Jump to content


Photo

Photos of a Grand Prix icon - the Maserati 250F


  • Please log in to reply
426 replies to this topic

#351 Patrick Fletcher

Patrick Fletcher
  • Member

  • 679 posts
  • Joined: February 04

Posted 10 September 2012 - 09:42

Sort of blows apart the understanding that we have in the northern hemisphere that all Antipodeans are exceedingly laid-back and happy to let you kill yourself if that's what you want to do.

I went to a considerable amount of trouble to get the correct brass finished extinguisher for an old NOTA that I had. They loved the colour!

Advertisement

#352 Lola5000

Lola5000
  • Member

  • 1,150 posts
  • Joined: August 08

Posted 10 September 2012 - 09:48

Stop it you guys..............I gave historics away about 6 years ago,have not been back to an event since.
The boys are keen for me to have a run at next years AGP historic demo..............lol your putting me off attending. :)

Edited by Lola5000, 10 September 2012 - 09:53.


#353 275 GTB-4

275 GTB-4
  • Member

  • 6,838 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 10 September 2012 - 10:17

Lovely story, beautifully told, Doug. Thanks for relating it. Sort of blows apart the understanding that we have in the northern hemisphere that all Antipodeans are exceedingly laid-back and happy to let you kill yourself if that's what you want to do.


Whilst the esteemed DCN may have vented here...and possibly burn't some CAMS bridges...of course, the vast majority of Antipodeans are exceedingly laid-back...we live in the luckiest/best country in the world (just ask any one of us!!) :wave:

As for happy to let you kill yourself if that's what you want to do....get yourself a copy of the original On the Beach (the one with Fred Upstairs and Anthony Perkins)

#354 275 GTB-4

275 GTB-4
  • Member

  • 6,838 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 10 September 2012 - 10:18

Stop it you guys..............I gave historics away about 6 years ago,have not been back to an event since.
The boys are keen for me to have a run at next years AGP historic demo..............lol your putting me off attending. :)


Please do Rob...true enthusiasts are always needed...you will love it :)

#355 remus

remus
  • Member

  • 68 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 10 September 2012 - 19:51

Posted Image
250F #2 by christopha 200, on Flickr

Posted Image
011.jpg by christopha 200, on Flickr

Posted Image
250F colour by christopha 200, on Flickr

Posted Image
250F drifting by christopha 200, on Flickr



#356 Doug Nye

Doug Nye
  • Member

  • 8,314 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 10 September 2012 - 21:30

Whilst the esteemed DCN may have vented here...and possibly burn't some CAMS bridges...of course, the vast majority of Antipodeans are exceedingly laid-back...we live in the luckiest/best country in the world (just ask any one of us!!) :wave:


We did 13 consecutive Classic Adelaide Rallies and during that period unfortunately experienced Australia's progressive apparent change from the wonderfully self-reliant, competitive yet easy-going and free-wheeling character I had grown to admire so much, into a much more regulation-bound, habitually back-covering, tall poppy-cropping, blame culture. To us it seemed as if this might explain where the British Leyland shop stewards had emigrated to after Mad Margaret had destroyed their power base here in the UK... Thank Goodness for all those proper Aussies who have kept the faith, and who remain as free-spirited and risk-ready as their honoured forefathers.

DCN

#357 Nick Wa

Nick Wa
  • Member

  • 148 posts
  • Joined: June 07

Posted 11 September 2012 - 16:15

Tony Merrick in a pushing role


Posted Image

Still pushing
Posted Image

#358 Alan Cox

Alan Cox
  • Member

  • 7,643 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 24 December 2012 - 22:42

Compliments of the Season to all - Christmas wrapping all done, so what better to occupy one's time than scanning a few 250F photos
14th September 1991 AMOC Oulton Park
Posted Image
2507 Robin Lodge
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
CM1, when owned by Pete Waterman and driven by, who else, Willie Green

#359 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,826 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 25 December 2012 - 08:49

Those pictures are like a Christmas present to me. Thank you, Alan. :clap:

Advertisement

#360 simonlewisbooks

simonlewisbooks
  • Member

  • 2,118 posts
  • Joined: January 02

Posted 26 December 2012 - 20:38

Here's a few to add -

Ascari 1954 British GP
Posted Image

Marimon alongside Marr's Connaught 1954 British GP
Posted Image

Shelby's car 1958 British GP
Posted Image

Bonnier's car 1958 British GP
Posted Image

Gregory'scar 1958 Daily Express?
Posted Image

So what's the story with this one , 1958 Daily Express?
Posted Image



#361 D-Type

D-Type
  • Member

  • 8,024 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 26 December 2012 - 23:04

So what's the story with this one , 1958 Daily Express?
Posted Image

As far as I know, the 250Fs at the International Trophy were
Scuderia Centro-Sud with 3 Masten Gregory in '2511' and 4 Wolfgang Seidel in '2522'
and private entrants: 10 Giorgio Scarlatti '2529', 11 Jo Bonnier '2524', 14 Bruce Halford '2504' and 12 Ken Kavanagh '2527'

As Centro-Sud were the only team there, the 'P' car must have been their team practice car. Possibly it was driven in practice by a hopeful who got a drive with them later in the season..

#362 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 26 December 2012 - 23:25

As far as I know, the 250Fs at the International Trophy were
Scuderia Centro-Sud with 3 Masten Gregory in '2511' and 4 Wolfgang Seidel in '2522'
and private entrants: 10 Giorgio Scarlatti '2529', 11 Jo Bonnier '2524', 14 Bruce Halford '2504' and 12 Ken Kavanagh '2527'

As Centro-Sud were the only team there, the 'P' car must have been their team practice car. Possibly it was driven in practice by a hopeful who got a drive with them later in the season..


The 'P' car was apparently the Centro-Sud spare, but didn't run


#363 Graham Gauld

Graham Gauld
  • Member

  • 1,121 posts
  • Joined: September 04

Posted 27 December 2012 - 07:25


After all those photos of replicas and modern historic racing I would like my old pal David McKinney to answer a question that hs puzzled me for over fifty years. I took this in the Maserati factory in September 1957. Can you tell me the chassis number ?

Posted Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

#364 simonlewisbooks

simonlewisbooks
  • Member

  • 2,118 posts
  • Joined: January 02

Posted 27 December 2012 - 10:00

Posted Image

Fantastic shot Graham! :up:

#365 simonlewisbooks

simonlewisbooks
  • Member

  • 2,118 posts
  • Joined: January 02

Posted 27 December 2012 - 10:04

As far as I know, the 250Fs at the International Trophy were
Scuderia Centro-Sud with 3 Masten Gregory in '2511' and 4 Wolfgang Seidel in '2522'
and private entrants: 10 Giorgio Scarlatti '2529', 11 Jo Bonnier '2524', 14 Bruce Halford '2504' and 12 Ken Kavanagh '2527'

As Centro-Sud were the only team there, the 'P' car must have been their team practice car. Possibly it was driven in practice by a hopeful who got a drive with them later in the season..


Cheers Duncan.. The Siedel car can be seen in the background on that shot, here's a better one...
Posted Image


#366 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:28

After all those photos of replicas and modern historic racing I would like my old pal David McKinney to answer a question that hs puzzled me for over fifty years. I took this in the Maserati factory in September 1957. Can you tell me the chassis number ?

Posted Image

No I can't, but I know a man who can :)

Watch this space


#367 Graham Gauld

Graham Gauld
  • Member

  • 1,121 posts
  • Joined: September 04

Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:45

No I can't, but I know a man who can :)

Watch this space


I think we both know the man who can. I just wanted to give you first bash at it.

GG

#368 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 27 December 2012 - 15:11

I sent him an email, but it's still only 7am where he is...

#369 bradbury west

bradbury west
  • Member

  • 4,569 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 27 December 2012 - 18:40

After all those photos of replicas and modern historic racing...... I took this in the Maserati factory in September 1957.

O/T I agree, but.....I hope my original order for the book is still valid, Graham.
Roger Lund


#370 Michael Ferner

Michael Ferner
  • Member

  • 2,153 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 27 December 2012 - 20:44

No I can't, but I know a man who can :)

Watch this space


I'm not the one David is thinking of, but I got a hunch it's 2501...

#371 Michael Ferner

Michael Ferner
  • Member

  • 2,153 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 27 December 2012 - 20:45

So what's the story with this one , 1958 Daily Express?
Posted Image


... and this should be 2519, right?

#372 Barrie Hobkirk

Barrie Hobkirk
  • Member

  • 128 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 27 December 2012 - 23:49

Apologies all. I was making rather merry the last few days.

Graham's excellent photograph of the 250F skeleton. This is Scuderia Centro-Sud's chassis 2507/23/22, or just 2522 on the identification plate. Note that the bodywork has been recently updated to a wider / flatter profile. The body work supporting hoop at the firewall can be seen modified at the top chassis rail. Behind is Ottorino Volonterio's chassis 2515. Photographed in late 1957, I believe.

The 250F's at the 1958 International Trophy meeting.
The "P" labeled car has been correctly identified as Scuderia Centro-Sud's chassis 2519. At this race it was bright red and was intended for Gerino Gerini but he did not arrive so the car remained a P, or practice car. Behind it is Centro-Sud's chassis 2502/11, or just 2511. Painted medium dark blue with two parallel top stripes. Raced by Masten Gregory. The silver car, at the same event, is also Scuderia Centro-Sud's. It is again chassis 2507/23/22, or just 2522 and was raced by Wolfgang Seidel.

Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Barrie

#373 Graham Gauld

Graham Gauld
  • Member

  • 1,121 posts
  • Joined: September 04

Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:48

Apologies all. I was making rather merry the last few days.

Graham's excellent photograph of the 250F skeleton. This is Scuderia Centro-Sud's chassis 2507/23/22, or just 2522 on the identification plate. Note that the bodywork has been recently updated to a wider / flatter profile. The body work supporting hoop at the firewall can be seen modified at the top chassis rail. Behind is Ottorino Volonterio's chassis 2515. Photographed in late 1957, I believe.

The 250F's at the 1958 International Trophy meeting.
The "P" labeled car has been correctly identified as Scuderia Centro-Sud's chassis 2519. At this race it was bright red and was intended for Gerino Gerini but he did not arrive so the car remained a P, or practice car. Behind it is Centro-Sud's chassis 2502/11, or just 2511. Painted medium dark blue with two parallel top stripes. Raced by Masten Gregory. The silver car, at the same event, is also Scuderia Centro-Sud's. It is again chassis 2507/23/22, or just 2522 and was raced by Wolfgang Seidel.

Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Barrie



Thanks for that Barrie. It means I took the photo about the 14th or 15th of September 1957 as it was around Monday of the week of the Grand Prix and Maserati were rebuilding the car for Horace Gould who had done a deal with Colin Davis for Colin to rent Horace's car for the race and Horace precumably rented the Centro Sud car for less money and so was able to make a bob or two. Thats how it worked in those days.. Hope you sare well and still at the same e mail address. Graham

#374 Alan Cox

Alan Cox
  • Member

  • 7,643 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 19 January 2013 - 18:29

A belated thanks for posting some period shots, Simon and Graham. Sadly, I was still in short trousers when the model was current!

#375 wolseley680

wolseley680
  • Member

  • 75 posts
  • Joined: August 12

Posted 19 January 2013 - 21:26

Sir Stirling at a Historic meeting at Sandown 1982.

Posted Image



#376 Alan Cox

Alan Cox
  • Member

  • 7,643 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 04 February 2013 - 11:27

Christie's Festival 1991
Posted Image
CM1 - 2507 - 2508
Posted Image
2508 - 2507 - CM1
Posted Image
John Harper (2516) feeds on the opposite lock in an attempt to outcorner Martin Stretton's Conaught.

#377 Alan Cox

Alan Cox
  • Member

  • 7,643 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 21 March 2013 - 18:48

Posted Image
Klaus Edel - ex-Gilby 2507B Chimay 2000

Edited by Alan Cox, 25 March 2013 - 20:58.


#378 arttidesco

arttidesco
  • Member

  • 5,633 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 21 March 2013 - 23:24

Posted Image
250F colour by christopha 200, on Flickr


Posted Image

JYS sans helmet in #2529 ('57 Nurburgring Winner ?) at the 2011 Goodwood Revival Fangio celebration.

#379 Dutchy

Dutchy
  • Member

  • 648 posts
  • Joined: March 06

Posted 22 March 2013 - 12:48

John Surtees on the inside (in 2524?)

Advertisement

#380 Alan Cox

Alan Cox
  • Member

  • 7,643 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 27 March 2013 - 20:47

Posted Image
Looking purposeful, #2528 returns to Monaco, scene of its 1957 victory, with Nigel Corner at the wheel in 2000

#381 Repco22

Repco22
  • Member

  • 707 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 28 March 2013 - 15:02

Thanks Alan. :up:

#382 Alan Cox

Alan Cox
  • Member

  • 7,643 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 28 March 2013 - 15:40

It's always a pleasure to post a picture of a 250F, Rod. Glad you liked it :)

#383 Bjorn Kjer

Bjorn Kjer
  • Member

  • 3,623 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 28 March 2013 - 16:42

And , it is always a pleasure to see any picture of a 250F , thanks.

#384 Alan Cox

Alan Cox
  • Member

  • 7,643 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:57

Great circuit, great car and a great driver:
Spa 1993 - Nigel Corner powers #2528 up the hill from Eau Rouge on the climb towards Les Combes
Posted Image

#385 Paolo

Paolo
  • Member

  • 1,673 posts
  • Joined: May 00

Posted 22 April 2013 - 21:00

Those side spoilers... I faintly remember they were not for downforce but for rain-debris protection. And as they appear have zero angle of attack, it could be correct.
But is it?
And, did they really make a difference at least in driver comfort? I have seen them on no other car.

#386 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 22 April 2013 - 21:05

Splash-guards, to stop rainwater being flung from the front tyres into the cockpit

#387 Dale Harvey

Dale Harvey
  • Member

  • 273 posts
  • Joined: January 04

Posted 22 April 2013 - 21:26

[And, did they really make a difference at least in driver comfort? I have seen them on no other car.[/quote]

Mercedes W196 had them.

Dale.

#388 Michael Ferner

Michael Ferner
  • Member

  • 2,153 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 23 April 2013 - 14:24

And Ferraris and Alfettas, too. This from memory, I'm sure they were quite common.

#389 Alan Cox

Alan Cox
  • Member

  • 7,643 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 23 April 2013 - 14:56

And Ferraris and Alfettas, too. This from memory, I'm sure they were quite common.

As Michael says: http://www.ultimatec...Alfetta-_1.html
http://www.ultimatec...i-500-F2_1.html

#390 Alan Cox

Alan Cox
  • Member

  • 7,643 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 19 June 2013 - 15:27

Cholmondeley Pageant of Power - 16th June 2013
Posted Image
Rob Hall driving Nick Mason's #2530
Posted Image
Rick Hall with Ian Duncan's #CM2

#391 arttidesco

arttidesco
  • Member

  • 5,633 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 19 June 2013 - 17:05

This from memory, I'm sure they were quite common.


Even the toothpaste tube Connaught :cool:


#392 arttidesco

arttidesco
  • Member

  • 5,633 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 19 June 2013 - 21:35

Posted Image

From the HGPCA test day at Silverstone earlier this year does any one know which one it is ?

#393 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 19 June 2013 - 21:49

Obviously 2526 ;)

#394 arttidesco

arttidesco
  • Member

  • 5,633 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 19 June 2013 - 22:12

Obviously 2526 ;)


Obviously :stoned:

Thanks David next time I'll know where to start  ;)

#395 Roger Clark

Roger Clark
  • Member

  • 6,005 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 20 June 2013 - 06:35

Cholmondeley Pageant of Power - 16th June 2013
Posted Image
Rob Hall driving Nick Mason's #2530
Posted Image
Rick Hall with Ian Duncan's #CM2

An interesting comparison. CM2 is, of course, a replica but 2530 has a - complicated? - history. Which has more original parts?

#396 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 20 June 2013 - 07:35

Interesting point, as you say. Both have post-period frames, but 2530/2532 has at least has some original tubes, and some of the original body. And I suspect CM2 might have fewer factory bits under the skin

#397 Roger Clark

Roger Clark
  • Member

  • 6,005 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 20 June 2013 - 08:58

i've just consulted a well known book on 250Fs which says that CM2 was"stripped of its original Maserati parts for a sports-car restoration but rebuilt with replica components."

Does that make it a replica of a replica?

#398 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 20 June 2013 - 09:41

I'd forgotten about that

Almost a complete separate car...

#399 Graham Clayton

Graham Clayton
  • Member

  • 1,072 posts
  • Joined: January 01

Posted 20 June 2013 - 22:23

Price Bira during the 1955 NZ Grand Prix at Ardmore on the 8th of January:

Posted Image

Source: http://www.maserati-...fieri06uuuu.htm

Advertisement

#400 Dave Williamson

Dave Williamson
  • New Member

  • 18 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 21 June 2013 - 01:09

Price Bira during the 1955 NZ Grand Prix at Ardmore on the 8th of January:

Posted Image

Source: http://www.maserati-...fieri06uuuu.htm

Hello Graham,
Actually you have made the same mistake as did... 10 years ago!

I -also- thought that this photo had been taken at Ardmore in Auckland NZ back in 1955, as the backgound really "fits the occasion" .....Wrong !

Bira used number 46 in the 1954 French Grand Prix at the Reims-Gueux circuit.[/b
He placed 4th one lap down.

However, in January 1955 Bira used the number [b]1
when he won the NZIGP at Ardmore in 1955.

I was there.. and was totally entranced by the look and sound of this car. The sound of the sweet firing blue and yellow car as it wailed down the long back straight...for 2hrs 40 mins.. is still pasted permanenlty into my auditory canals.
Bira's very close pre-race attention to a female fan is also legendary......

Scoll down 4 letters [on the Alfieri Maserati page you refer to] and his explanation is there. Then, by going right down to the bottom [on the same page] you will see my original -and quite erroneous- letter!

Incidentally... he really does a fantatic job with that huge site .

Cheers
DW