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Massa and Hamilton incident in Q2


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#1 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:03

Without my OP making any kind of judgment to color the conversation, what do you think happened when Hamilton ran over that camera bollard?

Was he forced into it by Massa? Was it equally Hamilton's fault? Racing incident? Massa acting as a rogue agent? Massa acting under Ferrari's orders?



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#2 ZooL

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:15

They were both on out laps, not timed laps.

So doesn't really matter.

#3 Don_Humpador

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:16

They were both on out laps, not timed laps.

So doesn't really matter.


Sure didn't look like Massa was on an out lap.

#4 Anomnader

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:16

Both careless, both to blame, both could have done things better, leave it as a racing incident as they both went through.

#5 engel

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:17

it was a Hamilton mistake but IMO not a big enough deal to have the stewards butt in and interfere with the championship at this point. Nobody really suffered.

#6 alg7_munif

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:17

They both got into Q3 so I don't think there should be any problem since the grid positions are good for us.

Edited by alg7_munif, 13 November 2010 - 14:20.


#7 Bonaventura

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:18

Both careless, both to blame, both could have done things better, leave it as a racing incident as they both went through.

They should not spoil this great season final with any FIA investigations

#8 Lights

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:18

Hopefully there won't be a penalty, although it was a dumb move by Lewis.

#9 Francesc

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:18

At the end of Q3 there was some blocking, Rosberg was on a timed lap even if he wasn't doing his best sectors. Hamilton, Massa and Alonso blocked him.

#10 r4mses

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:19

Both careless, both to blame, both could have done things better, leave it as a racing incident as they both went through.


They both got into Q3 so I don't think there should be any problem since the grid positions are good for us.56



Amen.

#11 sha

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:19

Hamilton involved in an incident? That's new

#12 SPBHM

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:19

Hamilton looked to be going to slow on the racing line, give the impression that was letting Massa go trough and tried to keep the inside line in a strange manner, in my view it was Hamilton's fault, but I don't think that any further action needs to be taken,

#13 Anomnader

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:20

Hopefully there won't be a penalty, although it was a dumb move by Lewis.


Why wasn't it also dumb of Massa to cut someone off?

#14 tifosi

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:20

Sure didn't look like Massa was on an out lap.



Massa was on a timed lap and on teh racing line. Hamilton, going very slowly, put his car right on the apex as Massa was coming through. Probably tghought it was Alonso.

#15 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:20

Why wasn't it also dumb of Massa to cut someone off?


Massa was on a hot lap. 100% Hamiltons fault.

#16 Sausage

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:20

Funnily enough Ferrari probably doesn't want Alonso to move to 2nd either with the grid, not that that matter too much compared to Webber since he'd go to 4th but still. Reprimand again? :p

And please, there was really no reason for Ferrari to hurt Hamilton in any way. Just a miscommunication.

#17 JonC

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:21

As ZooL posted, they were both on out laps (I double checked this using the F1 App) so, in addition to the fact both got through to Q3, the fact neither was on a timed lap makes the incident an even bigger storm in a teacup.

Edited by JonC, 13 November 2010 - 14:22.


#18 robefc

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:21

If they were both on out laps then I'd say it's massa's fault, why was he cutting hamilton off?

If he was on a lap then 100% hamilton's fault, regardless of whether he knew who he was there or not.

To be fair lewis did quite well to avoid contact!

#19 wingwalker

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:22

Was Massa on a hot lap? If so, I can see Ferrari bitching about it, mostly to have Lewis out of the way. Drivers were penalized for blocking even if the the other car eventually made it, or am I wrong?

edit: if they were bouth on out laps I don't think anything is going or needs to happen, maybe a reprimand at best.

Edited by wingwalker, 13 November 2010 - 14:23.


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#20 robefc

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:22

Massa was on a hot lap. 100% Hamiltons fault.


Be good if we could find out for sure as different people are saying different things.

#21 Anomnader

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:22

Massa was on a hot lap. 100% Hamiltons fault.


A lot of people seem to disagree on it being a hot lap. 50 50, can't absolve Massa for cutting him off.

#22 Nigol

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:23

Was Massa on hot lap or not? Isn't there anyone whos 100% sure about that?

Edited by Nigol, 13 November 2010 - 14:24.


#23 primer

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:23

Lewis was caught napping. At worst there will be another useless FIA warning/reprimand. So all-in-all quite inconsequential.

#24 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:23

If they were both on out laps then I'd say it's massa's fault, why was he cutting hamilton off?

If he was on a lap then 100% hamilton's fault, regardless of whether he knew who he was there or not.

To be fair lewis did quite well to avoid contact!


Also to be fair the bollard was designed well! Lucky Hamilton didn't need a new wing.

#25 Obi Offiah

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:25

If they were both on out laps then I'd say it's massa's fault, why was he cutting hamilton off?

If he was on a lap then 100% hamilton's fault, regardless of whether he knew who he was there or not.

To be fair lewis did quite well to avoid contact!

:up:

#26 Lights

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:26

Why wasn't it also dumb of Massa to cut someone off?

Because it's a typical 'let him through' situation. Hamilton was completely off-line, slowing down. That's what you do when you want to let someone by, and from Massa's point of view it certainly looked like that. It seemed like Hamilton wasn't fully aware Massa was there.

#27 gaston_foix

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:27

Ferrari and McLaren have no interest to complain. Anyways is not even investigated...

Edited by gaston_foix, 13 November 2010 - 14:28.


#28 unoc

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:28

it would be more reckless endangerment. Yes they both got through, but barichello didn't hit the wall while schumacher got a penalty. Hamilton has been lucky this year not getting anything for blocking an attempt to slipstream for an overtake among others. He probably will get something though because not only did he stick his car and hurt someones flying lap while on a slow one himself, but he nearly damaged the cars

#29 Bruce

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:28

It was certainly odd. Still - it's not unheard of for a driver to pass for track position on an outlap, and Lewis should have heard Massa coming, and either sped up or gotten out of the way.

Still - I don't think there should be a penalty - no harm, no foul.

#30 Sarkon

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:29

It seems Hamilton can do what he wants these days. How many reprimands he collected since 08? 3,4?

He did the same with raikkonen in brazil 07 qualif, worked better back then Mr. Hamilton

#31 P123

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:30

Because it's a typical 'let him through' situation. Hamilton was completely off-line, slowing down. That's what you do when you want to let someone by, and from Massa's point of view it certainly looked like that. It seemed like Hamilton wasn't fully aware Massa was there.


Yep, nothing much to add to it. Massa's sector time was 17.5s so he was on a hot lap. Next lap his 1st sector was 17.6, so difficult to claim Hamiltom impeded him if that is what they try to do. And as Hamilton was on an outlap he can't complain about Massa- it's his job to get out of the way, assuming the twits on the McLaren pitwall actually informed him.

#32 Obi Offiah

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:31

Because it's a typical 'let him through' situation. Hamilton was completely off-line, slowing down. That's what you do when you want to let someone by, and from Massa's point of view it certainly looked like that. It seemed like Hamilton wasn't fully aware Massa was there.

If Massa wasn't on a hot lap there was no need for him to clip the apex, he could have simply driven around Hamilton.

#33 SchumiP1

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:34

When Hamilton complains, someone is bound to get penalized. And that someone will be Massa. Though it would be funny to see Hamilton get two reprimands in one weekend (=penalty?).

#34 Bonaventura

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:37

It was certainly odd. Still - it's not unheard of for a driver to pass for track position on an outlap, and Lewis should have heard Massa coming, and either sped up or gotten out of the way.

Still - I don't think there should be a penalty - no harm, no foul.

Alonso will be happy if Lewis stasy in font...

#35 Lights

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:37

If Massa wasn't on a hot lap there was no need for him to clip the apex, he could have simply driven around Hamilton.

I don't care whether Massa was on a hot lap or not. Hamilton made the mistake of getting out of somebody's way, until deciding at the last moment to turn in anyway. You can't do that, irrelevant of the circumstances. He made Massa think he was letting him through and Massa could take the corner, but then Lewis brain faded at the last second and turn in on the apex anyway. He should have just slowed down a little bit more.

#36 Crafty

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:38

My god I do wonder if some people watch the same racing as I do.

Hamilton is pacing himself to cars in front, team advise over radio of cars approaching from behind.
Lewis, unaware that two cars are closing (Massa and another that I didn't see who it was) picks up the throttle and positions the car for a tidy entry to the corner.

Massa appears alongside and cuts in. Hamilton takes avoiding action and throws the car over the kerbs and smacks the bollard whilst slowing the car down.

Massa continues whilst Hamilton drops back to find some space.

Okay ideally Hamilton should of been aware of the cars behind, he obviously wasn't - this is a team responsibility
Massa had no need to cut right in to the corner once he realised Hamilton was there given it was an out lap.

In other words Hamilton made the best of a bad situation. Massa was within right to go past, but did not need to shove the other car over kerbs like that.

A reprimand at worst is all.


#37 Anomnader

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:39

I don't care whether Massa was on a hot lap or not. Hamilton made the mistake of getting out of somebody's way, until deciding at the last moment to turn in anyway. You can't do that, irrelevant of the circumstances. He made Massa think he was letting him through and Massa could take the corner, but then Lewis brain faded at the last second and turn in on the apex anyway. He should have just slowed down a little bit more.


If Massa wasn't on a last lap then it was still 50 - 50, you can just as easily make the point that Massa cut someone off with his brain fade. Maybe Massa should have speeded up or slowed down himself.


#38 Obi Offiah

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:41

I don't care whether Massa was on a hot lap or not. Hamilton made the mistake of getting out of somebody's way, until deciding at the last moment to turn in anyway. You can't do that, irrelevant of the circumstances. He made Massa think he was letting him through and Massa could take the corner, but then Lewis brain faded at the last second and turn in on the apex anyway. He should have just slowed down a little bit more.

He was on the inside at the corner, he had to turn in. If Massa wasn't on a hot lap he wouldn't need to overtake in that fashion

#39 Scudetto

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:42

Ok, so...no contact, drivers unharmed, cars unharmed, both make it to Q3.

That's the issue again?

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#40 HAM

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:44

Lewis gave room, Massa was braking slightly too much and Lewis thought he would pass him after the corner then, but not. Pretty nice reflex move by Lewis to the left to avoid collision. I think Lewis 60% to blame and Massa 40%, but no action need to be taken as there was no hard damage and the Rosberg incident was way more harsh.

Hope there will be a GIF file of Lewis hitting the camera from the cam view. :love:

Edited by HAM, 13 November 2010 - 14:45.


#41 alg7_munif

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:44

Ok, so...no contact, drivers unharmed, cars unharmed, both make it to Q3.

That's the issue again?

The issue is Lewis will start in front of Alonso, so his fans won't like that.

#42 Lights

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:45

What was Lewis doing on that side of the track then? Why wasn't he on the racing line? You don't slow down and go off the line for no reason, it's a clear sign to the drivers behind them that he's letting them through. I really can't explain it in any other way. Hamilton sends out mixed signals, that led to contact. It's not a racing situation, it's qualifying. There is no fight. It's Hamilton slowing down off the line, so that whoever is behind, can stick to the racing line and not lose time.

#43 Dunder

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:46

Both at fault, Hamilton should have been more aware, Massa should not have turned in so aggressively.

They were both on an outlap however, no significant contact was made and both made it to Q3 so no need for the stewards to get involved.

#44 jesee

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:46

Ok, so...no contact, drivers unharmed, cars unharmed, both make it to Q3.

That's the issue again?


Why does anything Hamilton does elicit such reaction on these boards????? Is there something i should know or missing?

#45 Scudetto

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:48

The issue is Lewis will start in front of Alonso, so his fans won't like that.


Why won't Lewis' fans like the fact he's starting in front of Alonso?

#46 tifosi

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:48

The issue is Lewis will start in front of Alonso, so his fans won't like that.



Why would anyone care where Lewis starts????

#47 robefc

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:48

What was Lewis doing on that side of the track then? Why wasn't he on the racing line? You don't slow down and go off the line for no reason, it's a clear sign to the drivers behind them that he's letting them through. I really can't explain it in any other way. Hamilton sends out mixed signals, that led to contact. It's not a racing situation, it's qualifying. There is no fight. It's Hamilton slowing down off the line, so that whoever is behind, can stick to the racing line and not lose time.


I thought he was letting through someone on a hot lap?

If I'm on an outlap and see a guy in front of me on an out lap let a guy on a hot lap through why would I think he was also letting me through?

Although frankly I'm only sure hamilton was on an out lap, not felipe nor that the other guy was on a hot lap.

I'm all hot and in lapped out now!

#48 bauss

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:48

this is what happened, they were both on outlaps...Hamilton moved over to let someone on a hotlap thru, then wanted to continue on his way when Massa came charging thru....

race incident, but that wasnt a necc. thing for Massa to do

#49 Seanspeed

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:48

If you want to go slowly, then proper etiquette is to stay out of the way of people who want to go faster. Lewis clearly got off the racing line as if to say, "Faster guys, go through", but then he just put himself right on the apex of a corner when a faster car was coming by. I dont know what Lewis was thinking. Maybe he just wasn't expecting Massa to be going quickly at the time, I dont know.....? :well:

Edited by Seanspeed, 13 November 2010 - 14:49.


#50 Coral

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 14:49

Why does anything Hamilton does elicit such reaction on these boards????? Is there something i should know or missing?


Yes, I have noticed that too! No matter what happens, in any race, we end up talking about Lewis Hamilton. As in this latest incident which is a total storm in a teacup. I think it says it all about the impact that Lewis has had on F1.