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#1 DrF

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 16:01

Does anyone wonder what might have happened if DC had signed another contract with Red Bull, instead of giving his seat to Vettel?

Yes, he was having a lot of Contact in his final year, but if he'd stayed and was driving the 2010 Red Bull would he also be in contention?

I mean, that car in anybody's hands is in a league of its own. DC could have been WDC, what do you think?

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#2 George Costanza

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 16:15

Does anyone wonder what might have happened if DC had signed another contract with Red Bull, instead of giving his seat to Vettel?

Yes, he was having a lot of Contact in his final year, but if he'd stayed and was driving the 2010 Red Bull would he also be in contention?

I mean, that car in anybody's hands is in a league of its own. DC could have been WDC, what do you think?



DC wouldn't exactly be in his prime.

But then again, Mansell wasn't when he won 1992, but Mansell is a far far better driver than DC and the Williams was a better car compared to Red Bull.



#3 Fastcake

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 16:17

No, he was getting past it in 2008, would be a waste of the sports best seat.

He was good in his day, but his last years were really making up the numbers.

#4 phil1993

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 16:17

I think Webber would have wiped the floor with him in all honesty. DC was pretty poor in his final season but I think he would have taken podiums.

#5 sosidge

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 16:18

I doubt DC would beat Webber over the season.

Then again, nobody would have expected Webber to be ahead of Vettel after 18 of 19 rounds. You never know what can happen during a season.

#6 hotstickyslick

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 16:21

Red Bull obviously weren't willing to extend their contract with him and he knew it which was why he announced his retirement at Silverstone.


In my opinion he was well past it by 2003 and I really couldn't see him doing the RB5 and RB6 any justice.



#7 phil1993

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 16:23

I thought DC was pretty decent at the Nurburgring in 2005 but apart from that, few races stick out.

#8 SRi130Brett

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 16:24

DC was my fav driver, but he was past it in 08 and it wouldnt be any better now.

A younger DC? yes, no doubt he would have beaten Webber.

#9 paulrobs

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 17:50

All the evidence seems to indicate that DC would have been slower than Webber. The things is though you can't underestimate what an effect it has suddenly having a competitive car that you know you can win the championship with. You start to believe in yourself more, you do even more preparation for every race, you raise your game, you really think you can finally do it. To be honest Button surprised me last year with how he was when he got a car that was very competitive. I think we'd have seen a different DC if he'd been racing this year's Red Bull, no question, and his racecraft would have been right up there too.

#10 tohru222

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 17:54

DC was my fav driver, but he was past it in 08 and it wouldnt be any better now.

A younger DC? yes, no doubt he would have beaten Webber.


No doubt? Just how do you know that? Coulthard was beaten by Hill, Hakkinen and Raikkonen. As far as I remember, of his teammates he only beat Liuzzi.

#11 race addicted

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 17:56

DC was my fav driver, but he was past it in 08 and it wouldnt be any better now.

A younger DC? yes, no doubt he would have beaten Webber.


I agree with everything. He didn't have a too good last season, but I believe if the DC from '00 to '02 had met the Webber of this year, it would've been DC a little ahead.


#12 Dunder

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 17:57

DC would not have retired if he felt he still had a realistic chance of beating/matching Webber.
If he was driving this year, I think he would do a good job in backing up Webber for the championship.

The DC from 2000 or 2001 would certainly take the fight to Webber and I think he was a stronger racer but I suspect Webber would comfortably outqualify him.

#13 race addicted

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 18:05

No doubt? Just how do you know that? Coulthard was beaten by Hill, Hakkinen and Raikkonen. As far as I remember, of his teammates he only beat Liuzzi.


One cannot know, but speaking for myself it's a hunch. They were driving the same machinery in '07 and '08, and in '07, when he had a very good season I think, there wasn't much between them for pace.

At Williams the feeling was that the wrong man left them in '95, as DC appeared better than Hill in his first full season. He got four poles in a row, was faster than Hill on average in qualifying, and took a great win.

Yes, Häkkinen beat him in a couple of seasons, but DC also beat him, in '97 and '01, and by that I'm not just thinking points-wise. He had slightly better seasons.
Räikkönen drove together with DC in '02, '03 and '04. '02 I think DC was better but Räikkönen were showing that he had greater potential.
...which showed in the next two seasons, but '03 and '04 were DC's two worst years, as he fell apart pshycologically from retiring from wins, and because he started screwing up his Q-laps. It wasn't that he wasn't quick enough, it was just a series of mistakes through the lap. Mind you, he was still closer to Räikkönen in these two bad years, than Montoya was.

Liuzzi was definately not on DC's level, and neither was Klien, but both are good drivers.

#14 SRi130Brett

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 18:20

No doubt? Just how do you know that? Coulthard was beaten by Hill, Hakkinen and Raikkonen. As far as I remember, of his teammates he only beat Liuzzi.


I think race addicted replied basically as I would. Its an opinion, and only mine at that!

#15 simplyfast

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 18:24

Does anyone wonder what might have happened if DC had signed another contract with Red Bull, instead of giving his seat to Vettel?

Yes, he was having a lot of Contact in his final year, but if he'd stayed and was driving the 2010 Red Bull would he also be in contention?

I mean, that car in anybody's hands is in a league of its own. DC could have been WDC, what do you think?

you forget he is still employed by red bull or have you not seen his licking up to CH every show

#16 DrF

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 19:17

All the evidence seems to indicate that DC would have been slower than Webber. The things is though you can't underestimate what an effect it has suddenly having a competitive car that you know you can win the championship with. You start to believe in yourself more, you do even more preparation for every race, you raise your game, you really think you can finally do it. To be honest Button surprised me last year with how he was when he got a car that was very competitive. I think we'd have seen a different DC if he'd been racing this year's Red Bull, no question, and his racecraft would have been right up there too.

In 2007 DC finished 10th, WEB finished 12th and in 2008 DC finished 16th while WEB finished 11th. The following year WEB finished 4th and this year he's battling Alonso for the WDC. Who's to say that DC wouldn't have responded to the car in the same way as WEB has? He's no older than the likes of MS and RB. I can't help but feel that he retired just as his star began to shine and I really wish he'd had the opportunity to prove himself and win the WDC after being the 'other guy' for so many years.

#17 Sausage

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 19:44

Well anyway, he had incredible cars in 98/99 and got beaten, same with Kimi later on. What more could he want? Sorry, I don't rate him highly. But he comes across as a very nice guy having a fun job and a satisfying life, so I doubt he cares much.

#18 eoin

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 19:50

DC drove 4 cars that fought for the WDC and never got close to winning the title in any of those years- do some people need another year of DC under performing to prove that he doesn't have what it takes? Heck the guy even admitted it live on air this year!

Edited by eoin, 12 November 2010 - 19:50.


#19 tohru222

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 20:03

At Williams the feeling was that the wrong man left them in '95, as DC appeared better than Hill in his first full season. He got four poles in a row, was faster than Hill on average in qualifying, and took a great win.

Huh the wrong man left? Not at all. Let's look the races instead of qualifying, Hill won 4 races, lost another Brazil due to mechanical failure plus he had those two crashes Schumacher at Silverstone and Monza. Coulthard won only 1 race and made silly errors like the famous Adelaide crash in pit lane. At the end of year Hill was 20 points ahead in same machinery which tells the story.

Yes, Häkkinen beat him in a couple of seasons, but DC also beat him, in '97 and '01, and by that I'm not just thinking points-wise.

In my opinion Coulthard only beat Hakkinen in '01 when the Finn was already demotivated. In '96 Hakkinen finished on top, '97 is debatable but Hakkinen lost two races Austria and Luxemburg due to engine failure while leading. '08, '09 and '00 clearly Hakkinen ahead. Just take 1998 for example Hakkinen world champion with 8 wins, 9 poles, 100 points versus Coulthard 1 win, 3 poles 56 points. Hakkinen was the faster driver, period.

Räikkönen drove together with DC in '02, '03 and '04. '02 I think DC was better but Räikkönen were showing that he had greater potential.
...which showed in the next two seasons, but '03 and '04 were DC's two worst years, as he fell apart pshycologically from retiring from wins, and because he started screwing up his Q-laps. It wasn't that he wasn't quick enough, it was just a series of mistakes through the lap. Mind you, he was still closer to Räikkönen in these two bad years, than Montoya was.

Raikkonen beat him convincingly, and it's not true that he was closer to him than Montoya, go check the results of the races please.


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#20 Talking Point

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 21:07

Well look at Barrichello for an example of a similarly talented driver who was arguably ready for the F1 scrap heap at the end of 2006, very nearly finished by the end of 2008 but when he made a surprise comeback at BrawnGP last year he did quite well and was a championship contender until right near the end.
With this in mind I find it hard to predict how DC would've faired in the past two seasons at RedBull, but my gut instinct tells me he'd have been slow and only scored a few podiums at best.

#21 taran

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 21:17

One cannot know, but speaking for myself it's a hunch. They were driving the same machinery in '07 and '08, and in '07, when he had a very good season I think, there wasn't much between them for pace.

At Williams the feeling was that the wrong man left them in '95, as DC appeared better than Hill in his first full season. He got four poles in a row, was faster than Hill on average in qualifying, and took a great win.

Yes, Häkkinen beat him in a couple of seasons, but DC also beat him, in '97 and '01, and by that I'm not just thinking points-wise. He had slightly better seasons.
Räikkönen drove together with DC in '02, '03 and '04. '02 I think DC was better but Räikkönen were showing that he had greater potential.
...which showed in the next two seasons, but '03 and '04 were DC's two worst years, as he fell apart pshycologically from retiring from wins, and because he started screwing up his Q-laps. It wasn't that he wasn't quick enough, it was just a series of mistakes through the lap. Mind you, he was still closer to Räikkönen in these two bad years, than Montoya was.

Liuzzi was definately not on DC's level, and neither was Klien, but both are good drivers.


This seems a rather pro-DC view of these seasons. In 1995, he initially failed to shine and only the latter part of the season did he do really well. And even then, he only had 1 win to show for it.
Villeneuve did much better in his rookie season than DC did in his 1.5 seasons at Williams with arguably similarly competitive machinery.

In 1997, DC might have had more results but Hakkinen was the faster driver but suffered appaling reliability. DC won when the car finished, Hakkinen was usually ahead though.

And as for the comparison with Montoya, the Colombian did win 3 races against Raikkonen, despite being in his first year and having his "tennis accident". On speed, Montoya certainly had DC covered as a team mate....


#22 pingu666

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 21:22

last season and abit of DC driving it wasnt so good, wasnt very fast, and he crashed into alot of things :x, so he would of needed a massive turn around in form and consistancy


#23 JustinCider

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 21:23

DC was never consistant. He never won back to back races despite the equipment he had at his disposal. He quit a season to late, IMO, he would not have been an asset to RB in 2009, and more than likely a liability this year.

#24 JackTorrance

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 21:26

I remember an article in Autosport saying DC wasnt the complete driver because he had some 'bogey tracks', places where he could not find speed. Schumacher once said he wasnt very quick in fast corners. Yet I did enjoy his days at Williams. He impressed a lot as a rookie. Shame he kinda fell apart at Mclaren later on against Mika. ANd his last years were full of crashes and incidents. Let him stay retired.

#25 JustinCider

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 21:30

I remember an article in Autosport saying DC wasnt the complete driver because he had some 'bogey tracks', places where he could not find speed. Schumacher once said he wasnt very quick in fast corners. Yet I did enjoy his days at Williams. He impressed a lot as a rookie. Shame he kinda fell apart at Mclaren later on against Mika. ANd his last years were full of crashes and incidents. Let him stay retired.


It's not often i agree with you....

#26 d246

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 21:44

He was good, sometimes very good, in his day. To have him driving a Red Bull now would be flogging a dead horse and denying a younger driver an opportunity. Schuh at Merc?!

#27 DrF

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 22:36

DC drove 4 cars that fought for the WDC and never got close to winning the title in any of those years- do some people need another year of DC under performing to prove that he doesn't have what it takes? Heck the guy even admitted it live on air this year!

He was always the 'other guy'. Red Bull was basically built around him, it was his chance to shine but the first cars had a lot of problems and I think he lost his Mojo. How to explain Webbers results jumping from so-so to right at the sharp end in one season?

#28 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 01:02

DC was too bizay slamming his junk down on the 14 slot in his final season.

#29 slideways

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 01:14

Yeah DC became a very messy racer in his final years. Maybe he could have turned it around but I don't think anyone was going to give him the chance, so he 'retired'.

#30 race addicted

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 02:08

Huh the wrong man left? Not at all. Let's look the races instead of qualifying, Hill won 4 races, lost another Brazil due to mechanical failure plus he had those two crashes Schumacher at Silverstone and Monza. Coulthard won only 1 race and made silly errors like the famous Adelaide crash in pit lane. At the end of year Hill was 20 points ahead in same machinery which tells the story.

In my opinion Coulthard only beat Hakkinen in '01 when the Finn was already demotivated. In '96 Hakkinen finished on top, '97 is debatable but Hakkinen lost two races Austria and Luxemburg due to engine failure while leading. '08, '09 and '00 clearly Hakkinen ahead. Just take 1998 for example Hakkinen world champion with 8 wins, 9 poles, 100 points versus Coulthard 1 win, 3 poles 56 points. Hakkinen was the faster driver, period.


Raikkonen beat him convincingly, and it's not true that he was closer to him than Montoya, go check the results of the races please.


Yeah, that was the saying; in the paddock and internally at Williams; the more talented driver had left. The infamous Adelaide-crash was DC's own fault, but not in the way it looked. He wasn't sharp enough to his mechanics, 'cause there was a throttle linkage problem which DC noticed on Saturday morning, but he only told his guys to "fix it if they had time to", or something along that tune.

Häkkinen beat DC in all seasons apart from '97 and '01, I've no problems saying that, but in those two particular seasons DC performed better I think. Remember DC lost a win in Canada '97 and also had to give way at Jerez. There was another race that also meant a lot of points lost but I don't remember which now.
In '01 Häkkinen scored two of his best wins ever actually - Silverstone and USA - so I don't think he was demaotivated at all. However there may've been a shift in the team towards DC, as Dennis & co knew relatively early that the finn was planning to retire.
About a shift towards one driver; mid-season '00 McLaren went Häkkinen's way with developments, and that made the pendulum swing away from DC, who up untill that point had been better than Häkkinen, or atleast his equal.


This seems a rather pro-DC view of these seasons. In 1995, he initially failed to shine and only the latter part of the season did he do really well. And even then, he only had 1 win to show for it.
Villeneuve did much better in his rookie season than DC did in his 1.5 seasons at Williams with arguably similarly competitive machinery.

In 1997, DC might have had more results but Hakkinen was the faster driver but suffered appaling reliability. DC won when the car finished, Hakkinen was usually ahead though.

And as for the comparison with Montoya, the Colombian did win 3 races against Raikkonen, despite being in his first year and having his "tennis accident". On speed, Montoya certainly had DC covered as a team mate....


The '97-season, see above.

About Räikkönen/Montoya/DC - clearly I'm talking pace. I even sent a question to Noble(?) that got answered here on autosport.com, about who of the two, Montoya or DC, was better. As I said, even in DC's worst seasons he did better against Räikkönen than Montoya did. The answer I got backed up my view.
I believe the intra team review from '03 or '04 said that DC was 0.29 secs away from Räikkönen while Montoya was actually approaching four tenths.
Take that with a pinch of salt though, 'cause I'm not 100% sure but I usually have a good memory when numbers are involved.

#31 Seanspeed

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 02:18

Webber wiped the floor with DC two years straight.

So no, DC would not be in contention this year without a major helping of luck.

#32 Jazza

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 02:33

About Räikkönen/Montoya/DC - clearly I'm talking pace. I even sent a question to Noble(?) that got answered here on autosport.com, about who of the two, Montoya or DC, was better. As I said, even in DC's worst seasons he did better against Räikkönen than Montoya did. The answer I got backed up my view.
I believe the intra team review from '03 or '04 said that DC was 0.29 secs away from Räikkönen while Montoya was actually approaching four tenths.
Take that with a pinch of salt though, 'cause I'm not 100% sure but I usually have a good memory when numbers are involved.


In 04 DC looked lost. At the end of the season KR was fighting the Ferraris for wins and podiums, while DC was fighting for points. Races like spa had to make you wonder if they even had the same car, so large was the gap between them in lap speed. It is hard to believe that he was closer to kimi than JPM.


#33 race addicted

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 02:44

In 04 DC looked lost. At the end of the season KR was fighting the Ferraris for wins and podiums, while DC was fighting for points. Races like spa had to make you wonder if they even had the same car, so large was the gap between them in lap speed. It is hard to believe that he was closer to kimi than JPM.


The explanation fully lies in DC being hit by Trulli early in the race, which damaged his diffuser and a deflector, and who knows what else, when he had to drag his car round 3/4 of a lap (Spa is loooong!) on three wheels basically.
He would've battled with Schumacher without that and finished second or third.
He was more solid against Räikkönen in '04 than in '03 I believe.

#34 LukeM

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 02:48

Coulthard on his day was as fast if not faster than Hakkinen/Raikkonen/Webber, but his days would sometimes be far and few between and often track dependant eg. Monaco, Interlagos, Nurburgring he always aced. That was why he never strung it together a championship which he should have won in 1999 if he stayed on the track in the wet at Nurburgring.

#35 Supersleeper

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 04:36

Does anyone wonder what might have happened if DC had signed another contract with Red Bull, instead of giving his seat to Vettel?

Dc never gave his seat to Vettel. Marko booted DC out of the team at Montreal - and despite an agreement that DC would make the announcement on his own terms at Silverstone - Marko promptly went out in the following days and blabbed to the world that Vettel was the new star in the team. DC was never going to get another contract whilst Marko could install one of his own born and bred drivers.....that someone else found for him.

Always liked DC though - made a few mistakes, but wasn't a bullshit artist - a rare talent in this sport.


#36 DrF

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 08:24

Webber wiped the floor with DC two years straight.

So no, DC would not be in contention this year without a major helping of luck.

LOL don't you love this reinterpretation of history? As for 'luck' ALO and WEB both owe their current positions in the championship to a fair bit of luck.

Using WEB as a yardstick, I'd say DC'd be at the sharp end this year, not necessarily beating WEB, but definitly in contetion.

#37 mkoscevic

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 11:54

The DC from 2000 or 2001 would certainly take the fight to Webber and I think he was a stronger racer but I suspect Webber would comfortably outqualify him.


Yeah. :up:

DC from 10 years ago would be somewhere around Webber's pace this year, but not DC from the last few years really as it was obvious there's no real passion left there.

About a shift towards one driver; mid-season '00 McLaren went Häkkinen's way with developments, and that made the pendulum swing away from DC, who up untill that point had been better than Häkkinen, or atleast his equal.


Are you sure about that? Can you provide any details about it?

#38 Disgrace

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 12:43

DC was unquestionably past it in 2008, I'm afraid. He couldn't use the outboard-rear mirrors and thus, collided with nearly everyone who raced him on track: Glock, Massa, Nakajima, Button, Rosberg, Nakajima again, Barrichello...

It was obvious at the time when Vettel was confirmed a fortnight or so later, DC was allowed to retire gracefully before any announcement as payback for his contribution to the team, for the decision would've been made a long time earlier.

#39 Seanspeed

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 13:09

LOL don't you love this reinterpretation of history?

Not a reinterpretation whatsoever. Its just what happened. Webber was almost always faster than DC, and usually by a fair margin.

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#40 Disgrace

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 13:54

Not a reinterpretation whatsoever.


Indeed. Coulthard outscored Webber in 2007 but only by default: Webber was robbed of considerable points in Japan (potential win) and Brazil (fourth) for starters. And 2008 was clear-cut.

#41 tohru222

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 15:44

Coulthard spent 1,5 seasons at Williams and 9 (with word: nine) seasons at McLaren. He had the best car in 1995, 1998, 1999, 2000 and second best in 1994, 2001, and in 2003 the car was probably third best but still good enough to challenge for the title as Raikkonen proved. Coulthard never ever managed to be a real title contender. nuff said.

#42 midgrid

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 15:57

Huh the wrong man left? Not at all. Let's look the races instead of qualifying, Hill won 4 races, lost another Brazil due to mechanical failure plus he had those two crashes Schumacher at Silverstone and Monza. Coulthard won only 1 race and made silly errors like the famous Adelaide crash in pit lane. At the end of year Hill was 20 points ahead in same machinery which tells the story.


Looking at the races, Coulthard retired from the lead in Belgium (gearbox) and Italy (wheel-bearing) and also lost a likely wins in Argentina and Britain with electrical problems. He had a poor start and middle part of the season (at least, when compared to Hill) as he was suffering from tonsilitis, and so Frank and Patrick decided to replace him with Villeneuve for 1996 after the German Grand Prix, where Coulthard failed to beat Schumacher despite having a faster package and a theoretically faster pit strategy (and where Hill spun out on the second lap). From that point onwards, Coulthard was usually faster than Hill (except at Hungary and Japan) and should have scored many more points but for the mechanical failures mentioned previously. What is undeniable, however, is that DC also made too many costly and embarrassing mistakes in 1995, even for a driver in his first full year in F1.

Edited by midgrid, 13 November 2010 - 15:58.


#43 teejay

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 17:41

After all those years, it could of been the year where "its my year this year" was finally the year!

#44 glorius&victorius

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 18:57

Does anyone wonder what might have happened if DC had signed another contract with Red Bull, instead of giving his seat to Vettel?

Yes, he was having a lot of Contact in his final year, but if he'd stayed and was driving the 2010 Red Bull would he also be in contention?

I mean, that car in anybody's hands is in a league of its own. DC could have been WDC, what do you think?


DC is not WDC material.. too gentle, too metrosexual, putting aloe vera hand cream before going to sleep... Webber would have eaten him

Edited by glorius&victorius, 13 November 2010 - 18:58.