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Pastor Maldonado Thread [Merged]


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#1301 Collective

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 14:10

Hopefully he won't take too long or else he's become a national embarrassment in Venezuela and PDVSA cuts the umbilical cord.

Nah, Venezuela is already under lots and lots of embarrassment. Pastor wouldn't even be noticed.

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#1302 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 14:25

The onboard Q3 lap of Pastor from singapore is on the Official F1 site :)

http://www.formula1....uid=2012092314O

#1303 Clatter

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 14:27

I think he has potential. Afterall, you can take a young, fast guy and get him to slow down just a touch to quit crashing; but you can't take a slow guy and make him fast*. Pastor will mature, and improve. Hell, he might turn out to be pretty damn good.






*(I know this because I am the slow guy)


Possibly, but take away his funding and do you currently see any other team signing him?


#1304 discover23

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 14:35

Possibly, but take away his funding and do you currently see any other team signing him?

I think so. If you notice last year he beat Rubens and did not crash as much as this year. He is going through a bad slump. Similar to what happened to Lewis last year. I think that he will recover ..

#1305 Craven Morehead

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 01:35

Possibly, but take away his funding and do you currently see any other team signing him?


Yes I do, actually. He is clearly quick. But regardless, the funding is there too, along with a real turn of speed. Not a bad deal at all.

#1306 Igorr

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 02:14

Best thing is now after all those mistakes he knows that he was wrong and that he needs to improve if he wants to become competitive and fight for wins and possibly the championship. It will be interesting how Williams will pan out next year, but i think that they will have a very strong car considering their pace in singapore and barcelona, two totally different tracks which means that with the right setup, Williams can win everywhere.

#1307 ViMaMo

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 05:47

I hope Pastor is rewarded for cleaner driving, that way we do not get to see him penalised or dumped in the end.


#1308 Anderis

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 06:51

but i think that they will have a very strong car considering their pace in singapore and barcelona, two totally different tracks which means that with the right setup, Williams can win everywhere.

Not really everywhere. This car doesn't seem to like long straights- chicanes combo and it wasn't very competitive in Canada and Monza. They need to change the car very much before they want to be able to challenge for podiums on this kind of tracks.

#1309 ViMaMo

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 08:02

We have seen similar routes of evolution, cars having strengths at certain circuits going on to evolve into much stronger and all round package. Williams is on right path. Hope we will see Williams consistently on podium next year.

#1310 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 10:10

The FW34 is competitive anywhere in clear air, in traffic it's just another midfield car apparently. The long run pace in Canada was similar to Lewis' McLaren but the quali killed a big chance there.

#1311 A.Fant

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 10:56

The FW34 is competitive anywhere in clear air, in traffic it's just another midfield car apparently. The long run pace in Canada was similar to Lewis' McLaren but the quali killed a big chance there.


The FW34 showed great long run pace during FP2 in Canada, I remember doing a comparison between the drivers and it actually indicated that Williams would have the best race pace of all! But it was never there in the race even in clear air, and I was bitterly disappointed.

Edited by A.Fant, 27 September 2012 - 10:56.


#1312 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 11:02

The FW34 showed great long run pace during FP2 in Canada, I remember doing a comparison between the drivers and it actually indicated that Williams would have the best race pace of all! But it was never there in the race even in clear air, and I was bitterly disappointed.

Yup! it was a disappointment as well in the end of Q2 seeing pastor doing a purple S1 and a green S2 to bin it at the WoC. looking at the deg of other guys at the end of the race shows a win was possible.

#1313 Anderis

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:38

I don't know about what are you talking about. In Canada, between laps 10th and 42nd Maldonado wasn't in traffic (less than 1,5 seconds from the car in front that wasn't pulling away from him) by even one single lap. On lap 10th he was one place and 2 seconds behind Ricciardo and Ricciardo managed to stay in front of him to lap 58 and his second pit stop. Despite not being in traffic, Pastor lost 4 seconds between laps 10 and 28 to Raikkonen, who was on simillar strategy and has finished the race with unspectacular 8th. From lap 30 to 35 he couldn't even close the cap to Vergne who was on much older tyres.

Not to mention that Senna struggled to beat even Caterham in this race and this was his worst race of the year by some margin.

It's clear that FW34 hadn't even a top5 potential in Canada. Challenging Raikkonen for 8th was the best Maldonado could've done if he didn't crash in Q2. I'm not sure even this could succeed.

#1314 A.Fant

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 15:20

I don't know about what are you talking about. In Canada, between laps 10th and 42nd Maldonado wasn't in traffic (less than 1,5 seconds from the car in front that wasn't pulling away from him) by even one single lap. On lap 10th he was one place and 2 seconds behind Ricciardo and Ricciardo managed to stay in front of him to lap 58 and his second pit stop. Despite not being in traffic, Pastor lost 4 seconds between laps 10 and 28 to Raikkonen, who was on simillar strategy and has finished the race with unspectacular 8th. From lap 30 to 35 he couldn't even close the cap to Vergne who was on much older tyres.

Not to mention that Senna struggled to beat even Caterham in this race and this was his worst race of the year by some margin.

It's clear that FW34 hadn't even a top5 potential in Canada. Challenging Raikkonen for 8th was the best Maldonado could've done if he didn't crash in Q2. I'm not sure even this could succeed.


Indeed! I really thought Pastor would storm up the field when he got some clear air, but he couldn't even keep up with the Toro Rossos. The pace from FP2 never materialized in the race, and instead it was Perez that stormed through the field.

#1315 SpeedFanatic

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 16:12

I think the problem in Canada was the huge diference in track temps between FP2 and the race. IIRC track temps in FP2 was about 22 degrees whereas in the races it was 45 degrees. IMO that was what killed the performance of the FW34 during the race.

#1316 flavio81

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 17:13

I think so. If you notice last year he beat Rubens and did not crash as much as this year. He is going through a bad slump. Similar to what happened to Lewis last year. I think that he will recover ..


Well my recollection of that season is very different. What i saw is that he had clearly better qualyfing pace than Rubens, but not race pace, and did way too many mistakes.

He needs to improve his racecraft and be more cautious.

#1317 marcoferrari

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 17:19

I think so. If you notice last year he beat Rubens and did not crash as much as this year. He is going through a bad slump. Similar to what happened to Lewis last year. I think that he will recover ..


?


#1318 Baddoer

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 15:53

Pastor's P2 lap onboard is on formula1.com
What a crazy lap it was

#1319 R2D2

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 12:41

Can anyone explain why McLaren didn't pick up Pastor to replace Lewis? [That question started off in my mind as being quite sarcastic, and not a little bit rhetorical, but has grown up to be an honest inquiry.]

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#1320 Francesc

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 13:39

?


Yes he did, only bad luck prevented him from finishing higher on the standings.

#1321 DanardiF1

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 16:09

Can anyone explain why McLaren didn't pick up Pastor to replace Lewis? [That question started off in my mind as being quite sarcastic, and not a little bit rhetorical, but has grown up to be an honest inquiry.]



Maybe because he's the only person who sees the stewards more than Lewis did...

#1322 Misk

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 20:52

Not sure if this has been mentioned here, but the Venezuelan presidential elections are in 4 days and it is looking like it is going to be a very close race*. With Maldonado effectively backed by the government as well as being personal friend of Hugo Chávez, could a loss for the United Socialist Party on Sunday throw his 2013 drive into dispute?


* http://www.guardian....avez?intcmp=239

Edited by Misk, 03 October 2012 - 21:19.


#1323 Peat

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:21

I see he's put his disappointing points tally down to 'some bad luck with the stewards'.

Interesting.

#1324 Cool Beans

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:49

"We had a lot of bad luck this year, not only with problems with the car but with the stewards."


Maldonado has had 'bad luck with the stewards'. Interesting. Still hasn't learnt anything it seems and it's all always somebody else's fault, god he really is as stupid as he looks. The good news is if he continues like he has and sees no fault in his driving the championship is still wide open.

#1325 Vickyy

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 08:00

I see he's put his disappointing points tally down to 'some bad luck with the stewards'.

Interesting.

I am not a part his hate club, but these point blank denials certainly would swell the number.

#1326 William Hunt

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 08:12

...could a loss for the United Socialist Party on Sunday throw his 2013 drive into dispute?


How many drivers can score a pole position and a win in a Williams? He may have been involved in many accidents but... he has proven that he can win races and was fabulous in Singapore. If he can calm down, decrease his driving errors and be less punished by the stewards (imho he wasn't always fairly punished) then he is a driver that many teams will want, even without money. Not many drivers have got the pace that he does.

Edited by William Hunt, 04 October 2012 - 08:12.


#1327 Hans V

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 08:42

How many drivers can score a pole position and a win in a Williams? He may have been involved in many accidents but... he has proven that he can win races and was fabulous in Singapore. If he can calm down, decrease his driving errors and be less punished by the stewards (imho he wasn't always fairly punished) then he is a driver that many teams will want, even without money. Not many drivers have got the pace that he does.

Several I'd guess. Like Sauber, I suspect that the Williams car has been let down by its drivers. Maldonado, blindingly quick as he can be, seems too inconsistent for a top driver - and Senna, as much as I'd like him to succeed, is simply not good enough. Neither of them seem able to to make much progress when racing other cars, except bump into them. They have, however, not gained much help from Williams usual conservative strategies. I can't understand, when they have a car that is very kind to the tyres, why they don't go for more one-stoppers, like Sauber. Based on some of Maldonados qualifying runs, kindness to its tyres and long stint pace I believe the FW34 is better than the Force India, Mercedes, probably Sauber, should be 5th in the constructors championship and not far behind Renault in fourth.

#1328 Little Leaf

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:16

Maldonado has had 'bad luck with the stewards'. Interesting. Still hasn't learnt anything it seems and it's all always somebody else's fault, god he really is as stupid as he looks. The good news is if he continues like he has and sees no fault in his driving the championship is still wide open.


Looking at the Silverstone and Hungary penalties I would say they were very harsh.

Monaco and a couple of others on the other hand were just plain brain fade moments for which he could have been punished more severely than he was

#1329 Mauseri

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:21

Funny that after his win he talked about the champion ship and then failed to score a point. Some sort of a record. Hope he would get his head straight and score some sodiums.

#1330 goldenboy

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 03:59

Hugo Chavez re-elected...

#1331 OSX

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 04:05

Hugo Chavez re-elected...

And with that Maldonado. Good thing for Williams to keep all those PDVSA millions.


#1332 Fastcake

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:56

Hugo Chavez re-elected...


Unsurprisingly.

I feel somewhat remiss in not giving Maldonado the credit due in driving a clean race into the points at long last. Why he threw it all away after the Spanish Grand Prix I don't know, but I'll be willing to forgive him if he keeps it up.

#1333 wj_gibson

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 13:33

A little part of me has sometimes wondered if Ferrari might not consider the potential of all those petrol dollars.

#1334 THE "driverider"

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 13:54

A little part of me has sometimes wondered if Ferrari might not consider the potential of all those petrol dollars.

Wouldn't mind seeing that, I'd pick him over Hulkenberg.

#1335 jee

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 14:04

He may be too fast not to be too close to Alonsos speed and on the other hand not consistent enough to score regular points for the WCC.

#1336 ali_M

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 14:22

Wouldn't mind seeing that, I'd pick him over Hulkenberg.


It would seem that he has changed. I don't know if it's lasting change. Too early to tell yet. I wouldn't pick him over Hulkenburg.

#1337 johnmhinds

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 14:30

You know it has got bad for a driver when him not crashing for a couple of races makes him a changed man. :p

If they don't think Perez was ready for a Ferrari seat then Maldanado has no hope of getting that drive.

#1338 wj_gibson

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 15:18

You know it has got bad for a driver when him not crashing for a couple of races makes him a changed man. :p

If they don't think Perez was ready for a Ferrari seat then Maldanado has no hope of getting that drive.


That doesn't alter the fact that, when out front at Barcelona, he soaked up the pressure of 20-odd laps with Alonso glued to his rear wing as though he was on a country drive, even though he must have been aware that it could be his only chance of winning a race all year. I think he's got more natural speed that anyone bar Hamilton, if only he could sort out his brain fades.

Edited by wj_gibson, 08 October 2012 - 15:19.


#1339 ali_M

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 16:24

That doesn't alter the fact that, when out front at Barcelona, he soaked up the pressure of 20-odd laps with Alonso glued to his rear wing as though he was on a country drive, even though he must have been aware that it could be his only chance of winning a race all year. I think he's got more natural speed that anyone bar Hamilton, if only he could sort out his brain fades.


I think we underestimate the profundity of the Pirelli influence during that time of the year.

Even Maldonado allowed it to get to his head. He knows no other F1 than Formula Pirelli.

The rest of the year has been very sobering for him, I'm sure. He was quite bullish after that win. I think he now appreciates just how fortuitous it was and that it could not have happened under normal circumstances with the tires. I can bet that after that win he was not at all thinking that things would have turned out the way that they have. Time is the reality checker for those who pay attention and not revel in too much reminiscing over strange situations.

Drivers feel a lot better with multiple championships. It gets rid of the fluke or luck factor.

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#1340 wj_gibson

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 16:31

I think we underestimate the profundity of the Pirelli influence during that time of the year.

Even Maldonado allowed it to get to his head. He knows no other F1 than Formula Pirelli.

The rest of the year has been very sobering for him, I'm sure. He was quite bullish after that win. I think he now appreciates just how fortuitous it was and that it could not have happened under normal circumstances with the tires. I can bet that after that win he was not at all thinking that things would have turned out the way that they have. Time is the reality checker for those who pay attention and not revel in too much reminiscing over strange situations.

Drivers feel a lot better with multiple championships. It gets rid of the fluke or luck factor.


I don't really accept this thing about Maldonado "fluking" the win at Barcelona. Doubtless the Williams hit the sweet spot with the tyres better than any other car that weekend, but his team-mate was nowhere and it would have been very easy for an inexperienced driver to abuse the tyres in the final stint, whereas Maldonado controlled them exceptionally well - better, indeed, than did Alonso at the event in question. So there's some serious raw potential there. Had he not made a sow's ear of the middle of the season and had instead steadily racked up the points I suspect he would have been a serious contender for a top seat by now.

#1341 BoxToOvertake

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 16:37

if he scored points int he next 5 races , i will add him to my young talents fanfare

#1342 ali_M

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 16:39

I don't really accept this thing about Maldonado "fluking" the win at Barcelona. Doubtless the Williams hit the sweet spot with the tyres better than any other car that weekend, but his team-mate was nowhere and it would have been very easy for an inexperienced driver to abuse the tyres in the final stint, whereas Maldonado controlled them exceptionally well - better, indeed, than did Alonso at the event in question. So there's some serious raw potential there. Had he not made a sow's ear of the middle of the season and had instead steadily racked up the points I suspect he would have been a serious contender for a top seat by now.



It's not Williams that hit the sweet spot, but Maldonado in his Williams. These tires have been quite beneficial to some driver reputations while it has been destructive for others.

Schumi got it right. I agree with him that Black Gold has been a major irritation since his return, especially this year. Only a few should struggle with the tires while most are OK. It shouldn't be the other way around.

Anyway..... Things are a lot more consistent now. Funny that the freakish wins have disappeared with that. It will take a while for us to appreciate the helter skelter nature of F1 results earlier this year.

#1343 montoyasminion

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 16:39

A little part of me has sometimes wondered if Ferrari might not consider the potential of all those petrol dollars.

I don't think Shell would allow PDVSA logos to appear on the car. And no way on Earth would a PDVSA partnership with Ferrari be as fruitful as the one they've had with Shell for the past 50 years.

So no, Maldonado will never race for Ferrari. Ever.

#1344 Mr.Wayne

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 16:40

I don't really accept this thing about Maldonado "fluking" the win at Barcelona. Doubtless the Williams hit the sweet spot with the tyres better than any other car that weekend, but his team-mate was nowhere and it would have been very easy for an inexperienced driver to abuse the tyres in the final stint, whereas Maldonado controlled them exceptionally well - better, indeed, than did Alonso at the event in question. So there's some serious raw potential there. Had he not made a sow's ear of the middle of the season and had instead steadily racked up the points I suspect he would have been a serious contender for a top seat by now.

That is an interesting point you made there.
Personally, I have moved from rating Pastor as "a mediocre pay driver" to a "work in progress" let's say. I now believe that he is fast, but temperamental and can shut his brain off very easily (just like JPM); but I also believe that when he keep his head down, he puts the car where it shouldn't be (Singapore, Japan are just two recent examples of that). However, I think he has a lot of baggage when one is speaking of a top team: in a way, he "belongs" to Chavez' media, and hence PDVSA sponsorship would follow him around.
Would a top team be happy to be associated with who can be described, in the best case as a delusional figure (in the worst as a crazy dictator) that is Chavez? Would a top team be willing to let their image being used for political propaganda purposes?
I think that with Williams they didn't have much choice, but I also suspect that the question mark about his seat for next year can be due to that. Now, think of McLaren taking him instead of Perez, and appearing in PDVSA commercial and official political propaganda in Venezuela because of that... Somehow, cannot see the guys at Woking too excited with *that* sort of PR work

#1345 wj_gibson

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 17:21

That is an interesting point you made there.
Personally, I have moved from rating Pastor as "a mediocre pay driver" to a "work in progress" let's say. I now believe that he is fast, but temperamental and can shut his brain off very easily (just like JPM); but I also believe that when he keep his head down, he puts the car where it shouldn't be (Singapore, Japan are just two recent examples of that). However, I think he has a lot of baggage when one is speaking of a top team: in a way, he "belongs" to Chavez' media, and hence PDVSA sponsorship would follow him around.
Would a top team be happy to be associated with who can be described, in the best case as a delusional figure (in the worst as a crazy dictator) that is Chavez? Would a top team be willing to let their image being used for political propaganda purposes?
I think that with Williams they didn't have much choice, but I also suspect that the question mark about his seat for next year can be due to that. Now, think of McLaren taking him instead of Perez, and appearing in PDVSA commercial and official political propaganda in Venezuela because of that... Somehow, cannot see the guys at Woking too excited with *that* sort of PR work


Straying off the point, but Venezuela has had fair elections throuout the entirety of Chavez's reign. He could have been voted out of office.

#1346 Jimisgod

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 17:33

I'm still not sure of Pastor. We don't know how good the Williams is. Bruno lost badly against Petrov, who is matching Heikki but was thumped by Kubica before him. Bruno wasn't really better than Chandok even.

I'd struggle to rate Pastor better than Kobayashi, who delivers more often in the races in a car that is a fair amount more 'erratic' in performance at certain tracks. Bruno is possibly the 2nd worst driver on the grid, after Narain, whereas Perez is a future champion if we keep these tyres. The gap between Pastor and Senna is only 1 point more than that between Di Resta and Hulkenburg, who are both fairly good.

Judging by qualifying performance Williams could potentially be better than Sauber, and Pastor was not that much better than Rubens last year. Maldonado is beating Senna by only a small margin in the points, and the vast majority of that is down to his own making.

The Sauber has only been able to match leaders on the same strategy on performance at one race, Japan, and both Pastor and Kamui blew their fast qualifying in Spa. The Williams ran at the front in Spain, Valencia, Singapore on the same strategy as everyone else.

Edited by Jimisgod, 08 October 2012 - 17:37.


#1347 kenny

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 17:42

Bruno lost badly against Petrov

???


#1348 Jimisgod

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 17:48

???


I count only one time Senna beat Petrov in their 8 races together. Twice Petrov was wiped out by other cars (Korea he was to blame......) but he was still in front.

#1349 Mr.Wayne

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 18:07

Straying off the point, but Venezuela has had fair elections throuout the entirety of Chavez's reign. He could have been voted out of office.

Tad off-topic: Not really fair per se: people in public positions (nowadays, most of venezuelans) being asked to vote for Chavez in order to maintain their jobs, the government keeping track of where do those people vote, and correlating with the pro-chavez votes, etc... Talking with a few Venezuelans here and there usually paints a darker image of their "fair" elections. I even have known people who, according to them, have had to leave the country under threat after not voting for Chavez in previous elections (the vote is supposed to be secret, but...). He is not at level with Assad yet, but when you like to hang out with the likes of Iran, North Korea, Libya (he gave Gaddaffi the biggest honor confered by the Venezuelan government), while at the same time keep repressing, threatening and silencing those inside your country who think differently doesn't put him that far either.

#1350 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 21:30

Grosjean certainly stole Maldonado's thunder recently. Silent yet solid 8th :up: