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Brazil 2010 - Race Day


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#1 D.M.N.

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 10:12

Hello guys! :wave:

I'm not the only one here highly anticipating the first lap, am I? I hope Hulkenberg manages to keep the lead in the first lap, but admittedly I think that's unlikely, but who knows. As long as he gets a good start and holds it into turn 4, he should be fine for the first lap.

It'll be interesting if he does keep the lead for the 1st lap, because I think that makes the situation harder for any of the title contenders behind. Under the assumption that Vettel stays second, would they want to get past Hulkenberg as soon as possible, potentially risking Hulkenberg chopping across and/or sending Vettel off the track or hold station. For guys like Vettel, providing Hulkenberg isn't massively slow, hold station honestly maybe the best option, an attempted overtake could go wrong if Hulkenberg defends well. If Hulkenberg escapes Lap 1 in the lead, I do think the race will head into the unknown to a degree - and I for one hope Hulkenberg finishes lap 1 in the lead.

Of course I haven't at all noted in the above that Vettel might have Webber, Alonso and Hamilton right behind him. I hope Hulkenberg stays in there with them for the first stint, because I think the race has the potential to be a cracker. I don't see him winning it, but I do see him ruining one or two people's days. Grid is below:

2. Vettel................1. Hulkenberg
4. Hamilton.............3. Webber
6. Barrichello...........5. Alonso
8. Schumacher........7. Kubica
10. Petrov..............9. Massa
12. Kobayashi.........11. Button
14. Alguersuari........13. Rosberg
16. Liuzzi...............15. Heidfeld
18. Trulli................17. Glock
20. Buemi*.............19. Kovalainen
22. Klien................21. Di Grassi
24. Senna..............23. Sutil*

Edited by D.M.N., 07 November 2010 - 10:18.


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#2 DanardiF1

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 10:21

Hello guys! :wave:

I'm not the only one here highly anticipating the first lap, am I? I hope Hulkenberg manages to keep the lead in the first lap, but admittedly I think that's unlikely, but who knows. As long as he gets a good start and holds it into turn 4, he should be fine for the first lap.

It'll be interesting if he does keep the lead for the 1st lap, because I think that makes the situation harder for any of the title contenders behind. Under the assumption that Vettel stays second, would they want to get past Hulkenberg as soon as possible, potentially risking Hulkenberg chopping across and/or sending Vettel off the track or hold station. For guys like Vettel, providing Hulkenberg isn't massively slow, hold station honestly maybe the best option, an attempted overtake could go wrong if Hulkenberg defends well. If Hulkenberg escapes Lap 1 in the lead, I do think the race will head into the unknown to a degree - and I for one hope Hulkenberg finishes lap 1 in the lead.

Of course I haven't at all noted in the above that Vettel might have Webber, Alonso and Hamilton right behind him. I hope Hulkenberg stays in there with them for the first stint, because I think the race has the potential to be a cracker. I don't see him winning it, but I do see him ruining one or two people's days.


As long as the Hulk keeps his head and drives calmly, not over-defensive and sticks to his own pace (which isn't bad in that Williams, it's not like he's in a Lotus!) which will get a lot better around the first pit stop (Williams struggle when the fuel is full, but as it comes down they find a lot of pace quite quickly), he's still in with a shout of a podium... if this track didn't have such a great first corner for overtaking then I'd be more sure of him challenging for the win, but despite his gear ratios which apparently have gone for better traction over top speed, he'll be under pressure going into the first corner each time. He just needs to do his own thing and not worry that there are title challengers behind him.


#3 Gbain

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 10:26

... I hope Hulkenberg stays in there with them for the first stint, because I think the race has the potential to be a cracker. I don't see him winning it, but I do see him ruining one or two people's days.

And you think that's OK? Ruining someone's WDC chances just to have a glory lap in Q? I just hope all four of WDC candidates could get past the kid without any harm, he tends to do dangerous and not very fair moves on track.

#4 Fastcake

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 10:27

You're certainly not the only one waiting for the start! :D

Now if only I can find something to occupy the next few hours!

#5 D.M.N.

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 10:31

And you think that's OK? Ruining someone's WDC chances just to have a glory lap in Q? I just hope all four of WDC candidates could get past the kid without any harm, he tends to do dangerous and not very fair moves on track.

I meant ruining someone's day by trying to keep them behind, not by trying to take someone else out (which I hope doesn't happen!). I hope Hulkenberg puts up a fight when they attempt to pass and not give them the full width of the track.

Edited by D.M.N., 07 November 2010 - 10:32.


#6 Gemini

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 10:32

And you think that's OK? Ruining someone's WDC chances just to have a glory lap in Q?



What glory lap? :rolleyes:

What is your logic, as I don't get it


#7 nomeg1

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 10:33

Hello guys! :wave:

I'm not the only one here highly anticipating the first lap, am I? I hope Hulkenberg manages to keep the lead in the first lap, but admittedly I think that's unlikely, but who knows. As long as he gets a good start and holds it into turn 4, he should be fine for the first lap.

2. Vettel................1. Hulkenberg
4. Hamilton.............3. Webber
6. Barrichello...........5. Alonso

We all know that the Maccas are strong @ start don't we, and Webber poor ?
I would hate to see Lewis and Mark tangle, and as you say DMN, would rather prefer that Hulk keeps is n°1 spot the first lap, and then that the furious have a go at it in n°1 of the second lap i.e. Webber on Hamilton, and on lap 3 Vettel & the same Webber tangle, as I believe Vettel doesn't give a damn anymore, and is absolutely convinced that he still has a go @ the crown. But all are supposition from my part.
We'll have a nerve breaking first laps though, I am pretty sure,



#8 Gemini

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 10:33

Now if only I can find something to occupy the next few hours!

MotoGP in Valencia. 3 hours before F1 :-)


#9 DanardiF1

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 10:34

I meant ruining someone's day by trying to keep them behind, not by trying to take someone else out (which I hope doesn't happen!). I hope Hulkenberg puts up a fight when they attempt to pass and not give them the full width of the track.


Exactly... he needs to protect what he's earned. It would be frustrating for Red Bull if having Hulkenburg in front meant that a Hamilton or Alonso could mug them and all but secure the championship... and that's a fantastic prospect. As long as the Williams leads and holds it, it creates the chance for all the top 4 guys to remain very close to each other, and in control of their own destiny.

#10 Gilles12

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 10:39

Of the top teams only Massa and Alonso are slower in a straightline than Hulkenburg...

Hamiltn is a full 8kmh faster and Button is more than 10kph

http://www.formula1....speed_trap.html

Edited by Gilles12, 07 November 2010 - 11:04.


#11 tty

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 10:40

And you think that's OK? Ruining someone's WDC chances just to have a glory lap in Q? I just hope all four of WDC candidates could get past the kid without any harm, he tends to do dangerous and not very fair moves on track.

When did he imply that ruining someone's day would also entail a crash or any dangerous moves at all?

#12 Gbain

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 10:47

What glory lap? :rolleyes:

What is your logic, as I don't get it


Let's wait and see if it really was just a brilliant drive by Hulk. Race will quickly verify if 9 of the Q3 drivers really were inept to keep temperatures in theirs tires and only Hulk knew how to do it :well:

#13 DanardiF1

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 10:48

Of the top teams only Massa and Alonso are slower in a straightline than Hulkenburg...

Hamiltn is a full 8kmh faster and Button is more than 10mph

http://www.formula1....speed_trap.html


I still find it weird that Jenson has these rear-end issues (lack of grip, locking etc) but then prefers the lower-downforce setup... the car must have an overall better balance in that state, but then other issues creep in because of it... he might fare better just going for pure downforce and feeling his way in with that.

Good to see the Hulk won't be a sitting duck on the straights..

#14 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:00

And you think that's OK? Ruining someone's WDC chances just to have a glory lap in Q? I just hope all four of WDC candidates could get past the kid without any harm, he tends to do dangerous and not very fair moves on track.

What glory lap, it is not like he had less fuel than others :rolleyes:

Let's wait and see if it really was just a brilliant drive by Hulk. Race will quickly verify if 9 of the Q3 drivers really were inept to keep temperatures in theirs tires and only Hulk knew how to do it :well:


If others were not capable of doing something, then it is painfully obvious that it was hard to do that. Nico was able to do it, so all praise to him for doing something others were not capable of doing.


#15 DanardiF1

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:01

Let's wait and see if it really was just a brilliant drive by Hulk. Race will quickly verify if 9 of the Q3 drivers really were inept to keep temperatures in theirs tires and only Hulk knew how to do it :well:


I think he just made the perfect out-lap... and subsequently with each hot lap found more and more grip because the tyres were retaining that initial heat... some of the other Q3 guys were a bit cautious of their first forays on slicks and that could've been the end of their pole run right then.

The Williams seems very driveable in mixed conditions too, looks like they have some good engine maps for the Cosworth!

#16 nomeg1

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:03

Good to see the Hulk won't be a sitting duck on the straights..

And he and webber and Alonso on the clean side of the depart...

#17 Gemini

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:03

Let's wait and see if it really was just a brilliant drive by Hulk. Race will quickly verify if 9 of the Q3 drivers really were inept to keep temperatures in theirs tires and only Hulk knew how to do it :well:


Williams commented yesterday that Hulk's setup was not compromised to shine in qually. But I am not believing in everything teams are saying. As you said: let's wait and see.


#18 gaston_foix

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:09

Weather forecast?

#19 Gilles12

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:10

Weather forecast?

Sunny, dry, 24 degrees

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#20 Budvar

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:10

What glory lap, it is not like he had less fuel than others :rolleyes:



If others were not capable of doing something, then it is painfully obvious that it was hard to do that. Nico was able to do it, so all praise to him for doing something others were not capable of doing.


Call me a cynic if you like but the conditions yesterday were perfect for a team desperate for 2011 sponsors. A wet drying low grip track that would reward a high downforce wet set up even if that set up would be useless for the dry race ahead. I am sorry, I just do not buy this tyres up to temperature line. A classic sposor attractor tactic, just reminding everyone what a great team Williams once were and might just be again if they can find more sponsors!

#21 Smile17

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:14

Call me a cynic if you like but the conditions yesterday were perfect for a team desperate for 2011 sponsors. A wet drying low grip track that would reward a high downforce wet set up even if that set up would be useless for the dry race ahead. I am sorry, I just do not buy this tyres up to temperature line. A classic sposor attractor tactic, just reminding everyone what a great team Williams once were and might just be again if they can find more sponsors!


Couldn't agree more!

About the race: I hope Hulkenberg can stay infront of the RedBulls at the start, they can't run away with it. It will be interesting to see if all the 4 titlecontenders at the front will survive the first lap.

#22 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:15

Call me a cynic if you like but the conditions yesterday were perfect for a team desperate for 2011 sponsors. A wet drying low grip track that would reward a high downforce wet set up even if that set up would be useless for the dry race ahead. I am sorry, I just do not buy this tyres up to temperature line. A classic sposor attractor tactic, just reminding everyone what a great team Williams once were and might just be again if they can find more sponsors!

He was quite quick in speed trap, so your theory doesnt hold water.
Besides, he was 1,1 seconds faster than the next guy. That is down to more than setup these days.

#23 Zakiruz

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:18

And you think that's OK? Ruining someone's WDC chances just to have a glory lap in Q? I just hope all four of WDC candidates could get past the kid without any harm, he tends to do dangerous and not very fair moves on track.


It's called racing :lol: It's not like the four WDC candidates have been racing cleanly during the season.

#24 Muppetmad

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:21

Whilst Hulkenburg did extraordinarily well yesterday, I think that he is on a completely different strategy to everyone else. Case in point? Barrichello. He's in 6th - and he's no slouch. I think Williams put Barrichello on the conservative setup and Hulkenburg on the risky setup to try and guarantee at least one good result today - and depending on how the start goes today, I think we may see a Williams on the podium; although maybe not Hulkenburg.

An example of this strategy is 2008 Australian Grand Prix. Kubica fuelled it light and put it on the front row. BMW gave Heidfeld the heavier fuel option. The strategy didn't work out for Kubica (even before Nakajima's banzai take-out), but Heidfeld finished 2nd. BMW covered both bases and so practically guaranteed themselves at least one good result as long as both drivers just kept it on the right.

Edited by Muppetmad, 07 November 2010 - 11:23.


#25 LoudHoward

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:22

Theres no race fuel in qualifying anymore Muppet...

I could imagine the championship contenders were very careful on their initial laps with dries, hence the temp may have gone from their tyres, doesn't really explain the gap from Hulk back to the P6 down guys though!

If he gets a good start I don't see why Hulk can't hang on at the front until the stops, and even then, how many are going to get past him in a lap or two? We know he drives defensively and doesn't give a damn about championship positions from Monza, but on the flipside, there are no chicanes to shortcut here so...who knows?!

Edited by LoudHoward, 07 November 2010 - 11:23.


#26 Gemini

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:24

He was quite quick in speed trap, so your theory doesnt hold water.


Top speed in Q3 were around 10 kmh slower than in practice. So top speed in Q3 was not only function of downforce drag, but corner exit traction, where high level of downforce would help.

But race will answer that better. Can't wait!

#27 phil1993

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:25

I really don't know what went on yesterday, I still can't get my mind around it in terms of Hulkenberg being soo much faster than the front runners - in a car that is usually about 1s off the pace anyway. Hopefully the title carries on to Abu Dhabi.

#28 Muppetmad

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:25

Theres no race fuel in qualifying anymore Muppet...


I know, but it's just an example of where splitting your drivers between a risky and a conservative race strategy can pay off. In 2008 it was with fuel, in this particular instance I think it will be with setup. I don't see why Barrichello wouldn't have qualified higher otherwise.

#29 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:30

Top speed in Q3 were around 10 kmh slower than in practice. So top speed in Q3 was not only function of downforce drag, but corner exit traction, where high level of downforce would help.

But race will answer that better. Can't wait!

in comparison to others, it does not look like Nico has went for more downforce, right? If he had went for massive amounts of downforce, he wouldnt be that high on the speed trap list.
Practise results are irrelevant, it was dry and far more grippy back then.


#30 TURU

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:35

in comparison to others, it does not look like Nico has went for more downforce, right? If he had went for massive amounts of downforce, he wouldnt be that high on the speed trap list.
Practise results are irrelevant, it was dry and far more grippy back then.


You misunderstood him. His point was that because it was wet/drying-up track, better traction on the exit from the last corner would definetely help to achieve good top speed, even despite having more drag. Running massive amount of downforce would give him better traction. So Williams may say truth that Hulk has a dry setup, however it's a high downforce dry setup. In the dry it won't give him any more traction than the front runners have and he will end up being a sitting duck on the straights.

#31 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:40

You misunderstood him. His point was that because it was wet/drying-up track, better traction on the exit from the last corner would definetely help to achieve good top speed, even despite having more drag. Running massive amount of downforce would give him better traction. So Williams may say truth that Hulk has a dry setup, however it's a high downforce dry setup. In the dry it won't give him any more traction than the front runners have and he will end up being a sitting duck on the straights.

Well, I wont waste time debating this, but we will see in the race.

edit: Actually one point. Hulk almost matched his speed trap from FP1 and FP2, whereas the rest of the guys have lost a lot of top speed.

Edited by Cheap Wine Alesi, 07 November 2010 - 11:41.


#32 Nitropower

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:41

Question

Is it raining today, yes, no, how much?

Autosport index shows rain now. Very important information.

#33 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:41

Question

Is it raining today, yes, no, how much?

Autosport index shows rain now. Very important information.

Last I heard it was dry?

#34 Kerch

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:43

If Hulkenberg does keep at least 1 of the Red Bulls behind him, that will give Hamilton a huge opportunity to overtake.

Edited by Kerch, 07 November 2010 - 11:44.


#35 korzeniow

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:44

@Mike Gascoyne Morning from the interlagos paddock. Clear blue skies predicted all day

10 minutes ago via Twitter

Edited by korzeniow, 07 November 2010 - 11:44.


#36 Nitropower

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:44

Yes

Absolutely dry.

Shiny day in Sao Paulo, just saw it in a couple of live webcams.

#37 DanardiF1

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:54

I really don't know what went on yesterday, I still can't get my mind around it in terms of Hulkenberg being soo much faster than the front runners - in a car that is usually about 1s off the pace anyway. Hopefully the title carries on to Abu Dhabi.


Looks like with a combination of good setup, and some fantastic driving, in that session Nico was 2 seconds quicker than anyone else!! Pretty good eh? :p

#38 nawz

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:56

I still find it weird that Jenson has these rear-end issues (lack of grip, locking etc) but then prefers the lower-downforce setup... the car must have an overall better balance in that state, but then other issues creep in because of it... he might fare better just going for pure downforce and feeling his way in with that.

Good to see the Hulk won't be a sitting duck on the straights..


Should change as conditions on track are more favourable?

#39 fisssssi

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 12:01

All I hope from race day is that the championship stays alive for Abu Dhabi. It would be such an anti-climax to an incredible season if Alonso wraps it up here and now.

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#40 DanardiF1

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 12:05

Should change as conditions on track are more favourable?


Could do, he seemed to be doing better on Friday, but even then was only around 4-7th, so similar to Hamilton but just off him. Jenson's usually better off in the race anyway, so hopefully we'll see some 2009 repeat antics from him...

#41 ManiaMuse

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 12:12

I think Barrichello has a very good chance of being in the mix after the first lap. It only takes a bad start or incident at the first corner and he could potentially get up to 3rd/4th by the end of the first lap.

Webber has a habit of going backwards at the start.

Alonso is probably going to be ultra cautious to avoid getting taken out on the first lap.

Hamilton is going to be extremely aggressive - he needs the win really.

And then Hulkenberg, who probably won't have the race pace to match the Red Bulls/Maccas/Ferraris, could prove an obstacle for the title contenders if he manages to stay in front of some of them for the first few laps. If one of the title contenders gets in front of Hulkenberg then the others certainly aren't going to want to see him drive off into the distance so they will be keen to get in front of Hulkenberg as well. But Hulkenberg is not going to let anyone past easily, P1 and P6 on the grid is too good an opportunity for Williams to get a good result, so it might force the title runners to decide how much risk they are willing to take getting past him.

Kubica was a bit disappointing yesterday as he looked pretty good in those conditions but he usually has good race pace.

Schuey did pretty well yesterday, likes the track so could be a good opportunity to beat Rosberg for the 3rd race in a row (as long as Merc don't screw him over on strategy).

Kobayashi is well placed for a charge as well. Button's headache could grow even larger if he finds his 2009 nemesis in front of him again.

Edited by ManiaMuse, 07 November 2010 - 12:13.


#42 Gemini

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 12:27

Schuey did pretty well yesterday, likes the track so could be a good opportunity to beat Rosberg for the 3rd race in a row (as long as Merc don't screw him over on strategy).


All he needs is Rosberg's wheel coming off, or some driver coasting backwards across Rosberg's race line. Then yes... he will 'beat' him 3rd race in row ;-)

#43 DanardiF1

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 12:39

I think Barrichello has a very good chance of being in the mix after the first lap. It only takes a bad start or incident at the first corner and he could potentially get up to 3rd/4th by the end of the first lap.

Webber has a habit of going backwards at the start.

Alonso is probably going to be ultra cautious to avoid getting taken out on the first lap.

Hamilton is going to be extremely aggressive - he needs the win really.

And then Hulkenberg, who probably won't have the race pace to match the Red Bulls/Maccas/Ferraris, could prove an obstacle for the title contenders if he manages to stay in front of some of them for the first few laps. If one of the title contenders gets in front of Hulkenberg then the others certainly aren't going to want to see him drive off into the distance so they will be keen to get in front of Hulkenberg as well. But Hulkenberg is not going to let anyone past easily, P1 and P6 on the grid is too good an opportunity for Williams to get a good result, so it might force the title runners to decide how much risk they are willing to take getting past him.

Kubica was a bit disappointing yesterday as he looked pretty good in those conditions but he usually has good race pace.

Schuey did pretty well yesterday, likes the track so could be a good opportunity to beat Rosberg for the 3rd race in a row (as long as Merc don't screw him over on strategy).

Kobayashi is well placed for a charge as well. Button's headache could grow even larger if he finds his 2009 nemesis in front of him again.


I fancied Schumi for a front-row, but as it dried out he lost his mixed-weather advantage by waiting in the pits... I think he could done a Hulkenburg in getting his tyres warmer when the track was a bit wetter than at the end.

#44 ManiaMuse

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 12:41

All he needs is Rosberg's wheel coming off, or some driver coasting backwards across Rosberg's race line. Then yes... he will 'beat' him 3rd race in row ;-)

Ah, but you see, Schuey forced the team to give him the number 3 car because he was anticipating the wheel falling off the number 4 car at Suzuka.

And in Korea he deliberately qualified behind Rosberg because he knew that 'some driver' wouldn't be able to handle the wet conditions and would crash and roll back across the racing line.

:p

Edited by ManiaMuse, 07 November 2010 - 12:41.


#45 Kelateboy

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 12:43

I will catch the first few rounds and see whether I could stay awake until the end. I don't recall the race starting this late before, but it could just be me getting older....

#46 Dunder

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 12:43

Looking forward to a great race.

It is a fascinating grid and with so much pressure for those in P2-P5 I am sure we will see fireworks.

Looking for Button to start on the harder tyre and get involved after the leaders' pitstops and for Hamilton to take an aggressive approach, there is nothing to lose at this stage.

#47 DanardiF1

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 12:45

Ah, but you see, Schuey forced the team to give him the number 3 car because he was anticipating the wheel falling off the number 4 car at Suzuka.

And in Korea he deliberately qualified behind Rosberg because he knew that 'some driver' wouldn't be able to handle the wet conditions and would crash and roll back across the racing line.

:p


But he didn't anticipate his own wheel problem in Malaysia did he? :)

#48 boldhakka

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 12:49

But he didn't anticipate his own wheel problem in Malaysia did he? :)


He got better. Back then he was still rusty from the 3-year break. :lol:

#49 WhiteBlue

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 12:49

Here are the latest odds for winning the race:

Posted Image

Vettel looks in great shape to take it.

#50 ManiaMuse

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 12:57

Here are the latest odds for winning the race:

Posted Image

Vettel looks in great shape to take it.

Winter? I thought it was nearly summer in the southern hemisphere now...