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Sheene TZ 500 on eBay


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#1 mfd

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 12:42


No idea if the price indicated is realistic or not. Nice photos & looks accurately finished, any comments ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/...=item3cb3604c92


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#2 Jezza

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 13:18

Only 10 miles from my house, if only I had a spare $60k

No idea if the price indicated is realistic or not. Nice photos & looks accurately finished, any comments ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/...=item3cb3604c92



#3 mfd

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 13:54

Only 10 miles from my house, if only I had a spare $60k

You could ride it home & save on shipping :p


#4 fil2.8

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 13:59

You could ride it home & save on shipping :p


:lol: :lol: :lol: :rotfl: :lol: :lol: :lol: :up:







#5 Macca

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 15:04

Hmmm......ISTR that Sheeney rode the 1980 customer 500, which was the the 'G'? And it had a steel swinging-arm as standard? And he replaced the chassis with a Harris which used a copy of the Suzuki 'Full Floater' rear suspension.

So it looks the right colour, and it's a TZ500, but as for the rest.........

Paul M

#6 bobness

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 16:39

http://www.highsider...heene_80_01.htm

Is this the non standard one?

#7 bobness

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 16:44

http://forums.biante...h...=40&page=15

Whichever one the above post is, the top picture on the above page shows the other one.

That sounds a bit more complicated than it did in my head...

#8 picblanc

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 20:18

The worse bike he ever raced according to Bazza!

#9 fazz

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 20:38

The worse bike he ever raced according to Bazza!

In the 1980's I saw Brent Gladwin at Darley Moor on a tz 500 Yam and was told it was one of the Akai bikes although it was painted different I think it was all blue. He was flying on it perhaps someone on here could verify if it was one of the two bikes Barry had.
Mark


#10 mfd

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 21:14

He was flying on it

It might have been a dog in Sheene's opinion but he knew how to make them go. (as in to suit him)

I'm sure he ran a TZ750 possibly the same year as Akai, or one after. Bike was white & red, with a sort of Mitsui Yam colour scheme. If my memory serves, I'm sure it had yellow plates on it - not that it ran in anything other than the open class.

One Doniington meeting Barry gave all his carb settings over for Steve Henshaw to try same on Harold's 750. Hunting around the spares revealed Steve had some but nothing like the stuff Barry was on about, so he just quietly handed over a complete set for a try. Needle jets, mains, may even have been mod'd slides. We were convinced he'd acquired some special bits from Japan because they were different to stuff we'd seen it the Mikunis. Trouble was no matter how much he would have liked to say "it's better" Steve couldn't.

Ramble over  ;) :yawnface:

#11 picblanc

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 21:20

He def ran a TZ750 in the black Akai colours in 1980, I have just been watching him on it on DVD, & I have a nice pic of him on it also. :wave:

#12 LCRider

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 21:42

Maybe its the silencers but it doesn't look right to me - especially around the seat, have foiund this entry on google images

what do we think (hope it works)

http://tinyurl.com/39vsall


#13 philippe7

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 21:44

Difficult subject, yes... the "previously owned by Steve Parrish" bit on the e-bay bike could, if verified, bring a certain legitimity to the claim . If we agree basically that Barry did have 2 TZ 500's in 1980 , and that one of them was at some stage fitted into a Harris frame ( which would be the one pictured on the "biante" link with a black swingarm which doesn't look like a cantilever ) , then there could in principle still exist 2 complete machines in standard form and/or one Harris frame .

The bike on e-bay is said to "have been restored in 1994 " so it is certainly not the one I saw ( and even sat on :blush: ) in Barry's Goldcoast house in 1997 . ( pictures below, older members will have seen them already , not self-indulgence, just some evidence ! )
I would assume that one is still in Barry's family possesion. In any case, it's not the one on e-bay.

Posted Image

Posted Image

The bottom pic shows the same 500 between two 750's ( disregard the yellow plates... ) . One of those 750's was fitted into what Barry described as a "special frame" and he mentioned the bike had never raced as such. The 750 TZ was never in desperate need of an alternate chassis, in any case not as much as the 500 , therefore from what I remember of this conversation I think it is most likely that Barry built up a "show bike" with the Harris frame he had commissioned for his 500 and a spare 750 engine/wheels etc...which he had in his posession.

So that would mean that one of the original TZ's ( certanly ) and the Harris frame ( probably ) were in Barry's posession in 1997 and probably still are with his family .

This would leave possibly one machine floating around , which could (?) be the one on e-bay. I'm fairly certain that we discussed the topic a while ago and that a forum member said that one machine is/was in Ireland and that he knew the owner ?

Edited by philippe7, 19 December 2010 - 21:49.


#14 philippe7

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 21:49

I'm sure he ran a TZ750 possibly the same year as Akai, or one after. Bike was white & red, with a sort of Mitsui Yam colour scheme. If my memory serves, I'm sure it had yellow plates on it - not that it ran in anything other than the open class.


This fits perfectly with the livery in my pics above, Mike. There is this video floating around of a "race of the year" where Sheene battles with Croz and Ballington, mounted upon a white 750 TZ , it must be 1981 , so I suppose Barry re-painted his 750 white in 1981 ( from the previous year's black ) since that year he had gotten back to a factory ride on a 500 square-four which was in basically standard yamaha colours ( white and red )


#15 mfd

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 21:54

Posted Image
The bottom pic shows the same 500 between two 750's ( disregard the yellow plates... )


Philippe, that's the white 750 with yellow plates I was writing about in earlier post. Possibly from 1981 & used mainly for UK meetings where he went pot hunting & for start money - I certainly remember it being at Scarborough...big start (BS) incentive there!

Crossover there P7 ! He ran the white 750 at "National" or TV races he'd committed to in the UK. At Donington, one time it arrived in the back of a Toyota pick up. His other bikes used for the GPs that year was the Sq4 in white / dark blue / red colours

As far as I know, nothing's been sold

Edited by mfd, 16 December 2010 - 22:00.


#16 LCRider

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 22:11

More Google trawling!

Here is a very interesting article about the 1980 Olivers Mount Meeting including a classic picture of Bazzer on (presumably) a 750 Akai Yamaha

http://tinyurl.com/2w6sd73

Edited by LCRider, 16 December 2010 - 22:12.


#17 Cstonerfan

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 22:38

May I ask.
For more pictures please of Barry Sheene and his bikes, please!
Sadly there are not that many around on the net.

People selling bikes etc. and attaching Barry Sheene his name and past ownership to it without being 100% sure, is just sad and opportunistic if it is not correct or can be proven.
Luckily it seems that there is a wealth of knowledge and inside info on this subject here by forum members!

I am no expert at all on this subject but have gathered some images from various sites I like to share.
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
and one from Barry's very beginning on a "works" Yamaha.
Posted Image
**Pictures taken by to me unknown people but to good to keep them hidden**

Edited by Cstonerfan, 17 December 2010 - 00:33.


#18 philippe7

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 23:55

**Pictures taken by to me unknown people but to good to keep them hidden**


Well, that's where the trouble lies really, we are trying on this forum to keep copyright breaches to an "acceptable" level, meaning that we try (..... ) as much as we can to post personal photos, or if not state the copyright owner if known, or the source of the image, or post links to the images rather than the images themselves ( less pleasant, of course) ... bearing in mind that if you want to be strictly "legal" then you can't post anything else than private pics - but the idea is not to "steal and copy" too blatantly....well that's what I for my part try to do, anyway...

To come back to dear old Barry, there are quite a few pics on the web that you can watch, and save for your private use if you want ( I have dozens and dozens on my hard drive ...)

A good start is the great site of Manfred Mothes ( own photos ) and his Sheene page starts here:

http://www.highsider...ager/Sheene.htm

Then there's the french "Bike 70" website to which top 70's photographer François Beau has donated a huge share of his archives, the Sheene pages are there :

http://www.bike70.com/Sheene125.html
http://www.bike70.com/Sheene2.html
http://www.bike70.com/SheeneYam.html
http://www.bike70.com/SheeneN4.html

Sadly many of these are now heavily "watermarked" (due to too many having been pinched since they were posted I guess) but it's better than nothing.

That should keep you busy for a few hours :)

There are many more but the two resources above are remarkable in the sense that they are "first hand" publications.

Oh, and going by the number plates colour I think the Sonauto bike on the last pic you posted is a factory watercooled 250cc ( TD3 based ? ) from 1972 . That's Chas Mortimer on a similar bike next to him.



#19 Cstonerfan

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 00:32

My silly mistake and I should know better that green was 250 and blue was 350 cc.
Outside the picture is also Jarno Saarinen on his machine.
Thank you for the links.
I wish I did know of these before or during my my now finnished "project" of making of Barry's 1984 replica GP bike for reference!

Edited by Cstonerfan, 17 December 2010 - 00:35.


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#20 philippe7

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 00:47

Oh, so the 500 RG street machine in Barry's colours that you posted some photos of a while ago is your work? Well done :up:



#21 philippe7

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 00:51

...and while on the subject, a little more self-indulgence :blush:

Those pictures of the TR 750 got me thinking that the ghost of Barry Sheene was recently spotted in a secret warehouse in Nouméa , pondering which machine to restore first...

Posted ImagePosted Image



#22 Cstonerfan

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 00:58

oops, sorry barry!

Edited by Cstonerfan, 17 December 2010 - 01:03.


#23 Cstonerfan

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 01:01

Posted Image
Yes it is
Posted Image

Edited by Cstonerfan, 21 December 2010 - 00:00.


#24 exclubracer

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 01:26

Oh, and going by the number plates colour I think the Sonauto bike on the last pic you posted is a factory watercooled 250cc ( TD3 based ? ) from 1972 . That's Chas Mortimer on a similar bike next to him.


Hi Philippe, IIRC Barry had an a/cooled factory-supported bike in '72, only Jarno had the factory watercooled model.

Chas Mortimer's bike was the production model supplied by Danfay, the Dublin distributor.

The curve of the fairing where the radiator would have been is the deciding factor for me, I could be wrong though!!

#25 philippe7

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 05:17

You may well be right, I'm only speaking from distant memory and I'm not even able to explain the Sonauto ( french importer) signage on Barry's bike... There were quite a few more-or-less factory tweaked machines of variable specs entrusted to various European importers in 1972, and I have absolutely no first hand knowledge of the details but the general history goes that Saarinen and Sheene were the two "golden boys" of Yamaha at the start of 72 but as we all know Jarno promptly took an advantage on Bazza both on and off-track and gained the japanese engineer's trust while Barry did not and more or less quit the GP trail after a disastrous first couple of races - which caused his first split with the Yamaha factory that would need to wait until 1981 to be healed. I remember reading some stories that he complained that his "factory water cooled" machine was much slower that his personal TD2 ( or TD3) from the previous season hence my assumption that he did have a watercooled prototype at some stage...but I wouldn't bet that the bike in the pic is one .

#26 philippe7

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 06:20

I'm fairly certain that we discussed the topic a while ago and that a forum member said that one machine is/was in Ireland and that he knew the owner ?


Found it.... " a while ago" was....three and a half years ago on the original "monster" thread . The bike was in the US, and before that in Ireland.... Mo usually knows what he is talking about so if it's that same bike for sale on e-bay it could well be genuine.

For those of you who are Chaz Davies fans, there is a connection. Barry Gilsenan, the owner of Celtic Racing for whom Chaz races in the AMA series, owns the bike Sheene is pictured riding here and had it on display at Laguna recently. And yes it is 1980.

Mo.


Gilsenans bike is definitely a 500 and he bought it about a year ago from someone in Ireland.

Mo.



#27 Rennmax

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 07:44

The distribution of water- and aircooled 'works' Yamahas in '72:

250: water cooled for Barry Sheene, Rod Gould and Jarno Saarinen, air
cooled for Kent Andersson, Chas Mortimer, Hideo Kanaya and Jarno
Saarinen (at the start of the season)
350: water cooled for for Saarinen and Hideo Kanaya, air cooled for
Barry Sheene and Rod Gould

Source: Rod Gould's 'world championship trail' chapter in 'Castrol motorcycle racing manual' from '73

IIRC you can distinguish them by the different stripes on the fairings: big red for the aircooled, smaller red and blue ones for the watercooled versions

Edited by Rennmax, 17 December 2010 - 09:10.


#28 Rennmax

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 08:13

Another one by courtesy of 'Paul from Eupen'

Posted Image

Edited by Rennmax, 17 December 2010 - 09:13.


#29 exclubracer

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 08:42

The distribution of water- and aircooled 'works' Yamahas in '72:

250: water cooled for Barry Sheene, Rod Gould and Jarno Saarinen, air
cooled for Kent Andersson, Chas Mortimer, Hideo Kanaya and Jarno
Saarinen (at the start of the season)
350: water cooled for for Saarinen and Hideo Kanaya, air cooled for
Barry Sheene and Rod Gould

Source: Rod Gould's 'world championship trail' chapter in 'Castrol motorcycle racing manual' from '73

IIRC you can distinguish it fom the different stripes on the fairing: big red for the aircooled, smaller red and blue one one for the watercooled versions

Thanks for clearing that up Renn :up:

#30 mfd

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 09:50

Posted Image


Who's that behind Sheene?


#31 picblanc

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 10:01

I mailed Brent Gladwin last night & here is his reply,

Graham yes I did and yes i still do lol - my bike was one of the sheene Akai 500 bikes and is well Documented - he did always have more than 1 bike - he had 2 750's and 2 500's he then swapped to full factory bikes reverse cylinder - known as son of slug - I also bought this bike from Steve Parrish - this then went to Tony Robinson - who had it restored by George Beal - Nigel Everett did the work - it was then sold on to the current owner Wilson - also the Suzuki Sheene rode onto the BBC sports personality show when he returned to Suzuki is still at a friend of mine's - it would be very interesting to see the history of the bike on ebay because I bought Son of Slug from Steve P in the 80's with some other bikes and if there had been another TZ there at the time I would have bought it for Tony - maybe Steve purchased the bike after that and mossey did it up ? there were very few of these bikes !!!!

#32 Rennmax

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 10:03

Who's that behind Sheene?


Don't know regrettably, have the permission to show these pics here but don't have respective captions ....

#33 GD66

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 13:01

Who's that behind Sheene?



Good question ! Track's very narrow, and the helmet logo is Snoopy from the Charlie Brown comic strip, in a flying helmet.


#34 Rennmax

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 13:11

Good question ! Track's very narrow, and the helmet logo is Snoopy from the Charlie Brown comic strip, in a flying helmet.


It's Oliver's Mount, that's for sure

Here he is again, close to ánother fast one, probably not only when being lapped. Sorry for being off topic

Posted Image

By courtesy of 'Paul from Eupen'

Edit. Mick's fairing livery looks somehow familiar...

Edited by Rennmax, 17 December 2010 - 13:35.


#35 fazz

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 13:24

I mailed Brent Gladwin last night & here is his reply,

Graham yes I did and yes i still do lol - my bike was one of the sheene Akai 500 bikes and is well Documented - he did always have more than 1 bike - he had 2 750's and 2 500's he then swapped to full factory bikes reverse cylinder - known as son of slug - I also bought this bike from Steve Parrish - this then went to Tony Robinson - who had it restored by George Beal - Nigel Everett did the work - it was then sold on to the current owner Wilson - also the Suzuki Sheene rode onto the BBC sports personality show when he returned to Suzuki is still at a friend of mine's - it would be very interesting to see the history of the bike on ebay because I bought Son of Slug from Steve P in the 80's with some other bikes and if there had been another TZ there at the time I would have bought it for Tony - maybe Steve purchased the bike after that and mossey did it up ? there were very few of these bikes !!!!


Well done Graham for finding that out.

The race I saw at Darley I think Brent had just started to ride the bike but really showed Steve Mainwaring that he was going to show him that he could ride it. It was a superb race with the two of them going at each other. Ask him does he remember it.

Cheers Mark

#36 fazz

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 13:25

[quote name='exclubracer' post='4762372' date='Dec 17 2010, 08:42']
Hi Mike its Ian Bell and he was a hard charger on a 750
Mark

Edited by fazz, 17 December 2010 - 13:26.


#37 fazz

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 13:26

Thanks for clearing that up Renn :up:

Hi Mike its Ian Bell and he was a hard charger on a 750
Mark

#38 bobness

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 13:58

Indeed Ian Bell (Ian Bell M/cycles" on the fairing) and he had some good results at Scarborough around 1980.
That site is quite a piece of work and some great photos.
The Grant pic is a new one on me, I know that Reg Marshall borrowed a BS fairing once at Scarborough, but you can't tell if the above is just the fairing or the bike. Mick had a red Sid Griffiths rottweiler in 1980.
BS and Mick Grant had some mighty battles up there and it seems like there was a deal of respect between them.

I remember BS' promo pics for the 1980 season start and I'm 99% sure he had 2 500s and 2 750s at the start of the season.

Edited by bobness, 17 December 2010 - 13:59.


#39 mfd

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 14:06

It's Oliver's Mount, that's for sure...Mick's fairing livery looks somehow familiar...

I'm sure I remember Roger Marshall using a Sheene fairing at Scarborough - 1980?

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#40 picblanc

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 16:28

I'm sure I remember Roger Marshall using a Sheene fairing at Scarborough - 1980?

Its in this link posted earlier Mike, scroll down & a great shot of Reg is there.
http://www.oliversmo...20International

#41 mfd

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 17:07

Its in this link posted earlier Mike, scroll down & a great shot of Reg is there.
http://www.oliversmo...20International

I'm confused, if "fruit & veg" borrowed a fairing for the 2nd leg of the MCN Superbike race, which race is the Grant photo from? I thought BS only did one race at Scarborough that year :confused:

Edited by mfd, 17 December 2010 - 17:08.


#42 Rennmax

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 17:54

I'm confused, if "fruit & veg" borrowed a fairing for the 2nd leg of the MCN Superbike race, which race is the Grant photo from? I thought BS only did one race at Scarborough that year :confused:


There is Grant on a Honda in the background, so it's a different year I guess. Will try to find out when pic with Grant on the Yamaha was taken.

Edit: High time to put Mick's book on my shopping list...

Edited by Rennmax, 17 December 2010 - 18:19.


#43 picblanc

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 18:34

Both pics have to be from 1980 as in 1981 he was on red & white Yamahas.

#44 mfd

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 18:53

Both pics have to be from 1980 as in 1981 he was on red & white Yamahas.

Completely agree black white red only in 1980 & as far as I can see BS only raced at the September meeting.


#45 fazz

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 21:10

Not sure if it has been mentioned but Barry lent one of the TZ 500's to Bernard Murray to do the TT which was in most magazines at the time.
Mark

#46 philippe7

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 21:33

Well, if Barry only ever had 2 Akai 500 TZ's , if Brent Gladwin still has one which he has had since the 80's, if we assume the bike on e-bay is the ex-Gilsenan machine which was "restored in 94", and if we add the one which was in Barry's house in '97, that's one too many already ..... :well:

#47 dcw

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 21:33

Hi All

Just looking at Roger Marshall's book and there is a picture of Barry Sheene on a black & red TZ750 at the Brands Transatlantic meeting caption says it is 1979. (Roger on Geoarge Beale TZ750, Graham Wood Fowlers TZ750 & Randy HB Suzuki). There is also the picture of Marshall with the borrowed BS Black & Red fairing caption says Scarborough 1980 (Mick Grant in same picture on Honda Britain bike).

David

Edited by dcw, 17 December 2010 - 21:34.


#48 philippe7

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 21:36

Barry Sheene on a black & red TZ750 at the Brands Transatlantic meeting caption says it is 1979.


Probably a caption mistake, Barry was still a factory Suzuki rider in 1979..... the black and red machines were definitely in 1980 .


#49 philippe7

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 21:40

There is Grant on a Honda in the background, so it's a different year I guess. Will try to find out when pic with Grant on the Yamaha was taken.


Just guessing, but the pic of Grant on a Sheene Yamaha could be from the 500cc race , hence on one of those 500 TZ's , while the other pics on a Honda could be from the "big" , unlimited race ?

edit : the meeting report says Grant won the 500 race on his Suzuki RG, but he may have tried the TZ in practice?

Edited by philippe7, 17 December 2010 - 21:47.


#50 fil2.8

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 21:40

Probably a caption mistake, Barry was still a factory Suzuki rider in 1979..... the black and red machines were definitely in 1980 .


Correct , Philippe :up: