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Was the Red Bull RB6 much faster than we thought?


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#151 Birelman

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 16:07

And this is exactly the type of attitude that drives people to put Fernando and his fans down when they're down. The need to bring up this thread to put down the new Champion as "just above average" and testing times regardless of conditions is conclusive evidence of it :rolleyes:

Keep up the good work, all the more fuel to keep reminding you guys of Ferrari's and Alonso's failure :up:

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#152 flyer121

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 16:09

Next year will be the year that Vettel proves if he's a champion or not, because I expect Ferrari and McLaren to come back a lot stronger for next year. I happen to think if Vettel and Webber's car advantage is nullified, then they're in for a tough year.


Of course they are -

But I think you are in a win win situation anyway.
Next year again - If Vettel wins , you will still have the same excuse that RB7 is faster ..
If he loses , then you will be vindicated ...
And I am guessing that you will not cite the car as the reason for Hamilton or Alonso's good performance ..

BTW - everytime Alonso or Hamilton won the WDC they had the best car by a mile & a half that year.

Edited by flyer121, 18 November 2010 - 16:10.


#153 Cenotaph

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 16:14

I'm pretty sure the RB6 is actually 5 seconds per lap faster than the rest of the field. It's just that Vettel, Webber and Ricciardo are all soooooooooooooooo terrible that it makes it seems like the car is close to others.

#154 topical

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 16:15

BTW - everytime Alonso or Hamilton won the WDC they had the best car by a mile & a half that year.


Yeah, that's why the Renault in 05 was slower than the McLaren from the start of the European season onwards and in 2006 slower than the Ferrari from mid-season onwards, and why Hamilton's McLaren was at best a match for the '08 Ferrari (after all, Massa nearly won the title in it, and we know he's not a top line driver...) :rolleyes:



#155 flyer121

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 16:25

I'm pretty sure the RB6 is actually 5 seconds per lap faster than the rest of the field. It's just that Vettel, Webber and Ricciardo are all soooooooooooooooo terrible that it makes it seems like the car is close to others.


LOL
Well that's what people want to believe when their favorite greats are getting their behinds handed to them on a plate !

Edited by flyer121, 18 November 2010 - 16:25.


#156 flyer121

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 16:27

Yeah, that's why the Renault in 05 was slower than the McLaren from the start of the European season onwards and in 2006 slower than the Ferrari from mid-season onwards, and why Hamilton's McLaren was at best a match for the '08 Ferrari (after all, Massa nearly won the title in it, and we know he's not a top line driver...) :rolleyes:


Yes, Alonso won in 2005 only because Kimi's faster car kept blowing up from the lead on last laps ...

and yes in 2008 , the Ferrari wasn't the best car by any stretch of imagination !

#157 Birelman

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 16:27

I'm pretty sure the RB6 is actually 5 seconds per lap faster than the rest of the field. It's just that Vettel, Webber and Ricciardo are all soooooooooooooooo terrible that it makes it seems like the car is close to others.

YOU, my friend, have no eye for racing talent. :down:

#158 Cenotaph

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 16:35

:lol:

#159 rog

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 16:46

I'd put Vettel in with Kubica and Rosberg in that group just behind the 'Big 3', Alonso, Hamilton and Button.


Sorry but Button is too slow.

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#160 chivdog

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 17:06

I'm pretty sure the RB6 is actually 5 seconds per lap faster than the rest of the field. It's just that Vettel, Webber and Ricciardo are all soooooooooooooooo terrible that it makes it seems like the car is close to others.


:rotfl: To take this thread's line of vacuous reasoning even further yes, it is possible that it is 5 seconds per lap faster, it is also possible that it is 10 seconds per lap faster it is even possible that it is 5 seconds per lap slower.. it is also possible that the sun might not come up tomorrow..

For what it is worth though, with very few mistakes made over the two days and with, what appears to be, consistent and sometimes quick* lap times being posted by most of the drivers, the majority of them look like pretty good exciting prospects. There are obviously some standouts.


* Lap times are unofficial, are for the use of the relevant teams only, represent laps that are not undertaken under race conditions, and as such no reliance should be placed upon them for any purpose whatsoever and you should not make any decision as to the speed of any particular car or the skill of any current or future driver based on such lap times.

Edited by chivdog, 18 November 2010 - 17:08.


#161 DanardiF1

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 17:28

Sorry but Button is too slow.


His World Championship would suggest otherwise...

#162 GhostR

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 17:35

His World Championship would suggest otherwise...

My person opinion: Button is excellent, and a match for the best drivers, when he has a good car underneath him. If he's happy in the car, he can be unbeatable.

As soon as he's not happy in the car, his performance drops away massively - much, much more than it does for, say, the likes of Hamilton, Alonso, Schumacher in his prime. We saw it last year (compare first half of the season with second half) and again this year. This factor precludes me from considering him a top-tier driver. He's damn good when the conditions are right, but too far off the pace when they aren't.

#163 yr

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 18:01

The thing is that we don't know what the teams are testing but we can assume. It is highly likely that most of these drivers(not the regular testers though) have been allowed some quick runs during this test.

Thus the comparison of relative pace.


Sam Bird: ""We were working on our programme and we were sticking to it," Bird told AUTOSPORT. "It was not about going gung-ho and setting the world alight; we had a target and I think we achieved what we wanted to."

But what does he know? Karlth from Autosport forum knows that all teams are running same program, all of them are running qual laps and all of them are running those qual laps at same time - I mean even in testing days conditions change throughout the day, so if we want to compare fastest times we need to assume they have been driven those fastest laps about same time of a day, no?

Also:

1.All first-timers behind F1 wheel are obviously equally ready to take car on limit in first few days when they get to drive f1, even though they know that if they waste the car by trying too hard they might have ended their career.

2. Its testing for 2011, not 2010. Does anybody know if any of teams had new parts inserted?

3. Red Bulls biggest advantage was a great pace on one lap, not pace over the race. Imagine if Red Bull wanted to maximise their forte in testing where they dont need to compromise their qual setup like they need to in GP weekends, they could use all strenghts of car to get a really fast lap in without needing to compromize it for being fast in tomorrows race too with same setup.

Edited by yr, 18 November 2010 - 18:08.


#164 Ricardo F1

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 18:19

You mean that totally illegal wing that was found to be completely legal by the FIA?;)

No the totally illegal one they had to spend the summer break changing completely to conform with the new flexing rules that the FIA tried to implement to stop them from cheating.

Edited by Ricardo F1, 18 November 2010 - 18:19.


#165 6string

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 19:30

No the totally illegal one they had to spend the summer break changing completely to conform with the new flexing rules that the FIA tried to implement to stop them from cheating.

You mean the one that flexed just as much at Suzuka, after the increased flex tests? Red Bull didn't change the wing in the slightest. It was able to pass new tests all along.

#166 6string

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 19:40

(Car(R1) + Driver(D1)) - (Car(F1) + Driver(D2)) = N1 (2010 season)
(Car(R2) + Driver(D3)) - (Car(F2) + Driver(D4)) = N2 (Young drivers test)
N2 >> N1

If Car(R1) - Car(R2) = Car(F1) - Car(F2) => Look at the drivers.


Poster(karlth) + argument(1) + retort(1) = load of shit
Poster(karlth) - argument(1) + argument(2) + retort(2) = load of shit

If argument(1) + argument(2) = load of shit => Look at the poster.


#167 velgajski1

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 20:23

You mean a RedBull designed by Adrian Newey? Yes that's his only chance.


It's really nice how some people constantly try to devalue achievements of all other drivers except their idols :wave:

#168 paulrobs

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 20:34

Excellent thread this one. Lots of well balanced and pursuasive discussion, debate and challenge with absolutely no sign of raised blood pressures or slagging someone else off. Awesome :)

Edited by paulrobs, 18 November 2010 - 20:34.


#169 BenettonB192

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 20:36

I just read an interview with Riciardo on a German motorsport website. This should clear things up a bit.

He said that if he actualy was 1.5 seconds faster then Seb he would have a F1 contract tomorrow. He said obviously the track was much better, even from day 1 to day 2 was a huge difference. And that for him it was more interesting to compare his data with Seb and Mark. Then they asked him where he learned something from that data and he said that the other two break much harder and with absolute confidence in the car. Something he still has to get used to. He also mentioned that Seb is very good in fast corners and that he tried on the second day to get there.

#170 ali.unal

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 20:36

Vettel as good as Senna, says Ascanelli

Scuderia Toro Rosso's technical director Giorgio Ascanelli, who oversaw new world champion Sebastian Vettel's first victory in Formula 1 - in the 2008 Italian Grand Prix at Monza - believes that the 23-year-old German has a similar level of ability to that of Ayrton Senna, according to this week's AUTOSPORT magazine.

Ascanelli, who worked with Senna during the late Brazilian's glory years at McLaren in the early 1990s, said that he knew Vettel was a special talent from the moment he began working with him.

"I am a very lucky man, because at the start of my career and now at the end I have been touched by perfection," said the Italian. "I said two years ago that Sebastian Vettel would be world champion and here we are.

"You never know how many championships he can win. To quote Ron Dennis, winning a championship is relatively easy - but being consistently at the top of your ability is bloody hard," he added.

"That's the difficult part, but I think Sebastian has got the will to do it. He's going to be a big competitor for a long time."

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/88396

#171 Bonaventura

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 20:41

Vettel as good as Senna, says Ascanelli


http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/88396

The next, next Senna

#172 BenettonB192

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 20:50

Honestly i find comparisons with Senna as if he was a god behind the steering wheel stupid. He was a excellent driver, with a lot of talent but also with flaws like any other excellent driver.
The name Senna only has become such a superlative after his dead. I like to distinguish between the legend Senna and the actual driver Senna.

I'm afraid if anyone actualy wants to be the next Senna he not just has to win championships he also has to die in his car. Not really something anyone should aim for.

#173 karlth

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 20:54

Honestly i find comparisons with Senna as if he was a god behind the steering wheel stupid. He was a excellent driver, with a lot of talent but also with flaws like any other excellent driver.
The name Senna only has become such a superlative after his dead.


You must be talking about Bruno because Ayrton Senna was respected as the probably the greatest qualifier and competitor Formula 1 had ever seen - during his lifetime.


#174 karlth

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 20:57

Poster(karlth) + argument(1) + retort(1) = load of shit
Poster(karlth) - argument(1) + argument(2) + retort(2) = load of shit

If argument(1) + argument(2) = load of shit => Look at the poster.


Firstly you really should take a chill pill and secondly take a primary course in algebra. :p

#175 BenettonB192

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 21:01

You must be talking about Bruno because Ayrton Senna was respected as the probably the greatest qualifier and competitor Formula 1 had ever seen - during his lifetime.


Yea by his fans. How's that different from the praise that Hamilton or Alonso get from their fans today?
Before his dead Senna was seen more in a similar light then Schumacher today. Great driver, massively talented but with some noticable character flaws and stains on his white vest. Only after his dead he was idolised in that fashion by almost anyone interested in F1.

#176 karlth

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 21:05

Sam Bird: ""We were working on our programme and we were sticking to it," Bird told AUTOSPORT. "It was not about going gung-ho and setting the world alight; we had a target and I think we achieved what we wanted to."

But what does he know?


Of course he went for quick times in a fast configuration, just look at his stints. He might not have gone for ultimate, super soft flyer but it was obvious he went for quick laps.


#177 Kelateboy

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 04:13

Poster(karlth) + argument(1) + retort(1) = load of shit
Poster(karlth) - argument(1) + argument(2) + retort(2) = load of shit

If argument(1) + argument(2) = load of shit => Look at the poster.


This is hilarious.... :rotfl:

#178 BigCHrome

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 05:40

There is no doubt that the RB6 was quite a bit faster than the rest of the field.

Were Vettel and Webber able to extract all the available speed? Probably not, at least the times when Webber was close to Vettel.

I don't rate him anywhere near the other good drivers, IMO he'd be slower than Massa in the same car.

#179 JosTheBoss

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 06:10

No the totally illegal one they had to spend the summer break changing completely to conform with the new flexing rules that the FIA tried to implement to stop them from cheating.


You've formed your bullshit opinion, and you're sticking to it. Good for you. :)

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#180 Muz Bee

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 03:23

Yea by his fans. How's that different from the praise that Hamilton or Alonso get from their fans today?
Before his dead Senna was seen more in a similar light then Schumacher today. Great driver, massively talented but with some noticable character flaws and stains on his white vest. Only after his dead he was idolised in that fashion by almost anyone interested in F1.

:up: My thoughts exactly.