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Brabham F3 information


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#1 doc knutsen

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 20:30

A friend has been offered a BT41/Vegantune at an attractive price, and the vendor says it is an ex-Ulf Svensson car (a leading F3 exponent for many years, and Brabham agent for Scandinavia)
My fiend realises that the BT41 is not one of the best cars that ever emerged from Motor Racing Developments, and he is a little wary as the car has been for sale for a number of years but arousing, its seems, very little interest. Its chassis number is 14S.
Does anybody have any information about the BT41 series, and particularly chassis 14S? Is there a Brabham chassis register anywhere?

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#2 MCS

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 21:05

14S sounds a bit odd - but I never did find my chassis numbers book.

Is the bodywork red?

#3 Cirrus

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 22:56

This is all from memory...

The BT41 was not as good as the March 733, but there's no reason why a decent driver shouldn't be competitive in one today. 1600 F3 cars are currently being encouraged to join the Classic F3 ranks in the UK, and their values might increase as a result. Ulf Svensson's Ralts were red, but something in the back of my mind makes me think his BT41 was green. As far as I can remember, he raced the car in 1973 and 1974, prior to becoming the Ralt agent for Scandinavia. His cars were always immaculate, by the way.

The BT41 was part of the final range of customer Brabhams, and the BCE influence meant that they were well-finished, with lots of nickel plating etc. Gordon Murray did most of the design work, but the cars didn't get the necessary attention as he was rather busy designing some elegant F1 cars at the same time. I think there were about 25 BT41s in total.

Like I said, all from memory, so don't take any of the above as gospel.

#4 David McKinney

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 06:49

14S sounds a bit odd - but I never did find my chassis numbers book.

That's the number Per Gjerdrum (Norway) was using when he was trying to sell the ex-Svensson car at the end of 2002



#5 Chris Townsend

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 07:58

A friend has been offered a BT41/Vegantune at an attractive price, and the vendor says it is an ex-Ulf Svensson car (a leading F3 exponent for many years, and Brabham agent for Scandinavia)
My fiend realises that the BT41 is not one of the best cars that ever emerged from Motor Racing Developments, and he is a little wary as the car has been for sale for a number of years but arousing, its seems, very little interest. Its chassis number is 14S.
Does anybody have any information about the BT41 series, and particularly chassis 14S? Is there a Brabham chassis register anywhere?


That number is noted in period, though not until 1975. It's recorded by Formula One Register in Swedish races

Svensson gets chassis 41-14 new - that noted several times in 1973 in UK and Sweden, and in Sweden up to mid 70s
At some point there is both a 14S and a 14, one of which goes from Ulf Svensson to Lars Svensson and the other with another Swedish driver. This suggests to me that Svensson had a new car built at some point, probably after a shunt in 14, and then rebuilt the original car.
But, certainly, the number is genuine and the chassis has a traceable history, although the MRD records don't seem to have survived - at least not from 1973

If your friend is genuinely interested in buying the car and would like a traced history get him to contact me on chris[AT]oldracingcars[DOT]com

#6 Stephen W

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 12:55

This is all from memory...

The BT41 was not as good as the March 733, but there's no reason why a decent driver shouldn't be competitive in one today. 1600 F3 cars are currently being encouraged to join the Classic F3 ranks in the UK, and their values might increase as a result. Ulf Svensson's Ralts were red, but something in the back of my mind makes me think his BT41 was green. As far as I can remember, he raced the car in 1973 and 1974, prior to becoming the Ralt agent for Scandinavia. His cars were always immaculate, by the way.

The BT41 was part of the final range of customer Brabhams, and the BCE influence meant that they were well-finished, with lots of nickel plating etc. Gordon Murray did most of the design work, but the cars didn't get the necessary attention as he was rather busy designing some elegant F1 cars at the same time. I think there were about 25 BT41s in total.

Like I said, all from memory, so don't take any of the above as gospel.


I suspect that the BT41 chassis didn't get the same intencity of development that March for example got. They were more successful on the continent than in the UK.

#7 doc knutsen

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 16:12

That's the number Per Gjerdrum (Norway) was using when he was trying to sell the ex-Svensson car at the end of 2002


It is that very car, still owned by the Gjerdrum family. Incidentally, Mads (son of Per) is the feller who runs the Broadspeed Capri reconstruction in Historic racing in Scandinavia.
(The car which was featured extensively in British magazines a couple of years back.)


#8 doc knutsen

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 16:14

That number is noted in period, though not until 1975. It's recorded by Formula One Register in Swedish races

Svensson gets chassis 41-14 new - that noted several times in 1973 in UK and Sweden, and in Sweden up to mid 70s
At some point there is both a 14S and a 14, one of which goes from Ulf Svensson to Lars Svensson and the other with another Swedish driver. This suggests to me that Svensson had a new car built at some point, probably after a shunt in 14, and then rebuilt the original car.
But, certainly, the number is genuine and the chassis has a traceable history, although the MRD records don't seem to have survived - at least not from 1973

If your friend is genuinely interested in buying the car and would like a traced history get him to contact me on chris[AT]oldracingcars[DOT]com


Thank you very much for that. I am certain he will be in touch before too long.


#9 MCS

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 19:02

I suspect that the BT41 chassis didn't get the same intencity of development that March for example got. They were more successful on the continent than in the UK.


I'm sure you are absolutely correct, Steve. Much the same with the Formula Two BT40 - although the BMW engine in the March 732s was a significant factor.

In F3 Damien Magee ran well early in the season with his BT41, but faded and Larry Perkins produced some good performances with a works car once he'd given up with his year-old GRD. Was this the ex-Gerber car though?

Edited by MCS, 03 November 2010 - 19:03.


#10 Chris Townsend

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 19:42

I'm sure you are absolutely correct, Steve. Much the same with the Formula Two BT40 - although the BMW engine in the March 732s was a significant factor.

In F3 Damien Magee ran well early in the season with his BT41, but faded and Larry Perkins produced some good performances with a works car once he'd given up with his year-old GRD. Was this the ex-Gerber car though?


Think that Perkins ran the original MRD development car used early in the season by Tony Trimmer and Johnny Gerber. Gerber used a second car later in the season though, and appears in it at the same time as Perkins uses a BT41. Perkins got given the Brabham drive after he wrecked his GRD at Paul Ricard in July.

#11 Dag1

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 12:32

Hello all ! Being new to this excellent forum, I can reveal myself as the one considering aquiring this Brabham BT 41. I am truly greatfull for the information provided here, and can inform you that I managed to get in touch with Ulf Svensson on the phone last week. Being 75 years now, his memory of chassis 14S was still very clear, and just talking to him was for me a travel in history of immense pleasure! I asked him what the "S" was, and he told me that he had assembled the car himself from a new monocoque "bought from the stock of Ecclestone, when he descided there was no more money in F3......". Using all new parts from his own stock of spares, he created 14S, - so "S" stands for "Svensson"...... :)
Ulf Svensson was very enthusiastic abt. the car, and said he felt quite young, "having just celebrated his 19th birthday......." . ( He is born on the 29th. og February.....!!)
I promised him to let him know as soon as I had the BT in my garage...!

Dag-Henning

#12 SJ Lambert

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 10:54

Good Luck with it Dag1, be sure to post some shots of it once you've got the BT in your shed!

#13 bschenker

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 12:35

Sorry I have a problem with the years.

The BT41 is from 1973, it's 37 years from today. It's imposibel the 19 Years when Ulf Svenson has now 75 Years. Was mayby an other car?

.

.

#14 Tim Murray

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 12:55

There's a bit of confusion here, and I think Dag1 might have got his facts slightly wrong. Ulf Svensson was born on 29th February 1936, so is now 74 years old. However, as 29th February only occurs every four years in Leap Years, technically he has only been able to celebrate his birthday on 29th February on 18 occasions, and will have his '19th' birthday on 29th February 2012. This has nothing to do with his age when he owned the BT41. Hope this clears up any confusion. :)

#15 bschenker

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 14:25

All clear now.

#16 Dag1

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 10:35

- yes, that was the essence of the joke..... :) - and for the facts; Ulf Svensson said he had assemble 14S i -74/75.

Dag