Jump to content


Photo

Can anyone identify these photos?


  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 Nev

Nev
  • Member

  • 252 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 26 November 2010 - 07:57

Although I recognise the ugly chap with the moustache I must admit that my knowledge of Auto-Union/Mercedes is rather limited :blush:

Can anyone identify the people and cars in these original photos? I came across a collection of around 200 in a house-clearance auction. All of them include various poses of a certain Chaplin-esque individual :p but these are the only two that are car-related. I am particularly interested in identifying the driver talking to Adolf beside the Mercedes.

Posted Image

Posted Image




Advertisement

#2 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Member

  • 14,738 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 26 November 2010 - 08:26

The bottom photo shows the presentation of the new Mercedes-Benz W25 to Hitler on 4th January 1934 at the MB showroom in Munich. Alfred Neubauer is behind the r/h front wheel. Those closest to the car are (from left) Josef Goebbels, Hans Nibel, Hitler and Jakob Werlin.

#3 taylov

taylov
  • Member

  • 605 posts
  • Joined: February 05

Posted 26 November 2010 - 08:35

In the top photo the driver looks like SS-Obersturmbannführer (Lieutenant Colonel) Erich Kempka (16 September 1910 – 24 January 1975) who served as Adolf Hitler's chauffeur from 1934.

The shape of the face is very much Kempka's but my only doubt is that in 99% of the photos I have seen of him "on duty", he is always wearing his SS uniform. This looks rather informal which is unusual.

Tony



#4 Arjan de Roos

Arjan de Roos
  • Member

  • 2,089 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 26 November 2010 - 09:22

The bottom photo shows the presentation of the new Mercedes-Benz W25 to Hitler on 4th January 1934 at the MB showroom in Munich. Alfred Neubauer is behind the r/h front wheel. Those closest to the car are (from left) Josef Goebbels, Hans Nibel, Hitler and Jakob Werlin.


Hans Nibel was head engineering at Daimler-Benz, died later that year.
Werlin was Hitler's car fixer, or intermediate.


#5 Arjan de Roos

Arjan de Roos
  • Member

  • 2,089 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 26 November 2010 - 09:45

In the top photo the driver looks like SS-Obersturmbannführer (Lieutenant Colonel) Erich Kempka (16 September 1910 – 24 January 1975) who served as Adolf Hitler's chauffeur from 1934.

The shape of the face is very much Kempka's but my only doubt is that in 99% of the photos I have seen of him "on duty", he is always wearing his SS uniform. This looks rather informal which is unusual.

Tony

Caracciola described in one of his biographies having to deliver a MB to AH. This picture though looks to be Kempka. There are more pictures of him close to Hitler wearing civvies.

#6 Nev

Nev
  • Member

  • 252 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 26 November 2010 - 11:38

It is all fascinating stuff - thank you all for taking the trouble to reply. There really is a wealth of knowledge in this forum.

I will keep looking through the photos I have. Although there aren't any actual cars there are some that show buildings which may have an automotive connection. I'll post any that may be of interest to this forum. I don't suppose the SS will try to enforce copyright here ...


#7 Nev

Nev
  • Member

  • 252 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 26 November 2010 - 11:56

The first is presumably inside the M-B factory?

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image


#8 taylov

taylov
  • Member

  • 605 posts
  • Joined: February 05

Posted 26 November 2010 - 19:55

Caracciola described in one of his biographies having to deliver a MB to AH. This picture though looks to be Kempka. There are more pictures of him close to Hitler wearing civvies.


Kempka's autobiography has been published in an English language verson - "I Was Hitler's Chauffeur: The Memoir of Erich Kempka".

Perhaps this photo is in the book.

Tony


#9 elansprint72

elansprint72
  • Member

  • 3,388 posts
  • Joined: September 08

Posted 26 November 2010 - 23:19

Nev,
Suggest that you contact the Imperial War Museum; this is history; a dark side of history but worth sharing with those who record these sort of events.

btw, were these films (negatives) or prints?

Pete.

#10 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 24,508 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 27 November 2010 - 01:28

There are lots of pictures of these ceremonial Autobahn opening processions, but I think I may have matched it to one in the Ullsteinbild Archive: the bridge and surrounds look identical. The Ullstein picture is captioned as the opening of the section between Munich and Holzkirchen in 1935.

Posted Image

#11 Nev

Nev
  • Member

  • 252 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 27 November 2010 - 06:38

Nev,
Suggest that you contact the Imperial War Museum; this is history; a dark side of history but worth sharing with those who record these sort of events.

btw, were these films (negatives) or prints?

Pete.


Hi Pete - these are all prints. Although they appear to be authentic 1930s prints they seem to be part of some sort of collector's series and are all numbered. They are certainly professionally produced and not the work of an amateur - except for one which is a snap of soldiers carrying out some sort of ceremonial exercise. My wife feels quite uncomfortable with these photos so I guess I will have to get rid of them. Hopefully they can go to an individual or museum that has interest in this sort of thing.


#12 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Member

  • 14,738 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 27 November 2010 - 07:30

I don't know if this helps at all, but the photo of the W25 presentation is one of several taken at the event. Three of them (including the one posted here) appear in Hitler's Motor Racing Battles by Eberhard Reuss, and there's also one in Chris Nixon's Racing the Silver Arrows. In both books photographic copyright is credited to Daimler-Benz AG.

#13 Nev

Nev
  • Member

  • 252 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 27 November 2010 - 16:16

I don't know if this helps at all, but the photo of the W25 presentation is one of several taken at the event. Three of them (including the one posted here) appear in Hitler's Motor Racing Battles by Eberhard Reuss, and there's also one in Chris Nixon's Racing the Silver Arrows. In both books photographic copyright is credited to Daimler-Benz AG.


No sign of a copyright statement. The following text is transcribed from the back of the picture of the W25. I don't speak a single word of German (well - perhaps "zwei bieres bitte fraulein" - but that's as far as it goes). Any german speakers here?


Sammelwerk Nr.15
Adolf Hitler
Bild Nr.89
Gruppe 67
Der auf anregung des fuhrers gebaute mercedes-benz-rennwagen.

Zu diesem werk gehoren die 6 bildergruppen 62-67. Die auswahl und kunstlerische bearbeitung der bilder ubernahm der reichs-bildberichterstatter der NSDAP, Heinrich Hoffmann; Entwurf fur einband und titel sind von D.H.W. hadank, Berlin, die graphische gestaltung von Carl Ernst Poeschel, Leipzig. Nachste Mitarbeiter und alteste kampfgenossen des fuhrers sprechen in diesem buch zur Offentlichkeit und schildern den menschen Adolf Hitler in seinem klaren fuhlen und denken, durch das er sich die achtung der welt und die unerschopfliche liebe des deutschen volkes ermorben hat.

Die bis jekt von uns herausgegebenen sammelwerke sind auf der ruckseite unsere bilderschecks aufgezahlt. Weitere werke sind in vorbereitung.

Posted Image


I have since found a wikipaedia reference to the photographer Heinrich Hoffman Heinrich Hoffman



#14 Nev

Nev
  • Member

  • 252 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 27 November 2010 - 16:20

No sign of a copyright statement. The following text is transcribed from the back of the picture of the W25. I don't speak a single word of German (well - perhaps "zwei bieres bitte fraulein" - but that's as far as it goes). Any german speakers here?

I have since found a wikipaedia reference to the photographer Heinrich Hoffman Heinrich Hoffman


Wikipaedia says " These photographs are considered to be in the public domain in the US owing to their status as seized Nazi property (otherwise their copyrights would not yet have expired)". Sounds like I won't get a visit from the Gestapo if I publish them here ;)


#15 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 27 November 2010 - 20:47

The US is not the worldwide web :)


#16 elansprint72

elansprint72
  • Member

  • 3,388 posts
  • Joined: September 08

Posted 27 November 2010 - 21:59

Somehow I don't see Mercedes Benz making a fuss about any copyrights from this period.

#17 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 24,508 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 27 November 2010 - 22:39

The gist of that text on the back is that the pictures were commissioned by the Nazi Party. I get the impression that there would also be an album into which they were designed to be mounted, probably with "suitably patriotic" captions.

A sort of early version of Panini football stickers ...

I have occasionally seen a similar collection of pictures of 30s German racing drivers and motorcyclists for sale on eBay and ABE. For very large amounts of money. But I suspect those are a lot rarer than these: the top line of that text suggests it's "Collector's set No 15".

#18 Nev

Nev
  • Member

  • 252 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 28 November 2010 - 07:06

The gist of that text on the back is that the pictures were commissioned by the Nazi Party. I get the impression that there would also be an album into which they were designed to be mounted, probably with "suitably patriotic" captions.

A sort of early version of Panini football stickers ...

I have occasionally seen a similar collection of pictures of 30s German racing drivers and motorcyclists for sale on eBay and ABE. For very large amounts of money. But I suspect those are a lot rarer than these: the top line of that text suggests it's "Collector's set No 15".


I suspect you are absolutely correct. There was a large format hardback cigarette-card-type-book that came from the same house clearance complete with a different collector series - the pictures have all been pasted into the book. The book is incredibly jingoistic exalting the virtues of Germany's international colonies and world power in the 1930s. It does make me wonder about the "motivation" of the original collector of these pictures ...

I also suspect they are not worth a whole lot of money but are perhaps of interest to a collector in that they record a dark period of world history. I will probably hang on the pictures with automotive connections (because I am sad like that) but my wife insists she doesn't want the remainder in the house.

#19 taylov

taylov
  • Member

  • 605 posts
  • Joined: February 05

Posted 28 November 2010 - 16:52

I thought some of these images were familiar.

They are from a set issued as cigarette cards by the same company which issued 2 sets for the the 1936 Summer and Winter Olympics. The blue albums turn up often in auctions in the UK. They do have any great value as they were produced in such large numbers.

Most of the racing driver cards that turn up on eBay are pukka postcards. Sets were issued by several companies including official M-B ones. These cards can reach sizable sums especially those signed by the drivers.

Tony

Edited by taylov, 28 November 2010 - 16:56.