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Photos of a Grand Prix icon - the Maserati 250F


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#201 Tim Murray

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 12:31

All this was discussed earlier in this thread.

Edited by Tim Murray, 03 December 2010 - 12:34.


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#202 Eric Dunsdon

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 12:41

Here is the photo I mentioned before:

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Vince H.

Vince. I'm sorry, I forgot to say thank you for posting the picture. An ace driver indeed!. :up:

#203 driverider

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 14:52

Barrie,
That is NOT a 'drift'!!!

Read Jenks book on the racing driver to get an explanation.

Regards,



Bauble - I dont know who you are or whether you have ever drifted a race car - but that is a pretty well executed drift by an outstanding driver

Bradbury thank you for the correction - it isof course Lodge - brain fade - been racing at oulton since 75 - should know better

But, given the position of the car in the corner, the forces on Salvadori and the shape of the wheels this is drifting as I know it





#204 driverider

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 14:56

Thank you Allan,
The Hawthorn shot is the perfect example, I had a copy of this cut from the Autocar on my bedroom wall. I have always thought it one of the greatest motor racing photos of all time.

Of course many of the younger set will assume that Klem was run over after taking the picture!!

elansprint, it is difficult to print pictures of the 250F without SOME discussion of the drivers technique or ability, but I do agree witht the thrust of your post. Topics often drift from the original start point and can slide into different areas, but we are powerless to stop it.

Regards,

Bob.



Exactly - this is a drift just like Salvadori - in a similar position aimed inside of the apex

#205 Bauble

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 18:04

Bauble - I dont know who you are or whether you have ever drifted a race car - but that is a pretty well executed drift by an outstanding driver

Bradbury thank you for the correction - it isof course Lodge - brain fade - been racing at oulton since 75 - should know better

But, given the position of the car in the corner, the forces on Salvadori and the shape of the wheels this is drifting as I know it


I suspect, in the best possible taste, that you are completely sideways on this matter of a drift. Roy's arms are all over the place his elbow is up in the air and the front wheels look to me to be turned inward towards the corner.

No I have never raced, so hate to appear a smart rrr's but I would bet the wife that is not drfiting. Compare with the Hawthorn picture and you can clearly see the difference.

Must go and lie down for a while.

Respectfully,

Bob.

#206 Rob Ryder

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 18:39

I thought there was a thread started about definition of a drift :rolleyes:

http://forums.autosp...howtopic=139579



#207 elansprint72

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 22:04

I thought there was a thread started about definition of a drift :rolleyes:

http://forums.autosp...howtopic=139579


Wasting your time Rob, this photo thread seems destined destined to drift despite a suggestion from the original poster that a new drift thread be started and the pre-existence of one or more threads on 250F drivers. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I sometimes long for the day when the creation of a thread comes complete with "Moderator" rights.  ;)

#208 Bauble

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 08:16

I sympathise totally with the views of the last two posts, and am the idiot who first introduced discord into this thread by challenging Barrie's definition of a 'drift'!

Clearly I cannot convince some deluded types that I am right so I will conceed defeat, and move on.

PS; I love a good argument.

Edited by Bauble, 06 December 2010 - 10:54.


#209 eldougo

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 08:32

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#210 Alan Cox

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 21:44

Some more from Barrie Hobkirk's collection
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2507 - Silverstone 1992
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2508 - Silverstone 1994
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2513 - Silverstone 1998
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2515 - Donington Collection 1994

#211 driverider

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 22:21

Some more from Barrie Hobkirk's collection
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2507 - Silverstone 1992
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2508 - Silverstone 1994
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2513 - Silverstone 1998
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2515 - Donington Collection 1994


and Tec Mec in foreground!

#212 Dutchy

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 12:59

At the risk of oprobium, and I'm aware it's not that simple, isn't 2507 the ex Sid Greene/Salavdori car? The car depicted above as 2507 is clearly another car

#213 Graham Gauld

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 13:32


Many of the photos shown are of 250Fs as they are today rather than in period. Herewith a couple photographed back then.

The first is the Scuderia Centro Sud car that Carroll Shelby raced at the British Grand Prix in 1958 (2522) behind it is the Centro Sud car for Gerino Gerini 2515

The other photo is of chassis 2511 driven by Gerino Gerini in the Italian GP with the semi-streamlined body.




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#214 Alan Cox

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 13:38

At the risk of oprobium, and I'm aware it's not that simple, isn't 2507 the ex Sid Greene/Salavdori car? The car depicted above as 2507 is clearly another car

From Messrs McKinney/Hobkirk's 250F tome records that the first car to carry chassis no. 2507 was returned from Gilby to the works in 1956 and was run by the works as 2523. It was rebodied and renumbered again as 2522 and sold into private ownership. The second Gilby car (currently owned by Klaus Edel) was given the number 2507 although their book refers to it as 2507B. No doubt David or Barrie will elucidate further.

PS Marvellous period pics, by the way, Graham. Thanks. Can we have some more, please?

#215 Tim Murray

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 13:57

So I take it that car 2507 as photographed by Barrie (and posted by Alan) is also car 2522 as photographed by Graham.

#216 Terry Walker

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 14:04

Stan Jones practicing in the 250F, Australian GP, Caversham, 1957. This was private practice a few days before the race, hence the lack of crowd. The picture, on a Kodachrome 64 slide, was taken by the late David Van Dal.

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#217 Barry Boor

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 15:49

Not trying to be funny but was Stan Jones heavy?

#218 fnqvmuch

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 16:13

Not trying to be funny but was Stan Jones heavy?

always thought that one seemed to be dragging its a at Albert Park, too ...

Edited by fnqvmuch, 10 December 2010 - 16:14.


#219 David McKinney

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 17:29

So I take it that car 2507 as photographed by Barrie (and posted by Alan) is also car 2522 as photographed by Graham.

Put simply - and it never is - yes

Graham's two Gerini shots (Silverstone and Monza) are of 2519

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#220 Graham Gauld

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 14:00

From Messrs McKinney/Hobkirk's 250F tome records that the first car to carry chassis no. 2507 was returned from Gilby to the works in 1956 and was run by the works as 2523. It was rebodied and renumbered again as 2522 and sold into private ownership. The second Gilby car (currently owned by Klaus Edel) was given the number 2507 although their book refers to it as 2507B. No doubt David or Barrie will elucidate further.

PS Marvellous period pics, by the way, Graham. Thanks. Can we have some more, please?



Thanks for that. Here is a shot I took in the factory of one of the 250Fs being built. No doubt David will shoot back with the chassis number, I haven't a clue as we never really thought about chassis numbers back then.
My book "Maserati Gauld Mine" will have more Maserati photos etc when published in 2012.

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#221 driverider

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 14:42

Thanks for that. Here is a shot I took in the factory of one of the 250Fs being built. No doubt David will shoot back with the chassis number, I haven't a clue as we never really thought about chassis numbers back then.
My book "Maserati Gauld Mine" will have more Maserati photos etc when published in 2012.

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Graham, put me on the list for the book!! would like to see more from the gauld mine¬

These photos are so important for the 'factual' record of 250F in the period

Your picture and chassis comment got me thinking - I wonder how many of the 250F around today still have their original chassis, engine, body?






#222 Barrie Hobkirk

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 16:10

Answer to that latest question is ...."It depends if you are buying or selling".

Seriously though, most do have their original chassis, some have parts of their original body work and a few have their original motors. Many motors now are resting confortably on shelves (for preservation sake) while the work is being done by Embrey or Hall recreations.

Graham's fabulous shots were really helpfull to me early on in my research.

His latest picture from the Factory is of chassis 2533 being constructed early in 1958 showing it's early short nose. A 300S beyond.

Cheers,
Barrie

#223 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 16:25

My book "Maserati Gauld Mine" will have more Maserati photos etc when published in 2012.

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Fascinating photo, Graham, and an echo of all the 'build' photos that I took years later. I wonder what has happened to all James Allingtons photographs of cars under construction/dismantlement.

#224 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 16:56

Perhaps it IS time for a new 250F book ?

Great pictures Graham , looking forward to that book!

#225 Alan Cox

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 17:17

My book "Maserati Gauld Mine" will have more Maserati photos etc when published in 2012.

I'm sure we all appreciate you letting out a few photos in advance of publication, Graham.

#226 Graham Gauld

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 07:45

Perhaps it IS time for a new 250F book ?

Great pictures Graham , looking forward to that book!



Bjorn

My book is certainly not another book about the 250F I have faith and confidence in the fact that David McKinney and good old Barrie Hopkirk have probably produced the most accurate history of this car. Ok so there are obviously references to 250Fs but the book is more a melange of stories about Maseratis, Maserati drivers and Maserati people some of which might disappear when I loose my mortal coils. Remember I tend to write books about people and their stories.

#227 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 09:00

Graham and others : I have 4 books/booklets on the Maserati 250F. With the appearently continuence of pictures and info , I thought it might be time for a 5th and "definite" book ? Of the 4 I have , none are from Barry Hobkirk .

Regarding your Gold Mine I did not consider this as a 250F book , but just what you said , and looking forward to it.

#228 Alan Cox

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 09:51

Graham and others : I have 4 books/booklets on the Maserati 250F. With the appearently continuence of pictures and info , I thought it might be time for a 5th and "definite" book ? Of the 4 I have , none are from Barry Hobkirk .

Barrie was a major source of detail contained in David McKinney's book.

#229 arttidesco

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 10:44

Some more from Barrie Hobkirk's collection
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2507 - Silverstone 1992


Fab pics Alan, does anyone know if a 250F ever race in period with a trident badge in the grill or is that a 'Pebble Beach Spec' adornment ?

#230 Tim Murray

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 11:00

The trident in the grille appeared many times on the cars of 1954-55. Looking through David McK's book, I can't find any period photos of it on later versions - no doubt David and Barrie can provide chapter and verse.

Edited by Tim Murray, 12 December 2010 - 11:02.


#231 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 11:51

Alan , had another look , found the credit , sorry David and Barrie !

#232 elansprint72

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 20:49

Oulton Park Gold Cup meeting 1975.

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#233 Barry Boor

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 07:47

Strange! I had notification of a new post on this thread yet I see the last before this one was in December.

#234 Tim Murray

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 08:04

It might be that someone posted, then changed their mind and deleted it again. Strange things do happen here, though. I recently got a notification that a forum member whose user name was new to me had added me as a friend. On checking, I could find absolutely no record of him/her in the members' list. :confused:

#235 john medley

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 08:06

I merely want to know who is responsible for the mechanical preparation and tuning of the Peter Giddings 250F as pictured above. Check the colour of the pipes!!!

#236 wenoopy

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 10:41

Maserati 250F as rarely seen.

I'm not sure if this doesn't really belong in the "Bastardised Racing Cars" thread of 2 or 3 years ago. Chassis 2504 with Chevrolet V8 and central-seat body which originally came to New Zealand on the ex-Louis Rosier 4.5 litre Formula 1 Ferrari. Driven here by Rod Coppins at Ardmore, January 1962.

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Le Mans start, same meeting.

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1963 with slightly modified 1957-style 250F body. Coppins at Pukekohe March 30 1963.

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Sorry about picture quality, but B&Ws scanned from old prints as negatives long since destroyed as damaged. Colour slide just old!

Several 250Fs were raced in South America between 1958 and mid 1960's with Chevrolet engines. Do any photos exist of them?

Stu

#237 bradbury west

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 14:04

It might be that someone posted, then changed their mind and deleted it again. Strange things do happen here, though. I recently got a notification that a forum member whose user name was new to me had added me as a friend. On checking, I could find absolutely no record of him/her in the members' list. :confused:



I have just had a link sent telling me of a Tim Murray new post on the Chapman and the 3litre Formula thread. Nothing there, last post ages ago. Back to bewilderment
Roger Lund

#238 Tim Murray

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 15:19

Oh dear, sorry Roger (and anyone else similarly affected). I was trying to copy a quote from that thread for possible use elsewhere, but during the process I stupidly pressed 'submit' by mistake. I instantly deleted the post hoping no-one had noticed. I forgot about email notification. :blush:

Edited by Tim Murray, 30 April 2011 - 15:20.


#239 eldougo

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 09:31

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#240 eldougo

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 06:20

Strange! I had notification of a new post on this thread yet I see the last before this one was in December.


Am i missing something here Barry???? HOW do you get Notification of a new post ,is this some sort of setting we can apply or are you saying you just saw it on the first page when we click IN.

THANKS eldougo

#241 Barry Boor

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 06:34

Doug, click on HELP from the row of options near the top right of your page. The third one down offers you the option of "E-mail notification of new messages."

Click on it and you will get instructions to obtain the notification of new posts on a thread.

#242 bradbury west

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 10:27

Either that, or click on the Options box at the top right of the thread itself, which gives a dropdown box with button choices for notification options, immediate, delayed, etc, of new posts on that thread. It acts as a constant updater for any threads in which you are interested. I assumed also that if you contribute to a thread there is an automatic notification of any subsequent postings.
Roger Lund


#243 eldougo

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 11:44

Thanks for that info CHAPS i will try to get it going ASAP,however looking at the time it will be tomorrow for this bloke.

#244 sbrinley

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 14:33

Thanks for that info CHAPS i will try to get it going ASAP,however looking at the time it will be tomorrow for this bloke.


Anyone know what happened to George Weaver's 250F? He used to drive it in vintage race car laps (not a real race) at the Thompson circuit in Connecticut. He also had a straight-8 blown Maserati GP car in his barn. Had two Pitman arms, as the steering column was split.

#245 David McKinney

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 14:37

George Weaver had two (at least) 4CLTs and blown V8, but not a 250F, as far as I know

Phil Cade, who also had a V8 GP Maserati, did however have a 250F, which he crashed and kept in storage for many years, before it returned to Europe

#246 sbrinley

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 15:04

George Weaver had two (at least) 4CLTs and blown V8, but not a 250F, as far as I know

Phil Cade, who also had a V8 GP Maserati, did however have a 250F, which he crashed and kept in storage for many years, before it returned to Europe


I saw Weaver drive the 250F at Thompson--1960 as I recall. May not have been his. I don't recall the V8; only the 4CLT, the negine of which I think was more like two 4 cylinder engines end-to-end than a regular straight 8.

#247 David McKinney

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 17:13

Cade raced his 250F at Thompson in 1960. As he and Weaver seem to have been friends, he could possibly have lent the car, especially as you say it was a demo rather than a race. But a 250F would be a bit modern for a vintage event in 1960, wouldn't it? Especially as Cade was competing against modern FJ cars etc in libre racing at the time?

#248 sbrinley

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 19:43

Cade raced his 250F at Thompson in 1960. As he and Weaver seem to have been friends, he could possibly have lent the car, especially as you say it was a demo rather than a race. But a 250F would be a bit modern for a vintage event in 1960, wouldn't it? Especially as Cade was competing against modern FJ cars etc in libre racing at the time?


This makes sense. It may have been a "formula libre" event or just part of the tour around of the vintage cars--I never saw them race at any of the SCCA races I attended. They just did a few laps. I don't have my program any longer, so this is entirely from memory. It was still great to see one the best GP cars of the '50s. But Weaver's 4CLT was even more interesting to me as a teenager addicted to the sport.

#249 D-Type

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 20:11

I saw Weaver drive the 250F at Thompson--1960 as I recall. May not have been his. I don't recall the V8; only the 4CLT, the negine of which I think was more like two 4 cylinder engines end-to-end than a regular straight 8.

The 4CLT had 4 cylinders hence the designation. It was the way Maserati named their cars, eg the 8CTF had an 8 cylinder engine

#250 David McKinney

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 21:31

Phil Cade had an 8CL Maserati (two 4CL engines end to end) but he sold it long before 1960