17 replies to this topic

[EvDelft]

Hi there.

As everybody knows, in the F1 World Championship we have two championships: one for drivers and one for constructors...

So, question: have all the other F1 championships (Tasman, HFO, South African and others) also had a constructors championship?

[David McKinney]

Pretty sure not, for the simple reason that while constructors built cars specifically for F1, they tended not to for the other series

[EvDelft]

Pretty sure not, for the simple reason that while constructors built cars specifically for F1, they tended not to for the other series

Is that so? I mean, there are cars built especially for the Tasman, for the Sovyet, for the South African and for the Argentinian series...

[Bjorn Kjer]

Yes you could say so , at least they were not F1 cars (in general).

[EvDelft]

Now that is what can be discussed. Since all of these series are called "F1", that makes the cars F1-cars in my opinion. Not for being a moroun, just trying to find out...

[Bjorn Kjer]

I do not recall the non F1 series being called F1 ? Perhaps with the exception of the ZA series (for some years ).

[David McKinney]

Now that is what can be discussed. Since all of these series are called "F1", that makes the cars F1-cars in my opinion. Not for being a moroun, just trying to find out...

You're entitled to your opinion

Most of us know what we mean by F1, and regard it as irrelevant if other countries happened to use the same name for their own formulae

[Kpy]

Now that is what can be discussed. Since all of these series are called "F1", that makes the cars F1-cars in my opinion. Not for being a moroun, just trying to find out...

The Tasman Formula was never F1, nor was it called that. From its inception in 1964 to 1969 the engines were 2.5 litres rather than current F1 engines. After that the series was run according to F5000 regs with the addition of the admission of 2.5 litre engines (1970/71) and 2.0 litre (1972/75).
The South American Temporada series was run for various formulae, but not for F1.
There was a South African Formula One Championship from 1960 to 1975 in which retired F1 cars and local specials were raced.
None of these featured a Constructors Championship.

[David McKinney]

The South American Temporada series was run for various formulae, but not for F1.

There was an Argentine national racing category called Formula 1, but not the F1 we know and love
Ditto USSR

[uechtel]

A couple of years ago I watched a Formula 1 race in the Netherlands...

http://brisca.com/

But don´t forget to take your umbrellas!

[Michael Ferner]

That's the sort of Formula 1 World Championship that Derek Warwick once won...;)

EDIT: following uechtel's link, I see they have a "Hall of Fame", yet I can't find Warwick in there - I'm sure I read back in the days, that Warwick was "F1 World Champion" in Stock Cars, am I dreaming?

Edited by Michael Ferner, 25 November 2010 - 13:59.

[Tim Murray]

Derek Warwick won his stock car 'world' title in 1973 with Superstox. Although BRISCA and Superstox both organise stock car racing in the UK they are separate organisations. BRISCA have organised F1 and F2 championships, but I'm not sure that Superstox ever did, so I don't think that Warwick can lay claim to an 'F1' title. You'll find his name on the roll of honour here:

http://www.superstox.org.uk/

(click on 'Championships' then 'World Champions')

[f1steveuk]

I suspect it depends of the definition of "F1", which technically is the set of rules (or formula) that a legible car is built to. For the Tasman, most cars were built to the then current F1 reg's, that the engine (in some cases the DFW) was 2.5 was not p to the limit, doesn't preclude it from being an F1 car, though it's fair to say, and constructor would get as close to the limit as possible, it's just that the Tasman series had a lower limit!

So were South African, Austrailian cars built to the then CSI/FISA/FIA F1 reg's?? If so, they were F1 races in all but name. Just an opinion

[uechtel]

No, I think it is just the other way round!

The problem is, that there weren´t such rules. Until 1960 F1 was defined only by the engine capacity. AFAIK no regulations concerning the chassis. So according to your definition anything beneath 2.5 litre engine size would have been a Formula 1 car, even a VW Beetle...

After 1961, in addition to the new engine capacity, there were only some 'general' limitations like minimum weight of 450 kg, open wheels, 100 octane fuel plus some basic safety regulations like roll-over bar, starter, two-circuit hydraulic brakes, electricity switch. Nothing very specific to distinguish a F1 car from other single seaters.

Also, in my opinion, a series may only be called 'Formula 1' if it meets two conditions:
- the rules must exclude all cars that do not comply with Formula 1 specifications
- the rules must allow in all kind of cars that do comply with Formul 1 specifications

That means it is not sufficent, that actually all cars are Formula 1 cars, for example to me the South African races from the first half of the sixties can not be a 'Formula 1' series, as to my knowledge they excluded eight cylinder engines. And in the seventies they had also F5000 cars in the events, so to me that makes it Formule Libre, perhaps with a Formula 1 class as a subdivision.

Edited by uechtel, 25 November 2010 - 18:58.

[Kpy]

I suspect it depends of the definition of "F1", which technically is the set of rules (or formula) that a legible car is built to. For the Tasman, most cars were built to the then current F1 reg's, that the engine (in some cases the DFW) was 2.5 was not p to the limit, doesn't preclude it from being an F1 car, though it's fair to say, and constructor would get as close to the limit as possible, it's just that the Tasman series had a lower limit!

Not in 1963-65. The F1 limit was 1.5 litres.

So were South African, Austrailian cars built to the then CSI/FISA/FIA F1 reg's?? If so, they were F1 races in all but name. Just an opinion

I think you'll find that, whilst F1 cars were eligible for both those series, so were cars which did not comply with F1 regulations.

[EvDelft]

Well... Any way, I have learned a lot. Again!

Suppose then, that no-one really knows the answer to my original question?;)

[Shane Bowden]

Not in 1963-65. The F1 limit was 1.5 litres.


I think you'll find that, whilst F1 cars were eligible for both those series, so were cars which did not comply with F1 regulations.

I am sure that in my youth that the Tasman series events in Austalia were for ANF1 - Australian National F1

[Bjorn Kjer]

The answer to your question then is : NO. (because there are or were no
F1 championships).

Edited by Bjørn Kjer, 26 November 2010 - 05:43.