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Brazilian GP - first corner


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#1 Nitropower

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 19:34

Four drivers still able to win the championship and a surprise in the pole position.

Hulkenberg might do a good start and keep his position, and that will give chances to the men behind to overtake. However it is possible that he loses the 1st place at the start to Vettel or Webber which would be a great disadvantage to the men behind - most likely Hamilton/Alonso, because they'd lose ground to the RBs and would have to overtake a midfielder.

Vettel starts from 2nd and in theory he'd face a tough start as it's the dirty line. But it has been raining and it might still rain some hours before the race so the track will be clean and he might be able to start with no disadvantage. However, as any other racing weekend there might be other categories races and that might leave rubber in the clean side which would provide more grip to men starting from odds. He can overtake Hulkenberg but he must not risk a collision so he must be cautious. He must overtake from the outer line so he needs to be extremely careful and don't forget Webber is right next to him and in the clean side/inside.

Webber is in a good position, in the clean line and with his closest rivals behind. If he manages the first corner properly he might come out with a good pile of points and even the 1st place in the WDC standings.

Hamilton desperately needs to do something. It's gonna be a dry race so he won't have any advantage over the drivers ahead except Hulk. He must try and overtake somehow both Red Bulls so he really needs an aggresive approach but with brains. Otherwise he will start losing ground with them and it is not likely he will be able to do anything else.

Alonso will have a very hard time because he can't risk any collision with Hamilton, who looks more in need to do something, and he can't afford losing track on Webber. If he is lucky the guys in front will crash somehow or impede each other and so take advantage of it. Otherwise he'll have to do a conservative race and rely on his cars' pace, possibly better than the McLaren and the Williams. A 3d place would be very good for him and would force RedBull to make a final and difficult decision on team orders or not if they are to win the WDC in Abu Dhabi.

What are your thoughts?

Posted Image


Edited by Nitropower, 06 November 2010 - 21:15.


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#2 pinkypants

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 19:36

scared for lewis,

hoping for an alonso, webber crash, lewis 1st, hulk 2nd and barrachelleo/massa third.

Not going to happen but a girl can dream.

My head says Alonso will be a three times world champion tomorrow..

#3 Seanspeed

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 19:37

The person who can get around Hulkenberg quickest at the start will win the race. They say you cant win the race in the first corner, only lose it, but I disagree. :p

#4 korzeniow

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 19:39

We will see how Hulk will handle the pressure. Personally I think he won't

#5 TURU

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 19:43

What about this: Hulkenberg makes an awful start and causes a huge crash in T1. WWIII begins ............. :p

Speaking seriously - we will definetly see some action in top 10 on T1. I can see Lewis making some extremely aggresive moves.

Edited by TURU, 06 November 2010 - 19:43.


#6 Muppetmad

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 19:43

I can see a Japan 2008 type start happening where Barrichello or Kubica lead going into turn 4.

#7 CaptainJackSparrow

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 19:45

How nerve wracking will the start be tomorrow, the Hulk is a wildcard in there, anything could happen!

#8 Nitropower

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 19:50

Well I think I made a mistake. It looks like the dirty line here is where the poleman,Webber and Alonso are, right? In qualifying we've seen them drive over the external line. Most rubber should be where Vettel and Hamilton are. Remember in 2007 Raikkonen overtook Hamilton easily in the 1st corner (Massa blocked Hamilton though).

#9 jee

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 19:57

I just hope neither of the Red Bulls take the lead in Lap 1. When they dominated the races from the front they were often boring.

#10 katmen

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 19:58

definitely this forum will be temporary off, due the race outcome  ;)

#11 Nitropower

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 19:59

Well it looks quite likely that both get rid of Hulkenberg soon unless something extraordinary happens. And it will force Christian Horner make a decision over Webber vs Vettel if Alonso reaches 3d place.

#12 Crafty

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 20:00

Using google maps, pole is on the outside, which is the racing line, so pole is on the clean side I assume ?

http://maps.google.c...e....00284&z=19

As I said before with the rain today the track will be "green", presumably reducing the advantage of the "clean" side ?
So its the support races that will clean the track, anyone got a schedule for tomorrow ? BBC mentioned there aren't as many here as usual.



#13 alfa1

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 20:06

Well I think I made a mistake. It looks like the dirty line here is where the poleman,Webber and Alonso are, right?



Was thinking much the same thing, so I checked the video.
Here's one of last years Brazilian GP.
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

This year, Nico and Mark are on the right, the outside line going into the left hander turn 1.
Seb, if he makes a really good start, can duck in on the inside, but as you say its the dirty line. Of course a bit of rain might have evened things out a bit as well.

Last year the pole man made a good start and led the group away. The guy in second place on the 'dirty' line slotted into second place.

This year, its not too hard to believe that the order after the first corner will be the same a grid order (for the first three).

Looking at other years...
2008 was very wet, so perhaps I'll ignore that.
2007 - Pole man gets away well and stays in the lead, but second place Hamilton is swamped and drops back some places.
2006 - The first three go through the first corner in order.
2005 - The first three go through the first corner in order.
2004 - Drivers in first and third get away well to go into turn 1, but second place driver has an awful start and loses places.
2003 - Wet, Race started under safety car.
2002 - The first three go through the first corner in order.
2001 - Pole man gets away well. Second and third place drivers have horrible starts and lose places.

Never seen a pole man lose his place into turn 1, so far.
On past precedent, unless a driver badly messes their start, its gonna be 1, 2, 3 through turn 1.

Edited by alfa1, 06 November 2010 - 20:38.


#14 Nitropower

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 20:09

Was thinking much the same thing, so I checked the video.
Here's one of last years Brazilian GP.
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

This year, Nico and Mark are on the right, the outside line going into the left hander turn 1.
Seb, if he makes a really good start, can duck in on the inside, but as you say its the dirty line. Of course a bit of rain might have evened things out a bit as well.

Last year the pole man made a good start and led the group away. The guy in second place on the 'dirty' line slotted into second place.

This year, its not too hard to believe that the order after the first corner will be the same a grid order (for the first three).


You are right. The picture I posted is not correct. Poleman is to the right, 2nd to the left.

#15 midgrid

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 20:11

First lap incidents at Interlagos:

2009 - Kovalainen spins in the Senna S, Raikkonen loses his front wing against Webber approaching Descida do Lago, Trulli and Sutil collide on the exit of Descida do Lago and collect Alonso at Ferradura.
2008 - Piquet spins into the wall at the exit of the Senna S.
2007 - Hamilton runs wide at Descida do Lago.
2006 - Rosberg runs into Webber at Descida do Lago, and then crashes at Subida dos Boxes.
2005 - Webber, Pizzonia and Coulthard collide approaching the Senna S.
2004 - Clean start.
2003 - Safety Car start.
2002 - Montoya loses his front wing against Michael Schumacher approaching Descida do Lago; McNish's car is damaged by flying debris.
2001 - Hakkinen stalls, Barrichello runs into Ralf Schumacher at Descida do Lago.
2000 - Clean start.
1999 - Clean start.
1998 - Ralf Schumacher spins off at Descida do Lago.
1997 - Barrichello stalls, Villeneuve and Frentzen run wide at the Senna S, Fisichella is tipped into a spin by Hill further back and Irvine runs into the back of Herbert at the same point. The race is re-started, Katayama stalls.
1996 - Marques spins off.
1995 - Panis spins off at the Senna S after a nudge from Katayama.
1994 - Clean start.
1993 - Berger and Andretti collide approaching the Senna S, Brundle and Barbazza collide at Mergulho.
1992 - Clean start.
1991 - Pirro runs wide at the Senna S.
1990 - Patrese, Alesi and De Cesaris collide approaching the Senna S, Nannini loses his front wing.

The precedent for first-lap mayhem certainly exists!

#16 Dunder

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 20:17

Using google maps, pole is on the outside, which is the racing line, so pole is on the clean side I assume ?

http://maps.google.c...e....00284&z=19

As I said before with the rain today the track will be "green", presumably reducing the advantage of the "clean" side ?
So its the support races that will clean the track, anyone got a schedule for tomorrow ? BBC mentioned there aren't as many here as usual.


F3 and Porsche Cup races in the morning.


#17 korzeniow

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 20:18

You are right. The picture I posted is not correct. Poleman is to the right, 2nd to the left.


So, you should remove this picture now

#18 TigersWood

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 20:23

It would be very nice to see a triple crash between Webber, Vettel and Hamilton, and a peaceful race for Alonso. :lol:

N, seriously, everyone is gonna be very careful because nobody wants to get out of the race, It will be very interesting with the risks that people like Hamilton take.



#19 Crafty

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 20:23

First lap incidents at Interlagos:

<snip good info>
The precedent for first-lap mayhem certainly exists!

:eek: Never realised it was that bad.

good info though :up:


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#20 Crafty

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 20:24

F3 and Porsche Cup races in the morning.


Not much running then.

So we could presume that there is little advantage to the "clean" side for tomorrow ?


#21 DarthRonzo

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 20:36

Interlagos is really one of a kind. :up:

Since the grid is placed on a slope, up hill, the guys in the front have an extra advantage due to running a smoother ellevation and shorter piece of track until the Senna "S".

The guys in the midle of it have a stepper track start, with more risk of wheel spin.

Guys in the last lines lies in almost flat grid spots, making it easier to catch the mid grid guys before the Esses.

There is no other grid start like Interlagos. :clap:

PS.: They also run drag racing there, the only one in the world done in a hill.


#22 primer

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 20:48

Start is gonna be so amazing, let us hope they do not start behind SC for whatever reason.

#23 Crafty

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 20:50

PS.: They also run drag racing there, the only one in the world done in a hill.


I didnt know that, any links ?

There are some tracks elsewhere on unlevel ground, can't name them offhand though..

#24 Dunder

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 20:50

Not much running then.

So we could presume that there is little advantage to the "clean" side for tomorrow ?


Based on last year when quali was also wet, I would say that is fair.

Kimi got a great start from P5 but that was with KERS, P1 - P4 all appeared to get away equally well.

Edited by Dunder, 06 November 2010 - 20:58.


#25 alfa1

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 20:56

There are some tracks elsewhere on unlevel ground, can't name them offhand though..


One quick search later...




#26 Arska

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 21:03

With Alonso in 5th and behind his title rivals, it's going to be a start filled with tension and excitement. I like it. :up:

#27 Risil

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 21:04

Without doubt, this is going to be the most important clutch-disengagement in Red Bull Racing's history... :drunk:

Edited by Risil, 06 November 2010 - 21:05.


#28 korzeniow

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 21:07

Without doubt, this is going to be the most important clutch-disengagement in Red Bull Racing's history... :drunk:


what do you mean?

#29 Crafty

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 21:13

One quick search later...


Interesting, but not quite what I was thinking of.

I'll keep searching :)

#30 Nitropower

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 21:17

I gotta feeling, uuuuuuh... that tomorrow there won't be more than 1 change in the first 5 positions.

#31 TURU

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 21:19

I gotta feeling, uuuuuuh... that tomorrow there won't be more than 1 change in the first 5 positions.


There will be more than 5 changes in the first 5 positions. :wave:

#32 Stoobs

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 21:20

what do you mean?


If they bog-down at the start and get overtaken by enough cars, or have an incident at the corner they can lose the championship right there...

#33 Crafty

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 21:34

http://fia.com/EN-GB...document-29.pdf

Buemi escapes penalty.

Still waiting for the start grid document to appear though

#34 DarthRonzo

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 21:45

I didnt know that, any links ?

There are some tracks elsewhere on unlevel ground, can't name them offhand though..


http://www.youtube.c...r...rlagos&aq=o

http://www.autodynam...om.br/index.htm

http://www.rachaeminterlagos.com.br/


#35 race addicted

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 22:01

I just hope Hülkenberg can hold onto his lead for the entire first lap, 'cause if Vettel or Webber gets a "free" pass on him at the start, and the rest will have to sit behind the Williams for a while, the leader will just dissappear.

#36 F1EC

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 22:06

Reuters interview with Patrick Head:
http://uk.reuters.co...06?pageNumber=2

While Hulkenberg said he did not want to 'cause any trouble' for those battling for the championship, Head made clear the driver would not make life easy for anyone.

"He isn't going to move over and say 'Come on you guys, after you," he declared. "They're going to have to pass him on merit. I think both the Red Bulls and Alonso will be able to get by, but we'll see."


Wonder why he doesn't mention Hamilton? Seems a strange omission, particularly given his overtaking skills.


#37 korzeniow

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 22:09

Reuters interview with Patrick Head:
http://uk.reuters.co...06?pageNumber=2



Wonder why he doesn't mention Hamilton? Seems a strange omission, particularly given his overtaking skills.



Because Hamilton will takie himself out

#38 F1EC

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 22:10

Because Hamilton will takie himself out


Yeah, right :rolleyes:

Edited by F1EC, 06 November 2010 - 22:10.


#39 kandru

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 22:11

The person who can get around Hulkenberg quickest at the start will win the race. They say you cant win the race in the first corner, only lose it, but I disagree. :p

you can start winning it, but you cannot win it unless you cover the whole +300kms of the GP, while you can easily lose it ;)

Edited by kandru, 06 November 2010 - 22:14.


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#40 pRy

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 22:26

Expecting Webber to try pass Vettel on the inside into turn 4, but those passes never work out so he'll have to try again into turn 1 on lap 2.

#41 Juan Kerr

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 22:27

For those who think 'The Hulk' will bottle it are gonna have a big shock, you obviously didn't watch him in A1GP where as a rookie he got pole and just looked like an old master as he just drove away from the field. Relatively he would've felt just as out of place as he does in pole position in an F1 race. This lad has no confidence issue at all.

#42 race addicted

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 22:34

If everyone survives I think the best Hülkenberg can hope for realistically, is sixth, perhaps fifth.

#43 kandru

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 22:52

If everyone survives I think the best Hülkenberg can hope for realistically, is sixth, perhaps fifth.

he's got a real chance of podium if they play their strategy well

#44 search

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 23:02

For those who think 'The Hulk' will bottle it are gonna have a big shock, you obviously didn't watch him in A1GP where as a rookie he got pole and just looked like an old master as he just drove away from the field. Relatively he would've felt just as out of place as he does in pole position in an F1 race. This lad has no confidence issue at all.


I don't think it's that much about about Hülkenberg himself, Williams had really poor starts in the last couple of races, Barrichello for example lost places in every race since Hungary.

they have changed something at the gearbox to fix this issue, but i doubt that they are on top level already

#45 Nitropower

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 23:34

I just wish tomorrow we had this kind of race

Nurburgring 2007


#46 DILLIGAF

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 06:37

If everyone survives I think the best Hülkenberg can hope for realistically, is sixth, perhaps fifth.


I hope he hangs on for a podium. After his qualy effort he deserves it.

#47 Craven Morehead

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 06:53

I just wish tomorrow we had this kind of race

Nurburgring 2007


that was fun. :up:

#48 montoyasminion

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 07:36

This is great, the two worst starting cars of the year are the top 3 positions on the grid. Honestly I can see all 3 of them taking each other out within the first two corners. Webber did a pretty decent job of ruining Kimi's race last year, wouldn't be surprised to see a repeat of that either. I don't think that Hulk will bin it out of pressure or anything. At least I hope not. But I don't see him finishing higher than 4th.

#49 phil1993

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 07:46

Someone's probably going to be upside down at Turn 1...

Hopefully Hulkenberg can maintain the lead or else we're going to get a Red Bull domination. For the sake of a good battle for the lead you need Hamilton & Alonso to get past the Bulls. Now that would give us some entertainment...

Also depends on what kind of set-up the guys went for. If Hulkenberg went for a dry set-up in qualifying then it came good at the end and the others may have gone for an Inter set-up.

#50 e63

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 07:49

The Hulk will have a poor start off the line and he will desperately cut across his compatriot Vettel to defend.

Having gotten a nice tow, Webber will put his car on the outside of Turn 1 which will give him the inside for Turn 2 and henceforth the racing line, leaving the two Germans to squabble it out for 2nd position, with Hamilton and Alonso pecking at their heels.