8 replies to this topic

[Seanmac27]

Now accepting that Mark Webber failed to win the World Cahmpionship essentially because he made 2 racing mistakes, error of judgement in Valencia, and a poor driving error in Korea but nerves seemed to really get the better of him and qualified poorly then, it seemed, drove to finish rather than to win the championship, it was admitted earlier in the year that the RB6 followed other cars badly so it was set up to struggle to drive through the field. To me at least their are some similarities to Carlos Reutemann at Las Vegas in 1981 if only that they both finish 8th. Reutemann also could and should have put the 1981 championship beyond reach before he, like Webber got to the final round. I know Carlos was considered a lot more moody than Webber. Any thoughts

[Obster]

Seanmac-funny you should mention this...I felt EXACTLY the same way at the end of the last race in each of these seasons.
Carlos was dominating at the end of his year-really on top of his game-iirc he had finished some astonishing run of races(for that time)in the points. Then at Vegas, the Williams performed the same way the Bulls did last weekend-one car ran away and hid and the other was a turkey.
On both occasions-for me-the wrong car won.
Put down to Carlos being psyched out? We still don't know, for sure.

[Seebar]

Seanmac-funny you should mention this...I felt EXACTLY the same way at the end of the last race in each of these seasons.
Carlos was dominating at the end of his year-really on top of his game-iirc he had finished some astonishing run of races(for that time)in the points. Then at Vegas, the Williams performed the same way the Bulls did last weekend-one car ran away and hid and the other was a turkey.
On both occasions-for me-the wrong car won.
Put down to Carlos being psyched out? We still don't know, for sure.

Wouldn't say Reutemann was dominating the end of the '81 season. He'd scored 34 points from the first 5 races (these 5 being the end of that run of races between Zolder '80 and '81), but he scored only 15 points in the last 10 races (less than what any of the rest of the top 7 championship finishers took from those races).

He did score a 2nd in Silverstone and a 3rd at Monza, but was probably the slowest of the top drivers in those races. He took podiums in the first 5 races on merit (opinion on his Rio win is divided of course), but for whatever reason couldn't maintain that form in the last races.

The only real error I remember Reutemann making was trying to outbrake Laffite from way too far behind into Tarzan for 4th place at Tarzan (with more than 50 laps remaining). Perhaps comparable to Webber's spin in Korea.

Perhaps comparable to Reutemann fading away at Vegas is Webber's fighting spirit at Abu Dhabi. I sat watching and wondering why he didn't even look like trying to keep close to Alonso. Then again, I don't know how the atmosphere and the cars were at Williams in '81 and Red Bull last weekend.

[Formula Once]

There are similarities in that at the time it was claimed by some that Williams was in favour of its other driver.

I think, though, that 1981 was different in that, unlike the Williams, which was good but not dominant, Red Bull had the fastest car most of the time and both drivers if not the team must have felt they should have had the championship wrapped up before Abu Dhabi.

I agree, however, that in the end, like Carlos, Webber looked like a man affected by the pressure quite badly.

[cpbell]

Perhaps comparable to Reutemann fading away at Vegas is Webber's fighting spirit at Abu Dhabi. I sat watching and wondering why he didn't even look like trying to keep close to Alonso. Then again, I don't know how the atmosphere and the cars were at Williams in '81 and Red Bull last weekend.

I too was astonished by his apparent lack of fight.

[Juan Mac Mahon]

Me too!
But, being argentine and in my mid 40’s, maybe this wasn’t strange after all.
IMHO, there is the wrongly consolidated idea that Reutemann lost this 81 Championship at Las Vegas because of his “lack of fight” or something around his moody character when the fact is that, moody or not, his Williams worked really bad that Sunday. Remember: he started on pole position and ended 8th, one lap behind his teammate. C’mon guys, this cannot be only because a “mental issue”!!!
The fact is that after making the pole time he had a “close encounter” with Piquet’s Brabham damaging the car’s front suspensión. I don’t remember if he swap chassis or what, but the thing was that the “new” car goes awfully wrong. He cannot have the Jones’s car for obvious reasons and that was it.
I don’t believe either that Webber’s problems at Abu Dhabi was something related with his personality. I’m convinced that something goes wrong enough on his saturday’s setup that putted him on a starting position where he cannot fight for the championship whatsoever …
A shame.

[arttidesco]

Mark and Carlos are / were both 2nd drivers and as such I wonder if either of them stood a chance at lifting the title. Battling team management must be akin to having teeth extracted. Look at the whole shoddy business of nose cones at Silverstone, what's the point of giving a 100 % when you get treated like a ten year old by those allegedly in control, that just has to plant doubt in ones mind and doubt is a lap down when it's time to put your chips on the table.

[scheivlak]

Mark and Carlos are / were both 2nd drivers and as such I wonder if either of them stood a chance at lifting the title. Battling team management must be akin to having teeth extracted. Look at the whole shoddy business of nose cones at Silverstone, what's the point of giving a 100 % when you get treated like a ten year old by those allegedly in control, that just has to plant doubt in ones mind and doubt is a lap down when it's time to put your chips on the table.

That said, Mark won convincingly at Silverstone and it's quite possible that he wouldn't be as sharp and strong that day if not for that front wing saga.

Mark is often at his best when the whole world seems to conspire against him and is quite able to drop the ball when he feels weight of the team on his shoulders, like in Korea and Abu Dhabi.

[arttidesco]

That said, Mark won convincingly at Silverstone and it's quite possible that he wouldn't be as sharp and strong that day if not for that front wing saga.

Mark is often at his best when the whole world seems to conspire against him and is quite able to drop the ball when he feels weight of the team on his shoulders, like in Korea and Abu Dhabi.

I guess anger can carry you only so far, win at Silverstone, but on it's own it is not enough to sustain won trough a whole championship.