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Massa to be arrested if helps alonso.


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#1 Sajuuk

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 15:01

Massa will be arrested if open for Alonso, says promoter

According to a note published in this Thursday in the newspaper Folha de S. Paulo ", prosecutor Paul Castillo, the Special Criminal Court, Felipe Massa promises to arrest if he step aside for his Ferrari team-mate Fernando Alonso in GP of Brazil on Sunday.

Based on the "Fan Statute," Castillo said the Brazilian driver could face up to six years in prison for "fraud" or "contribute to the fraud," the result of a sporting contest.

"If you do, he has to leave the Interlagos handcuffed," the prosecutor told the newspaper.

http://tazio.uol.com...1/textos/22175/

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#2 rm111

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 15:03

oh dear :lol:

#3 bauss

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 15:03

lol...isnt F1 a team sport. He should have been arrested in 07 then

#4 Seanspeed

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 15:04

Worst case of sour grapes ever. :lol:

There's no way this is true, though.

#5 Baddoer

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 15:04

Fisi to drive F10 in Abu Dhabi?

#6 SRi130Brett

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 15:18

It would solve a problem Ferrari have over getting rid of him for '11!!

#7 flyer121

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 15:19

Fisi to drive F10 in Abu Dhabi?


Why will Fisi come out of retirement

1> To first get embarrased like in 09
2> To risk an arrest in a country the laws may even be stricter ! assuming Abu Dhabi chose to follow up on Brazil. :)

An extra element in strategic planning for F1 team strategiests - be done with your team orders welll before you reach the end of the season.




#8 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 15:22

I thought this was a joke thread.

This is great. I love it. Free publicity for whatever prosecutor is announcing this. Is he up for reelection/reappointment soon?

#9 Louis Siefert

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 15:22

that would be an awesome first step towards returning this vulgar spectacle back into being a sport

#10 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 15:27

The FIA should announce the cancellation of the race today, just to scare the piss out of that guy.

#11 Lifew12

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 15:28

that would be an awesome first step towards returning this vulgar spectacle back into being a sport


You don't think, then, that the word 'team' means anything?

#12 Gareth

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 15:28

The FIA should announce the cancellation of the race today, just to scare the piss out of that guy.

That was pretty much the response the last time there was an attempt to get the local judiciary to have an impact on the running of a race, with Minardi/Stoddardt in Melbourne.

#13 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 15:31

I think you'd have a hard time prosecuting fraud, when the 'deception' is known ahead of time.

#14 Gareth

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 15:37

I assume this is the original article: http://www1.folha.uo...-promotor.shtml

And google translate version: http://translate.goo...=...l=&ie=UTF-8

Marmalade

#15 Massa_f1

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 15:39

Well i don't think the Brazilians will take to kindly to it happening again you have to see it from there point of view. Why turn up to hope Massa wins only to move over They have seen it once a 2nd time they wont be so kind.

However that said i don't think massa will be near the front this weekend so should be ok.

#16 JPW

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 15:50

The FIA should announce the cancellation of the race today, just to scare the piss out of that guy.

Nahh an official statement that things like this will cast a doubt over the future of the Brazilian GP should be enough to let that guy eat his words and start official apologies flying. It's in situations like this that Max is missed, he wouldn't have wasted an opportunity like that.  ;)


#17 Villes Gilleneuve

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 15:59

Castillo has a lot of time on his hands to care about a stupid car race -not enough crime in Brazil?

#18 jjcale

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 16:06

The nations honour is at stake... Brazil was once the land of the toughest men in F1... now it is known for F1's two biggest yes-men ...something must be done to stop the rot.

I'm with the prosecutor on this :lol:

#19 ManiaMuse

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 16:07

Ferrari aren't stupid, they know how much damage was done to their reputation after Hockenheim. They aren't going to want a repeat of it.....well at least for several years anyway.

If Massa is leading Alonso and Alonso is too slow/chicken to pass, then Ferrari will hold up Massa in the pits without saying anything on the radio. There are many subtle ways this can be done such as pitting Massa at a time when he will rejoin in traffic while leaving Alonso out for a few more laps.

If Ferrari were to do that there is absolutely nothing that anyone can do to prove that they were race fixing. All they have to say is that they got their strategy call wrong with Massa, or that they thought Massa might have had a slow puncture or something and needed to pit him for safety reasons.

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#20 Villes Gilleneuve

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 16:16

Ferrari aren't stupid, they know how much damage was done to their reputation after Hockenheim. They aren't going to want a repeat of it.....well at least for several years anyway.


Do you really think Ferrari cares? :rolleyes:

#21 cheapracer

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 16:19

There's no way this is true, though.


Why not, sports/race fixing carries big penalties in many countries - check out China Soccer scandal from last year, quite a number of people in jail over that.

Team orders are illegal I remind you too so the Prosecutor certainly has legs to stand on.

Ferrari aren't stupid, they know how much damage was done to their reputation after Hockenheim. They aren't going to want a repeat of it.....well at least for several years anyway.


You really think outside a couple of forums the general public gives a shit? All they see or hear is "Ferrari Wins!".

Edited by cheapracer, 04 November 2010 - 16:21.


#22 Diablobb81

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 16:20

We need a photoshop pic with a brazilian police car chasing Massa's Ferrari. :rotfl:

#23 hotstickyslick

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 16:21

Do you really think Ferrari cares? :rolleyes:

Um. The people who hate Ferrari will carry on hating even when their own teams carry out the same orders, the Ferrari fans will carry on loving and the people who have watched F1 for decades will accept team orders as part of the sport and not have a cow over it.

#24 D.M.N.

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 16:22

Fisi to drive F10 in Abu Dhabi?



Why will Fisi come out of retirement

1> To first get embarrased like in 09
2> To risk an arrest in a country the laws may even be stricter ! assuming Abu Dhabi chose to follow up on Brazil. :)

An extra element in strategic planning for F1 team strategiests - be done with your team orders welll before you reach the end of the season.


What? You meant you forgot about the WWOBBFAD campaign?

(otherwise known as We Want Our Badger Back For Abu Dhabi :p )

#25 Mika Mika

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 16:24

Massa will be arrested if open for Alonso, says promoter

According to a note published in this Thursday in the newspaper Folha de S. Paulo ", prosecutor Paul Castillo, the Special Criminal Court, Felipe Massa promises to arrest if he step aside for his Ferrari team-mate Fernando Alonso in GP of Brazil on Sunday.

Based on the "Fan Statute," Castillo said the Brazilian driver could face up to six years in prison for "fraud" or "contribute to the fraud," the result of a sporting contest.

"If you do, he has to leave the Interlagos handcuffed," the prosecutor told the newspaper.

http://tazio.uol.com...1/textos/22175/


Storm in a teacup....
Doubt he'd be infront of alonso anyway!!

#26 highdownforce

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 16:24

Castillo has a lot of time on his hands to care about a stupid car race -not enough crime in Brazil?

He is from the Special Criminal Court, that is related to small crimes or contraventions.

The article of the law is this one:

Law No. 10,671 of May 15, 2003. Statute of Defense of the Fan.

[...]

CHAPTER XI-A - CRIMES (Included by Law No. 12,299 from 2010).

[...]

Article 41-E. To defraud, by any means, or contribute to the fraud in any way the result of a sport competition: (Included by Law No. 12,299 from 2010).
Penalty - 2 (two) to 6 (six) years and fine. (Included by Law No. 12,299 from 2010).


The point is: By giving his position to Alonso, would Massa being committing a fraud?

Edited by highdownforce, 04 November 2010 - 16:28.


#27 fabr68

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 16:25

Castillo has a lot of time on his hands to care about a stupid car race -not enough crime in Brazil?


+1


How about putting handcuffs on the thieves and criminals that linger around the track to assault the Formula1 crews every year?

#28 Ferrari2183

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 16:26

So I take it everybody that lets their team-mate through will be prosecuted in Brazil based on this fan statute.

What a joke...

#29 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 16:26

He is from the Special Criminal Court, that is related to small crimes or contraventions.

The article of the law is this one:



The point is: By giving his position to Alonso, would Massa being committing a fraud?

What about cyclists who move over for their team leader? Any of them ever been prosecuted?

#30 flyer121

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 16:27

Btw a good way to motivate drivers ... Finish first otherwise you will be arrested.

.. only short of Win or Get a Podium Hanging !

#31 Gareth

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 16:28

The point is: By giving his position to Alonso, would Massa being committing a fraud?

There's no dishonesty: Ferrari, Massa and Alonso have been open about the possibility of a switcheroo in Brazil.

There's no personal gain for Massa.

So: no.

(Although the Brazilian definition of fraud could be different, I guess.)

#32 plastik2k9

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 16:29

Joking aside, I doubt the FIA would take kindly to this at all.. the implications of an F1 driver being arrested for something that happens on track are serious for the sport. Luckily I think this is just a statement for publicity.

#33 Ali_G

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 16:31

Say bye bye to the Brazilian GP if this even gets close to happening.

#34 cheapracer

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 16:31

Joking aside, I doubt the FIA would take kindly to this at all.. the implications of an F1 driver being arrested for something that happens on track are serious for the sport. Luckily I think this is just a statement for publicity.


The FIA have done no wrong and would announce it as a justfication of their own rules.


(otherwise known as We Want Our Badger Back For Abu Dhabi :p )


Oh yes awesome, and I really miss the idiots in "Live Chat" who constantly message "Badger Badger ....etc." during a race :rolleyes:

Edited by cheapracer, 04 November 2010 - 16:33.


#35 Mandzipop

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 16:32

He is from the Special Criminal Court, that is related to small crimes or contraventions.

The article of the law is this one:



The point is: By giving his position to Alonso, would Massa being committing a fraud?


As Massa has already said that he will help Alonso if he can, then no he wouldn't be committing fraud as it would be expected that he would do it.

If Massa also wants the numbers 1 and 2 on the car, the only way he can secure that is by giving way to Alonso. Not team orders hence not fraud.



#36 highdownforce

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 16:37

What about cyclists who move over for their team leader? Any of them ever been prosecuted?

This particular text of the law has less than six months. It would probably the very first use of it.

Edit:

Despite all of it, I have to say that it won't have a chance to happen. Besides that, I'm not sure if the Special Criminal Court would have a say on this as this court is limited to infractions or crimes with penalties of less than two years.

But I'm sure that a fine is possible.

Edited by highdownforce, 04 November 2010 - 16:41.


#37 ManiaMuse

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 16:38

Do you really think Ferrari cares? :rolleyes:

Even Ferrari have a quota of scandals that they can get away with each season. And repeating a scandal that happened earlier in the season is bad form imo.

Imagine what would have happen if Hamilton lied to the stewards again last season? I know Ferrari weren't given further punishment for Hockenheim, but I'm pretty sure that their management will be keen for it not to happen again this season (i.e., be subtle about it if you absolutely must).

Ferrari is the biggest brand in F1 by a long way, only Mclaren comes close, and scandals do effect there brand image.

#38 Willow Rosenberg

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 16:43

I wonder if the situations are reversed next year, will they threaten to arrest Alonso?

#39 highdownforce

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 16:50

I wonder if the situations are reversed next year, will they threaten to arrest Alonso?

My personal interpretation is that both scenarios are not a fraud.

Edit: An interesting question - that I'm not able to answer - would be: If FIA fines Ferrari for using team orders in Brazil, could that characterize a fraud?

Edited by highdownforce, 04 November 2010 - 16:53.


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#40 flyer121

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 16:50

Say bye bye to the Brazilian GP if this even gets close to happening.


To be fair - Brazilians have to put up with a lot of these orders because it has been usually the last or second last race.

And to make matters worse - its the Brazilian drivers at the receiving end most times. :)

#41 nomeg1

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 16:53

I don't believe that he will be arrested...

The crowd will lapidate him quicker :p
But, a funny one :D

#42 CaptainJackSparrow

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 16:59

This is awesome! Bring on the circus!!:)

#43 highdownforce

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 17:02

If past precedents means something in this case, in 2004 Brazilian authorities suspended the law against tobacco advertisement only for the weekend of the Brazilian GP.

Posted Image

So, again, no chance of this to happen.
It's just a promoter looking for headlines.

Edited by highdownforce, 04 November 2010 - 17:04.


#44 beute

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 17:03

lol...isnt F1 a team sport. He should have been arrested in 07 then


well, no one, really no one can prove that they had team orders back then...
he lost his place in the pits, they could've just blamed it on a poor pit stop or kimi beeing faster for that lap or whatever.
unless there were some obvious radio messages :D

they could do the same this year, even if OP is a true story... massa just looses time lap for lap, nothing to obvious, then pits and suddenly a tire is missing :>

#45 Dunder

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 17:05

This is just a case of a public servant who likes to see his name in the newspaper.



#46 Hypnotise

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 17:18

Well any publicity is good publicity

#47 nomeg1

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 17:23

Well any publicity is good publicity

Bad publicity usually has a boomerang effect though !

#48 EVO2

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 17:27

Not sure whether betting on sport is legal in Brazil but if anyone is stupid enough to place a bet on Massa to win the race they would certainly have an argument for a fraud having been committed if he moves over.

What happened to people who bet on Massa to win at Hockenheim ?

These latest developments show just what a minefield this is : We all know that "Team orders" is just a euphemism for fiddling the results and would be anathema in any other sport.
Ideally I would like to see some reorganisation of F1 whereby there is no incentive for a team to fiddle the results.

But short of moving to one car per team I can't see how it could be done.
Even then it might not work : there is nothing to stop another team, possibly a team that is an engine customer, being asked to swap places to let the driver from their engine supplier through to win a race important to a championship campaign.

It's rumoured to have happened before.......................

#49 lithium

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 17:38

Does this apply only to Brazilian drivers or, say, Button or Vettel too?
Anyways, Felipe in handcuffs.. what a story that would be :drunk:

Edited by lithium, 04 November 2010 - 17:38.


#50 Muz Bee

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 18:48

Nahh an official statement that things like this will cast a doubt over the future of the Brazilian GP should be enough to let that guy eat his words and start official apologies flying. It's in situations like this that Max is missed, he wouldn't have wasted an opportunity like that. ;)

Oh how we miss him, come back Max... :rolleyes: Certainly for discussion threads like this Max made for plenty of action, creating plenty of heat in the almost total lack of light.

Nah the whole thing can be dismissed as some journeyman lawyer gets shut down before he can endanger the event's presence on the calendar. Bernie is more than capable of dealing with the actions of an idiot like that.

On a lighter note, team orders fulfills one useful role - it gives fans an excuse for their driver's poor performances. :wave: