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Youngest World Champion team principal?


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#1 HistoryFan

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 16:36

Vettel is the youngest World Champion in history in F1, but isn't Horner also the youngest team principal who get World Champion?

And who was it before?

A top-10 list?

Edited by HistoryFan, 14 November 2010 - 16:36.


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#2 2F-001

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 17:04

Without doing any checking I'd have thought Colin Chapman was younger in '63 than Horner is now - but I've no idea if that is any kind of record. Over to the statistitians...

#3 RStock

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 17:10

How old was Luca when Lauda won?

#4 kayemod

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 17:20

Without doing any checking I'd have thought Colin Chapman was younger in '63 than Horner is now...


35.


#5 2F-001

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 17:21

Wikipedia suggests di Montezemolo would have been 28.
I think Patrick Head would have been younger than Horner too.
(How do we define Team Principal? However we do it, I don't think Horner is anything like a contender for this particular 'title')

Edited by 2F-001, 14 November 2010 - 17:26.


#6 Vitesse2

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 17:22

How old was Luca when Lauda won?

28. Chunky was 35 when Jimmy won in '63. But can we really count Luca as team principal when Enzo was still alive?

Edited by Vitesse2, 14 November 2010 - 17:22.


#7 2F-001

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 17:25

In that case, can we count Horner as team principal when the Red Bull owner (or even Helmut Marko) are involved?

Actually, Horner is a bit younger than I thought - several sources say he'll be 37 this week.

#8 Stephen W

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 17:37

Vettel is the youngest World Champion in history in F1, but isn't Horner also the youngest team principal who get World Champion?

And who was it before?

A top-10 list?


Does anyone care?

:well:

#9 kayemod

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 17:38

Does anyone care?

:well:


No.


#10 Doug Nye

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 18:53

If you're good enough, you are old enough...

DCN

#11 elansprint72

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 21:27

Does anyone care?

:well:


Not me.

#12 Mallory Dan

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 12:59

Does anyone care?

:well:


Good point Steve, I agree. And when did a "Team Manager" become a "Team Principal". Was it when Headmasters became Prinicpals, though I think they're now called "Headteachers"

#13 David McKinney

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 15:30

In my book, the team principal is the owner. The other bloke's the team manager

#14 Hamish Robson

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 15:41

Christian H does a great job, and he's certainly good, if a little corporate-speak, on telly. You can be sure, though, that his strings are being pulled from above.

#15 f1steveuk

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 16:07

I used to organise some of the interiews for the TV coverage of Formula One, and in the days of Niki Lauda being at Jaguar, he freely admited, "team principle, crap, figure head". I used to love sending the pit lane guys to go and interview Niki, you could see all the channel directors trembling and my comm's would light up with "Lauda? Why? You do realise this is live don't you?". And I did, but Niki would always tell it like it was, and was never very PC, bless him!

#16 Formula Once

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 16:20

As for those who come here only to wonder who cares and to those who don't; please show a bit more respect for the topic's poster; many, many other topics here many people don't care about, but leave it to the people who do to discuss them rather than posting pointless replies.

#17 Formula Once

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 16:29

Back on topic, Red Bull Racing is obviously owned by Mr. Mateschitz and Horner basically runs it. In that role, younger people have managed teams to the F1 world (drivers) title, most notably di Montezemolo at 28 (in 1975). I guess that after Colin Chapman at 35 in 1963, the youngest team owners to have won the world championship must have been Ron Dennis at 37,in 1984, then Frank Williams at 38 in 1980, Jack Brabham at 40 in 1966, Teddy Mayer at 41 in 1976, Briatore at 44 in 1994, Ken Tyrrell at 45 in 1969, Bernie at 51 in 1981.

#18 HistoryFan

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 16:52

Thank you @FormulOnce.
Of course that thread is a little bit open as the name team principal is open with Ferrari has not a principal as Williams did and so on.

#19 Sharman

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 17:01

Maybe, having just gone the the usual 3 ring circus that is the F1 Season, we should ask which team has principles!

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#20 Tim Murray

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 17:20

... Teddy Mayer at 41 in 1976 ...

Would it not be 39 in 1974 for Mayer?

#21 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 17:26

Christian Horner is 37? Where's the raised eyebrow smiley.

#22 Vitesse2

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 17:34

Christian Horner is 37?

According to Wikipedia anyway. Birthday tomorrow, as it happens. Although I'm sure Ted Kravitz said on Friday during one of the FP sessions that it was today and that he was going to be 39 ...

Edited by Vitesse2, 15 November 2010 - 17:37.


#23 Formula Once

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 17:46

Would it not be 39 in 1974 for Mayer?


Of course, yes!

#24 Formula Once

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 17:47

According to Wikipedia anyway. Birthday tomorrow, as it happens. Although I'm sure Ted Kravitz said on Friday during one of the FP sessions that it was today and that he was going to be 39 ...


He wouldnt have been the first driver to have changed his age to be a bit younger...

#25 Tim Murray

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 17:51

Birthday tomorrow, as it happens.

This tallies with ReWind's comprehensive birthday listings (see here or here) so he was still 36 when his team won the championships (unless, as Formula Once says, he might possibly be lying :lol: ).

Edited by Tim Murray, 15 November 2010 - 18:00.


#26 Formula Once

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 17:58

This tallies with ReWind's comprehensive birthday listings (see here or here) so he was still 36 when his team won the championships (unless, as Formula Once says, he's lying :lol: ).


I am not saying that he is lying.

#27 Tim Murray

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 18:00

Apologies - post edited. :blush:

Edited by Tim Murray, 15 November 2010 - 18:01.


#28 Vitesse2

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 18:07

Well, if he has manipulated his birth date, he did it at least six years ago - I've found a report by Kevin Garside in the Daily Telegraph from September 2004: "Christian Horner, 30".

#29 Formula Once

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 18:13

Well, if he has manipulated his birth date, he did it at least six years ago - I've found a report by Kevin Garside in the Daily Telegraph from September 2004: "Christian Horner, 30".


If he did, he probably did it when still racing. But maybe he didn't at all.

#30 David McKinney

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 18:15

Back on topic, Red Bull Racing is obviously owned by Mr. Mateschitz and Horner basically runs it. In that role, younger people have managed teams to the F1 world (drivers) title, most notably di Montezemolo at 28 (in 1975). I guess that after Colin Chapman at 35 in 1963, the youngest team owners to have won the world championship must have been Ron Dennis at 37,in 1984, then Frank Williams at 38 in 1980, Jack Brabham at 40 in 1966, Teddy Mayer at 41 in 1976, Briatore at 44 in 1994, Ken Tyrrell at 45 in 1969, Bernie at 51 in 1981.

Not to ,mention Romolo Tavoni 32 in 1956 (and 34 in 1958), John Cooper 36 in 1959 (and 37 in 1960), Eraldo Sculati 38 in 1956 and Tony Rudd 39 in 1962. Just to keep it to the under 40s (and including some pre-Constructors' Championship years)


#31 RStock

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 22:39

So, depending on the meaning of "Team Principle", Luca is the youngest yet? Wouldn't Sir Frank count starting out in 1969? He would have been what, 27?

Edited by REDARMYSOJA, 15 November 2010 - 22:39.


#32 David McKinney

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 22:47

What world championship did he win in 1969 again?

#33 Formula Once

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 22:47

So, depending on the meaning of "Team Principle", Luca is the youngest yet? Wouldn't Sir Frank count starting out in 1969? He would have been what, 27?


But this is about the youngest having won a world title.

#34 RStock

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 23:09

But this is about the youngest having won a world title.


Oh yeah, I forgot that part. :o

#35 Thundersport

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 00:02

I agree with Ross; I would be very surprised if Horner is only 37!

#36 john aston

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 07:17

Am about as keen on the term 'team principal' as I am on GP driver's engineers' offering gratuitous advice to their man on pit/car radio.Mind you as I have read elsewhere the words'Fernando , Petrov is quicker than you ' would not have been out of place this last weekend...

#37 Formula Once

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 07:21

...the term 'team principal' ...


Wasnt it invented by Ron Dennis/McLaren?

#38 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 08:13

I don't think there's anything wrong with the term or the position. At the Formula Ford or F3 level the team manager is often the top of the tree. When you get into F1, MotoGP, NASCAR, WRC, etc, et al; you need someone to run the corporate entity. Sponsorship, media, all the bits that come before and after the race cars being unleashed.

#39 Geoff E

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 10:47

The birth of Christian Paul Horner was registered in the Oldham district in the last quarter of 1972. If his birthday is today, it will be his 38th.

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#40 David McKinney

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 12:57

... you need someone to run the corporate entity. Sponsorship, media, all the bits that come before and after the race cars being unleashed.

...but not to manage the driver and mechanics (sorry, engineers)?


#41 Allan Lupton

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 13:05

Am about as keen on the term 'team principal' as I am on GP driver's engineers' offering gratuitous advice to their man on pit/car radio.Mind you as I have read elsewhere the words'Fernando , Petrov is quicker than you ' would not have been out of place this last weekend...

And I am pretty fed-up with the mechanics being referred to as engineers.
I freely admit that when I'm up to my elbows in bits of dismantled car I can recognise that I've undertaken a job for a mechanic (which I'm not) rather than an Engineer (which I am).
Back to the point, I agree with Doug("if you are good enough, you are old enough") that it's whether you can win that matters, not how old/young you are.

Edited by Allan Lupton, 16 November 2010 - 13:07.


#42 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 13:57

I would think the chief mechanic and chief engineer would be worrying about that primarily, with it feeding into the team manager and/or Adrian Newey. Horner, like Whitmarsh or Domenical and the rest will know most of what's going on, but they are team principals not team managers.

#43 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 13:58

And I am pretty fed-up with the mechanics being referred to as engineers.


The guys you hear on the radios actually are the engineers. They aren't mechanics.


#44 arttidesco

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 14:23

Is a team principle anything more than the dude on the pit crew nominated to talk to the press and wear crocodile skin boots to unimportant meetings where not very much of consequence gets decided who's major function is to find excuses for not winning and reporting his 'findings' to the boss every Monday morning ?

From what I gather employees like Stanley, 70's di Montezolo, Briatore and naughties era Todt were very much on a lower rung of a chain of corporate command to the likes of Cooper, Chapman, Brabham, Tyrrell, Mayer, little Bernie, Williams, Dennis and even 2009 era Mr Brawn who were pretty much running benevolent dictatorships and answerable to no one apart from the sponsors dollar.

Either way Congrats and Happy Birthday Christian !

I wonder if he is up for the Red Bull employee of the month award having played a part in winning his team two world titles ?

#45 Allan Lupton

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 14:57

The guys you hear on the radios actually are the engineers. They aren't mechanics.

I know that in US-speak "engineer" is a man who drove a train, but in England we prefer it to mean someone with formal qualifications as an engineer.
There seems to be a position called "(somebody)'s race engineer" but we don't hear much about what qualifications they have that entitles them to that description.
There was someone called Nigel Stepney who is often referred to as "ex-Ferrari Engineer", but whose formal training was as a mechanic.


#46 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 15:22

Nigel Stepney was the chief mechanic of Ferrari. Rob Smedley(and others) are most certainly engineers.

#47 Kpy

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 16:25

I know that in US-speak "engineer" is a man who drove a train, but in England we prefer it to mean someone with formal qualifications as an engineer.
There seems to be a position called "(somebody)'s race engineer" but we don't hear much about what qualifications they have that entitles them to that description.
There was someone called Nigel Stepney who is often referred to as "ex-Ferrari Engineer", but whose formal training was as a mechanic.

Admittedly Nigel Stepney, who was a mechanic, is sometimes referred to by the news media, who don't know any better, as an "ex-Ferrari Engineer". However, the guys whose job title in a GP team is "race engineer" have degrees in engineering, often to Masters or PhD level.
Rob Smedley, for instance, has a Masters degree in Mathematics and Mechanical Engineering, and has a long CV in motorsport engineering.

Edited by Kpy, 16 November 2010 - 16:25.


#48 Allan Lupton

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 17:41

Admittedly Nigel Stepney, who was a mechanic, is sometimes referred to by the news media, who don't know any better, as an "ex-Ferrari Engineer". However, the guys whose job title in a GP team is "race engineer" have degrees in engineering, often to Masters or PhD level.
Rob Smedley, for instance, has a Masters degree in Mathematics and Mechanical Engineering, and has a long CV in motorsport engineering.

Thanks for that clarification: I know little of what goes on now, having been pretty well put off it years ago so what I hear the commentators say and what is reported in such newspapers as I buy is not subject to any filter, so to speak.
Smedley is at Ferrari, I take it.

#49 D-Type

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 18:11

"Team Principal" this can only mean the man at the top, ie owner or owners of a team or in the case of a public limited company, the Managing Director. Anybody else in the management structure, whatever their title, eg racing managers, team managers, technical manager, technical director, etc, are employees so cannot, by definition, be a team principal. The management structure of teams varies so the relative standing of various team members will vary from team to team. Enzo Ferrari, Colin Chapman Ken Tyrrell and Charlie Cooper were team principals but Harvey Postlethwaite, Favio Briatore, Colin Horner et al were not as they were all employees.

On the engineer or mechanic question, I think this is an opportune time to point out that Owen Maddocks was a Chartered Engineer, an AMIMechE. He was therefore better qualified as an Engineer than Colin Chapman who merely held a degree and never progressed to become a chartered engineer by obtaining his AMIStructE.

Alf Francis and Tony Robinson were mechanics, and damn good ones. Although they designed racing cars they were not engineers.



#50 john aston

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 18:12

Is a team principle anything more than the dude on the pit crew nominated to talk to the press and wear crocodile skin boots to unimportant meetings where not very much of consequence gets decided who's major function is to find excuses for not winning and reporting his 'findings' to the boss every Monday morning ?

From what I gather employees like Stanley, 70's di Montezolo, Briatore and naughties era Todt were very much on a lower rung of a chain of corporate command to the likes of Cooper, Chapman, Brabham, Tyrrell, Mayer, little Bernie, Williams, Dennis and even 2009 era Mr Brawn who were pretty much running benevolent dictatorships and answerable to no one apart from the sponsors dollar.

Either way Congrats and Happy Birthday Christian !

I wonder if he is up for the Red Bull employee of the month award having played a part in winning his team two world titles ?

Errmm- don't think that ACBC felt he was answerable to anybody actually , let alone the sponsor's dollar.And the same could be said of most of the names you quote from pre corporate (ughh) Eff one. And in answer to your first question- yes- quite a lot.