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Will there be Mclaren - RBR collusion?


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#1 ViMaMo

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 15:39

Suppose Lewis gets the pole and RBR are on the front, what are the chances of a secret pact. We have seen it earlier. Williams-Mclaren doing it.

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#2 race addicted

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 15:43

Suppose Lewis gets the pole and RBR are on the front, what are the chances of a secret pact. We have seen it earlier. Williams-Mclaren doing it.


I saw more collusion between Sauber and Ferrari in that race I believe you have in mind.

#3 Dunder

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 15:43

Ferrari had better get on the phone to Peter Sauber quick then, eh?

In all seriousness, no I see no logical reason why McLaren would care whether a Ferrari driver or a Red Bull driver wins the WDC.

Edited by Dunder, 12 November 2010 - 15:45.


#4 TurboF1

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 15:44

Suppose Lewis gets the pole and RBR are on the front, what are the chances of a secret pact. We have seen it earlier. Williams-Mclaren doing it.



They'd have to be on pole first. That means outpacing the F10 & the RB6 by a decent margin, when less than 7 days ago they couldnt hang at all. Don't see it happening to be honest.

#5 ViMaMo

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 16:05

I saw more collusion between Sauber and Ferrari in that race I believe you have in mind.


A DC fan...

Please do explain. Mclaren openly left Williams to take the win.



#6 Dunder

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 16:09

A DC fan...

Please do explain. Mclaren openly left Williams to take the win.


The Sauber cars (as had been the pattern for most of the season) were blocking Villeneuve when being lapped whilst jumping out of the way of Scumacher. Fontana was especially blatant.

Btw. It was Williams that allowed McLaren to take the win.

Edited by Dunder, 12 November 2010 - 16:10.


#7 phil1993

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 16:18

Change the 'u' to an 'i' and I would believe it...

#8 sosidge

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 16:20

Suppose Lewis gets the pole and RBR are on the front, what are the chances of a secret pact. We have seen it earlier. Williams-Mclaren doing it.


Quick answer - NO.

Longer answer - there is a big difference between letting a rival take a race win, and letting a rival take the WDC.

#9 smitten

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 16:42

What reason would you give for such an event? I can think of no benefit to either McLaren driver for colluding with RBR.

#10 Owen

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 16:44

To what end purpose would it serve? and to what benefit to McLaren?
In short: no.

#11 engel

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 16:50

A DC fan...

Please do explain. Mclaren openly left Williams to take the win.



Huh? McLaren protected Villeneuve's back in exchange for the win. What are you talking about?

#12 PayasYouRace

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 16:52

The real question is what actions on the track will bring out accusations of collusion from members of this forum? I suspect a totally innocent incident will have a number of conspiracy theorists standing up.

#13 EVO2

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 16:59

I have no doubt that Lewis would much rather see MW take the title than Alonso or, possibly Vettel but I can't see any prospect whatsoever of Lewis giving up a race win or even a place to help it happen. Nor should he.

Ignoring what went on earlier in the season, it's tragic that a single little mistake and the resulting spin have probably cost Mark the title this year.

But however much we like him as a person, I have to say that Vettel probably deserves the title more : he's had the edge over Mark for most of the year and that last engine failure was not his fault.

If Alonso becomes WDC on Sunday, we must all hope he wins it by a margin of 8 points or more. Then it can be said he truly deserved it.

And that's in everyone's interest.



#14 milestone 11

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 16:59

What reason would you give for such an event? I can think of no benefit to either McLaren driver for colluding with RBR.

Were Lewis to be leading on the last lap, followed by Mark and Nando, I'm more than a little unsure that he wouldnt give the place to Mark. he has clearly stated that he would rather Mark win the WDC if he couldn't win it himself. JB too, appears to hold a similar view. The race has all the makings of the most dramatic for many years.


#15 SRi130Brett

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 17:01

Im going to send the conspiracy theroists into meltdown here.

Toro Rosso Ferrari. Who will they colude with?



#16 Tstag

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 17:01

They'd have to be on pole first. That means outpacing the F10 & the RB6 by a decent margin, when less than 7 days ago they couldnt hang at all. Don't see it happening to be honest.


I would have agreed with you this morning, but now I've looked at the track layout I'm starting to wonder if it actually suits the Mclaren. Lots of corners in this track which don't work so well for the RBR and lot's of straights which works for the Mclaren.

Still I can't see Lewis getting a message from the pits 'Mark Webber is faster than you, confirm you understand Lewis"..... :-)

I have a weird feeling Lewis and Jensen will get 1st and 2nd, Vettle will sit in third, Alonso's engine will go and Webber will spin off.... handing Hamilton the title. Stranger things have happened.

#17 smitten

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 17:03

Were Lewis to be leading on the last lap, followed by Mark and Nando, I'm more than a little unsure that he wouldnt give the place to Mark. he has clearly stated that he would rather Mark win the WDC if he couldn't win it himself. JB too, appears to hold a similar view. The race has all the makings of the most dramatic for many years.


It is a bit of a leap from a driver expressing a preference for the WDC to giving up a win to ensure it for somebody from another team.


#18 as65p

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 17:12

If Alonso becomes WDC on Sunday, we must all hope he wins it by a margin of 8 points or more. Then it can be said he truly deserved it.

And that's in everyone's interest.


As if that would help.

3 secs after he'd become WDC someone would open a thread "Is Alonso only champion because Massa was no.2 all year?"

So screw it, I say. Any margin is fine that wins the title, period.

#19 plastik2k9

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 17:13

The real question is what actions on the track will bring out accusations of collusion from members of this forum? I suspect a totally innocent incident will have a number of conspiracy theorists standing up.

Whoever is champion, there will be the predictable theories and complaint topics:

"Vettel favoured by RBR for title.. worst champion ever"
"Whole championship ruined by team orders.. Alonso worst champion ever"
"Race ruined by team orders.. Webber worst champion ever"
"Hamilton got lucky.. worst champion ever"
"McLarens secretly using KERS??"
"EXPOSED: Todt authorised EMP used to disable Webber's car"

Add any hint of collusion to the mix, and the forum will probably collapse.

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#20 milestone 11

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 17:14

It is a bit of a leap from a driver expressing a preference for the WDC to giving up a win to ensure it for somebody from another team.

Agreed, but it's not unprecedented.
I would given a similar set of circumstances. :blush:


#21 femi

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 17:20

RB and Mclaren are not the best of friends so I think no.
My sympathies lies with Weber and I suspect a lot of the other F1 drivers as well, he is the loneliest of all the drivers still in the hunt - even his team are not backing him. What a shame.

#22 Gareth

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 17:47

Change the 'u' to an 'i' and I would believe it...

:lol: :up:

#23 Anonymous

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 17:51

Longer answer - there is a big difference between letting a rival take a race win, and letting a rival take the WDC.


I would do that for Webber without hesitation.

#24 jeze

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 17:56

Forget it :wave:

#25 EVO2

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 17:59

As if that would help.
3 secs after he'd become WDC someone would open a thread "Is Alonso only champion because Massa was no.2 all year?"
So screw it, I say. Any margin is fine that wins the title, period.


But there's a huge difference between Alonso scoring more points because he's been faster than Massa all year and winning the world championship only because your teammate has been cynically ordered to move over.

If Lewis decided to move over for Mark ( a big if ) I would hope it wouldn't benefit Mark by more than the 7 points Alonso was gifted by Massa.
That would be fair. Extremely unlikely, but fair.


#26 Earthling

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 18:35

What about the points Webber lost from Vettel crashing into him in Turkey?
I would like to see Vettel move over if the situation comes to it.

#27 Donka

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 18:56

But there's a huge difference between Alonso scoring more points because he's been faster than Massa all year and winning the world championship only because your teammate has been cynically ordered to move over.

If Lewis decided to move over for Mark ( a big if ) I would hope it wouldn't benefit Mark by more than the 7 points Alonso was gifted by Massa.
That would be fair. Extremely unlikely, but fair.



7pts is the max single gap and it would have to be Hamilton leading and giving up the win to Webber. Only way it could be more than 7 is if he let Webber and Vettel by for a 1-2, and took 3rd.

#28 Donka

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 19:01

What about the points Webber lost from Vettel crashing into him in Turkey?
I would like to see Vettel move over if the situation comes to it.


What about all the points the Renault engine reliability cost Vettel, would you also like to see Kubica/Petrov pull-over, wreck the Ferrari. The blame game/retribution can go on forever.

#29 simplyfast

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 19:05

Suppose Lewis gets the pole and RBR are on the front, what are the chances of a secret pact. We have seen it earlier. Williams-Mclaren doing it.

so now you see Alonso losing the title you want to dream up more crap.
Hows about this for the truth the driver and car were not good enough to beat RBR fairly or unfairly over the course of the season. :clap:

#30 Sausage

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 19:06

Can we mention Glock in this thread? He almost took away Hamilton's title by staying out on dry tires! Obviously Toyota and Ferrari were colluding :mad: :p

#31 One

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 19:07

Vettel to hit sidepod of Ham, like in Spa.

#32 Dunder

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 19:10

Can we mention Glock in this thread? He almost took away Hamilton's title by staying out on dry tires! Obviously Toyota and Ferrari were colluding :mad: :p


Yup they put Trulli out for a glory lap in qualifying too, just to interfere with Hamilton.
Conspiracies can be made out of just about anything if you try hard enough.


#33 JustinCider

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 19:13

so now you see Alonso losing the title you want to dream up more crap.
Hows about this for the truth the driver and car were not good enough to beat RBR fairly or unfairly over the course of the season. :clap:


It isn't crap. The Williams / McLaren pact is well known.

My point is this. In 2008, Alonso said he would do everything he could to help Massa win the title, even though they were in different teams. If Hamilton gets pole position, then why shouldn't he repay the sporting gesture ? I would.

#34 BRK

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 19:26

I see no reason why there shouldn't be an agreement between them.

#35 EVO2

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 19:33

My point is this. In 2008, Alonso said he would do everything he could to help Massa win the title, even though they were in different teams. If Hamilton gets pole position, then why shouldn't he repay the sporting gesture ? I would.

He shouldn't : because it would just devalue the championship.

For the record, I don't want to see any driver helping another to win the title unless he's in the same team, he has no further chance of winning the title himself, AND he moves over of his own accord.

That certainly doesn't include Ferrari ordering Massa to move over as early in the series as Germany.



#36 velgajski1

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 20:09

Yes, there will be because whole world is always against Fernando Alonso.

#37 Ricardo F1

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 20:17

Huh? McLaren protected Villeneuve's back in exchange for the win. What are you talking about?

Never happened. The only collusion at Jerez that day was Sauber blocking Villeneuve while letting Schumacher sail by. The only intrusion upon Ferrari was done by Frentzen. In a Williams.

And no, Hamilton will win the race if it's there to be won.

Edited by Ricardo F1, 12 November 2010 - 20:18.


#38 JustinCider

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 20:19

My point is this. In 2008, Alonso said he would do everything he could to help Massa win the title, even though they were in different teams. If Hamilton gets pole position, then why shouldn't he repay the sporting gesture ? I would.

He shouldn't : because it would just devalue the championship.

For the record, I don't want to see any driver helping another to win the title unless he's in the same team, he has no further chance of winning the title himself, AND he moves over of his own accord.

That certainly doesn't include Ferrari ordering Massa to move over as early in the series as Germany.


I know he shouldn't. That's the point. Alonso went on record and said he would do everything to help Massa to capture the 2008 WDC. What business of it was his ? None at all. He actually stated that he would happily work with another team to deny his most bitter rival success. So if RB & McLaren conclude, then it's fair game.

Karma is a bitch.

#39 goat0063

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 20:36

Change the 'u' to an 'i' and I would believe it...

:lol:

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#40 Alfisti

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 20:46

I have no doubt that Lewis would much rather see MW take the title than Alonso or, possibly Vettel but I can't see any prospect whatsoever of Lewis giving up a race win or even a place to help it happen. Nor should he.

Ignoring what went on earlier in the season, it's tragic that a single little mistake and the resulting spin have probably cost Mark the title this year.

But however much we like him as a person, I have to say that Vettel probably deserves the title more : he's had the edge over Mark for most of the year and that last engine failure was not his fault.

If Alonso becomes WDC on Sunday, we must all hope he wins it by a margin of 8 points or more. Then it can be said he truly deserved it.

And that's in everyone's interest.



Someone close the internets, this post wins.

First sensible post on this board in months i swear it.

#41 JustinCider

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 20:49

Someone close the internets, this post wins.

First sensible post on this board in months i swear it.


+1 for Evo's post. However, as i've stated, i'd find it subtly ironic if Hamilton moved over to allow Webber the win.

#42 EVO2

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 23:57

+1 for Evo's post. However, as i've stated, i'd find it subtly ironic if Hamilton moved over to allow Webber the win.

Thanks Guys ! Whatever happens, lets hope it's a good race.
At least this year there's nobody in the hunt for the championship like Michael Schumacher or Ayrton Senna.

If either of them was in Alonso's position they would cynically try to take out MW at the start to secure their WDC.

#43 smitten

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 00:01

If either of them was in Alonso's position they would cynically try to take out MW at the start to secure their WDC.


Hamilton and Webber? I'd like to think no driver would do that (and there is only one on the grid with a history of that sort of thing).

#44 slideways

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 00:51

I could see Lewis 'letting him through' a bit easier than Alonso if for lower positions but he's far too much a racer to sacrifice a win or podium.

Edited by slideways, 13 November 2010 - 00:51.


#45 Birelman

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 03:34

Heck I'm just dying to read the reactions of the Tifosi when something does happen that implies the result was somehow manipulated, be it by collussion between teams, drivers, personal preferences of the driers, or team orders.

I'm just dying to read the hypocrisy when Alonso loses by presicely what would have granted him the title in the first place :rotfl:

#46 teejay

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 03:47

Vettel to hit sidepod of Ham, like in Spa.


Except it was Button he hit

#47 femi

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 08:50

Thanks Guys ! Whatever happens, lets hope it's a good race.
At least this year there's nobody in the hunt for the championship like Michael Schumacher or Ayrton Senna.

If either of them was in Alonso's position they would cynically try to take out MW at the start to secure their WDC.


It is a very tempting situation and won't bet a dime that if given the opportunity, Alonso won't fall for it. All it takes is a fraction of a second. Weber should qualify far ahead of Alonso and do all he could to ensure there is a fast car between them and for this reason, I hope JB qualifies ahead of Alonso.

At the end of the day, wa all are human beings.

#48 aditya-now

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 09:01

Suppose Lewis gets the pole and RBR are on the front, what are the chances of a secret pact. We have seen it earlier. Williams-Mclaren doing it.


It would backfire pretty heavily on Red Bulls image, which is not what Dietrich Mateschitz wants.

He rather will sacrifice the WDC title for having the image of a clean, fun-based racing team who do not sacrifice all their values in the name of success.
In a way Red Bull and Mateschitz may win even more comprehensively (on a different plane) by not winning the WDC....


#49 velgajski1

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 09:14

It would backfire pretty heavily on Red Bulls image, which is not what Dietrich Mateschitz wants.

He rather will sacrifice the WDC title for having the image of a clean, fun-based racing team who do not sacrifice all their values in the name of success.
In a way Red Bull and Mateschitz may win even more comprehensively (on a different plane) by not winning the WDC....


+ Lewis would not give race win just like that, I don't think he really cares who wins it.