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Your Top Seven Drivers of 2010 - part IV (final standings)


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Poll: Your Top Seven Drivers (Top Three Drivers in new teams) and Top Three Teams in 2010 (427 member(s) have cast votes)

Please choose a total of seven among the drivers in established teams. In brackets the positions each driver got in our first, second and third poll.

  1. Sebastian Vettel (4/5/7) (317 votes [12.07%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.07%

  2. Fernando Alonso (3/7/2) (304 votes [11.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.58%

  3. Mark Webber (9/4/3) (256 votes [9.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.75%

  4. Lewis Hamilton (1/2/3) (333 votes [12.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.68%

  5. Jenson Button (5/3/6) (199 votes [7.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.58%

  6. Felipe Massa (7/16/13) (29 votes [1.10%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.10%

  7. Nico Rosberg (6/6/5) (288 votes [10.97%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.97%

  8. Robert Kubica (2/1/1) (336 votes [12.80%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.80%

  9. Michael Schumacher (8/18/15) (47 votes [1.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.79%

  10. Rubens Barrichello (13/11/8) (89 votes [3.39%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.39%

  11. Adrian Sutil (10/8/10) (41 votes [1.56%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.56%

  12. Kamui Kobayashi (-/9/9) (179 votes [6.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.82%

  13. Vitaly Petrov (12/13/16) (41 votes [1.56%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.56%

  14. Nico Hülkenberg (18/19/14) (65 votes [2.48%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.48%

  15. Vitantonio Liuzzi (15/17/20) (10 votes [0.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.38%

  16. Sebastien Buemi (18/20/14) (9 votes [0.34%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.34%

  17. Pedro de la Rosa (-/11/-) (14 votes [0.53%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.53%

  18. Nick Heidfeld (-/-/-) (23 votes [0.88%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.88%

  19. Jaime Alguersuari (11/12/12) (46 votes [1.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.75%

Please choose a total of three among the drivers in new teams

  1. Heikki Kovalainen (16/10/11) (373 votes [31.96%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.96%

  2. Jarno Trulli (17/-/19) (203 votes [17.40%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.40%

  3. Karun Chandhok (14/15/16) (148 votes [12.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.68%

  4. Bruno Senna (-/20/-) (47 votes [4.03%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.03%

  5. Lucas di Grassi (-/-/-) (20 votes [1.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.71%

  6. Timo Glock (-/-/-) (251 votes [21.51%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.51%

  7. Sakon Yamamoto (-/-/-) (19 votes [1.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.63%

  8. Christian Klien (-/-/-) (106 votes [9.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.08%

Please choose your three favourite teams this year - in brackets the positions each team got in our first, second and third poll.

  1. RBR-Renault (-/4/4) (212 votes [17.64%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.64%

  2. McLaren-Mercedes (-/1/2) (229 votes [19.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.05%

  3. Ferrari (-/6/3) (157 votes [13.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.06%

  4. Mercedes GP (-/8/7) (84 votes [6.99%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.99%

  5. Renault (-/2/1) (164 votes [13.64%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.64%

  6. Williams-Cosworth (-/5/5) (84 votes [6.99%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.99%

  7. Force India-Mercedes (-/7/7) (34 votes [2.83%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.83%

  8. BMW Sauber-Ferrari (-/9/9) (56 votes [4.66%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.66%

  9. STR-Ferrari (-/12/12) (14 votes [1.16%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.16%

  10. Lotus-Cosworth (-/3/6) (113 votes [9.40%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.40%

  11. HRT-Cosworth (-/10/11) (26 votes [2.16%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.16%

  12. Virgin-Cosworth (-/11/10) (29 votes [2.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.41%

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#251 aditya-now

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 13:15

I wonder whether kubica benefits from having a strong fan base but not as many 'haters' as vettel, alonso and hamilton.

I find it difficult to understand how those 4 aren't level pegging because I find it difficult to understand how anyone could put them outside the top 7 drivers.

Either bias is coming into play or some people have a depth of knowledge re: the relative performance of the different cars and how drivers have performed in them in each race that allows them to understand that, for example, 7 drivers performed better than hamilton this year.


I cannot imagine how anyone could put Hamilton or Alonso outside their "Top Seven Drivers", it involves surely a personal agenda.


It must be the haters that put the top drivers outside the seven. Looks like Kubica has less haters than others, however they seem to be very vocal on this BB :)
Seems to me the results of this poll are a measure of the bias here, rather than what it's title says.


I think every poll is biased, there is no way to obtain unbiased results. Rather, the poll itself is there to show the bias. Be aware of the fact that polls are an instrument of "social sciences" as opposed to "natural sciences", it seems to me that that differentiation is lost on some participants of the BB.

I love the fact you've created a poll and then comment on it as if there is a 'correct' list you are comparing it to.


Again, bias. There is no correct list I am comparing it to, I am comparing it to my own list, hence the comments. As this is a BB, everyone is entitled to give their comments, even the originator of the poll. That does not mean that his comments have any more meaning than anyone elses, in fact, they are as subjective as everyone elses.

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#252 robefc

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 13:45

Again, bias. There is no correct list I am comparing it to, I am comparing it to my own list, hence the comments. As this is a BB, everyone is entitled to give their comments, even the originator of the poll. That does not mean that his comments have any more meaning than anyone elses, in fact, they are as subjective as everyone elses.


:up:

It just came across badly (to me) but obviously I've mis-read your meaning/the importance you attached to your own comments, apologies.

#253 BenettonB192

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 13:48

Kubica regadred as the best 3rd time in a row :cool:


That's not what the poll asked or tells :rolleyes:

What it tells is that he's the top 7 driver with the least voices lost from hurr durr derp derp fanboys.

#254 korzeniow

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 14:07

That's not what the poll asked or tells :rolleyes:

What it tells is that he's the top 7 driver with the least voices lost from hurr durr derp derp fanboys.


yeah, but it seems that people voted their favourite drivers anyway. Some people think that Liuzzi and de la Rosa were top7 :lol:

and the results are numeral, instead of dividng them on yes/no categories (belongs to top7 / doesn't belong to top7)

all in all Kubica has number 1 by his name

:cool:


#255 flyer121

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 14:35

yeah, but it seems that people voted their favourite drivers anyway. Some people think that Liuzzi and de la Rosa were top7 :lol:

and the results are numeral, instead of dividng them on yes/no categories (belongs to top7 / doesn't belong to top7)

all in all Kubica has number 1 by his name

:cool:


Agree that whatever the poll asked , the results could only mean that more people think Kubica is the best driver, regardless if the poll was for one best driver or 7 best ones.
About fan boys skewing the results , they would do the same if the question was "who was the top 1/2 or 3 driver?"

That Kubica has the maximum votes is telling ...
... but equally it doesnt tell that he is the best driver of 2010.

#256 Asconte

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 17:03

On subject of Kubica, maybe voting results on this BB merely indicates what local demographics of present fan base is, because several factors on Kubica's performance and what kind of driver is he are clouding the issue.

A few observations;

1. Petrov is a novice and hardly good test for judging a teammate (re: Vettel v. Webber)
2. Renault was faster car than RBR. In a straight line, anyway; meaning - it was not a complete dud as some thought about it, and good results were possible with it.
3. Competition to Renault had far too many technical issues which lowered their scores.

Kubica scored consequently high, but let him first to repeat it next year, when field gets healthy, before we draw any further conclusions.

Edited by Asconte, 06 December 2010 - 17:04.


#257 zawisza

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 21:08

On subject of Kubica, maybe voting results on this BB merely indicates what local demographics of present fan base is, because several factors on Kubica's performance and what kind of driver is he are clouding the issue.

A few observations;

1. Petrov is a novice and hardly good test for judging a teammate (re: Vettel v. Webber)
2. Renault was faster car than RBR. In a straight line, anyway; meaning - it was not a complete dud as some thought about it, and good results were possible with it.
3. Competition to Renault had far too many technical issues which lowered their scores.

Kubica scored consequently high, but let him first to repeat it next year, when field gets healthy, before we draw any further conclusions.


I like specially the bold bit. You'd better check backmarkers' data http://www.fia.com/e...d-race-trap.pdf before suggesting the conclusion F1 is simply about straightline speed.

Edited by zawisza, 06 December 2010 - 21:15.


#258 TURU

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 21:10

On subject of Kubica, maybe voting results on this BB merely indicates what local demographics of present fan base is, because several factors on Kubica's performance and what kind of driver is he are clouding the issue.

A few observations;

1. Petrov is a novice and hardly good test for judging a teammate (re: Vettel v. Webber)
2. Renault was faster car than RBR. In a straight line, anyway; meaning - it was not a complete dud as some thought about it, and good results were possible with it.
3. Competition to Renault had far too many technical issues which lowered their scores.

Kubica scored consequently high, but let him first to repeat it next year, when field gets healthy, before we draw any further conclusions.


Ad1. Ok.

Ad2. :rotfl: . No, it wasn't 'a complete dud'. It was just as good as Kubica's results.

Ad3. I don't know what competition do you have in mind.

BTW, it's not like Kubica didn't have any 'technical issues' (Silverstone- possible top 5 finish; Suzuka- possible top 2 finish).

Wasn't the field healthy already this year? Some say it was the healthiest field of all time.


#259 Asconte

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 21:15

I like specially the bold bit. You'd better check backmarkers' data http://www.fia.com/e...d-race-trap.pdf before suggesting the conclusion F1 is about straightline speed.

I do not understand your response. I did say that Renault (car) was faster in a speed trap fo straightline speed, and your link merely confirms what I have stated; so, what's the problem? Renault in my opinion, at least in second part of the season, wasn't a bad car.

Nowhere in my post I suggested that F1 is all about a straightline speed. If that's what you deduced from my notes, then that would be incorrect.

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#260 Asconte

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 21:20

Ad1. Ok.

Ad2. :rotfl: . No, it wasn't 'a complete dud'. It was just as good as Kubica's results.

Ad3. I don't know what competition do you have in mind.

BTW, it's not like Kubica didn't have any 'technical issues' (Silverstone- possible top 5 finish; Suzuka- possible top 2 finish).

Wasn't the field healthy already this year? Some say it was the healthiest field of all time.


I would be not so quick to agree with you. What I heard all year around was, that this was one of the most competitive seasons if recent memory, and I do agree with that. From other perspective however I am not so sure. Wheather, tires, and reliability issues distorted final (scoring) results perhaps more than I would have liked to see.

I forgot - let Kubica drive next to someone like Webber, and we will be able to judge him perhaps better, including statement like he got all out of the car; right now I do not know about that. Maybe you are right with your guessing, maybe not.

Edited by Asconte, 06 December 2010 - 21:25.


#261 zawisza

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 21:29

I do not understand your response. I did say that Renault (car) was faster in a speed trap fo straightline speed, and your link merely confirms what I have stated; so, what's the problem? Renault in my opinion, at least in second part of the season, wasn't a bad car.

Nowhere in my post I suggested that F1 is all about a straightline speed. If that's what you deduced from my notes, then that would be incorrect.


My link confirms also that backmarkers had as good speed as Kubica's Renault or even better /Klien, Trulli/. So why we call them backmarkers?Because they always finished last ? Because good trap speed doesn't mean automatically you have a good car?

#262 TURU

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 21:29

I would be not so quick to agree with you. What I heard all year around was, that this was one of the most competitive seasons if recent memory, and I do agree with that. From other perspective however I am not so sure. Weather, tires, and reliability issues distorted final (scoring) results perhaps more than I would have liked to see.


Some call that distortion, others - spicing up the show. Don't forget that weather, tires and reliability issues have always been a problem for drivers. There has not been a single season when tires, weather or reliability issues didn't distort final results. I would dare to say that in the past results used to be distorted even more (just look at dnf ratios from the past) than now.

#263 Yorkie

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 21:33

No, he is regarded as Top 7 driver by most of the voters.
If someone made a poll for a top driver, I'm sure HAM/VET/ALO would win.

Thats the problem some tactical voting can occur

#264 midgrid

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 21:55

Red Bull goes up to second in the favourite teams poll - how many glory supporters are there in this forum? :p

#265 Asconte

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 21:55

Some call that distortion, others - spicing up the show. Don't forget that weather, tires and reliability issues have always been a problem for drivers. There has not been a single season when tires, weather or reliability issues didn't distort final results. I would dare to say that in the past results used to be distorted even more (just look at dnf ratios from the past) than now.


Spicing up the show for me is not something I come to track to watch. I want to see combination of driver's skills, advance machinery and superb strategy to get ahead. It's not in my way of likes to celebrate someone's win, because someone else had bad luck and qualified in detrimental wheather conditions, or his tires were poorly made, etc.

#266 aditya-now

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 12:46

On subject of Kubica, maybe voting results on this BB merely indicates what local demographics of present fan base is, because several factors on Kubica's performance and what kind of driver is he are clouding the issue.

A few observations;

1. Petrov is a novice and hardly good test for judging a teammate (re: Vettel v. Webber)
2. Renault was faster car than RBR. In a straight line, anyway; meaning - it was not a complete dud as some thought about it, and good results were possible with it.
3. Competition to Renault had far too many technical issues which lowered their scores.

Kubica scored consequently high, but let him first to repeat it next year, when field gets healthy, before we draw any further conclusions.


It´s quite interesting that Kubica wins out on Hamilton on a BB that is British-based. Either the Poles have a real strong presence here, or the British also appreciate Robert above all other drivers, or the international consensus has Kubica on top of everyone else.

I think that also Renault (Genii) is profiting from Kubica´s presence in the team - strong showing for the former works team. Wonder how that will continue with Lotus Renault versus Team Lotus. I cannot see how the Renault is faster than the RBR, in all honesty. But you are right, the car is surely better than many thought, and that clouds also the comparison with last year´s Renault.

People tend to think that Robert is a miracle driver, because in 2009 Alonso was not doing so well with the Renault. But remember what a crude, heavy car the 2009 Renault was, while the 2010 version was slick and tidy - Kubica, a driver who is not essentially faster than Nick Heidfeld profiting from a much better car in 2010.

Your third point is much overlooked: Renault had probably the most reliable cars of the upper half of the grid. :up:


#267 alecc

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 16:34

It´s quite interesting that Kubica wins out on Hamilton on a BB that is British-based. Either the Poles have a real strong presence here, or the British also appreciate Robert above all other drivers, or the international consensus has Kubica on top of everyone else.


The Poles have a strong presence here, but not so strong, I noticed that many not-Polish posters do appreciate his pace in 2010 :) Where before 2010 that were mainly Polish posters that supported him.

#268 MrMonaco

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 16:59

I think that also Renault (Genii) is profiting from Kubica´s presence in the team - strong showing for the former works team. Wonder how that will continue with Lotus Renault versus Team Lotus. I cannot see how the Renault is faster than the RBR, in all honesty. 1)But you are right, the car is surely better than many thought, and that clouds also the comparison with last year´s Renault.

2)Your third point is much overlooked: Renault had probably the most reliable cars of the upper half of the grid. :up:

1) It depends on what was your expectations from R30 and with what you are comparing it. Surely it was better than its predecessor but I think the only reasonable comparison from this years field could be made with MGP W01. It's unreasonable to compare it to F10 and MP4-25 just because it was faster on singular occasions, let alone RB6 :up: All in all it looks to me like for many people there are only two types of cars - dominant ones and dogs and it's a false approach.
2) I disagree - their nearest rival, Mercedes was more reliable, both Petrov and Kubica had DNFs from mechanical failures - Petrov in Bahrain, Malaysia, Monaco, Kubica at Silverstone (and a minor one in the end of Q3 in Belgium).

#269 undersquare

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 17:24

It´s quite interesting that Kubica wins out on Hamilton on a BB that is British-based. Either the Poles have a real strong presence here, or the British also appreciate Robert above all other drivers, or the international consensus has Kubica on top of everyone else.


At 395 votes Kubi is 4 votes ahead. 4! Not 40 or 400, so no need to get too excited and start drawing lots of conclusions :drunk: .

Plus as had been extensively discussed, it's purely an artefact of the poll design (which is not very good).

Though for sure he is highly rated, by Brits even :eek: :p

#270 jjcale

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 17:36

It´s quite interesting that Kubica wins out on Hamilton on a BB that is British-based.


Its a shame that we think this is even worth mentioning.... As for me, I dont car is RK is from Mars and LH is my childhood friend. IMO a good argument can be made that he did the best job last season.... why should anything else matter.


#271 MrMonaco

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 17:37

At 395 votes Kubi is 4 votes ahead. 4! Not 40 or 400, so no need to get too excited and start drawing lots of conclusions :drunk: .

Plus as had been extensively discussed, it's purely an artefact of the poll design (which is not very good).

Though for sure he is highly rated, by Brits even :eek: :p

Indeed the battle between Kubica and Hamilton in this poll is even more spectacular then for WDC itself this year  ;) There is always no more than 10 votes difference between them as they go head to head all the time. It just needs Murray Walker's comment on that :)

But still less than 400 is not enough votes. Poll after the season should have most votes so people, don't be shy and vote! :wave:

#272 Group B

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 18:22

Its a shame that we think this is even worth mentioning.... As for me, I dont car is RK is from Mars and LH is my childhood friend. IMO a good argument can be made that he did the best job last season.... why should anything else matter.

Whether nationality should matter isn't the point, the fact is it does matter. F1 may be less prone than some team sports, but nevertheless a lot of people still support drivers from their own country, and furthermore many (though not all) people will rate the driver they support more highly than if were totally impartial. As such aditya is right, although there may be an argument that some nationally-swayed Brits are avid Button supporters whereas Kubica is the only choice for the Poles who want to favour their own.

Personally I don't fall into the first category and try not to succomb to the second; I'm English, support a German, but don't consider him driver of the year.

It would be interesting to see a poll to find out a) how many people support their own countrymen, and b) do thet consider the driver they support to be the best.

#273 aditya-now

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 22:48

Indeed the battle between Kubica and Hamilton in this poll is even more spectacular then for WDC itself this year ;) There is always no more than 10 votes difference between them as they go head to head all the time. It just needs Murray Walker's comment on that :)

But still less than 400 is not enough votes. Poll after the season should have most votes so people, don't be shy and vote! :wave:


Good idea to have Murray Walker comment on the poll race! The poll race in which a Pole wins!! :drunk:

What amazes me is that Alonso is not higher up in the poll, as he is surely at least on level with Kubica and Hamilton. Also Vettel went only up in the poll since he won the WDC (that is, in part IV only). Otherwise we might have seen him languishing in P5 or P6....

Yep, I agree, we have to get the poll to 500 votes - it seems that off-season really less people are frequenting the BB.
Thanks for the support, MrMonaco! :up:


#274 jjcale

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 10:50

Whether nationality should matter isn't the point, the fact is it does matter.


Exactly...and its a shame it does matter IMO.

#275 aditya-now

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 18:35

Exactly...and its a shame it does matter IMO.


We have started to explore this question in the thread http://forums.autosp...w...0&start=100

I do not think it is a shame to like driver from your own country, as your country may have great sportsperson, so why should you not be allowed to like them. What is indeed mysterious is that here in the Top Seven Robert Kubica rules supreme over all other drivers, while in other relevant polls Kubica does not make it to the top.

That means, that Robert has definitely less enemies than all other drivers. Must be something in his cool and classy demeanor, not talking too much and not talking BS and delivering strongly on track, that makes most people around here inclined to include him in their Top Seven.


#276 jjcale

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 18:57

We have started to explore this question in the thread http://forums.autosp...w...0&start=100

I do not think it is a shame to like driver from your own country, as your country may have great sportsperson, so why should you not be allowed to like them. What is indeed mysterious is that here in the Top Seven Robert Kubica rules supreme over all other drivers, while in other relevant polls Kubica does not make it to the top.

That means, that Robert has definitely less enemies than all other drivers. Must be something in his cool and classy demeanor, not talking too much and not talking BS and delivering strongly on track, that makes most people around here inclined to include him in their Top Seven.


See my views in the other thread.. its a bit more sophisticated than whether its "a shame to like driver from your own country" ... which are your words, not mine.

Edited by jjcale, 17 December 2010 - 19:02.


#277 Yorkie

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 19:30

We have started to explore this question in the thread http://forums.autosp...w...0&start=100

I do not think it is a shame to like driver from your own country, as your country may have great sportsperson, so why should you not be allowed to like them. What is indeed mysterious is that here in the Top Seven Robert Kubica rules supreme over all other drivers, while in other relevant polls Kubica does not make it to the top.

That means, that Robert has definitely less enemies than all other drivers. Must be something in his cool and classy demeanor, not talking too much and not talking BS and delivering strongly on track, that makes most people around here inclined to include him in their Top Seven.

The poll ascertains who are the top 7 not who is the best, by rights the likes of Alonso, Lewis, Vettel and Kubica should all have the same amount of votes really so clearly some tactical voting has taken place

#278 MadYarpen

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 21:04

The poll ascertains who are the top 7 not who is the best, by rights the likes of Alonso, Lewis, Vettel and Kubica should all have the same amount of votes really so clearly some tactical voting has taken place


No, simply some of users do not consider all of drivers supposed to be top 7, as actual top 7. Some may think kobayashi did a better job than alonso for example, and thay have right to do so. Well, it would be boring if everyone thought the same, wouldn't it?

#279 MrMonaco

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 21:37

Good idea to have Murray Walker comment on the poll race! The poll race in which a Pole wins!! :drunk:

What amazes me is that Alonso is not higher up in the poll, as he is surely at least on level with Kubica and Hamilton. Also Vettel went only up in the poll since he won the WDC (that is, in part IV only). Otherwise we might have seen him languishing in P5 or P6....

Yep, I agree, we have to get the poll to 500 votes - it seems that off-season really less people are frequenting the BB.
Thanks for the support, MrMonaco! :up:

We just need to keep this thread fresh and always on the main page so more people could vote :wave: The more votes the better for the poll as it will be more accurate.

About Alonso and Vettel - I think there are a lot of haters that are just so blinded that they ignore plain facts in choosing top 7 drivers. Sure, few are debatable - for example who did better from - Barichello, Sutil, Kobayashi, Glock, Kovalainen, Alguersuari? But I think that Hamilton, Kubica, Rosberg, Vettel and Alonso must be considered in the top 7 reregardless of ones preferences. 2010 brought few intra-team issues for which people could dislike Alonso and Vettel and they didn't help themselves by making few vital errors on track.

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#280 Watkins74

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 22:11

That means, that Robert has definitely less enemies than all other drivers. Must be something in his cool and classy demeanor, not talking too much and not talking BS and delivering strongly on track, that makes most people around here inclined to include him in their Top Seven.

I like Kubica. Why? He never beats any of the drivers I like. :smoking:



#281 Asconte

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 00:13

I was actually curious if Alonso send a Cristmas gift to Kubica this year.

#282 aditya-now

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 01:53

I was actually curious if Alonso send a Cristmas gift to Kubica this year.


Did he do so in previous years?

If anything, Fernando won't send a X-mas present to Petrov, I would assume... :lol:


#283 Asconte

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 08:04

Darn; I knew it was one of those yellow cars. But then, maybe Sebastian did. :)

#284 Sarhan

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 09:19

I like Kubica. Why? He never beats any of the drivers I like. :smoking:


Its easy to cheer for the drivers in the fastest cars, smartpants :p




#285 aditya-now

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 01:28

Its easy to cheer for the drivers in the fastest cars, smartpants :p


Well, the poll shows otherwise. Vettel and Webber were in the fastest car this year, but people stayed loyal to Kubica and Hamilton throughout the year. I think Watkins74 just pointed to the fact that the reason why Kubica scores so highly is because he hasn´t seriously overshadowed any other star driver and thereby not attracted the scorn of the fans of said drivers. That´s why many people have him in their Top Seven.

Looking at http://forums.autosp...w...0047&st=100 question three, we find Lewis leading the "favourite driver" category by far, Robert 26 behind Hamilton but just one vote ahead of Fernando, then Vettel and Schumacher (same number of votes, 11 votes behind Alonso) and then Button.

So indeed being nobody´s enemy helped in scoring highly in the Top Seven question, but http://forums.autosp...w...0047&st=100 shows us that Robert Kubica has also the second largest fan base on the Atlas BB.

Edited by aditya-now, 19 December 2010 - 01:29.


#286 Sarhan

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 08:40

Well, the poll shows otherwise. Vettel and Webber were in the fastest car this year, but people stayed loyal to Kubica and Hamilton throughout the year. I think Watkins74 just pointed to the fact that the reason why Kubica scores so highly is because he hasn´t seriously overshadowed any other star driver and thereby not attracted the scorn of the fans of said drivers. That´s why many people have him in their Top Seven.

Looking at http://forums.autosp...w...0047&st=100 question three, we find Lewis leading the "favourite driver" category by far, Robert 26 behind Hamilton but just one vote ahead of Fernando, then Vettel and Schumacher (same number of votes, 11 votes behind Alonso) and then Button.

So indeed being nobody´s enemy helped in scoring highly in the Top Seven question, but http://forums.autosp...w...0047&st=100 shows us that Robert Kubica has also the second largest fan base on the Atlas BB.


Thats an accurate observation from this polls point of view. I was simply replying to that post though :)







#287 robefc

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 19:18

No, simply some of users do not consider all of drivers supposed to be top 7, as actual top 7. Some may think kobayashi did a better job than alonso for example, and thay have right to do so. Well, it would be boring if everyone thought the same, wouldn't it?


But they'd have to think 7 drivers did a better job and I find that unlikely for Fred, Lewis, seb and kubica.

Taking the 4 together you have to come up with 4 drivers that have done better than 1 of them assuming you keep the other 3.

Again I think it unlikely lots of people would think that, much more likely preferences came into play.

Edited by robefc, 19 December 2010 - 19:19.


#288 Asconte

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 22:18

Well, the poll shows otherwise. Vettel and Webber were in the fastest car this year, but people stayed loyal to Kubica and Hamilton throughout the year. I think Watkins74 just pointed to the fact that the reason why Kubica scores so highly is because he hasn´t seriously overshadowed any other star driver and thereby not attracted the scorn of the fans of said drivers. That´s why many people have him in their Top Seven.

Looking at http://forums.autosp...w...0047&st=100 question three, we find Lewis leading the "favourite driver" category by far, Robert 26 behind Hamilton but just one vote ahead of Fernando, then Vettel and Schumacher (same number of votes, 11 votes behind Alonso) and then Button.

So indeed being nobody´s enemy helped in scoring highly in the Top Seven question, but http://forums.autosp...w...0047&st=100 shows us that Robert Kubica has also the second largest fan base on the Atlas BB.

I do not wish to suggest that you should undertake that reasearch on Sebastian history at F1, there is a better way to spend your time, I guess, but I do watch him since MSch retired (first time), and on couple of BBs I have noticed that he is now in his third year badly undermined or underrated by various fan-groups, who do defend Alonso/Hamilton/Webber/Kubica - you name it - at all cost. Minor issues are being blown out of proportions, and statistics diluted by irrelevant data. Point here is, yes he had fast car and he won, yet Webber had a the same car from the same design office, and he did not win. There is a narrow margin of performance, which only insiders probably know how to evaluate correctly.

I cannot susbtantiate my opinion with data, but I think that MSch, Alonso, Vettel and perhaps even Hamilton are breed appart from the rest of them. Circumstances in individual races made some individual performances season of 2010 little fuzzy, but on a long run that's the picture I envision.

#289 aditya-now

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 01:08

I do not wish to suggest that you should undertake that reasearch on Sebastian history at F1, there is a better way to spend your time, I guess, but I do watch him since MSch retired (first time), and on couple of BBs I have noticed that he is now in his third year badly undermined or underrated by various fan-groups, who do defend Alonso/Hamilton/Webber/Kubica - you name it - at all cost. Minor issues are being blown out of proportions, and statistics diluted by irrelevant data. Point here is, yes he had fast car and he won, yet Webber had a the same car from the same design office, and he did not win. There is a narrow margin of performance, which only insiders probably know how to evaluate correctly.

I cannot susbtantiate my opinion with data, but I think that MSch, Alonso, Vettel and perhaps even Hamilton are breed appart from the rest of them. Circumstances in individual races made some individual performances season of 2010 little fuzzy, but on a long run that's the picture I envision.


It´s interesting that you mention it, but Hamilton, Kubica, Alonso and possibly even Webber seem to have the strongest fan base on this BB - Schumacher has a few loyal and vocal fans, but in decline, and Vettel, given that he is reigning WDC, after all, has definitely not such a broad fan base as his success would warrant.

Is it because he drives Red Bull and is Dr.Helmut Marko´s chosen child? Is it because he is so unassuming and fresh? Or is indeed "the finger" reason enough for people to not like him as vastly as Schumacher was liked when he had just won his first WDC?

Edited by aditya-now, 20 December 2010 - 01:11.


#290 bimmeric

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 02:25

It´s interesting that you mention it, but Hamilton, Kubica, Alonso and possibly even Webber seem to have the strongest fan base on this BB - Schumacher has a few loyal and vocal fans, but in decline, and Vettel, given that he is reigning WDC, after all, has definitely not such a broad fan base as his success would warrant.

Is it because he drives Red Bull and is Dr.Helmut Marko´s chosen child? Is it because he is so unassuming and fresh? Or is indeed "the finger" reason enough for people to not like him as vastly as Schumacher was liked when he had just won his first WDC?

Well for me it's because he's not exciting to watch. He's had a car capable of winning in his hands for 2 years now, and basically every time he's won a race he had the lead going into the first corner (exception Abu Dhabi 2009 where he inherited the lead after Hamilton's brake failure). He's VERY fast and there is no denying that, but he seriously has never won in an interesting way or in a race that looked particularly difficult. He's never passed anyone on track for a win or had to pull out a gap to make a pit strategy work, he's always won from being in 1st place after the first corner. Now I'm not saying it's not a skill to be able to dominate a weekend like Seb has shown a knack for, but I also want to see a driver take a win in a situation where it actually seems like a race not just a sunday drive in the fastest car and I have yet to see Vettel pull off a win when he actually had to fight for it.

Just my .02

Edited by bimmeric, 20 December 2010 - 02:26.


#291 Bonaventura

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 08:09

It´s interesting that you mention it, but Hamilton, Kubica, Alonso and possibly even Webber seem to have the strongest fan base on this BB - Schumacher has a few loyal and vocal fans, but in decline, and Vettel, given that he is reigning WDC, after all, has definitely not such a broad fan base as his success would warrant.

Is it because he drives Red Bull and is Dr.Helmut Marko´s chosen child? Is it because he is so unassuming and fresh? Or is indeed "the finger" reason enough for people to not like him as vastly as Schumacher was liked when he had just won his first WDC?

Vettel appears childish and immature
His preferential treatment from Marko & Matteschitz and his silly gestures doesn't help, too

Edited by Bonaventura, 20 December 2010 - 08:29.


#292 korzeniow

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 10:44

ESPNf1's best drivers list:

1. Sebastian Vettel
2. Fernando Alonso
3. Robert Kubica
4. Lewis Hamilton
5. Mark Webber
6. Nico Rosberg

Best rookie season - Kamui Kobayashi

On the ESPNF1 panel: Sir Stirling Moss (motor racing legend and ESPNF1 columnist), Sir Jackie Stewart (three-time world champion), Sir Frank Williams (nine-time constructors' champion), Gerard Lopez (RenaultF1's majority shareholder), Tonio Liuzzi (Force India race driver and ESPNF1 columnist), Sam Bird (GP2 race winner and ESPNF1 columnist), Mark Sutton (F1 photographer and ESPNF1 columnist), Martin Williamson (ESPN managing editor), Alex Livie (ESPN.co.uk editor), Laurence Edmondson (ESPNF1 deputy editor), Fraser Masefield (ESPNF1 contributor), Christian Isnard (CI Sport Agency, ESPNF1.fr editor), Daniel Bastien (ESPNF1.fr contributor), Jonathan Hungin (ESPN product manager), Deepak Gulati (ESPN content manager).

link: http://en.espnf1.com...tory/36480.html

#293 aditya-now

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 10:51

ESPNf1's best drivers list:

1. Sebastian Vettel
2. Fernando Alonso
3. Robert Kubica
4. Lewis Hamilton
5. Mark Webber
6. Nico Rosberg

Best rookie season - Kamui Kobayashi

On the ESPNF1 panel: Sir Stirling Moss (motor racing legend and ESPNF1 columnist), Sir Jackie Stewart (three-time world champion), Sir Frank Williams (nine-time constructors' champion), Gerard Lopez (RenaultF1's majority shareholder), Tonio Liuzzi (Force India race driver and ESPNF1 columnist), Sam Bird (GP2 race winner and ESPNF1 columnist), Mark Sutton (F1 photographer and ESPNF1 columnist), Martin Williamson (ESPN managing editor), Alex Livie (ESPN.co.uk editor), Laurence Edmondson (ESPNF1 deputy editor), Fraser Masefield (ESPNF1 contributor), Christian Isnard (CI Sport Agency, ESPNF1.fr editor), Daniel Bastien (ESPNF1.fr contributor), Jonathan Hungin (ESPN product manager), Deepak Gulati (ESPN content manager).

link: http://en.espnf1.com...tory/36480.html



Thanks for the link, ESPN has quite a good F1 section with a number of experts on their board.

Kobayashi really turns heads around, in the Favourite Drivers 2010 poll on this BB he is even second highest ranked favourite driver after Lewis Hamilton!

#294 Asconte

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 11:40

Well for me it's because he's not exciting to watch. He's had a car capable of winning in his hands for 2 years now, and basically every time he's won a race he had the lead going into the first corner (exception Abu Dhabi 2009 where he inherited the lead after Hamilton's brake failure). He's VERY fast and there is no denying that, but he seriously has never won in an interesting way or in a race that looked particularly difficult. He's never passed anyone on track for a win or had to pull out a gap to make a pit strategy work, he's always won from being in 1st place after the first corner. Now I'm not saying it's not a skill to be able to dominate a weekend like Seb has shown a knack for, but I also want to see a driver take a win in a situation where it actually seems like a race not just a sunday drive in the fastest car and I have yet to see Vettel pull off a win when he actually had to fight for it.

Just my .02

He has car winning WDC, and he has won WDC; what else are you missing? Last year DDD was a killer device that impacted quite a few, not only Seb. :well:

#295 Bonaventura

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 07:17

F1 fanatic list
Part three 8-4 :
http://www.f1fanatic...part-three-8-4/

8. Rubens Barricello
7. Jenson Button
6. Mark Webber
5. Nico Rosberg
4. Robert Kubica


Now part 4:
http://www.f1fanatic...-part-four-3-1/
3. Sebastian Vettel
2. Fernado Alonso
1. Lewis Hamilton

"This year’s world championship was remarkable in that drivers from three different teams had cars that were good enough to win races. Picking the best driver – the fastest, the best racer, the one who beat a strong team mate, the most dependable – is inevitably subjective. The margins between the very best are razor-thin."


Edited by Bonaventura, 22 December 2010 - 10:29.


#296 aditya-now

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 11:05

F1 fanatic list
Part three 8-4 :
http://www.f1fanatic...part-three-8-4/

8. Rubens Barricello
7. Jenson Button
6. Mark Webber
5. Nico Rosberg
4. Robert Kubica


Now part 4:
http://www.f1fanatic...-part-four-3-1/
3. Sebastian Vettel
2. Fernado Alonso
1. Lewis Hamilton

"This year’s world championship was remarkable in that drivers from three different teams had cars that were good enough to win races. Picking the best driver – the fastest, the best racer, the one who beat a strong team mate, the most dependable – is inevitably subjective. The margins between the very best are razor-thin."


The Top Three here are certainly the three most competitive drivers of the three most competitive teams. Most probably we have some national bias here, the same driver rankings on a Spanish website would probably have Fernando Alonso ahead, the same driver rankings on a German website would have Vettel (who else?).

So it is quite safe to say that these three were the strongest (in whatever sequence), then Kubica, Rosberg, Webber and Button, which I can fully agree with.


#297 Mandzipop

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 15:35

Mine is

1) Vettel
2) Alonso
3) Hamilton
4) Kubica
5) Rosberg
6) Webber
7) Button

Teams

1) Ferrari
2) Red Bull
3) Lotus