38 replies to this topic

[Dolph]

Since 1970 there has been only two seasons where a driver has not been disqualified from a Formula 1 race. With two races to go 2010 could be one of those squeaky clean seasons

It's a dumb statistical fact, I know.

[ClubmanGT]

Since 1970 there has been only two seasons where a driver has not been disqualified from a Formula 1 race. With two races to go 2010 could be one of those squeaky clean seasons

It's a dumb statistical fact, I know.

Not dumb at all. This year has seen a lot of reprimands dished out repeatedly to some drivers. To their credit, they have not infringed again.

[King Six]

So I was like no way can this fool be right, but it seems he is

well.....

[Fastcake]

Still two races to go.....

Well don't count your chickens and all that.

[kandru]

Since 1970 there has been only two seasons where a driver has not been disqualified from a Formula 1 race. With two races to go 2010 could be one of those squeaky clean seasons

It's a dumb statistical fact, I know.

you mean black-flagged or disqualified? Cos I don't think there have been that many black flags throughout the last 10 season. Furthermore, I would say there have been just 3...but who knows, I've got a weak memory sometimes

[aditya-now]

Since 1970 there has been only two seasons where a driver has not been disqualified from a Formula 1 race. With two races to go 2010 could be one of those squeaky clean seasons

It's a dumb statistical fact, I know.

Not dumb at all. It has Todt´s handwriting all over it...

[ManiaMuse]

you mean black-flagged or disqualified? Cos I don't think there have been that many black flags throughout the last 10 season. Furthermore, I would say there have been just 3...but who knows, I've got a weak memory sometimes

All I can think of off the top of my head in recent years are

- Honda drivers for their dodgy fuel tanks
- Hamilton for lying last year
- Schuey on Villeneuve

and then
- Spygate, though that was only the team disqualified
- Renault were threatened with a ban last year after letting Alonso continue driving with the wheel spinner not on properly

I think I'm missing a few ? I'm guessing this is a natural follow up to the 'Will Ferrari tell Massa to take out Webber' thread...

[nordschleife]

Good stuff, dolph. Obscure facts aren't necessarily trivial.

[Andrew Hope]

I miss black flags. And oil flags. And the trusty ol' meatball flag.

I got a black flag and a meatball flag at the same time when karting once. Some lamer in front of me ate it into the tires and bounced back across the road and his left side 'bumper' (i.e. little plastic rectangle) broke off when I just nicked him coming back across the track, and it bounced into my lap. I drove around for a lap holding onto it before it occured to me to chuck it into the pits next lap around after I'd gotten the flags .

Edited by andrew., 03 November 2010 - 22:52.

[george1981]

Quite a few people have jumped red lights in pit lanes resulting in being black flagged. I remember Frentzen, Montoya and Massa doing it over the last 10 years or so.

[KateLM]

Well, Schumacher probably would have been black flagged in Hungary if it hadn't been so close to the end of the race. But its still an interesting stat.

[HappySachs]

I miss black flags. And oil flags. And the trusty ol' meatball flag.

I miss the driving standards flag, they could have nailed it to Sutil's pit board in Korea.

[Les]

The notorious red light at the end of the pitlane in Montreal has seen a few drivers disqualified for leaving the pits whilst it was on. Off the top of my head I'm pretty sure Montoya and Massa drove though it and got black flagged for their troubles.

[stevewf1]

Since 1970 there has been only two seasons where a driver has not been disqualified from a Formula 1 race. With two races to go 2010 could be one of those squeaky clean seasons

It's a dumb statistical fact, I know.

According to my database there have been 112 DQs since 1950.

Not to argue, but my database shows the following years without a DQ classification* (if it can be called that): 1950, 51, 53, 55, 57, 58, 62, 65, 67, 69, 70, 80, 84 and 03...

By no means am I saying I'm right, but that's what I came up with.

(building a detailed database is a very tedious and difficult thing to do)

*I'm thinking a disqualification and exclusion are two different things.

[Shevek]

According to my database there have been 112 DQs since 1950.

Not to argue, but my database shows the following years without a DQ classification* (if it can be called that): 1950, 51, 53, 55, 57, 58, 62, 65, 67, 69, 70, 80, 84 and 03...

By no means am I saying I'm right, but that's what I came up with.

(building a detailed database is a very tedious and difficult thing to do)

*I'm thinking a disqualification and exclusion are two different things.

Wikipedia does not agree with you for 1984.

1984

but it is true that for 2003 it does not show any DSQ.

[kandru]

All I can think of off the top of my head in recent years are

- Honda drivers for their dodgy fuel tanks
- Hamilton for lying last year
- Schuey on Villeneuve

and then
- Spygate, though that was only the team disqualified
- Renault were threatened with a ban last year after letting Alonso continue driving with the wheel spinner not on properly

I think I'm missing a few ? I'm guessing this is a natural follow up to the 'Will Ferrari tell Massa to take out Webber' thread...

- Massa and Fisichella for jumping the red light at the end of the pits in Canada.
- Juan Pablo Montoya for using an illegal spare car at the USA GP

[smitten]

Interesting statistic.

What I find particularly interesting is trying to understand why. If stevewf1 is right then there have been only two years without a DQ since 1970; does this coincide with F1 becoming more of a business than a sport and the corresponding financial benefits of doing well? Or am I reading too much into that? Maybe it is improvements in scrutineering and stewarding to catch infraction...

This year we have seen a much more 'softly softly' approach from the steward, in part no doubt due to the ex-driver representation. Is this a response to the internet exploding with comments about the championship being decided off the track after controversial incidents like Spa 08 (and many others)?

[kandru]

Interesting statistic.

What I find particularly interesting is trying to understand why. If stevewf1 is right then there have been only two years without a DQ since 1970; does this coincide with F1 becoming more of a business than a sport and the corresponding financial benefits of doing well? Or am I reading too much into that? Maybe it is improvements in scrutineering and stewarding to catch infraction...

This year we have seen a much more 'softly softly' approach from the steward, in part no doubt due to the ex-driver representation. Is this a response to the internet exploding with comments about the championship being decided off the track after controversial incidents like Spa 08 (and many others)?

which are those two years? 2009 and...?

[smitten]

which are those two years? 2009 and...?

About 3 posts up - '80 and '03.

[Bleu]

There aren't many situations where driver has been disqualified for dodgy driving. Sato in Japan 2005 comes to my mind, but it was not the only incident he had that year so that presumably caused partly more serious penalty (although it wasn't that much, since he was not getting points anyway). Even that year there was some more DQs.

[undersquare]

One thing that puzzled me this year is when Red Bull turned up with an illegal car with aero suspension, and I'd have thought McLaren would have let it race and then protested it to get then DQ'd. But instead Paddy Lowe raised it at the beginning of the Turkey weekend and Red Bull just covered them up/swapped them out.

Sounds like they raced Spain and Monaco with them as well.

F1Fanatic

[cheapracer]

Why would they disqualify Alonso because Massa slowed down? Unless they DQed both Ferraris.

If they both played the game they should be both booted not just one.

[thiscocks]

In 1989 there were no less than 8 race disqualifictions! Must be a record?

[Gareth]

Off topic posts deleted. I think we have enough Ferrari team orders discussions to not make this thread another one. Please try and stay on topic, thanks.

[kandru]

About 3 posts up - '80 and '03.

there was no one disqualified in 2009 either as far as I know

[Nonesuch]

there was no one disqualified in 2009 either as far as I know

Hamilton was disqualified in Australia because of this incident and its aftermath.

Edited by Nonesuch, 04 November 2010 - 11:27.

[nomeg1]

Hamilton was disqualified in Australia because of this incident and its aftermath.

Nice one thanks Nonesuch !

[wingwalker]

There aren't many situations where driver has been disqualified for dodgy driving. Sato in Japan 2005 comes to my mind, but it was not the only incident he had that year so that presumably caused partly more serious penalty (although it wasn't that much, since he was not getting points anyway). Even that year there was some more DQs.

Not a DQ, but Yuiji Ide had his licecense revoked in 2006.

[kandru]

Hamilton was disqualified in Australia because of this incident and its aftermath.

ok, now I perfectly understand...we are not talking about black flags...just disqualifying decisions

[Gareth]

According to my database there have been 112 DQs since 1950.

Not to argue, but my database shows the following years without a DQ classification* (if it can be called that): 1950, 51, 53, 55, 57, 58, 62, 65, 67, 69, 70, 80, 84 and 03...

By no means am I saying I'm right, but that's what I came up with.

(building a detailed database is a very tedious and difficult thing to do)

*I'm thinking a disqualification and exclusion are two different things.

84 had Winkelhock DQ'd for a push start, according to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia....lian_Grand_Prix

[HappySachs]

Didn't Mansell get a DQ for reversing in the pit lane after overshooting his box?


EDIT: google says yes:
1989 Portuguese Grand Prix : Nigel Mansell, reversing in pits and subsequently ignoring black flag

Edited by HappySachs, 04 November 2010 - 14:45.

[metz]

We have had several post race technical DQs for oversized brake ducts. I believe BMW, Williams and Toyota.

[Mary Popsins]

Off topic posts deleted. I think we have enough Ferrari team orders discussions to not make this thread another one. Please try and stay on topic, thanks.

You might add that in the house rules, that could include any form of joke.

[stevewf1]

84 had Winkelhock DQ'd for a push start, according to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia....lian_Grand_Prix

According to FORIX, Winkelhock was excluded from the meeting on Saturday afternoon because he was pushed down the pit lane.

This site also shows Winkelhock as being excluded: http://www.statsf1.c...classement.aspx

It's picking nits, I know, but I count a disqualification and an exclusion differently.... and I also know there is going to be an exception to every rule.

EDIT: I originally quoted directly from FORIX, but maybe it's not a good idea to do that from a pay site...

Edited by stevewf1, 06 November 2010 - 02:12.

[Gareth]

Looking at the current ISC steve, I think the problem is that what most disqualification for the FIA is different to what most motorsport fans use the term for.

Disqualification in the ISC seems to mean not being allowed to participate in any FIA competition; whereas your average fan (certainly me, anyway) would consider disqualification to mean being DQ'd from an event.

Exclusion under the ISC is being prevented from running in a single competition.

So I think where the OP uses disqualification what is probably technically meant under the FIA rules is exclusion? And what you read on a site (such as Forix or Wikipedia) depends on whether they are using technical FIA parlance or lay person's.

Some relevent paras from the ISC are below:

162 A sentence of disqualification shall entail the permanent loss for the person disqualified of any right to take part in any capacity whatsoever in any competition, except in cases provided for under Articles 170 and 183.

158 A sentence of exclusion may be pronounced by the stewards of the meeting under the conditions provided for in Article 141. The person so sentenced shall thereby be excluded from taking part in one or more competitions at a meeting.

[stevewf1]

Looking at the current ISC steve, I think the problem is that what most disqualification for the FIA is different to what most motorsport fans use the term for.

Disqualification in the ISC seems to mean not being allowed to participate in any FIA competition; whereas your average fan (certainly me, anyway) would consider disqualification to mean being DQ'd from an event.

Exclusion under the ISC is being prevented from running in a single competition.

So I think where the OP uses disqualification what is probably technically meant under the FIA rules is exclusion? And what you read on a site (such as Forix or Wikipedia) depends on whether they are using technical FIA parlance or lay person's.

Some relevent paras from the ISC are below:

Thanks for the info. I never really knew the exact technical difference between the two, but I was mostly under the impression that a disqualification was a driver being thrown out of the final race results (push start for example) and an exclusion was a driver not being allowed to compete any further in the race meeting (missing a weight check in practice for example).

To the OP, Dolph, I wasn't trying to start an argument or dispute your facts. It's just that in my personal experience over the years of putting this database together, I've run into some "gray areas" here and there and I'm still trying to figure them out.

[William Hunt]

Very interesting that you noticed this Dolph, and not a dumb statistic at all. I guess Alonso was the closest to be almost disqualified this year in Hockenheim.

[Dolph]

Hi, guys! One race to go. Let's see if they make it!

[scheivlak]

Very interesting that you noticed this Dolph, and not a dumb statistic at all. I guess Alonso was the closest to be almost disqualified this year in Hockenheim.

No way.
In the most extreme case -very unlikely, though I would have found some punishment for the team completely fair- both Massa and Alonso would have been DQ'ed.

In a slightly less extreme case only Felipe Massa.
After all, strictly speaking, Felipe was guilty of following team orders, not Fernando.
Only if Fernando would not have passed Felipe when he was obviously slowing down he could have been accused of following team orders.

Because in that case questions would have arised why he didn't pass Felipe