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will 2010 be the first final decided by a team order in the last race?


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Poll: will 2010 be the first final decided by a team order in the last race? (31 member(s) have cast votes)

will 2010 be the first final decided by a team order in the last race? (webber a fake-champion)

  1. yes (7 votes [22.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.58%

  2. no (24 votes [77.42%])

    Percentage of vote: 77.42%

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#1 sunnyAK

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 02:28

will 2010 be the first final decided by a team order in the last race?

(i know this statement "will 2010 be the first final decided by a team order in the last race?" sounds redundantly, but a final could also be decided by team order in an earlier race, this is why i am saying "final" and "last race")


it is very likely that if vettel again is faster than webber like in almost all races in the last month, that red-bull will tell vettel to slow down to make webber the world-champion istead of alonso.

it is very likely that you will not see this picture in the end if vettel is leading.

Posted Image

if vettel won the last race, for alonso a 4th place is still would be enough to get the title! so i am quite sure they will make webber champion by using team order. in this case webber is one of the weakest champions of all times :!:

i will mention some facts which in my opinion show that he absolutely doesn´t deserve the title! vettel was three times leading the whole race and then was out due to technical problems. this alone would mean a big, big gap between webber and vettel. webber would not even be close to him. also the victory webber had because of the penalty vettel got after leaving a too big gap to the pace car, was more a gift for webber than a deserved victory. webber even after having all this luck, maybe needs a team order to get the title .webber isn´t a true & deserved champion. if alonso wins the titel with a bigger lead than 7 points, alonso deserves the title, otherwise vettel deserves it, but webber deserves it in no way!

two things i don´t like about webber. let´s compare him to senna and mansell and you will see the difference. senna had no problem to say that he doesn´t like prost, but he would have never wanted prost to gift him the title by letting him pass (teamorder) and even saying in interviews the team needs a teamorder. with mansell it is the same. he never had a problem to be honest and say he cannot stand piquet, but he would have never wanted piquet to gift him the title by letting him pass (teamorder).
webber has no problem to say that he doesn´t like vettel and to slander him, but he wants gifts from vettel. he wants vettel to slow down for him and in the same interview he even mentions that he is not sure that he would do the same for vettel.


regards
sunnyAK

Edited by sunnyAK, 09 November 2010 - 02:31.


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#2 Dunder

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 03:10

Will there be 10 more threads that ask the same question but with slightly different wording based on the OP's personal prejudice?

YES 99 votes 99.0%
NO 1 vote 1.0%



Seriously, how many threads are needed?

#3 sunnyAK

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 03:16

Will there be 10 more threads that ask the same question but with slightly different wording based on the OP's personal prejudice?

YES 99 votes 99.0%
NO 1 vote 1.0%



Seriously, how many threads are needed?



i posted this thread already yesterday, but there was link included as a reference to another board (my board). this isn´t allowed, so the thread was deleted. i said sorry to the admin who told me about the reason, it was deleted and i was allowed to post my thread again.  ;)

#4 sunnyAK

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 03:16

ROFLMAO - whaqt's obvious is you don't know much about the politics of F1.... you probably weren't even born to watch Senna and Mansell........ cause your post shows you certainly didn't. Do a little resaearch on some of Senna's teammates....


ok, i see you changed your post and added to your claim that i don´t know anything about formula one politics, that i should do some research on senna´s teammates. i really don´t think senna feared any teammate! the same goes for mansell "the lion". if webber was half the racer they are, he would not even think about team orders, but just get into his car and win the races.;)


for someone who uses an expression "I"m probably way older" tells me they aren't.......

again, you only mention 1 of Senna's teammates - wonder why......

I think whoever finishes on top deserves the title...


this post shows me that you obviously are not watching formula one for a long time. where did i mention one of senna´s teammates? i mentioned prost vs mansell vs piquet in 1986 and there keke rosberg was prost´s teammate and not senna! senna had a lotus-renault. lol and you think i have no clue about that time, very funny.

p.s. i don´t agree that whoever finishes on top deserves it, as it doesn´t only count that you won the title, but how you won the title.


#5 Raelene

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 03:32

ok, i see you changed your post and added to your claim that i don´t know anything about formula one politics, that i should do some research on senna´s teammates. i really don´t think senna feared any teammate! the same goes for mansell "the lion". if webber was half the racer they are, he would not even think about team orders, but just get into his car and win the races.;)




this post shows me that you obviously are not watching formula one for a long time. where did i mention one of senna´s teammates? i mentioned prost vs mansell vs piquet in 1986 and there keke rosberg was prost´s teammate and not senna! senna had a lotus-renault. lol and you think i have no clue about that time, very funny.

p.s. i don´t agree that whoever finishes on top deserves it, as it doesn´t only count that you won the title, but how you won the title.



who moved this here??? It is already being discussed in another thread. If I wanted to discuss it here I would. Poor form

Edited by Raelene, 09 November 2010 - 03:44.


#6 DILLIGAF

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 04:09

Not another poll ffs!!

NO.

#7 JosTheBoss

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 04:13

Get off your high horse sunnyAK, sosidge needs it back. :rolleyes:

Here's a better Poll: how many Vettel fans will start a loaded topic mouthing off at Webber before the final race?

#8 unoc

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 04:32

OMG ROFL>>> :LOL


OF COURSE LOLZA COSSSS WEBBBBBER SUXXXS LOL HE CANNNNT DO SHH*T ON HIS OWN COS HE SUX!!!!!

VETTELS RELIABILITY CVOST HIS 153 POINTS THIS YEAR.. HE SHOULD HAVE 1 EVERY RACE. REEED BULL IS TOTALLY FAVOURITE OF WEBBER WHY ELSE WOULD HIZ CAR NEVER LIKE BRAKE LOLZ!!! SILLY PEOPLE WHO THINK OTHERWIZE... LOL WISE LIKE THEY AIN'T!


P.S. IF U DONZ AGREEEZZZ THEN U = FAILZ

LOL ROFLLL



/sarcasm...



Every championship has been somewhat decided by either team orders or teams giving preferential treatment to one driver over the other. Hamilton always had pref over kovi, massa gave way to kimi, alonso was top dog in treatment and orders at renault, schumacher was top dog and had everything at ferrari. hakkinen was supported and given way to by coulthard. etc.. the list just keeps on going.


p.s. How many more threads do we need to ask if this championship is going to be tainted because it will be decided the same way as almost every other championship!


3 biggest facts around here that aren't facts
a) The Red Bull is mightier than Chuck Norris and any reliability is bad luck, stratergy doesn't count for anything and it should have one every race. It's quali pace proves this.
b) Team orders were only invented this year to help webber
c) Vettel is God but with bad luck

#9 DILLIGAF

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 04:48

i will mention some facts which in my opinion show that he absolutely doesn´t deserve the title! vettel was three times leading the whole race and then was out due to technical problems. this alone would mean a big, big gap between webber and vettel. webber would not even be close to him. also the victory webber had because of the penalty vettel got after leaving a too big gap to the pace car, was more a gift for webber than a deserved victory. webber even after having all this luck, maybe needs a team order to get the title .webber isn´t a true & deserved champion. if alonso wins the titel with a bigger lead than 7 points, alonso deserves the title, otherwise vettel deserves it, but webber deserves it in no way!two things i don´t like about webber. let´s compare him to senna and mansell and you will see the difference. senna had no problem to say that he doesn´t like prost, but he would have never wanted prost to gift him the title by letting him pass (teamorder) and even saying in interviews the team needs a teamorder. with mansell it is the same. he never had a problem to be honest and say he cannot stand piquet, but he would have never wanted piquet to gift him the title by letting him pass (teamorder).
webber has no problem to say that he doesn´t like vettel and to slander him, but he wants gifts from vettel. he wants vettel to slow down for him and in the same interview he even mentions that he is not sure that he would do the same for vettel.


Just on the highlighted parts & why they are biased imo.

Vettel has had reliability problems for sure & more than Webber. But you don't mention Webber's reliability problems. E.g Gearbox & grid penalty, chassis problems at Singapore & Suzuka, overheating engine in Brazil to name a few. It could also be argued that Seb is harder on the car whilst Webber has driven a bit more conservatively. And Vettel, like Webber has made too many mistakes.

Webber deserves it in no way? So his 4 victories & 10 podiums mean nothing to you? And if not for the incident in Turkey it would be 5 wins. Webber set a number of fastest laps after the accident, showing that his pace was not an issue there as Marko would have liked us to believe.

Webber has slandered Vettel? When & where did he do that? Source?

You say your opinion is based on facts? Yes you have listed some but conveniently left some facts out.

As for the comparisons to Senna & Mansell (Mr Whinge himself) there are no words necessary.




#10 unoc

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 04:53

Does it not suprise you that in teh two years we have seen Webber and Vettel at RBR.

Vettel has finished both seasons running out of engines and with reliability taking point away from hm
while
Webber hasn't being bone dry in terms of engines and has had less reliability problems (though he has had quite a few... just they took away from FP time, or stopped him from fighting for the lead in brazil, or stopped ihm overtaking despite easily catching up in germany)

Over half a season it's called bad luck. Over a whole season there are theories. Over two years in a row of Webber doing much better in reliability and engine stakes than Vettel it might be something down to driving style?

#11 Meanbeakin

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 08:11

will 2010 be the first final decided by a team order in the last race?


Nope, Ferrari swapped Massa and Raikkonen in the pits in Brazil 2007. If team orders weren't in place then Massa would have won.

Edited by Meanbeakin, 09 November 2010 - 08:11.


#12 topical

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 08:19

It's already been done by Ferrari in 2007, swapping Massa and Raikkonen. FFS, can some people not think back a few years before opening another stupid thread repeating what's already being discussed elsewhere...?

#13 DILLIGAF

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 10:01

It's already been done by Ferrari in 2007, swapping Massa and Raikkonen. FFS, can some people not think back a few years before opening another stupid thread repeating what's already being discussed elsewhere...?


+1


#14 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 10:19

Why do we have fifty threads on the same subject?

#15 DILLIGAF

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 10:21

Why do we have fifty threads on the same subject?


Exactly. It's insane.

#16 engel

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 10:22

Why do we have fifty threads on the same subject?


Cause everybody thinks they just had an amazing original thought and they need the attention of a brand new thread to celebrate it.

#17 Hun200kmh

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 10:27

People really should know a litle more about what FORMULA 1 is.

I'll quote Sir Stirling Moss

But of course I never won the title; I finished second four times, lost by a couple of points one year and by one the next, all for different reasons. The closest I came was in 1958 when I entered the final grand prix in Morocco needing to win, secure the fastest lap and have Mike Hawthorn finish lower than second.

I went there knowing exactly what I needed to do and crossed the line with the win and the fastest lap, with Mike back in third. Of course Mike's Ferrari team-mate Phil Hill did the correct thing and let Mike through to take second, allowing him to win the title by a single point. Incidentally, there was never any ill feeling about that from either side, which should also be the case if Alonso wins the title for Ferrari this year.



http://en.espnf1.com...tory/32863.html




EDIT - It's quite curious that exactly the same could happen this weekend. Mark in a solid first place, Massa 2nd (improbable, I know, but ...) and Alonso 3rd. If Massa does a "Phil Hill" I bet all the guys that THINK they know F1 will go berserk

Edited by Hun200kmh, 09 November 2010 - 10:32.


#18 DILLIGAF

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 10:36

People really should know a litle more about what FORMULA 1 is.

I'll quote Sir Stirling Moss

But of course I never won the title; I finished second four times, lost by a couple of points one year and by one the next, all for different reasons. The closest I came was in 1958 when I entered the final grand prix in Morocco needing to win, secure the fastest lap and have Mike Hawthorn finish lower than second.

I went there knowing exactly what I needed to do and crossed the line with the win and the fastest lap, with Mike back in third. Of course Mike's Ferrari team-mate Phil Hill did the correct thing and let Mike through to take second, allowing him to win the title by a single point. Incidentally, there was never any ill feeling about that from either side, which should also be the case if Alonso wins the title for Ferrari this year.



http://en.espnf1.com...tory/32863.html


EDIT - It's quite curious that exactly the same could happen this weekend. Mark in a solid first place, Massa 2nd (improbable, I know, but ...) and Alonso 3rd. If Massa does a "Phil Hill" I bet all the guys that THINK they know F1 will go berserk



Great post. :up:

Edited by DILLIGAF, 09 November 2010 - 10:37.


#19 Massa_f1

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 10:50

Yes it will but it wont Be Red Bull by the looks of things. I think If Red Bull keep to the rules like they stupidly or honorably say they will do then its Alonso's title unless he DNF's due to a team order in Germany.

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#20 BlackCat

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 12:48

yes, 1958 was the first case.
checking the history:
1950: Farina won ITA GP without help from Fagioli
1951: Fangio, loud and clear
1952, 1953: Ascari, loud and clear
1954, 1955, 1957: Fangio had it won long before season's end
1956: Fangio took over Collins' car but did not need those 3 points to win the champinship


#21 sunnyAK

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 04:21

if we wants to be the champion he should at least finish the race in front of vettel, without vettel losing a wheel nut, having a failure of a spark plug or an engine failure. if he cannot do this without vettel having problems or needing team order, he doesn´t deserve the title.

i still remember what a drama webber made because of this wing, although he said before he doesn´t like the new wing and he had a new floor, which vettel did not have. he fooled half the world with his second-rate theatre about having lesss good material. what a crap! only idiot*s believe such stuff. he had a great car and was complaining. imagine if he had had a lose wheel nut, an engine failure and a failure of a spark plug, i bet all his fanboys and also webber himself would have come up with conspiracy theories.

#22 Mary Popsins

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 04:29

If I could give zero star to a topic like that I would. This will be my only comment, apart from the fact that people who ignore History should not start polls about it, and especially when they include douche-like brackets.

Edited by Mary Popsins, 10 November 2010 - 04:30.


#23 sunnyAK

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 03:57

after i criticized webber last week and said that he lost some respect with some things he did, i have to say something positive about him today.
he is honest in his answers and doesn´t come up with excuses. after he was today asked what the problem was that vettel is on pole position and he only is on position 5 he answered, something like "well it is obviously not the car but the driver". not many drivers would have answered something like that.
he did not say something about bad tyres or anything like that, he just said that he did not have enough speed today and was not able to go vettel´s pace, as well the pace of some others.

respect from me. :up: