. He was very lucky to get the #2 Ferrari car...much like Eddie Irvine. However, I think he made the most of this luck and drove very well in 2006, 2007 and 2008 to move from a 'Schumacher lap-dog' to a championship contender.

I personally think that Ferrari have treated him very badly considering how close he came to winning a championship for them in 2008.

However, maybe he's lost that essential edge since his accident?

#16 packapoo

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 05:02

Career back luck award goes to Webber, no question.


He's only a babe-in-the-woods; get real!

#17 Mary Popsins

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 05:07

I've always liked Massa. He's a nice guy, a good team player in a world where the fist thing to do is to kill your team mate before you get hit by the team orders. Three times the word "team" in a sentence about Massa that sounds right.

But he's made his car smaller than others and he should have called Alonso Britney before he was asked to go back at the end of the queue because this is where accidents happen.

It's a metaphor.

#18 lithium

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 05:10

Most unlucky? I don't think so. Many extremely talented F1 drivers never even had a chance to drive for a top team, and Felipe has been doing that for years already. So he's very lucky in that sense. Many drivers would do anything to be in Felipe's place at Ferrari.. just to be able to fight at the sharp end of the grid. As for various accidents and misfortunes, well, you make your own luck, as they say.. Apart from Budapest 2009, which was a completely freak accident, but even then, Massa was lucky to recover so well. I'm sure many drivers would be able to compile long lists of how unfortunate they were during their careers and Massa is not an exception in that sense. IMO.

#19 seahawk

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 05:26

I agree with this. He was very lucky to get the #2 Ferrari car...much like Eddie Irvine. However, I think he made the most of this luck and drove very well in 2006, 2007 and 2008 to move from a 'Schumacher lap-dog' to a championship contender.

I personally think that Ferrari have treated him very badly considering how close he came to winning a championship for them in 2008.

However, maybe he's lost that essential edge since his accident?


I think they treated him very nicely by extending the contract, while he was still recovering form his injuries. On the other hand he is with the team long enough, that they do not care about the feelings of their drivers, if a title can be won. And he should admit to himself that he had no chance of winning the WDC this year.

I find it hard to say if he was unlucky. In 2008 he could have won the title with a little more luck and being hit by the spring in 2009 was also very unlucky.

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#20 Jazza

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 05:57

Makes no sense.

There is no such thing as luck.

Being born with a terminal illness is being born with a terminal illness, it is not unlucky, It is just life and you drew the short straw. Success is relative, it cannot be measured against anyone or anything else. Luck is a made up word that makes people feel better about themselves. A man who is born with no legs and yet teaches himself to walk is successful, a man born into riches who achieves nothing is unsuccessful.

Neither is lucky, neither is unlucky.

Anything that takes hard work in order to achieve is achieved by hard work, anyone who suggests luck played a part is someone who has not worked hard enough.


What exactly is drawing the "short straw" if luck does not exist?

I think this is more to do with the definition of "luck". Yes there is no mystical cloud that follows people around and makes someone either unlucky or lucky. But no amount of hard work will help you avoiding the short straw.

Surely there is room for the word "luck" in life when describing good outcomes and bad outcomes that are out of the control of the individual.

Edited by Jazza, 27 October 2010 - 07:35.


#21 as65p

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 06:59

Oh look, a sorry thread about a sorry driver, what a nice fit!

#22 kosmos

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 07:06

If Massa is an unlucky driver, I wonder how can you describe other drivers than never have the chance to drive for a competitive car and win at least one race.

#23 unoc

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 07:12

If Massa is an unlucky driver, I wonder how can you describe other drivers than never have the chance to drive for a competitive car and win at least one race.


Challenging Hiedfled.. and Webber until last year (probably webber ftw in his williams' days)



#24 Classic Ferrari

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 07:18

From the member who gave us this in relation to Alonso...

Unbelievable how one guy can have so much luck over and over again throughout the years. Nothing that really matters ever gets wrong for him. When something gets wrong it's basicly a piss in the ocean regarding the big picture. But when it's going his way the floodgates open and everything he touches turns to gold. Not even a pitcrew error affects the final outcome. I find it hard to grasp. It's like he has sold his soul to devil to reign on earth. Because that's exactly what he's doing. What else is there left to say? Nothing!

So lucky...and they say "luck has nothing to do with it". Right...


:rotfl:

#25 zarooch

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 07:20

If I can think of any driver being unlucky then it has to be Kimi Raikkonen followed by Vettel

Edited by zarooch, 27 October 2010 - 07:21.


#26 muelte

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 07:21

I've tried to be objective and unbiased.


You can try, but you can't be. We already know you here.

In my opinion he is a lucky driver: he was lucky to get a Ferrari seat back in 2006 without having shown being a more than average driver at Sauber, and he is lucky to keep driving for Ferrari nowadays.

#27 zarooch

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 07:22

You can try, but you can't be. We already know you here.

In my opinion he is a lucky driver: he was lucky to get a Ferrari seat back in 2006 without having shown being a more than average driver at Sauber, and he is lucky to keep driving for Ferrari nowadays.


+1

#28 Muppetmad

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 07:26

Massa had moments of luck in 2008 when Bourdais was penalised for no reason at Fuji, which gave Massa extra points. Hamilton's penalty in Belgium (again, for no reason) gave Massa extra points and the win - all of which added up to keep him in the title hunt going into Brazil.

#29 velgajski1

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 07:29

Massa is unlucky solely for the Hungary 2009., rest of the things are pretty normal and you could find 6-7 unlucky events per season for most drivers.

For example, I'm a Lewis Hamilton fan and he had some really unlucky events happening this season, but there should be also acknowledged that he had also many lucky events happening where things could easily end up in tears - and they didn't. He was leading WDC in 3rd fastest car because of it, but then he struck an unlucky streak.

In the end, if you look at the WDC table now, luck has mostly evened out, and its now mostly about how well each car/driver combo performed throughout the season (In my opinion Alonso and Lewis performed on approx same level with Vettel and Webber performing a bit worse).



#30 ViMaMo

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 07:37

Massa is very lucky to be racing for Ferrari.
Ofcourse Im in no position to judge Massa as Ferrari have analysed him.

But its just mind boggling, his career was nowhere when he was driving for Sauber, where were the flashes of brilliance?



#31 PLAYLIFE

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 07:38

To VicR, regarding 2010:

Malaysia - redundant point, lots of drivers fell foul of bad team decisions - Alonso for one.
China - that's not bad luck, Massa was asleep.
Montreal - I thought he could have given Liuzzi more room into and through T1. He then definitely hit Liuzzi exiting T2.
Silverstone - He hit Alonso - he tried to take advantage of the Alonso/Rosberg battle. He was behind Alonso and tried a stupid move into Beckets, a place where you don't pass.
Germany - he took advantage of team orders in 2008 when Kimi helped him, nothing wrong here.


This year, Vettel has been the most unlucky. Reliability problems in:
- Bahrain (P1)
- Australia (P1)
- Spain
- Canada
- momentarily in Italy
- Korea (P1)

That's not even counting bad decisions made by the team!!



Lets' not forget Massa's poor drives, like Silverstone 2008, most of 2010, and a whole bunch of races when he was at Sauber.

You gotta take the good with the bad, not focus on only one, it will only give you a distorted view....

Edited by PLAYLIFE, 27 October 2010 - 07:41.


#32 ViMaMo

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 07:42

Vettel's penalty for falling too far back from safety car was very very unlucky. Poor kid didnt even know why he was being penalised. The finger points to Vettel and Red Bull for being unlucky.

Edited by vivian, 27 October 2010 - 07:42.


#33 kandru

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 07:51

Nothing really special, and not unluckier than the rest of the drivers (apart from Hungary 2009). It's been a pretty good exercise if you wanted to understand why he's not a WDC yet after 5 years in Ferrari, but if you really wanted to enumerate bad luck moments of a current F1 driver, you should've taken a look at Mark Webber's record

#34 AlanWake

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 07:54

If Massa is an unlucky driver, I wonder how can you describe other drivers than never have the chance to drive for a competitive car and win at least one race.


Exactly :up:

#35 marcm

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 08:23

Australia: Klien clips Felipe on the opening lap. Rosberg also retires in the process. (Incidents like this aren't purely down to luck. The way the driver positions his car and even how well he qualifies in the first place all have a big influence on this)

Canada: During a SC he gets black-flagged (along with Fisichella) for exiting the pitlane because RC had missed to switch off the red light once the train of cars, that didn't pit, had passed the pit exit. (You don't cross a red light at the end of the pit lane regardless. That is driver error.)

Hungary: Makes a mistake in Q2 and pits. But they forget to refuel him. Stops in the pitlane and is brought back. Gets out again on very cold tyres and misses the cut. Starts 14th. (These kind of things happen all the time - some drivers manage to make that critical lap count - others fall short)

Great Britain: A problem with the right rear during the pitstop prior to his final run in Q3 prevents him from making the last flying lap. Starts 9th and has a dreadful race. (Again - these things happen. Other drivers have manage to salvage solid results from 9th on the grid)

Brazil: Can't blame bad luck but losing the WDC at the last corner while being WDC for a few seconds has to be mentioned. (Agree - that's not bad luck)

Spain: Not enough fuel in the tank to stay in 4th at the end. Turns the pace down and finishes 6th and stopping on track with no fuel. (Either the team didn't fuel the car enough or Felippe's driving was using too much fuel - I wouldn't say this is bad luck as such)

Hungary - During Q2 a spring, from Rubens' car, hits him in the head. He has a skull fracture and a few mms from almost losing sight on his left eye. Sidelined for the rest of the season. (It's unlucky to be hit by a spring- however racing is a risky business. He isn't the first and certainly won't be the last driver injured while racing.)

Malaysia: Bad Q1 decision by the team to stay put on a drying track gets him 21th on the grid. Finishes 7th. (A driver does have some influence in whether to go out or not - it's not bad luck, just bad judgement by him and the team)

China: Enters the pitlane ahead of his team mate. Almost hit by Alonso at the pit entry and avoids a double DNF by going on the grass. Forced to queue behind at the pitstop losing valuable time. (Lol - this certainly isn't bad luck! If he was quicker and didn't make a mistake at the preceeding corner, Alonso wouldn't have had a run on him regardless)

Canada: Initially hit by Liuzzi after the start by starting in the pack. Then tangles with him again. Has to pit and stuck for the rest of the race. (Again- you make your own luck by qualifying well and avoiding the carnage)

Great Britain - Clipped by Alonso at the back at the opening stages. Picked up a puncture. Dropped to the back. (Not bad luck - you take a calculated risk every time you go wheel to wheel with another driver)

Germany: Nothing left to say. (If he was even quicker throught that weekend and had previously scored more points he wouldn't have been in that position - luck has nothing to do with it)


That's before you take into account that engine failures, suspension failures, punctures etc aren't always 100% out of the drivers control. If you hammer the kerbs, the car is more likely to break. If you run off line you are more likely to get a puncture. If you are quick enough and build a lead you can preserve your engine by reducing revs etc.

You make your own luck to a certain degree. I don't see that Felippe is any more "unlucky" than any other driver out there. In fact luck is also a matter of perspective - you could say that Felippe is lucky to have made a full recovery from his injuries.




#36 Massa_f1

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 08:29

Vettel has been the most unlucky driver this year. In the lead 3 times and having the car fail. He should be wold champion by now i admit that even as a Webber fan.

#37 Lights

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 08:39

Not a bad thread but like others have mentioned, a list written in this way can be created for a lot of drivers if you count being overtaken as bad luck.

#38 JKTRacing

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 10:50

There is no such thing as luck.

Anyone who actually believes that luck plays any part in their lives or future is nothing more than a loser looking for excuses as to why they are not successful.

:up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:


#39 Zippel

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 10:51

For a driver who was ineffectual in a Sauber for 3 years I think he was extremely lucky to land a drive with the most highly sought after team on the grid and been with them for 5 years.

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#40 ivanalesi

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 12:34

Massa & Vettel are remarkably unlucky! I mean even the last race, why on earth an engine in the middle of its cycle would blow up in a cold wet race!?!?!? Kimi also had some unbelievable luck in McLaren.
But yeah, some drivers just don't have luck, some are incredibly lucky.
Think about Johnny Herbert, the guy won 3 races where he was absolutely nowhere! At Nurburgring, this was probably one of only 2-3 races where he was in front of Rubens & Trulli and everybody in front just retired!
Then Felipe being struck by a spring or some of the incredibly stupid things in 2007 & 2008. For example Monza 2007, new model of inertia dampers, not enough testing and they give it them, one of the dampers on Felipe's car fail big time and from then on there has never been a problem with them.
Most of Alesi's career was the same, he had lots of moments retiring in the lead and then won his only win thanks to luck - this was cruel!
Or Hakkinen in Barcelona at the last lap!
Before that Schumacher crashing at Silverstone which basically lost him the title.
Sometimes it evens out(like Mika), but often some drivers are struck with lots of bad luck or lots of good luck!

#41 VicR

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 13:43

Yes, many would say it's "lucky" to be driving for Ferrari. But why are some of you using the "he has a good car/package for years" as a factor? That has nothing to do with it. It doesn't matter if you're in a good car, an average car or a bad car when you're basicly affected by outside factors out of your control at almost one out of three race weekends during a five-year span. There is actually one thing that could be discussed with this in mind. It's the fact that a good car/package/team should be less prone to mechanical errors, pitcrew errors and strategy errors. A team like Ferrari should be less prone to mishaps compared to let's say Force India or STR. But in Felipe's case I doubt that actually true. Be my guest and compile a list of your own for any given driver.

It would be nice to see how compares to other Ferrari drivers like Michael, Eddie, Rubens, Kimi and Fernando once the team became competitive again.

You can exchange "luck" with unfavorable personal margins if the word "luck" is too banal.

#42 Villes Gilleneuve

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 13:49

For a driver who was ineffectual in a Sauber for 3 years I think he was extremely lucky to land a drive with the most highly sought after team on the grid and been with them for 5 years.


Even in retrospect, I still see no good reason why Ferrari ever hired Massa.

#43 e34

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 13:56

For a driver who was ineffectual in a Sauber for 3 years I think he was extremely lucky to land a drive with the most highly sought after team on the grid and been with them for 5 years.


But then, it is just fair to acknowledge that Massa has improved a lot during his years at Ferrari. Out to out, the team has made some mistakes that costed him a lot, he has also made mistakes that costed him / the team a lot, but five years down the road, I think Massa and Ferrari could be satisfied with their respective performances. With a bit more luck, he could have been WDC in 2008 (but we should not forget that that was the year where seemingly nobody wanted to take the championship home, a bit like this year).

Considering his pre-Ferrari career, I think it is reasonable to say that he was lucky to sign for Ferrari (it is true that you make your own luck, and getting Todt jr. as manager surely tilted a bit the scale), and his team-caused unlucky moments should be weighted against that fact.

Though I would not call him the most unlucky current F1 driver, I believe he is the most unhappy F1 driver. Apparently he was sure that he could dominate, or at least, be on par with Alonso, and that has not been the case. Probably he does not like Alonso and that is why he clearly antagonized him since the very beginning. Too bad that this year Alonso has utterly dominated him and established as the leader in the team. I think Massa misjudged the situation and has mismanaged it from minute one. And he has only himself to blame for that.

#44 Villes Gilleneuve

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 13:57

There is no such thing as luck.

Anyone who actually believes that luck plays any part in their lives or future is nothing more than a loser looking for excuses as to why they are not successful.


There are a lot of hard working people who are not successful, there are a lot of dimwitted celebrities who made their place in the world by simple fortunes.
Any successful businessman tell you that chance plays a large role in success -it's just that the harder you work, the better your chances.
People who make trite claims like yours usually grow up in white middle class society. Try being born to a poor family in Calcutta.

But this is about F1, you cannot seriously tell us that people are not working hard with talent to get into F1 -but they are pushed aside for kids "lucky" enough to be born to rich families, or ex-F1 drivers.
F1 'success' has a lot of nepotism involved.

#45 ivanalesi

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 15:23

Even in retrospect, I still see no good reason why Ferrari ever hired Massa.


He was followed by Ferrari since end of 2001, he was chosen thanks to his F3000 performance & then he simply delivered. There were other drivers who were in the same situation and just didn't deliver. Remember that during this period, if Ferrari wished they could have access to Sauber's data, so they clearly knew what they were getting. He always had the speed, it was just a couple of bad races which earned his bad reputation. He was then given the chance to deliver in 2006, did it and effectively earned his chance to have a long Ferrari career.

#46 Henrytheeigth

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 15:29

"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" Obi-Wan Kenobi

#47 VicR

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 18:45

"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" Obi-Wan Kenobi


"Everything in life is luck" - Donald Trump

#48 barni

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 19:50

he should have been 2008 champion, but it was not the question of bad luck he couldn`t achieve that. if he only had not spun out in first 2 races he wouldn`t have needed to wait for brasil to win.
yes, he was unlucky in hungary and especially in singapore, considering our hindsight knowledge of that race. but, on the other hand, wasn`t he lucky that he raced hotheaded hamilton in that maclaren so he was able to hunt wdc till last race?

#49 MrAerodynamicist

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 19:53

It takes a certain kind of luck to crash in to somebody and them to get the penalty...

(see Japan 2008)

#50 rabbitleader

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 19:58

he should have been 2008 champion, but it was not the question of bad luck he couldn`t achieve that. if he only had not spun out in first 2 races he wouldn`t have needed to wait for brasil to win.
yes, he was unlucky in hungary and especially in singapore, considering our hindsight knowledge of that race. but, on the other hand, wasn`t he lucky that he raced hotheaded hamilton in that maclaren so he was able to hunt wdc till last race?


:rotfl: :rotfl:

Only with FIA help at Spa 2008 to steal the win from Hamilton. The WDC would have been wrapped up well before the final race.

Edited by rabbitleader, 27 October 2010 - 20:01.