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Artifically heating a circuit


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#1 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 07:43

I on't know how much truth there is to this article - http://www.motorspor...p...92672&FS=F1 - but it does raise an interesting prospect: artificially heating a circuit. There have been calls for a French Grand Prix to visit Paul Ricard because the circuit can be flooded at will (or at least, it used to be) to simulate wet-weater conditions, so I don't think this is any more artifical. I think it could certanly be an interesting feature, particularly if the organisers could heat the circuit to the point where tyre wear increases so much that teams would be forced to seriously consider a second pit stop.

Thoughts?

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#2 Andrew Hope

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 07:46

I would absolutely hate this. The less people **** with this sport, the better.

#3 jcbc3

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 07:46

I would love to have the plumbing contract on that venture!

#4 cheapracer

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 07:48

I can't believe all the bullshit surrounding artificial crap ideas to promote good racing that simply needs fixing from it's very foundation rather than bandaids being applied.

I'm not damning you for stupid ideas, it's the FIA's fault that they are even being touted.

#5 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 07:49

I would absolutely hate this. The less people **** with this sport, the better.

What if it could produce better racing? It wouldn't be a guarantee, but what if it could produce more-exciting racing?

#6 Andrew Hope

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 07:55

I think in theory it could be a good idea, shorter tire life is always a good thing from a fan's perspective, but in practice, it would be awful. It would either make no difference at all, or barbecue the tires after five laps, and it wouldn't be long before someone got the bright idea to use it to make sure any specks of rain evaporate like a puddle on a summer day, robbing us of scenes like that at the end of the 2008 Belgian GP.

In short, no matter how good an idea is, I don't trust the people who would be in charge of it to implement it correctly.

#7 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 07:55

I on't know how much truth there is to this article - http://www.motorspor...p...92672&FS=F1 - but it does raise an interesting prospect: artificially heating a circuit. There have been calls for a French Grand Prix to visit Paul Ricard because the circuit can be flooded at will (or at least, it used to be) to simulate wet-weater conditions, so I don't think this is any more artifical. I think it could certanly be an interesting feature, particularly if the organisers could heat the circuit to the point where tyre wear increases so much that teams would be forced to seriously consider a second pit stop.

Thoughts?


A waste of money, energy and synaptic activity, to even contemplate the idea. :down:


#8 DILLIGAF

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 08:00

I think it could certanly be an interesting feature, particularly if the organisers could heat the circuit to the point where tyre wear increases so much that teams would be forced to seriously consider a second pit stop.

Thoughts?


Wouldn't it be cheaper to just produce tyres that don't last as long as they do currently?

#9 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 08:07

Wouldn't it be cheaper to just produce tyres that don't last as long as they do currently?

It would be - but tyre manufacturers won't do it. They have their own image to worry about; it doesn't look good for them if their tyres fall apart after five laps all on their own.

#10 Jazza

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 08:10

The environmentalist complain about the pollution from the cars, and these fellows want to heat 7km of race track to a point that it would actually affect the tyres on the car?

I also wonder what type of shoes the marshals will wear? :rolleyes:

#11 engel

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 08:18

Isn't it a bit of a silly idea? You can achieve the exact same thing by making tyre compounds less durable. Plus you don't have to waste all that energy heating up 5-7km of race track.

#12 jez33

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 08:22

It would be - but tyre manufacturers won't do it. They have their own image to worry about; it doesn't look good for them if their tyres fall apart after five laps all on their own.


Then why not commission a tyre company to produce tyres that are unbranded but to whatever spec will produce better racing?

#13 DILLIGAF

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 08:41

Then why not commission a tyre company to produce tyres that are unbranded but to whatever spec will produce better racing?


But if the tyre company can't display their brand why would they want to be involved in the first place? What about only producing the soft option tyres maybe?

Edited by DILLIGAF, 29 October 2010 - 08:41.


#14 engel

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 08:48

But if the tyre company can't display their brand why would they want to be involved in the first place? What about only producing the soft option tyres maybe?


Because they are paid to produce a product?

#15 DILLIGAF

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 09:06

Because they are paid to produce a product?


Yes, of course, sorry. :blush: I was more thinking about the marketing side of it for the tyre manufacturer.


#16 One

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 09:08

waist of energy and takes a lot away fro driver's skill.

Let Formula One car race on ice if you want to race winter. Now that is where you need technology for. Good winter race tyre and skilled driver. Heated road? no way.

#17 Murphster

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 09:20

I can't believe all the bullshit surrounding artificial crap ideas to promote good racing that simply needs fixing from it's very foundation rather than bandaids being applied.

I'm not damning you for stupid ideas, it's the FIA's fault that they are even being touted.


This.

All we need is for F1 to sort itself out and start delivering cars that can actually race each other for 60 laps and we would not have to worry about ways to make things more competitive.

#18 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 09:26

Messing with or trying to replicate 'natural' conditions like rain and heated track surfaces would make the sport a laughing stock.

Better to adjust the existing tyre and fuel stop regulations for more exciting racing. Better still, a tyre war would really make for spectacular viewing. Unfortunately, cost cutting etc have relegated that idea to the bin.

#19 chdphd

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 10:02

Wouldn't it be better to cool the track instead?

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#20 Andrew Hope

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 10:09

It would be better to have tracks that aren't surrounded by parking lots of runoff. Maybe part of the reason the tyres last so long is because they never touch anything other than soft asphalt.

The FIA and the monkeys in suits that work for them all need a slap. Everything they do is essentially pulling the carpet over a hole in the floor.

#21 Johnrambo

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 10:25

Yeah let's dig out the last dinousaurs from the crust and heat a racetrack with them. Great idea! Not.

#22 hunnylander

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 10:28

Winter Grand Prix!

I would love to see a winter grand prix in the off season (in December or January). Maybe it wouldn't count to the Drivers' World Championship, but for the Constructors' for the coming season. Contracted drivers would be required by the regulations to participate. And they would be there for prestige, training, prizes and to entertain, as it would be a special one-of-a-kind one event per year.

It would be great against the F1 winter boredom.

I see this as a potential benefit of an artificially heated circuit.

#23 Andrew Hope

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 10:30

Why don't we just set the start finish line on fire, so drivers have to drive through a massive wall of flame once a lap? Would achieve the same end and look a hell of a lot cooler :smoking:.

#24 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 11:35

As a means of drying a circuit out to resume testing in the desired dry conditions, yes, it sounds good for tyre manufacturers.

For F1 races, NO, NO and NO. F1 needs more variables, not less.

The only racing series I can see making good use of this tech are oval series where they are only allowed to race in dry conditions like NASCAR and IRL.

#25 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 11:42

For F1 races, NO, NO and NO. F1 needs more variables, not less.

I think the suggestion is more to heat the circuit - or at least part of it - to create that variable rather than take it away. The circuit would be heated to increase tyre wear, not to burn off water.

#26 Jazza

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 11:51

Any track hot enough to noticeably affect tyre wear will cause the track to wear out first. I've seen tracks at over 50C (and even heard off tracks getting over 60C) and cars weren't jumping in the pits any more than normal.

It would take an insane amount of energy to get any meaningful temperature in the track, and once you got there, the track would probably start to fall apart.

#27 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 11:51

Winter Grand Prix!

I would love to see a winter grand prix in the off season

There's one already. It's called pre-season testing. ;)


#28 ivanalesi

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 11:56

The original idea is to heat the circuit, so that it's possible to go winter testing in better conditions, not racing.
You know, I'm not sure who is going to stay in the winter cold to watch cars!? Also heating the whole track is not exactly green, so it's a very tough sell for F1 or any manufacturer series. For testing it's fantastic, but forget about racing. In fact none has ever mentioned changing the track temperature during races, it's all about winter testing.

#29 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 13:46

I think the suggestion is more to heat the circuit - or at least part of it - to create that variable rather than take it away. The circuit would be heated to increase tyre wear, not to burn off water.


If you want to increase tyre wear just change the tyre compounds. A lot cheaper.

#30 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 23:45

If you want to increase tyre wear just change the tyre compounds. A lot cheaper.

But as has been said, tyre manufacturers are in the sport for the publicity. They're not going to make a tyre that falls to pieces after five or ten laps. It's bad for their image.

#31 simplyfast

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 00:45

I think the suggestion is more to heat the circuit - or at least part of it - to create that variable rather than take it away. The circuit would be heated to increase tyre wear, not to burn off water.


and you don't think it would also get used in the case of even a damp track?
remember all the childish wimps at the last race just because it was wet.
If they could dry the track they would and before too long every team would be demanding that the track was atleast 50 degrees and bone dry before they ever put a car on it.

#32 Don_Humpador

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 00:59

But as has been said, tyre manufacturers are in the sport for the publicity. They're not going to make a tyre that falls to pieces after five or ten laps. It's bad for their image.


Surely the brand image isn't going to be done a lot of good if the track is heated and destroys the tyres. Average Joe walks in and turns on the TV, he's not gonna know the difference ; either way, the tyres are falling to bits.

#33 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 01:03

Surely the brand image isn't going to be done a lot of good if the track is heated and destroys the tyres. Average Joe walks in and turns on the TV, he's not gonna know the difference ; either way, the tyres are falling to bits.

True, but the ability and decision to heat a circuit are outside a tyre manufacturer's sphere of control. They will do everything in their power to make sturdy tyres.

#34 Jazza

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 01:34

True, but the ability and decision to heat a circuit are outside a tyre manufacturer's sphere of control. They will do everything in their power to make sturdy tyres.


How hot does this track have to get to do that? Tyre temps are well over 100C, and we have seen many F1 races with track temps of over 50C and they didn't pit any more than normal.

Any track hot enough to have a meaningful affect on the tyres will end up falling apart itself. (Plus the radiating heat off the track will probably affect the cooling of the cars more than the tyres.)

#35 DILLIGAF

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 08:26

The original idea is to heat the circuit, so that it's possible to go winter testing in better conditions, not racing.
You know, I'm not sure who is going to stay in the winter cold to watch cars!? Also heating the whole track is not exactly green, so it's a very tough sell for F1 or any manufacturer series. For testing it's fantastic, but forget about racing. In fact none has ever mentioned changing the track temperature during races, it's all about winter testing.


If it's more winter testing they want why not just head to countries where the climate is more suitable? Basically all of sth east asia, sth america etc. Unless of course they need to be very close to the factory when testing obviously.

#36 alfista

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 09:39

Winter Grand Prix!

I would love to see a winter grand prix in the off season (in December or January). Maybe it wouldn't count to the Drivers' World Championship, but for the Constructors' for the coming season. Contracted drivers would be required by the regulations to participate. And they would be there for prestige, training, prizes and to entertain, as it would be a special one-of-a-kind one event per year.


I don't understand why people started to talk about heating the track to influence tyre wear. IMO it's clear the heating should be used when weather is too cold. But then they also need to have heated run-offs and gravel traps. A few years ago there was a late autumn race in Hockenheim which was cancelled because overnight sub-zero temperatures left gravel traps frozen while track itself was OK to race.

#37 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 11:22

I would love to see a winter grand prix in the off season (in December or January). Maybe it wouldn't count to the Drivers' World Championship, but for the Constructors' for the coming season. Contracted drivers would be required by the regulations to participate. And they would be there for prestige, training, prizes and to entertain, as it would be a special one-of-a-kind one event per year.

Non-championship races are pointless.

#38 ivanalesi

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 11:23

But as has been said, tyre manufacturers are in the sport for the publicity. They're not going to make a tyre that falls to pieces after five or ten laps. It's bad for their image.


Not Avon! They offered, but for whatever reason their bid was turned down. Avon will produce you whatever type of tire you want & I'm sure they would agree to remove their logo if needed as long as the teams pay for their tires. It's their business, to make tires for all kinds of racing applications.

#39 Tufty

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 13:41

Non-championship races are pointless.

Isn't that kind of the idea of a NON championship race? :p

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#40 Villes Gilleneuve

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 15:42

What if it could produce better racing? It wouldn't be a guarantee, but what if it could produce more-exciting racing?


Then you have fake racing. If you like this, see NASCAR, where they throw a yellow flag every time a sponsor sticker is starting to peel.


I doubt heating or flooding an entire track is part of the "green" future of F1.