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Bobsy SR3


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#1 Ralf Pickel

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 12:44

I have also posted this question on another forum - but maybe someone here might know a bit more about these cars.
Has this type of racecar - Bobsy SR3 - ever been raced somewhere than in the USA ?
Would a Bobsy with either Ford or Lotus TC engine (other than the single version with a Corvair engine) be eligible for races/series in Europe and FIA HTP eligible ?
Any answers would be highly appreciated.
Thank you in advance for any help.

Ralf

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#2 sblick

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 12:59

I have also posted this question on another forum - but maybe someone here might know a bit more about these cars.
Has this type of racecar - Bobsy SR3 - ever been raced somewhere than in the USA ?
Would a Bobsy with either Ford or Lotus TC engine (other than the single version with a Corvair engine) be eligible for races/series in Europe and FIA HTP eligible ?
Any answers would be highly appreciated.
Thank you in advance for any help.

Ralf


I helped a friend restore a Bobsy and race it in nostalgia races here in the States but don't know what type it was. I will email him so i can be refreshed on the type. The engine was definitiely a twin cam Cosworth motor though if that helps you.

#3 Ralf Pickel

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 13:04

Thank you for that answer.
The main question is - has this type been used/raced internationally or in USA only ?

#4 sblick

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 13:08

Thank you for that answer.
The main question is - has this type been used/raced internationally or in USA only ?



Try this website http://66.7.221.34/~...bsy/history.htm

#5 Ralf Pickel

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 13:19

Ah - thank you for that link.
Quick looking through it I found another link http://www.racingspo...ults/Bobsy.html
It shows one car as DNA in the Guards Trophy 1965, driver was meant to be a W.S. Gubelman.
Edit - was a SR2 with 1098 cc Ford, no SR3...

Edited by Ralf Pickel, 10 December 2010 - 13:22.


#6 Bloggsworth

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 16:21

Gubelman (I will check if it was he) brought his Bobsy over to the UK in 1964 or 65, it struck me as a Lotus 23 with an, I'm pretty sure, aluminium tube chassis - At the time I was spannering Paul Rendle's F3 Cooper and the Bobsy was parked chez Rendle (the parents, that is) while he worked on it before he went racing. For the life of me I can't remember which engine, but I can't bring to mind a twin-cam, so I suspect a 1 litre or 1.1 litre Ford. Have no idea how Paul knew him, unless they were at Oxford studying geography, or met when Paul raced an MG TC.

#7 pete53

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 17:30

Gubelman (I will check if it was he) brought his Bobsy over to the UK in 1964 or 65, it struck me as a Lotus 23 with an, I'm pretty sure, aluminium tube chassis - At the time I was spannering Paul Rendle's F3 Cooper and the Bobsy was parked chez Rendle (the parents, that is) while he worked on it before he went racing. For the life of me I can't remember which engine, but I can't bring to mind a twin-cam, so I suspect a 1 litre or 1.1 litre Ford. Have no idea how Paul knew him, unless they were at Oxford studying geography, or met when Paul raced an MG TC.

Yes, 1965. There is a picture of Bill Gubelman in the car at a Brands clubbie in May of that year in Autosport (May 7 issue 1965). The car had a 1.1 Ford engine.
Pete

#8 Ralf Pickel

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 17:48

Thank you both for your informations.
So, at least a SR2 has been raced outside the US.

#9 r.atlos

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 18:45

There has also been a SR-3 outside the US - albeit a bit "outside period".

Kenneth H. Sellers from Rodenbach (there are many "Rodenbachs" in Germany, but I suppose it's the one near Kaiserslautern as there is quite an important US Military base) used to race a SR-3 with 1300 cc Renault Gordini engine between 1973 and 1976 in a number of International events in Germany.

#10 r.atlos

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 18:48

- 01/07/1973 Finthen (HMSC), # 51 (Bobsy Renault Gordini); DNS
- 26/08/1973 Hockenheim (AvD-Preis der Nationen), #283 (called a Vanguard ?); 3rd <1300 cc
- 09/09/1973 Finthen (ADAC), #140 (again called a Vanguard); 2nd <1300 cc

More to follow ...

#11 Ralf Pickel

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 20:37

Very interesting - thank you !
Too bad the SR3´s have not been around in period...

#12 Bloggsworth

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 21:25

Paul is getting old, he can't actually remember the visit, but remembers Gubelman (who he thought was too posh for us! Maybe for me, most are), and doesn't think it was him. I must say, I was under the impression that it was the constructor of the car who brought it over, which I understood was named after Bob/Bobby and 1964 seems more likely to me - So unless there were 2 people making Bobsys, or he only did club races....

Edited by Bloggsworth, 10 December 2010 - 21:26.


#13 r.atlos

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 23:11

Here comes the rest:

- 02/06/1974 Finthen (HMSC), # 45 (now as Bobsy SR 3), 2nd <1300 cc
- 25/08/1974 Hockenheim (Preis des AC der Schweiz), # 63, 2nd
- 15/09/1974 Ulm-Mengen, # ?, 4th

- 04/05/1975 Sembach, # 117, DNF
- 25/05/1975 Hockenheim (Int. Rundstreckenrennen des AC der Schweiz), # 100, no results available
- 06/07/1975 Hockenheim (Preis der Stadt Karlsruhe), # ? (now as "Vanguard Bobsy"), 1st
- 24/08/1975 Finthen (ADAC), # 8 (now as "Vanguard Bobsy Renault"), 1st

- 23/05/1976 Hockenheim (HMSC), # 31 (again as "Vanguard Bobsy Renault"), DNA / DNS / DNF ?
- 03/07/1976 Hockenheim (Preis der Stadt Karlsruhe), # 1 DNS


#14 grimeheel

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 00:30

The Bobsy's were designed and built by Jerry Mong. The Bobsy name was Jerry's favorite uncle's nickname. So said one of the original owners of a Bobsy mk 1 (Allyn Hier) in a recent interview. For more info Google "Bobsy Sports Racer Registry".

#15 RJE

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 09:03

Looking at this from a slightly different angle. If this type of car ran in an international race in period irrespective of where in the world, surely it would be eligable for FIA/HTP papers. An SR3 was entered in the 1966 Players 200 at Mosport in Canada, and that must have been an international event. Just look at the entry list.

#16 Terry O'Neil

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 09:59

I have also posted this question on another forum - but maybe someone here might know a bit more about these cars.
Has this type of racecar - Bobsy SR3 - ever been raced somewhere than in the USA ?
Would a Bobsy with either Ford or Lotus TC engine (other than the single version with a Corvair engine) be eligible for races/series in Europe and FIA HTP eligible ?
Any answers would be highly appreciated.
Thank you in advance for any help.

Ralf



Hi Ralf,
I do not pretend to know anything about the Bobsy cars, but for what it is worth, three appeared as Bobsy Vanguard models at the Bahamas Speed Weeks in 1966 in the Formula Vee races.
One was driven by Denise McCluggage, another by G Colot and the other by C Freeman / G Kerr
I imagine all three cars would have been shipped for the races from America.
Are these the model you are refering to?
Terry

#17 Ralf Pickel

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 10:38

Thank you for the last replies - this might help.
Not sure about the Formula Vee races, but will look deeper into it.
Were those open class ? I did not read about Bobsy FV cars, only sports cars are usually listed.
But might be a good lead.

#18 pete53

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 12:36

I have just been looking on the Bobsy website and have compared the pictures there to the Autosport photo of the Gubelman car that raced in the UK in 1965, and the Gubelman car looks more like an SR2 than SR3.

#19 Terry O'Neil

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 12:54

Thank you for the last replies - this might help.
Not sure about the Formula Vee races, but will look deeper into it.
Were those open class ? I did not read about Bobsy FV cars, only sports cars are usually listed.
But might be a good lead.

Yes, Formula Vee races were for open wheel cars
Terry

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#20 Cirrus

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 18:06

I have a feeling one of our Historic FF2000 drivers has contact details for Bill Gubelman. They used to race together in Formula Atlantic. I'll email him to see.

#21 Ralf Pickel

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 08:11

I have a feeling one of our Historic FF2000 drivers has contact details for Bill Gubelman. They used to race together in Formula Atlantic. I'll email him to see.

Thank you !