Jump to content


Photo

Pre-War sprints and hillclimbs photos


  • Please log in to reply
267 replies to this topic

#1 ratkinso

ratkinso
  • Member

  • 62 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 28 November 2010 - 18:29

I have a collection of prints and negatives taken by my uncle who was an engineer/special builder/competitor and keen photographer, which I hope will be of interest to some. BUT, none of the cars or drivers are identified, so if anyone is interested, and has the info, I will be delighted to learn who he snapped.

Shelsley September 1937:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

I think the second picture might be the fabulous Freikaiserwagen concocted by Joe Fry and Dick Caesar.

Cheers,

Richard

Advertisement

#2 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 23,848 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 28 November 2010 - 18:35

Third one is AFP Fane in the Frazer Nash single-seater, possibly on his hill record run of 38.77 seconds.

#3 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 23,848 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 28 November 2010 - 18:40

Fourth picture is an SS Jaguar, possibly SH Newsome, who came second in the 5 litre class.

#4 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 23,848 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 28 November 2010 - 18:54

You're correct on the Freik, of course. I think the first one might be Kay Petre's Austin: she set a new ladies' record at this meeting and came third in class behind Goodacre and Hadley's works cars.

#5 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Member

  • 14,205 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 28 November 2010 - 19:24

Could the first photo be 'Fuzzi'?

#6 ratkinso

ratkinso
  • Member

  • 62 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 28 November 2010 - 19:25

You're correct on the Freik, of course. I think the first one might be Kay Petre's Austin: she set a new ladies' record at this meeting and came third in class behind Goodacre and Hadley's works cars.


Thanks Vitesse2 - presumably you have access to the results to so swiftly identify them. Was Joe Fry the driver on this occasion? Amazing how the infrastucture of the shelters in that last picture is still so recognisable!

More to come if you and others are interested.

Cheers,

Richard

#7 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 23,848 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 28 November 2010 - 19:39

Could the first photo be 'Fuzzi'?

Yes, I sit corrected! I thought it might be the Austin with some sort of radiator blanking plate.

Driver could be either Joan Richmond or Robert Waddy as they both ran. She came third in the 1100cc class behind Fry: Motor Sport described her run as "startling".

#8 simonlewisbooks

simonlewisbooks
  • Member

  • 2,118 posts
  • Joined: January 02

Posted 28 November 2010 - 21:39

Yes, I sit corrected! I thought it might be the Austin with some sort of radiator blanking plate.

Driver could be either Joan Richmond or Robert Waddy as they both ran. She came third in the 1100cc class behind Fry: Motor Sport described her run as "startling".

Didn't Fuzzi feature front and rear engines, 4 wheel drive and a throttle pedal that when moved sideways could alter the power split between front and rear engines(and therefor wheels)?
If thats true then it's probably no wonder the run was remarked on....

#9 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 23,848 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 28 November 2010 - 21:57

Dead right, Simon. I believe this was Fuzzi's first outing after Waddy crashed it at the Whitchurch Sprint earlier in 1937.

#10 RogerFrench

RogerFrench
  • Member

  • 382 posts
  • Joined: February 08

Posted 29 November 2010 - 03:24

Dead right, Simon. I believe this was Fuzzi's first outing after Waddy crashed it at the Whitchurch Sprint earlier in 1937.


I thought Fuzzi's throttle pedal was pivoted in the middle, and so you pressed more with the heel for rear power, toe for front, and a straight shove for both equally.

Edited by RogerFrench, 29 November 2010 - 03:25.


#11 fuzzi

fuzzi
  • Member

  • 471 posts
  • Joined: August 06

Posted 29 November 2010 - 07:02

In "Specials" John Bolster says:

"..the Bowden cables from the two carburettors being connected to a special accelerator pedal which moved in two planes. The normal up-and-down movement closed and opened both throttles together but lateral movement had a differential effect between the two engines, the theory being that one could give more or less to the front or back according to the situation in which one found oneself."

Hope that helps. :wave:

#12 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Member

  • 14,205 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 29 November 2010 - 07:27

However, DSJ in The Racing Car Pocketbook says:

'The engines were not coupled together, but the two throttles were joined to a single rocking pedal. Depressing the pedal opened both throttles, while the toe opened one and the heel the other independently ... '

#13 fuzzi

fuzzi
  • Member

  • 471 posts
  • Joined: August 06

Posted 29 November 2010 - 10:03

Aagh! Bites knuckles.

Well, it seems the only thing to do is buy two 500cc Dirt Track engines, a pair of motorcycle gearboxes, some tubing and a set of Austin Seven Brakes (tick) and build a replica. Then we'll see which system works best. Jenks's version sounds to be the more logical.

Fuzzi does (I believe) still exist with the Mercury engine fitted later does it retain the original four-wheel drive and throttle arrangement?

#14 Mistron

Mistron
  • Member

  • 838 posts
  • Joined: June 05

Posted 29 November 2010 - 10:17

O/T but on the subject of odd pedal layouts, John Haughton of Coldwell / Biota 'fame' developed a unique pedal system which I understand he patented and got as far as discussing with Lotus amongst other race car manufacturers.

from memory, on his system the brake and acclerator were linked on a horizontal pivot - I think you tilted the pedal for throttle and depressed it against the hydraulics for braking. the therory being that changes from throttle to brake would be more instantaneous.

Unfortunately I've not seen the system in the metal as it had been removed by the time I owned the Coldwell Mink. I think Sid Marler reconed it had a large part to play in his shunting the car on his first outing in it, and it was also responsible in part for an accident by a guest driver in the works Biota.

Still, when i spoke to John he remained convinced of the virtues of the system in competition cars. Sid Marler was more pragmatic. He asked if the car now had "a pedal set as God intended?" :lol:

#15 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Member

  • 14,205 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 29 November 2010 - 10:38

Jenks's version sounds to be the more logical.

Agreed absolutely. In the Jenks version all throttle (cable) movement would be in one plane. The Bolster version would require movement in two planes, which would surely mean some very complicated linkages or cable arrangements. Also, unless the driver's foot fitted into some sort of shoe on the pedal, his or her foot would be likely to slip off the pedal when trying to move it from side to side. I wonder whether Bolster might have confused things by using the word 'lateral' incorrectly, when he was actually trying to describe tha same arrangement as DSJ's.

#16 Geoff E

Geoff E
  • Member

  • 1,210 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 29 November 2010 - 11:19

Was Joe Fry the driver on this occasion?


It was his first outing in the Freik.

#17 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Member

  • 14,205 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 29 November 2010 - 11:32

No, his first outing in it was the Lewes Speed Trials held the previous month. It was, however, Joe's first ever event at Shelsley.

#18 ratkinso

ratkinso
  • Member

  • 62 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 29 November 2010 - 14:40

Dead right, Simon. I believe this was Fuzzi's first outing after Waddy crashed it at the Whitchurch Sprint earlier in 1937.


Cue more pictures!

Whitchurch May 1937

Waddy and Fuzzi:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Two more:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Cheers,

Richard

#19 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Member

  • 14,205 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 29 November 2010 - 15:09

Cue more pictures!
Two more:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Cheers,

Richard

The first photo is Bert Hadley, who set FTD in the #33 Austin. I'm fairly sure the second photo is the Freikaiserwagen again, driven by David Fry. This was its first event of the 1937 season - front bodywork and aerofoil-shaped tank came later.

Full details of the Whitchurch Sprint are on the Bristol motor sport section of TNFer Pete Stowe's site:

http://website.lineo...church_1937.htm

Advertisement

#20 simonlewisbooks

simonlewisbooks
  • Member

  • 2,118 posts
  • Joined: January 02

Posted 29 November 2010 - 15:31

Wow!, thanks for the extra photos Richard !
Here's couple I have which are both listed as Fuzzi but clearly , if they are, the car is in very different guises.

Posted Image
Posted Image

Are we talking pre and post Whitchurch accident, or an earlier version entirely??
And is the battered looking nose section in (very)beaten metal or early fibreglass?

#21 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Member

  • 14,205 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 29 November 2010 - 15:48

Starting in 1946, Robert Waddy completely reworked Fuzzi. He lengthened the chassis, got rid of the two JAP engines and installed a Mercury V8 in front of the driver. The car was still 4wd, with a complex system of chains and shafts taking the drive to the front wheels. DSJ described it in The Racing Car Pocketbook as 'a complicated contraption that defeated itself by its complexity' and recalls shedding a tear as he helped Waddy saw the original Fuzzi in half.

I assume that Simon's first photo is the car in its later incarnation.

#22 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 23,848 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 29 November 2010 - 16:00

Logically, Fuzzi ought to be parked somewhere along Ridgeway Lane, but I can't identify the exact house. Tim?

#23 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Member

  • 14,205 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 29 November 2010 - 17:25

I'm not very familiar with that bit of Bristle, Richard. I've had a look on Google Earth, but can't find anything that fits. I've alerted Pete Stowe to Richard's Whitchurch photos - he may have a better idea.

#24 fuzzi

fuzzi
  • Member

  • 471 posts
  • Joined: August 06

Posted 29 November 2010 - 17:37

Wow!, thanks for the extra photos Richard !
Here's couple I have which are both listed as Fuzzi but clearly , if they are, the car is in very different guises.

Posted Image
Posted Image

Are we talking pre and post Whitchurch accident, or an earlier version entirely??
And is the battered looking nose section in (very)beaten metal or early fibreglass?


I don't think the top car is Fuzzi which I believe was only driven by Robert Waddy or Joan Richmond. It might be Dorcas in one of its' incarnations, but the whole thing looks too bulky and the front brakes/wheels are wrong for Fuzzi.

If only we could find that Waddy had used fibreglass before the war then VSCC special building today would be much easier for many. The body is almost certainly light alloy. (Robert Waddy was known to be a master welder).


#25 ratkinso

ratkinso
  • Member

  • 62 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 29 November 2010 - 18:49

Very grateful to be getting these identifications. Hope they are of interest - and maybe of some use to historians?

No more Fuzzi, but 4 more from the Bristol area in 1937.

Backwell July:

Posted Image

CAPA at Limeridge:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Naish House Hill October:

Posted Image

If anyone wants to explore these times further, there is a fascinating DVD containing archive footage of these events and some early (postwar) Castle Combe and Dyrham Park events produced by a local company.

Cheers,

Richard

#26 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 29 November 2010 - 19:46

If only we could find that Waddy had used fibreglass before the war ....

Looks like papier maché to me

And Richard - those CAPA photos are priceless :up:

Edited by David McKinney, 29 November 2010 - 19:47.


#27 Pete Stowe

Pete Stowe
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 29 November 2010 - 20:49

Very grateful to be getting these identifications. Hope they are of interest - and maybe of some use to historians?

No more Fuzzi, but 4 more from the Bristol area in 1937.

Backwell July:

Posted Image

CAPA at Limeridge:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Naish House Hill October:

Posted Image

If anyone wants to explore these times further, there is a fascinating DVD containing archive footage of these events and some early (postwar) Castle Combe and Dyrham Park events produced by a local company.

Cheers,

Richard

Wonderful photos Richard, thank you for posting them :clap:
Backwell no. 11 was, according to the programme, Joan Richmond, HRG.

The two CAPA photos are, as David says, priceless. These are on the first CAPA track through Dick Caesar's wood at Limeridge, before it all moved to a track on Joe Fry's estate.

Naish Hill in October '37 was probably the first use of that venue.

Presumably your uncle was a member of Bristol MC&LCC? In 2011 they will be celebrating their centenary, and I understand are producing a new DVD which will include more of their film archive .

#28 Cardenas

Cardenas
  • Member

  • 59 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 29 November 2010 - 23:46

Fourth picture is an SS Jaguar, possibly SH Newsome, who came second in the 5 litre class.



5litres? what engine had that SS?

#29 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 23,848 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 30 November 2010 - 00:11

5litres? what engine had that SS?

It would be a standard 3.5 litre. The capacity classes were split at 750cc, 1.1, 1.5, 2.0, 3.0 and 5.0 litres, with a further "unlimited" class.

#30 john medley

john medley
  • Member

  • 1,160 posts
  • Joined: November 02

Posted 30 November 2010 - 07:06

I believe the pic of Waddy in nose battered Fuzzi was taken by Rollo Martin who ended up in Newcastle NSW after the war

Poor battered Fuzzi. Didnt Waddy claim he had to do so much work overnight before EVERY event that on at least one occasion he actually fell asleep while competing?

In Joan Richmond's as yet-unpublished biog far too little attention is paid to her grapplings with Fuzzi

The CAPA pics are WONDERFUL , and the first I have seen

#31 Stephen W

Stephen W
  • Member

  • 11,659 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 30 November 2010 - 08:53

Presumably your uncle was a member of Bristol MC&LCC? In 2011 they will be celebrating their centenary, and I understand are producing a new DVD which will include more of their film archive .


I am sure that Bristol MC would be delighted to have access to the photos of their postwar events. Check out their website for contact details:

Bristol MC

:wave:


#32 Ted Walker

Ted Walker
  • Member

  • 1,432 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 30 November 2010 - 09:09

Simon re post 20. The car at the top is Neil Eason Gibson in his ford special .

#33 RTH

RTH
  • Member

  • 5,726 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 30 November 2010 - 09:44

Aren't these pictures just marvelous.

#34 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Member

  • 14,205 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 30 November 2010 - 10:11

Absolutely. I do hope there will be more. :wave:

#35 ratkinso

ratkinso
  • Member

  • 62 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 30 November 2010 - 11:29

How rewarding to get such enthusiastic feedback, and yes, I do have a few more. The quality isn't too good, but it just seems remarkable to have any images at all from so long ago. Here are three really interesting pages preserved locked away for all this time. I love rule #14!

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Cheers,

Richard



#36 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Member

  • 14,205 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 30 November 2010 - 11:58

This is all fascinating stuff. Thank you, Richard.

#37 ratkinso

ratkinso
  • Member

  • 62 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 30 November 2010 - 12:36

The CAPA tie, as mentioned above:

Posted Image

and some more CAPA images, I presume from North Hill, undated:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Cheers,

Richard

#38 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 23,848 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 30 November 2010 - 12:42

Very interesting! Looking at that first sheet, it must be from 1949, given the derogatory references to nationalisation and "Pool beer". The only other years in which February 13th was a Sunday are 1938 and 1944 and in the latter case, April 10th was Easter Monday.

#39 Allan Lupton

Allan Lupton
  • Member

  • 3,022 posts
  • Joined: March 06

Posted 30 November 2010 - 12:46

The bottom photo in post 37 is the AC-engined Alfi-CAPA known to us post-war as Doc Taylor's Caesar Special.

Edited by Allan Lupton, 30 November 2010 - 12:47.


Advertisement

#40 simonlewisbooks

simonlewisbooks
  • Member

  • 2,118 posts
  • Joined: January 02

Posted 30 November 2010 - 12:55

Simon re post 20. The car at the top is Neil Eason Gibson in his ford special .

Cheers Ted, you would be amazed how many people at Shelsley have failed to recognise it over the past couple of years.
Not sure where the incorrect Fuzzi identification came from it's been marked up as such for a long time.

Edited by simonlewisbooks, 30 November 2010 - 12:56.


#41 Cardenas

Cardenas
  • Member

  • 59 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 30 November 2010 - 13:04

It would be a standard 3.5 litre. The capacity classes were split at 750cc, 1.1, 1.5, 2.0, 3.0 and 5.0 litres, with a further "unlimited" class.



thanks, I thought it was using a 5.0l engine.


:)

#42 Ted Walker

Ted Walker
  • Member

  • 1,432 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 01 December 2010 - 09:21

Post 37 2nd photo car on the left is my late father in his CAPA car "ventre a terr" I still have a lot of CAPA stuff including a tie and both my mothers and fathers membership cards. I thinkthe photo was taken by James Brymer as I have a similar one on one of 2000 rolls of films I have of his.

#43 fuzzi

fuzzi
  • Member

  • 471 posts
  • Joined: August 06

Posted 01 December 2010 - 10:15

Simon re post 20. The car at the top is Neil Eason Gibson in his ford special .


After Ted's prompt I had another look round and found a photo in Graham Gauld's "Scottish Motor Racing and Drivers" and there is a photo of John Eason Gibson in the car, slicked back hair and all, and the car is said to be a Riley Special. However the text says "The [Brooklands Riley] was replaced with an off-set sngle seater Riley and he was also offered drives in Ken Hutchison's (spelt Hutchinson) Zoller-supercharged single seater Ford special."

The wheels don't look like Riley wheels and the driver looks more like Ken Hutchison.

Edited by fuzzi, 01 December 2010 - 10:16.


#44 Sharman

Sharman
  • Member

  • 2,316 posts
  • Joined: September 05

Posted 01 December 2010 - 11:56

In the report of the August meeting there are two CAPA races, 1) 10 lap Quarry and 2)10 Lap Sanctuary. Explication anybody?

#45 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Member

  • 14,205 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 01 December 2010 - 14:21

The 'outer circuit' used pre-war at North Hill was just under a mile long. This could be divided into two subsidiary circuits, Quarry and Sanctuary. The outer circuit was always run anticlockwise, while Quarry and Sanctuary were usually run clockwise.

Edited by Tim Murray, 01 December 2010 - 14:33.


#46 bradbury west

bradbury west
  • Member

  • 4,567 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 01 December 2010 - 19:36

Tim, knowing stuff like that is why you had your 1983 victory.
Roger Lund

#47 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Member

  • 14,205 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 01 December 2010 - 22:18

Heavens, Roger, fancy you remembering that - or were you taking part as well?

#48 bradbury west

bradbury west
  • Member

  • 4,567 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 02 December 2010 - 07:39

Tim, I have Pete's book. Highly recommended as a concise history of his club
RL

#49 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Member

  • 14,205 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 02 December 2010 - 08:29

Ah, right you are. Agree absolutely about Pete's book.

#50 simonlewisbooks

simonlewisbooks
  • Member

  • 2,118 posts
  • Joined: January 02

Posted 02 December 2010 - 13:23

The 'outer circuit' used pre-war at North Hill was just under a mile long. This could be divided into two subsidiary circuits, Quarry and Sanctuary. The outer circuit was always run anticlockwise, while Quarry and Sanctuary were usually run clockwise.


Can any of these CAPA circuits be pinpointed/outlined on Google Earth? Or have the surroundings been obliterated by housing or airport development?

These really are wonderful photos. CAPA appears to have had a significant effect on the future racing car industry in Britain and yet it's always been cloaked in obscurity.
In some ways that makes it even more appealing to us today.