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Renault/Lotus deal to unlock Kubica contract - Hello Ferrari?


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#1 CaptainJackSparrow

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 10:38

That's timely:

http://www.motorspor...p...93859&FS=F1

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#2 thuGG

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 10:39

Yet another Kubica to Ferrari rumour, I'll believe it when I see it ;)

#3 fed up

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 10:40

Hello Mclaren :wave:

#4 arknor

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 10:51


would love to see him at mclaren so we can see him for the average driver he is flattered by a faster than people relaise renault

#5 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 10:52

Would Kubica want to drive for Ferrari? Sure, they're Ferrari, but if Kubica was expected to fill a certain role within the team, would we want to commit to that role? Ferrari have a tendency to back one of their drivers for the championship sooner than any other team will, which is most likely why they issued team orders in Germany. If we get that situation arising again, would Kubica like it? Would he even listen?

And while the rumour mill might link Kubica to Ferrari, would Ferrari necessairly want to replace Massa? Because if Webber decides he wants out and Kubica comes on the market, Ferrari will find themselves in a bidding war with Red Bull. If they cut Massa loose, but lose a bidding war to Red Bull for Kubica while Webber retires, what will they do then? It's not like they'll sign Webber; Webber is unhappy with the way Red Bull do things, but he won't be any better off at Ferrari.

#6 CaptainJackSparrow

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 10:53

would love to see him at mclaren so we can see him for the average driver he is flattered by a faster than people relaise renault


Bring it, let's find how who is right:)

#7 engel

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 11:02

Personally I doubt Ferrari would ever hire somebody to outright rattle Alonso, that's just not their management style. McLaren firing Button is an equal pipedream. Kubica's best hope IMO is next year (2012) IF a redbull slot opens up or if Schumacher packs it in in 11 or 12 and Merc slot opens up. Failing that, Renault is the best he can get.

#8 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 11:04

"Free to choose another team". Well Robert, if you'd like to drive a Virgin I say go for it.

#9 iotar

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 11:14

Personally I doubt Ferrari would ever hire somebody to outright rattle Alonso, that's just not their management style. McLaren firing Button is an equal pipedream. Kubica's best hope IMO is next year (2012) IF a redbull slot opens up or if Schumacher packs it in in 11 or 12 and Merc slot opens up. Failing that, Renault is the best he can get.


Agreed, apart from Red Bull bit. The chances of them putting someone to threaten Vettel are IMO even smaller than in case of Ferrari or McLaren.
Only realistic option is Ferrari but in 2012 not in 2011.

#10 korzeniow

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 11:33

Would Kubica want to drive for Ferrari? Sure, they're Ferrari, but if Kubica was expected to fill a certain role within the team, would we want to commit to that role? Ferrari have a tendency to back one of their drivers for the championship sooner than any other team will, which is most likely why they issued team orders in Germany. If we get that situation arising again, would Kubica like it? Would he even listen?

First Renault should commit to its assurances about its competitiveness.

In 2008 it was McLaren who first backed up one driver. And in 2008 Kimi helped Felipe just in penultimate race of the season, clearly it's not the soonest. But that's not the point. Point is teams are backing their best drivers. Alonso and Massa both had the same treatment in the first half of the season.

And while the rumour mill might link Kubica to Ferrari, would Ferrari necessairly want to replace Massa? Because if Webber decides he wants out and Kubica comes on the market, Ferrari will find themselves in a bidding war with Red Bull. If they cut Massa loose, but lose a bidding war to Red Bull for Kubica while Webber retires, what will they do then? It's not like they'll sign Webber; Webber is unhappy with the way Red Bull do things, but he won't be any better off at Ferrari.


Kubica won't go to Red Bull, there are too many drivers in F1 from Red Bull programe alreaday.

#11 Gareth

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 11:38

"Free to choose another team". Well Robert, if you'd like to drive a Virgin I say go for it.

Yup - he found himself "free to choose another team" at a similar stage last season with the previous buy-out.

Given these changes of control will almost only ever happen in the off season when all the decent seats are already tied up, I suspect Kubica's management are learning the lesson that a termination for change of control clause in a driver contract is pretty valueless.

#12 W154

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 11:58

First Renault should commit to its assurances about its competitiveness.

In 2008 it was McLaren who first backed up one driver. And in 2008 Kimi helped Felipe just in penultimate race of the season, clearly it's not the soonest. But that's not the point. Point is teams are backing their best drivers. Alonso and Massa both had the same treatment in the first half of the season.



Kubica won't go to Red Bull, there are too many drivers in F1 from Red Bull programe alreaday.

Ahh , but come 5pm Sunday ,Abu Dhabi time, there will be a vacant seat at RBR.

#13 CaptainJackSparrow

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 12:03

Yup - he found himself "free to choose another team" at a similar stage last season with the previous buy-out.

Given these changes of control will almost only ever happen in the off season when all the decent seats are already tied up, I suspect Kubica's management are learning the lesson that a termination for change of control clause in a driver contract is pretty valueless.


Well you know, I wouldn't put it past Ferrari to give Massa the flick, (IMO he's not the driver he used to be), and after Abu Dhabi who knows how Webbo will be feeling at Red Bull (let's theorise him and Vettle come together or something) so you know, termination for change of control is a nice card to hold as a wildcard but certainly, true, most of the trade activity occurs during the year.


#14 Gareth

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 12:04

True Cap'n, having the option is better than not. And who knows what may shake out from it. Still, my money would remain on Kubica driving for Renault (or whatever the team is called by then) next season.

#15 Clatter

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 12:05

Ahh , but come 5pm Sunday ,Abu Dhabi time, there will be a vacant seat at RBR.


Why? Both drivers are contracted for next year and there is no reason to expect either of them to walk away.

#16 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 12:12

Kubica won't go to Red Bull, there are too many drivers in F1 from Red Bull programe alreaday.

Except that Red Bull will need a top-flight driver if they want to compete for the WCC on a regular basis. There aren't really any Young Driver Program drivers who could rise to the occasion. Any that make it into Formula 1 will be with Toro Rosso, but neither Buemi nor Alguersuari would be a good replacement for Webber. Red Bull will need someone who is rated on the grid, and with Renault increasing their involvement with Red Bull (plus a potential arrangement with Group Lotus), they seem to be setting Red Bull up as their primary team.

#17 One

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 12:19

Red Bull has one at least already so there will be no need. the guy Mr. ben is placed in such obvious favor so it will make Kubica a bad deal to go to Red Bull. red Bull will reduce Kubica's excellent race paces and skills so that their protege Vettel looks alike some one else.

Kubica to Ferrari? humm... sounds like an exciting plan. sadly I do think that this will not happen today or next year.

The best will be that Kubica to move to Mercedes replacing Michael Schumacher. The man is to old.

#18 tohru222

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 13:23

Red Bull should fire Vettel and Webber as they both did a bad job in a fantastic car. They should hire Kubica and Buemi as a second driver.

#19 alecc

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 13:58

Red Bull should fire Vettel and Webber as they both did a bad job in a fantastic car. They should hire Kubica and Buemi as a second driver.



Red Bull firing Vettel, ehm... yeah, sure :lol:

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#20 Carlo's

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 14:03

Red Bull should fire Vettel...


It's Team Vettel, he won't leave RBR unless RBR make crap, which is hardly possible.

Edited by Buttoneer, 09 November 2010 - 15:04.
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#21 Sausage

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 14:07

I'm pretty sure Kubica will one day be a Ferrari driver, just not sure if it's gonna be in 2011 already. Alonso and him would be a good team though for winning the constructors title for example. They are on friendly terms too so maybe Fred won't mind as much if he's beaten.

Massa is not looking good however you slice it. They gave him a chance this year, but it didn't go so well putting it mildy.

#22 F.M.

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 14:47

I am 100% sure we won't see Kubica in a Ferrari next year.

#23 F.M.

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 14:49

Ferrari will need a lot of driver changes in the coming years:

- Kubica
- Hamilton
- Vettel
- Hulkenberg
- Bianchi

#24 smitten

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 14:50

Why? Both drivers are contracted for next year and there is no reason to expect either of them to walk away.


There have been a lot of reported paddock rumours that Webber will quit, especially if he wins the WDC. There have been a few slightly less than wholehearted denials from the team which have fuelled the rumours. It would be sad if that happened and the reigning WDC did not defend (first time since Mansell?).


#25 senna da silva

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 14:55

would love to see him at mclaren so we can see him for the average driver he is flattered by a faster than people relaise renault


:up:

#26 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 14:56

The best will be that Kubica to move to Mercedes replacing Michael Schumacher. The man is to old.

sure he is :)
mercedes are just stupid


#27 ManiaMuse

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 14:59

Alonso and Kubica are pretty good friends aren't they? Would he be the one competitive driver that Alonso would allow as his teammate and not as a number 2?

Kubica has the Italian credentials, pretty much was brought up and learnt to race there. And he speaks Italian I think?

I think it's pretty inevitable that Kubica will end up at Ferrari one day, and probably alongside Alonso. However I think next year is too soon, he does seem to have fitted in very well at Renault and they seem to love him.

Likely I think Kubica will stay at Renault or whatever they are called for 2011. But it will be a make or break season, if they do not provide him with a competitive car then he will be off to Ferrari for 2012.

#28 alecc

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 15:04

Alonso and Kubica are pretty good friends aren't they? Would he be the one competitive driver that Alonso would allow as his teammate and not as a number 2?

Kubica has the Italian credentials, pretty much was brought up and learnt to race there. And he speaks Italian I think?

I think it's pretty inevitable that Kubica will end up at Ferrari one day, and probably alongside Alonso. However I think next year is too soon, he does seem to have fitted in very well at Renault and they seem to love him.

Likely I think Kubica will stay at Renault or whatever they are called for 2011. But it will be a make or break season, if they do not provide him with a competitive car then he will be off to Ferrari for 2012.


Pretty my thoughts too, and yes he speaks Italian pretty well

#29 Clatter

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 15:06

There have been a lot of reported paddock rumours that Webber will quit, especially if he wins the WDC. There have been a few slightly less than wholehearted denials from the team which have fuelled the rumours. It would be sad if that happened and the reigning WDC did not defend (first time since Mansell?).


When have the team been asked to deny this "rumour"? And can you point to any articles regarding this rumour? He did say before the new contract was signed that he would be OK to quit as WDC (or words to that effect), but I've seen no evidence that he has any intention of walking out on his contract.

#30 smitten

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 15:28

When have the team been asked to deny this "rumour"? And can you point to any articles regarding this rumour? He did say before the new contract was signed that he would be OK to quit as WDC (or words to that effect), but I've seen no evidence that he has any intention of walking out on his contract.


http://news.bbc.co.u...one/9163197.stm

I'm not saying I necessarily believe it, but you asked why a previous posted said a seat would be free at RBR come next week.


#31 William Hunt

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 15:32

There have been a few slightly less than wholehearted denials from the team which have fuelled the rumours.


What else can they do if it's not true than to deny it?
I've always found it remarkable that whenever a driver or team is denying a rumour in the press that the fans react 'they are denying it so it must be true' :confused:

#32 smitten

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 15:36

What else can they do if it's not true than to deny it?
I've always found it remarkable that whenever a driver or team is denying a rumour in the press that the fans react 'they are denying it so it must be true' :confused:


You're absolutely correct, and it is in the press' interest to spin it as something more than it is. The problem, I think, comes from the lack of a definite.

"There's a good chance I'll stick around to have another crack at it." which Webber said is not quite the same thing as "Yes" but I do understand that the press also don't like one word answers.


#33 noikeee

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 15:48

"There's a good chance I'll stick around to have another crack at it." which Webber said is not quite the same thing as "Yes" but I do understand that the press also don't like one word answers.


Exactly. It's a very oddly phrased sentence for a guy who has a contract for next year.

#34 szym3k

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 16:18

Everyone is saying Kubica does not fit Red Bull's marketing scheme...

Young, fast, outspoken, and into Rallying. He also doesn't need to be mollycoddled. What's not to like?


#35 alecc

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 16:22

Everyone is saying Kubica does not fit Red Bull's marketing scheme...

Young, fast, outspoken, and into Rallying. He also doesn't need to be mollycoddled. What's not to like?


He is better than Vettel :p

#36 Alburaq

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 16:28

That's timely:

http://www.motorspor...p...93859&FS=F1


Those stupid rumors never end :|


#37 Alburaq

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 16:31

The best for Kubica is to say with Renault because they are the ones who will offer him a championship winning car in 2012. :cool:

Edited by Alburaq, 09 November 2010 - 16:32.


#38 sosidge

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 16:38

Kubica to Ferrari doesn't seem so far fetched to me...

Renault are in a slightly precarious position in terms of finance and future direction. I'm sure Kubica would take the opportunity to leave.

Ferrari may well be looking for a new second driver. Massa is still underperforming, although he seems to have got that chip off his shoulder about trying to stay ahead of Fernando at all costs. Kubica is the one driver who stands out with a combination of experience and the ability to outperform his team.

Red Bull will probably drop Webber at the end of the season. I don't see him in F1 next year. His seat will go to a Red Bull programme driver, either Algy or one of the next generation.

Schumacher has made himself too difficult to drop for Mercedes. Rosberg is safe. That second seat, when if becomes available is more likely to go to a German (Sutil, Hulkenberg, Vettel) than to Kubica.

McLaren's team works well, Button covers Hamilton's weaknesses without actually challenging him for pace, and the pairing suits McLaren's preferred status as "national team" ™ (which I absolutely object to).

None of the other teams are worth leaving Renault for.

#39 f1seb

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 16:41

The best for Kubica is to say with Renault because they are the ones who will offer him a championship winning car in 2012. :cool:


That is just a guess.

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#40 marcoferrari

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 17:06

Red Bull should fire Vettel and Webber as they both did a bad job in a fantastic car. They should hire Kubica and Buemi as a second driver.


Buemi? Any reason? Numbers, which are related to pace are clear:

2009 - Buemi - 0.800 ahead of Alguersuari in qualifying
2010 (first half) - Buemi - 0.400 ahead of Alguersuari in qualifying
2010 (second half) Buemi + 0.400 on Alguersuari on qualifying

Why should a slower driver, who definitely lost his dominance go to Red Bull? From
8 tenths advantage to 4 tenths gap, that really doesn t favour him that much... And it is not all over in terms of improving for Alguersuari... You should read what his race engineer Andrea Landi said about him...

#41 Dunder

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 17:13

Buemi? Any reason? Numbers, which are related to pace are clear:

2009 - Buemi - 0.800 ahead of Alguersuari in qualifying
2010 (first half) - Buemi - 0.400 ahead of Alguersuari in qualifying
2010 (second half) Buemi + 0.400 on Alguersuari on qualifying

Why should a slower driver, who definitely lost his dominance go to Red Bull? From
8 tenths advantage to 4 tenths gap, that really doesn t favour him that much... And it is not all over in terms of improving for Alguersuari... You should read what his race engineer Andrea Landi said about him...


I think Alguersuari has improved leaps and bounds from where he was in those awful first few races but I still don't see him being in the frame for a RBR seat.
If Webber were to leave, I think they would look outside the fold for a more established driver.


#42 KateLM

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 17:30

There have been a lot of reported paddock rumours that Webber will quit, especially if he wins the WDC. There have been a few slightly less than wholehearted denials from the team which have fuelled the rumours. It would be sad if that happened and the reigning WDC did not defend (first time since Mansell?).

Prost, 1993.

#43 Mastah

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 17:37

Nope, hello HRT. He will be paired with Kimi - they will win (1-2, I must add) every single race in that modified Toyota.

True story.

#44 Ferrari2183

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 18:05

I am 100% sure we won't see Kubica in a Ferrari next year.

This, but it has to be noted that Massa's peformances have gone from bad to worse this year. It looks like he doesn't know his ass from his elbow when on a race track these days.

He will get another opportunity next year but if he fails Ferrari will give him the boot.

#45 marcoferrari

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 18:45

I think Alguersuari has improved leaps and bounds from where he was in those awful first few races but I still don't see him being in the frame for a RBR seat.
If Webber were to leave, I think they would look outside the fold for a more established driver.


I am also thinking that it is too soon for Alguersuari to step into RB... He should stay for another year at STR to gain more experience... But in 2012, if his next year s performances are good I don t see why he could not get the cockpit beside Vettel...

#46 swiniodzik

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 18:52

Kubica at Ferrari could happen one day but probably not before 2012 when some important questions are answered. Can Renault give him a car capable of challenging for wins? Is Massa's poor performance this year a one off or will he hamper their WCC chances again next year? Is Ferrari permanently returning to the Todt philosophy of running the team with a clearly defined leader?

If Renault can't live up to their promises soon it'll be interesting to see whether, and if so, which other top teams except for Ferrari go after Robert then. Mercedes has yet to show they're a top team and not the poor old Honda outfit because their current machine would suggest so. McLaren seems to have a competitive and the most peaceful line-up of all the top teams so one would assume they're locked for years. But I can well imagine Red Bull going for Kubica if Webber calls it a day and especially if Vettel still can't significantly improve his racecraft. I'd love seeing Robert competing alongside Alonso, Hamilton or Vettel in one team but the most important thing is to see him in a top car finally. I believe he'll prove many of his critics wrong when it hopefully happens.

#47 TURU

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 18:54

I thought this was a thread about Kubica and Renault/Lotus deal, not about Algersuari and the most exciting F1 team ever - Scuderia Toro Rosso. I must have been wrong ...

Besides, I think he will stay at Renault (or whatever name it will bear) next season. Simply because there are no top seats available, unless Webber calls it a day, which is highly unlikely IMO. 2012 and beyond though is a completely different story.

Edited by TURU, 09 November 2010 - 18:58.


#48 DontPanic

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 19:04

Kubica at Ferrari could happen one day but probably not before 2012 when some important questions are answered. Can Renault give him a car capable of challenging for wins? Is Massa's poor performance this year a one off or will he hamper their WCC chances again next year? Is Ferrari permanently returning to the Todt philosophy of running the team with a clearly defined leader?

If Renault can't live up to their promises soon it'll be interesting to see whether, and if so, which other top teams except for Ferrari go after Robert then. Mercedes has yet to show they're a top team and not the poor old Honda outfit because their current machine would suggest so. McLaren seems to have a competitive and the most peaceful line-up of all the top teams so one would assume they're locked for years. But I can well imagine Red Bull going for Kubica if Webber calls it a day and especially if Vettel still can't significantly improve his racecraft. I'd love seeing Robert competing alongside Alonso, Hamilton or Vettel in one team but the most important thing is to see him in a top car finally. I believe he'll prove many of his critics wrong when it hopefully happens.


Well, he got beaten by nick, so chances are he would be beaten by alonso and co, apart from vettel.


#49 TURU

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 19:12

Well, he got beaten by nick, so chances are he would be beaten by alonso and co, apart from vettel.

:kiss:

There is always such possibility, but we will never know for sure until he is given a chance. As swiniodzik said, when he finally (patience is a virtue I know, but man I'm dying here :p ) gets a top car, he will prove many people how terribly wrong they were. But for now, we should drop this discussion. Wait and see. :wave:

#50 marcoferrari

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 19:16

I thought this was a thread about Kubica and Renault/Lotus deal, not about Algersuari and the most exciting F1 team ever - Scuderia Toro Rosso. I must have been wrong ...

Besides, I think he will stay at Renault (or whatever name it will bear) next season. Simply because there are no top seats available, unless Webber calls it a day, which is highly unlikely IMO. 2012 and beyond though is a completely different story.


Buemi was mentioned here and I asked for a reason, why he should go to RB (beside Kubica), when he is slower then his teammate...

And... You should at least learn how to write his surname right... That also tells something...

Edited by marcoferrari, 09 November 2010 - 19:17.