21 replies to this topic

[LittleBertha]

I have a map detailing the route of the 69 RAC and it shows the Start/Finish as 'Centre Airport Hotel' in London - does anyone know any detail on this location as all my searches have drawn a blank.

Once I have finished rebuilding my Mini which took part and finished the 69 event I plan to drive it round the route visiing all the stage locations in as close to the schedule as I can achieve. Clearly knowing where to start would be a bonus!

L-B

Edited by LittleBertha, 08 December 2010 - 15:10.

[Alan Cox]

Centre Airport Hotel was at Bath Road, Longford, Middlesex, opened in 1968.
Here is a (silent) film of the opening
http://www.britishpa...rd.php?id=72207

[LittleBertha]

Thanks for the quick response Alan

L-B

[Tim Murray]

I'm not 100% certain, but I think it later became the Heathrow Park Hotel, which is now the Thistle Heathrow Hotel:

http://www.milesfast...le-heathrow.htm

[Nick Wa]

Despite the current excuses being put about that it does not generally snow as early as this, now would be the ideal time to start as it started to snow at about 10 p.m. the first evening and did not thaw until the last morning. Even then the woods were still snow covered if not the tracks although the road sections were never impassable. However to completely replicate the conditions you will need about 10,000 spectators to ensure the complete grid lock around the North Wales stages (Clocaenog I II III IV).

The Start

Edited by Nick Wa, 08 December 2010 - 15:56.

[LittleBertha]

Having looked at multimap and tracked Bath Road I wondered if it was now the Thistle.....right on the doorstep of T5

From the original navigator I have copies of a heap of Foster and Skeff pictures from 69 some of which have in the background trees heavily weighed down with snow - very picturesque!

Certainly it would be good to try and undertake the trip close to the right time - not sure I have enough friends to make up those numbers

L-B

[RS2000]

Little Bertha, if you are not aware, Nick Wa above was a class winner on the 1969 RAC.
The start hotel was on the edge of the airport to the left of the fork where the Colnbrook by-pass branched off to the right and the "old" road forked left to Poyle and Colnbrook. There was a pub in the middle of the fork, the name of which escapes me (I was more familiar with The Travellers' Friend and The Jolly Waggoner, east of the airport on the A4). 1969 was the second time that hotel was used as the RAC start. Prior to 68, Forte's Excellsior Hotel, by the spur road, was used from 65.
Servicing, we encountered snow at the top of the N York Moors. Competing friends coming out of Kielder were ashen faced at our service point, talking of "now we know all about ice racing".
This is the start in 69 but you can't see much. I decline to identify the bemused teenager on the left...



Which was your car?

Edited by RS2000, 08 December 2010 - 16:24.

[RS2000]

Less snow in Scottish borders (pretty sure this is the bridge on Twiglees) was also the case on the Roger Albert Clark Historic Rally last week as well as the 69 RAC. (Just been to view the car of my near neighbour, Will Onions, who went off in the borders when making a push for the lead on the "Roger Albert". The rock broke the cage...)

[LittleBertha]

The car we are rebuilding is the #90 Dave Jenkins / John Green 1275S HPP365C. It is white with a black roof and was (and will be again) swathed in 'I like Swipe' stickers. They also did the Scottish in 69/70 and by the end of the latter the floor was so damaged that John + seat went down through on a stage.

Dave is known for losing his navigator from the A-H 3000 on 'the 66 RAC when he decamped at TC3 declaring he would go no further as he was 'completely stark raving +%^&* mad!'

I am hoping to get the two of them back in it at some point - maybe as part of my tour.

L-B

Edited by LittleBertha, 08 December 2010 - 19:31.

[RS2000]

You said in the first post you had a map of the 69 route. Do you have the actual Roadbook? I can scan it if not (when time permits).

[LittleBertha]

You said in the first post you had a map of the 69 route. Do you have the actual Roadbook? I can scan it if not (when time permits).

That would be really great - what I have is a folded A3 white card which is printed with a basic layout of the route and some timing guides. Do you think this might have been produced for spectators?

John tells me he has a lots of stuff to dig through - he remembers that they did well (won class maybe?) on the Scottish in 70 (but could be 69!) and we are hoping to find some results in his collection.

L-B

[RS2000]

Not much help but here is the Roadbook first page. The first "Tulip" T junction is turning out of the hotel car park after leaving the start ramp. The second must be where the Colnbrook by-pass leaves the "old" A4 - but if it is, the by-pass is missing and there should be another road at about 7 o'clock. (Being local, we wouldn't have been using the roadbook at that point).



Not sure what the white card would have been - especially if it's A3 (did we have that then or were we still on foolscap etc?!). Programme would have been usual size booklet (A5 or equivalent?).

Edited by RS2000, 08 December 2010 - 20:17.

[LittleBertha]

Thanks - interesting

The map I have is as close as nothing to A3 in size - it is slightly shiny on the printed side

The only reason i think it could be for spectators is that it has the following disclaimer in the bottom right; (all times are approximate and indicate when the first car is expected to arrive at points mentioned)

L-B

[RS2000]

I guess your A3 list must have been a pre-event advertising thing. In later years they produced coloured posters showing the route outline.
I've a feeling we have discussed 69 RAC on here before but I can't find it. I recall Nick Wa posting a vivid description of the Silverstone stage (which was not just the race circuit, as it had been at the end of the 68 event).

Entry list (for some reason I can't get all 3 pages to post together:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[Tim Murray]

I've a feeling we have discussed 69 RAC on here before but I can't find it. I recall Nick Wa posting a vivid description of the Silverstone stage (which was not just the race circuit, as it had been at the end of the 68 event).

This one, probably:

...

Started at the paddock gate, can see others doing a double slalom along the main straight, oh my gawd this is a bit Micky Mouse just for the tele. So start and do the slalom bit and left along the pit road, exit and start to move left for a good line into Copse. Shouted at "keep right"!! Spot an arrow on the tiny wall that used to run round the inside of Copse, so now set off on the oldest grand prix circuit ('48) down the Copse to Club runway. meet the club circuit (Beckett's to Woodcote runway) turn left, hairpin right at Beckett's get on to Hangar straight and start to build up to a reasonable speed, urgent "left left!". Spot another pesky little arrow, across the grass straight for the earth bank, a left arrow on the bank so follow the bank back towards Beckett's. A gap appears in the bank so duck out into the spectator area and right onto the gravel/dirt road down to Stowe. Now Stowe round the back of the grandstand and Club to follow become very fast interesting corners with the wider radius and loose surface. Up towards Abbey and back to Club on the circuit proper through another hole in bank, just before Club left into the infield on a little piece of concrete probably never before or since used in anger. A quick glance round the countryside (farmland) revealed little arrows on sticks everywhere so no hope of planning a route, so just squirt up the narrow ribbon of greasy concrete to the next arrow and turn and repeat the process. There where so many of these old dispersal points and ammo dumps I lost sensual awareness so can no longer remember how we negotiated the farm to arrive at the finish near the paddock entry bridge.

and here's Nick's description of his 1969 Escort:

I read in "Motor Sport" last night the Lotus Cortina described as "the world's first homologation special", well the Escort became its younger cousin. Escorts were originally marketed in the U.K. in 1100 (1098cc) & 1300 versions (the smaller capacity versions were produced for specific European markets for taxation reasons).
I wanted a competitive car for 1969 to use in Eastern Europe so I bought a very early production "Tin Can". Now for home internationals it wasn't productive to beat your head against the might of Boreham, so which class was the weakest? Joe Lowrey suggested to me that the 1100 class was the one to go for.

Thanks to creative homologation buy two 1100 badges and fit, hey presto you have created a rolling 1100 very cheaply! Actually smaller rear drums had to be fitted. Now this was pre Mexico days and the Luton Motor Company were offering 1500 cc Escort conversions so a source for a cheap 1098 engine (I think 40 quid). But you need more umph to beat 950 Cooper Ss, Peugots and Alfa Suds, so to the expensive bit a visit to Ralph Broad.

Now came the hard part whilst homologation of engine parts had covered both racing & rallying needs for the larger capacity motors, in the case of the smaller versions it was solely aimed at winning various European & British racing championships. With what was available try as they might Broadspeed couldn't produce a tractable engine despite many hours on the dyno. So I've got what is virtually a full race engine with a very limited power band and an embarrassed but very generous Ralph charges all the labour at cost. For the record in the 1969 R.A.C. we (the late Jim Bate & I) get 2nd in class and about 31st overall with a legal 1100 which RS2000 witnessed as the scrutineers pulled it apart. I did not reckon on the Skoda to beat us but if I had been vindictive I could have had it thrown out for having a very oversize windscreen wash bottle by the co-drivers feet.

Edited by Tim Murray, 09 December 2010 - 14:44.

[BRG]

The start hotel was on the edge of the airport to the left of the fork where the Colnbrook by-pass branched off to the right and the "old" road forked left to Poyle and Colnbrook. There was a pub in the middle of the fork, the name of which escapes me (I was more familiar with The Travellers' Friend and The Jolly Waggoner, east of the airport on the A4). 1

Checking against the roadbook page that you posted, the start is definitely now the Thistle as you said. The pub on the junction was the Peggy Bedford, now demolished in favour of a filling station/McDonalds.

[RS2000]

The pub on the junction was the Peggy Bedford, now demolished in favour of a filling station/McDonalds.

Yes, of course. Thanks.

Control list:
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[/IMG]

[Nick Wa]

Having studied the 1st page of RS2000's road book I must remind you than not only is the correct weather needed for a recreation but also exact timing. Saturday morning shopping traffic in Uxbridge and Beaconsfield, ideal conditions for bedding in a new clutch when your engine is a torqueless screamer. By the time we got to Blackpool it was completely shot, if we had had encounter a traffic snarl in run in to the rest halt control we would not have made it.

[LittleBertha]

Hello Nick

We will try and make the run as close to reality as reasonable.....still a long way to go on the rebuild - I have spent the afternoon prizing parts of the rear suspension apart which had quietly fused together.

I passed on your comments on the Silverstone stage to John and he responded as follows:
My god he's got a good memory after 41 years!! I can remember going to Silverstone, which included a slalom down the pit straight, the F & S photo reminds me!!. As for the rest of the stage I haven't the faintest memory of where we went, let alone where all the arrows were!!! I have always had a fair knowledge of Silverstone layout but I wont be taking him on at Mastermind!

Best wishes

L - B

[RS2000]

Stage list:
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[/IMG]

(Of course you'd get a bit wet these days trying to follow the Kielder route of 69. Something to do with the largest man-made body of water in Europe having appeared since...)

Edited by RS2000, 12 December 2010 - 21:01.

[Nick Wa]

I wish the short time was as good as the long term memory.....I lose my keys trice daily at least.
Now there seems something odd about that Silverstone stage, in my Autosport target time is 4mins yet Clark is quickest in 6m 18s. which equates to not much over 30 mph! I must conclude that the mileage was a bit elastic also the bit along the grass back towards Becketts was a bog for about 50 yards with traction (less than walking pace) as about as good as it would be up around Wark the next morning. At least now I feel better about my poor time than I did then having seen that the great RAC was 2m 24s over.

[RS2000]

Funny how those first 3 diverse stages were all 4 minuters. All 3 were "fillers" to break up the long run to the Yorkshire forests. The 66 Gulf had run straight from Heathrow to the N.York moors with no stages. I seem to recall the next RAC (70) had a long run out too and the Renault Alpine team were all parked up outside a pub on the A1 having lunch.
I saw a photo (the first I'd ever seen from there) taken on "The Fermyn Group of Forests" on the 69 RAC on another forum last year. That showed a a muddy grass track along the side of an open field.
Fulbeck was still an RLG for Cranwell then and, from what "our" crew reported, the stage used a lot of the WW2 "spectacle" dispersals. Just as well I provided them with an official map of it....ahem, no notes of course...

Edited by RS2000, 13 December 2010 - 20:07.