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How to fix the Yas Marina circuit


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#251 One

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 12:27

Seriously, wave mouth, Lustigson

This is much better.

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Edited by One, 09 November 2011 - 12:27.


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#252 Atreiu

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 13:04

Honestly, it seems unecessaringly complicated.
And where would they overtake? The bends before the corners make it more difficult unless there a monumental speed advantage, like turn 1 at China and the current Bus Stop at Spa, and the run to the hairpin seems short.

#253 midgrid

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 13:04

Run it backwards this year, just to see if it makes any difference.

#254 StefK

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 13:15

Is i just me or are the FIA crapping their pants that Abu Dhabi is going to be another snoozefest? Activation zones are before turn 7 and between 8 and 9.

I can see the headlines already.... "60 overtakes at Abu Dhabi... world's greatest circuit!"

#255 lustigson

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 13:20

Is i just me or are the FIA crapping their pants that Abu Dhabi is going to be another snoozefest? Activation zones are before turn 7 and between 8 and 9.

I can see the headlines already.... "60 overtakes at Abu Dhabi... world's greatest circuit!"

Well, I believe that Ecclestone and FOM are very much aware of the criticism that Abu Dhabi received last year. And I reckon, too, that everything will be done to prevent that from happening again.

First and foremost, the Pirelli tyres should make quite a bit of difference, and secondly, the double DRS zone ánd double DRS detection points should help a lot, too. However, they're no guarantee for unfathomably good races, considering Valencia, Korea and India.

#256 StefK

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 13:26

agreed, the fact that Charlie as representative of the FIA is going on record as saying, in as many words, "its going to be a thriller!" seems a bit wrong to me.

FIA should not be acting as ringmaster and promoter.

#257 One

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 13:27

Honestly, it seems unecessaringly complicated.
And where would they overtake? The bends before the corners make it more difficult unless there a monumental speed advantage, like turn 1 at China and the current Bus Stop at Spa, and the run to the hairpin seems short.


Will you just name one track please where you think, or know, that the point you mentioned above is arranged well? That will be a great hint. My plan was built on accumulation of ideas, counting from the last year. See posts.

#258 Atreiu

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 14:09

Well, Istambul isn't overly complicated and works fine. The very high tire degradation and overly effective DRS zone just made it too much this year, but even back in 2010 it was a thrilling race. Other GPs there have been good as well.

Tearing down and rebuilding half the circuit at Abu Dhabi is out of the question. It would probably cost as much as a new circuit and it would be a huge admission that they messed up big time when creating a track which purpose was to make a hotel and Marina look nice. If they ever get to modifying it, I'd be in favour of other simpler solutions.

1 - Instead of the chincane-hairpin pair before the first back straight, simply place a hairpin at the chincane's location turning to the straight. That would make the new hairpin a better overtaking spot and it would also force the defending pilot into picking a line that will either defend himself into the hairpin and compromise corner exit or allow him to be faster down the long back straight. Run-off could be placed over the patch of the circuit no longer used and the existing grandstand woldn't have to be touched.
2 - Make the chincane at the end of the first back straight faster, like the turns 1 and 2 at Albert Park. It would reduce the slingshot effect into the next straight and still remain a heavy breaking zone. Drivers defending themselves into the new chincane would face the same dilema when chosing their line.
3 - At last, eliminate the triple chincane after the second back straight and make it a normal slow turn to the left.

Everything would remain in place, no tearing down required, defending would become a more difficult task regardless of DRS, the circuit loses nothing of its character as a huge modern wonder...

Edited by Atreiu, 09 November 2011 - 14:11.


#259 One

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 14:14

1. There are lots and lots of complains made also for Turky. see more threads. Do you have convincing answers for all that? I dare not to list them up. it is too long. To start with, too little amount of people attends the event as it is boring.

2. You are just making the track faster, which is the opposing aims that are given from back like 10 years. Formula One goes too quick, so quick that Aero effect to become more dominant. I do not think your idea has answer for that.

3. About complication and tiring down. That is what you say, but based on NO study or vague assumption. This kind of big talks takes us to nowhere, because what you need is your ego confirmed.



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#260 King Six

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 14:36

So the mooted changes weren't done. They are going to wait and see if DRS makes it less shit.



http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/96027

They never were going to. What happened at the last race in 2010 is arguably the sole reason DRS exists anyway, the other being the invention of the F-duct. This circuit is why DRS exists, if it doesn't work here then maybe they will change it, but I doubt it. The organisers clearly don't give a shit about the racing, infact the whole of the UAE you get an impression they don't actually give a shit about anything, they just want it to all look good.

#261 Atreiu

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 14:42

You're making it personal. I simply gave suggestions.

The thread isn't about Turkey.

If slower meant more overtaking Monaco and Hungaroring would be kings. But neither does faster, witness the hard time some guys have at Monza year after year. And you still missed the point completely, which was to make defending less straight forward and, hopefully, force some drivers into taking tough decisions regarding corner entry and exit without lots or tearing down, rebuilding and creating whole new loops and corners.

Of course it's no study, the is the Atlas BB, not a meeting in Tilke's office. Where did you think you were? Yeah, ego confirmed. I just need a big figure to read the BB, show the suggestions I made to the promoters/whoever and get the changes done!

Duh.

#262 Alx09

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 14:43

They never were going to. What happened at the last race in 2010 is arguably the sole reason DRS exists anyway, the other being the invention of the F-duct. This circuit is why DRS exists, if it doesn't work here then maybe they will change it, but I doubt it. The organisers clearly don't give a shit about the racing, infact the whole of the UAE you get an impression they don't actually give a shit about anything, they just want it to all look good.

+1. I'm sure it would hurt their "pride" to do adjustments to the track, which is to admit failure.

Imagine the track they COULD have made with that kind of money. Perhaps asking some racing drivers would've been a good idea.

Edited by Alx09, 09 November 2011 - 14:44.


#263 August

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 14:48

How to fix Abu Dhabi?

Has this been mentioned?

Posted Image


Was mentioned already last year, and that might be the best option. But to create something different and better might need demolishing pit building, grandstands, roads, and even the hotel. And that would be too costly if they can have a race without those modifications. I think changing the direction, and some modifications caused by it, would be the best option.

Is i just me or are the FIA crapping their pants that Abu Dhabi is going to be another snoozefest? Activation zones are before turn 7 and between 8 and 9.

I can see the headlines already.... "60 overtakes at Abu Dhabi... world's greatest circuit!"


Those are obviously the detection points, check this post.

http://forums.autosp...a...t&p=5382528

#264 One

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 16:45

You're making it personal. I simply gave suggestions.

The thread isn't about Turkey.

If slower meant more overtaking Monaco and Hungaroring would be kings. But neither does faster, witness the hard time some guys have at Monza year after year. And you still missed the point completely, which was to make defending less straight forward and, hopefully, force some drivers into taking tough decisions regarding corner entry and exit without lots or tearing down, rebuilding and creating whole new loops and corners.

Of course it's no study, the is the Atlas BB, not a meeting in Tilke's office. Where did you think you were? Yeah, ego confirmed. I just need a big figure to read the BB, show the suggestions I made to the promoters/whoever and get the changes done!

Duh.


I C.

So .. why then maken an effort to post? :confused:

for the sake of being there?


#265 One

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 16:50

+1. I'm sure it would hurt their "pride" to do adjustments to the track, which is to admit failure.

Imagine the track they COULD have made with that kind of money. Perhaps asking some racing drivers would've been a good idea.


I am not Sure about this total failure rating tho.

TO me Yas is a great track. The race starts with daylight and ending in dark is a awesome feature. It is a high speed track where cars scream like mad. A lot of great features like exciting Home straight and Grand Stand and so on. Teams complain because teams want always more to give to us fans and to their sponsors... Guys like us are very hungry.

So changing track is not an failure. It is a great gesture that owner wants to give us more.

#266 Tsarwash

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 16:56

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I know that somebody else has already done this joke, but it's good enough to repeat.

#267 August

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 20:24

AFAIK the only corner that would stop a MotoGP race would be the hairpin.

MotoGp could run the layout GP2 Asia used without too much trouble.

Posted Image


I'd say the hairpin with the chicane wouldn't be a problem for bikes. For me the hotel complex seems to be the problem for MotoGP. There are corners with small runoffs where riders might hit the barriers and even find themselves on the racing line after hitting the barriers.

And there isn't a 12-meter verge at T8. That 12-m verge rule came after Kato's accident.

Edited by August, 09 November 2011 - 20:26.


#268 MonzaF1

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 20:57

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/88322

Whitmarsh doesn't like it, Petrov says passing is impossible (which he used to his advantage this year, of course).

Here is the track plan...

Posted Image

What should be done?

Firstly I'd suggest straightening out the long straights between T7/8 and T10/11. As it stands the cars natural line is across the middle and it restricts the space to make a move. I believe they can do this by just adjusting the track area rather than demolishing any hotels!

T7 is a heavy traction zone and creates a big gap between the cars. I don't believe there is the space to open it out due to the feature grandstand, but they could but a high-speed kink in a few hundred yards later, in the vein of Ascari at Monza. It would still leave a long straight, and the cars would have got over their traction issues.

The street-grid section and first sector I would leave alone, I quite like the demands they put on the rhythm of the driver.


Let the desert sands cover it and f1 never to return - sounds good to me.


#269 MonzaF1

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 20:59

How to fix Abu Dhabi?

Has this been mentioned?

Posted Image


:up: :up:

#270 Alfisti

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 21:28

Can we not just draw a straight line from turn 11 to 19? It's just too fiddly, same with Bahrain, same with a few other Tilke circuits. Too long and too fiddly.

#271 Bunchies

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 23:45

1. There are lots and lots of complains made also for Turky. see more threads. Do you have convincing answers for all that? I dare not to list them up. it is too long. To start with, too little amount of people attends the event as it is boring.


Almost all of those complaints are about the atmosphere, about how nobody goes because it's not promoted and located in the middle of nowhere. You would be hard pressed to find many legitimate complaints about the track layout itself and the racing it has produced.

The loss of Istanbul Park is a shame, and this cannot be denied, given the caliber of the circuit when compared to Tilke's others.

#272 Baddoer

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 12:48

Seriously, wave mouth, Lustigson

This is much better.

Posted Image

Looks great but too small runoff in first corner and "Spoon"

#273 One

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 13:40

Looks great but too small runoff in first corner and "Spoon"


How great to have your positive comment on my proposal. I dear not to modify now 'cause these changes is now clear as you say. I certainly agree with you. and I think it is obvious to all.


Almost all of those complaints are about the atmosphere, about how nobody goes because it's not promoted and located in the middle of nowhere. You would be hard pressed to find many legitimate complaints about the track layout itself and the racing it has produced.

The loss of Istanbul Park is a shame, and this cannot be denied, given the caliber of the circuit when compared to Tilke's others.



But the GP racing happened always in such environment, remote conditions: Spa, moza, Silverstone... All of them WAS middle of nowhere and now surrounded by sort of commodities, but when it is started it was not. TO start off, there WAS enthusiasts and believe who promoted the event, joined forces by car companies etc, that is how GP Grew. On the contrary in Turky, however you from Europe being enthusiastic about the place, the locals seems to abandon the idea and the place, spending time and money in other sporting activities. They Love Cars but not the formula one, and as an architect, meaning including client and local politicians, might have known what factor promote the GP there. Korea is the same of those, for which Tilke is to be blamed for an empty stand, as the over taking being impossible.


Terrible only to blame track and its design while everyone neglecting ther own motivation for more aggressive racing.

I certainly see discrepancy, certainly conflict, certainly the atitude fro fans being too fussy messy about complaining and from the team leaders, laziness to blame track devoid of lack of true interest for exciting races to tell their drivers to just race. Webber-Vettel battle of 2010 was one of the most memorable of the last decade, Schumacher domination of Ferrari Era was the worst, in terms of racing on track.




#274 One

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 09:40

Seriously, Lustigson

This is much better.

Posted Image


I wonder if this can be made for Cyber Track racing? What kind of file does one need to make one for simulator for PC, PS3, Xbox...?

#275 jee

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 13:33

Pirelli + DRS

#276 Snic

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 15:11

Cant decide whether DRS was a good thing or not... But yes :) DRS and Pirrelli is the universal band-aid!

#277 Kubiccia

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 15:12

Answering the thread's question, throw a bomb and start from zero.



#278 F1ultimate

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 15:48

Today's race was by much more entertaining than last year's. However the dependency on two very long consecutive DRS zones along with KERS to generate excitement doesn't extinguish the worries and opinions people hold about the circuits.

I'd put my hand up and say that the Marina and scenery is only second to Monaco. It's a breath taking circuit with that hotel, marina and vibrant striped run off areas. But the track needs to be redesigned. Relying on DRS and KERS is not really bad.

#279 Risil

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 16:02

I'd put my hand up and say that the Marina and scenery is only second to Monaco. It's a breath taking circuit with that hotel, marina and vibrant striped run off areas. But the track needs to be redesigned. Relying on DRS and KERS is not really bad.


I assume you mean in F1. What about Monza or Spa?

For my money the most beautiful place to watch a motor race is Mugello. But there are some things even the cash value of 9% of the world's oil reserves can't buy you, and that includes sculpting a race circuit out of a valley in the Apennines.

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#280 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 16:16

Most impressive setting?

Posted Image

#281 TURU

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 17:09

Most impressive setting?

Posted Image


This is how it would look after you nuked it. A nice, water-filled crater with track going round it.

#282 Kristian

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 18:14

Given they had something like an $800m budget, I'm amazned they came up with such an awful circuit. I remember Tilke did an artile for F1 Racing a few years ago and he designed a circuit usiing the best corners in the world, and his budget was $500m. Why why why did they end up with this horrible thing? I was watching Star TV commentary and all they could talk about was how amazing the changing colours of the hotel were... it was that bad!

#283 g1n

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 18:43

Most impressive setting?

Posted Image


what track is that!?

#284 F1ultimate

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 18:44

Keith at F1 fanatic said it best. Today we did not see overtaking, what we saw was passing, like cars do on the motorway.


#285 chdphd

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 19:18

what track is that!?

Potrero de los Funes, as used by the GT1 World Championship and TC 2000 touring cars.

#286 August

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 16:31

I’m afraid Yas Marina won’t be modified as long as we have DRS. DRS had the desired effect, we saw at least passing, if not overtaking. But if DRS would be dropped off, then they might modify Yas Marina. However, modifying would be difficult considering the existing buildings and grandstands, as well as the roads around the circuit.

#287 F1ultimate

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 19:08

Has the circuit resurrected itself from F1's bin of poor track designs or does it still exhibit fundamental flaws in layout?

Posted Image

#288 Risil

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 19:26

Same case as Valencia. Irrational drivers make their own entertainment. :up:

Edited by Risil, 04 November 2012 - 19:26.


#289 Disgrace

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 19:32

It's still an awful circuit. Putting GP2 drivers around it provides some entertainment, if not quality.

#290 Jimisgod

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 23:47

It was good because about 6 cars damaged themselves on lap 1 and went to the rear along with Vettel, so it was fast cars passing slow ones. Also, the 2 SC periods mucked up strategies so teams were on the back foot and everything got closed up twice. And maybe the time of day made tyres more interesting, but it has never been like that before.

It was "good" in the same way Korea 2010 was good, everyone kept on hitting each other and the championship was on the line. I suppose the track beats India because drivers could actually follow rather than the field having about 20 second gaps between every car after 5 laps.

#291 Skinnyguy

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 23:51

It´s not bad with current double DRS zone. Overtaking was hard, but far from impossible, even between top cars. Without DRS, it´s a borefest.