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Pastor Maldonado Thread [Merged]


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#201 flyer121

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 13:21

Congratulations to Venezuela..Hats-off to Pastor! This is a good way of answering those critics talking about pay drivers..maybe that was his way of getting into F1 but he definitely proved that he deserves to be in F1.


+1
I dont think that there are really any truly pay drivers in F1 except for NK.

Congrats to Pastor and hop that he goes on to have many more wins ..... he drive beautifully and took Aus 12.as a lesson.

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#202 stanga

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 14:45

Chavez is not a dictator. Nor a lunatic.


Of course not. He's a perfectly balanced individual and not an El Presidente for life.

#203 GlenP

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 15:02

Of course not. He's a perfectly balanced individual and not an El Presidente for life.

Venezuela is a democracy.

Chavez is a hero to millions of ordinary people; but not to millions of elite rich western oil companies.

#204 stanga

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 15:11

Venezuela is a democracy.

Chavez is a hero to millions of ordinary people; but not to millions of elite rich western oil companies.


East Germany was a democracy. And just to make doubly sure, they included such a word in the name.

However I take my cues from actual facts rather than romantic socialist nonsense. When El Presidente effectively changes the constitution to allow him to be El Presidente for life, volumes are spoken.

I'm an avid viewer of his weekly televisual appearances... called Hola Presidente or some such.

#205 Craven Morehead

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 15:15

He's shown great pace, tenacity and his fair share of poor decisions in his first 1.25 seasons in F1 but this weekend he was supreme and flawless as were his Williams team! Well done Pastor and Williams! :clap:


Also he has never lacked for confidence. He's quick and mentally strong. We might as well get used to him because I think he's going to be around for a while. Well done indeed. :up:

#206 GlenP

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 15:15

Meh. Whatever. I know why Western Governments don't like him, and why we get such strong propaganda against him.

#207 Siperoth

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 15:20

Meh. Whatever. I know why Western Governments don't like him, and why we get such strong propaganda against him.


Personally i don't see how western countries ain't dictatorships. They pretty much are. They give you limited choice from puppets and their puppeteers that control the media and brainwash the shit out of you. They are just illusions of democracy.



#208 sheogorath

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 05:36

East Germany was a democracy. And just to make doubly sure, they included such a word in the name.

However I take my cues from actual facts rather than romantic socialist nonsense. When El Presidente effectively changes the constitution to allow him to be El Presidente for life, volumes are spoken.

I'm an avid viewer of his weekly televisual appearances... called Hola Presidente or some such.

Where does in the constitution it says "Presidente For life"?.

The only thing that was changed was the removal of term limits, which doesn't just affect the President position but also that of Governors and Mayors, a lot of which are run by Opposition members. So, they have as much of a chance of being a "for life" anything as Chavez does, provided they all win their corresponding elections.

Quite simple, really, and hardly "actual facts" on your part.

Enough Off-topic, though.

Edited by sheogorath, 16 May 2012 - 05:37.


#209 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 06:04

Personally i don't see how western countries ain't dictatorships. They pretty much are. They give you limited choice from puppets and their puppeteers that control the media and brainwash the shit out of you. They are just illusions of democracy.

Anyhow they do maintain (or more specifically are in the very privelleged position compared to other countries to be able to demand that) the idea that if you are an employed baker you should be paid enough money to buy a house, brand new car (not a Bentley though) etc... rather than only the owner of the bakery chain being able to afford such and the baker making do with a very basic flat and a small motorcycle. In such a case, perhaps less persons are inclined to complain? No doubt these dicatator parties still do much to offend many persons either left, right, farmers, environmentalists, prolife, prochoice, against taxation, for taxation, for coal seam gas exploration on farming land, against coal seam gas exploration on farming land, pro same sex marriage, against same sex marriage or otherwise!

I don't see it being a dictatorship myself... You have a public service of qualified (if overpaid) people who actually run the government, and then you have the layer of government which tinkers with it, and has occasionally sensible or sometimes extremely stupid ideas. Hopefully not so many stupid ones as to bankrupt the country. :) reporting on this you have medias outlets which are overtly and transparently biased one way or the other (no brainwashing there, quite easy to see the spin).

It true that the major parties and other candidates are giving significant taxpayer funded running money but is based on proportion of the vote, and anybody can start a new party win 5% of the vote and receives funding towards their next campaign. Eventually a very small party with one issue platform such as "no pokies" (electronic slot machine) or "dignity for disability" can win a seat or even two.

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 16 May 2012 - 06:16.


#210 GlenP

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:47

Where does in the constitution it says "Presidente For life"?.

The only thing that was changed was the removal of term limits, which doesn't just affect the President position but also that of Governors and Mayors, a lot of which are run by Opposition members. So, they have as much of a chance of being a "for life" anything as Chavez does, provided they all win their corresponding elections.

Quite simple, really, and hardly "actual facts" on your part.

Enough Off-topic, though.

I absolutely agree, and I strongly dislike the way we just swallow our propaganda.

Even if he makes it possible to be president for life, he still has to be voted president! He isn't enacting law to guarantee his presidency, only to guarantee that it won't be taken away regardless of popularity. And none of that has anything to do with his popularity with the West, esp the US.

#211 rayburn

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:04

Hey guys, please keep politics out of this thread, we will never get any agreement on that subject, and it just derails the thread.

#212 GlenP

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:10

Hey guys, please keep politics out of this thread, we will never get any agreement on that subject, and it just derails the thread.

The only reason agreement would be hard to get is the power of propaganda. The subject got raised in the first place as a way to call into question Maldonado's quality - "backed by a dictator" - the implication being that if there is enough money and power there then anyone can get the job if they are favoured. Also, these pejorative remarks about his backing tend to rub off on him - I'm glad that is starting to wear off now. So I don't really think it is too off topic. I have said what I want to say on the subject though, but I don't believe it derails the thread.

#213 rayburn

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:27

The only reason agreement would be hard to get is the power of propaganda. The subject got raised in the first place as a way to call into question Maldonado's quality - "backed by a dictator" - the implication being that if there is enough money and power there then anyone can get the job if they are favoured. Also, these pejorative remarks about his backing tend to rub off on him - I'm glad that is starting to wear off now. So I don't really think it is too off topic. I have said what I want to say on the subject though, but I don't believe it derails the thread.


The point I was making was that people have very strong views on politics, and it is usually a waste of time and effort to try and make someone else see your point of view. There are places to discuss politics and I don't feel this thread is that place.

I know you didn't bring the subject up, but it is a very emotive subject and generally degenerates into pointless arguments.

Thanks for your reply anyway. :)

#214 One

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:30

The point I was making was that people have very strong views on politics, and it is usually a waste of time and effort to try and make someone else see your point of view. There are places to discuss politics and I don't feel this thread is that place.

I know you didn't bring the subject up, but it is a very emotive subject and generally degenerates into pointless arguments.

Thanks for your reply anyway. :)


Agreed. All Political back ground aside, Pastor's charactor would have been the same if he was Brits and the back up came from Brits, if he was a Japanese and back up came from japan, if he was a Chinese, if he was ... does not matter who, he has this charactor and strong sense of duty to serve for a larger aim. This is how i see him on the grid. This makes him extremely strong in any given pressure.
I like him. I hope later on he grow to race for his targets.

#215 TheBunk

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:39

Top 6 fastest race laps in Spain

1	10	Romain Grosjean	Lotus-Renault	53	15:23:55	194.295	1:26.250
2	9	Kimi Räikkönen	Lotus-Renault	50	15:19:15	192.758	1:26.938
3	5	Fernando Alonso	Ferrari	46	15:13:01	191.761	1:27.390
4	1	Sebastian Vettel	Red Bull Racing-Renault	65	15:42:10	190.935	1:27.768
5	2	Mark Webber	Red Bull Racing-Renault	44	15:11:16	190.741	1:27.857
6	18	Pastor Maldonado	Williams-Renault	26	14:43:01	190.635	1:27.906

No shame in Pastor being 6th but look what lap he set his best time on... lap 26! That's with 2/3 fuel still on board. He obviously could have gone a lot faster towards the end of the race (as those around him did) but decided to manage his tyres instead. Of course it could be that he drove worse towards the end of the race but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and also praise Williams for building a race winning car again and executing a perfect race strategy with Pastor.


:up:

While Mark Hughes insults Maldonado hes only a top driver because of todays tyres, Frank Williams has had a lot more rightful praise, and says Maldonado is here to stay a long time, and possibly become a champion. Me, I thought that Monaco drive last year was already a sign this guy is not just a pay driver. Weve seen a lot worse, thats for sure.

#216 stanga

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:53

Where does in the constitution it says "Presidente For life"?.

The only thing that was changed was the removal of term limits, which doesn't just affect the President position but also that of Governors and Mayors, a lot of which are run by Opposition members. So, they have as much of a chance of being a "for life" anything as Chavez does, provided they all win their corresponding elections.

Quite simple, really, and hardly "actual facts" on your part.

Enough Off-topic, though.


As Joe Stalin said, "It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything."

The recent elections in Russia show how removing term limits and election fraud go hand in hand. I admire your confidence in Chavez' sense of electoral fair play. However, when he said he was not ready to go at the time of the El Presidente for life move was made, I suspect he didn't mean he was prepared to move aside for another El Presidente.

And just for the record, I don't question Maldonado's quality or lack thereof. Enough with the straw man knitting already...

#217 Clatter

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 15:17

Maldonado Monaco Accident

Bild newspaper recalls that the Venezuelan, who defied his ‘pay driver’ critics by winning for Williams in Spain two weeks ago, was actually banned after an horror incident on the streets of Monte Carlo seven years ago. Racing in the Renault World Series in 2005, the then 25-year-old ignored yellow flags before striking and severely injuring a marshal.

Organisers of the Monaco grand prix reacted by banning Maldonado from the street circuit for life. Germany’s Bild revealed that Maldonado’s wealthy father intervened, promising to pay for the marshal’s recovery and rehabilitation from a broken back.


Is this just sensationalist journalism or you can just get away with things if you have enough money?

#218 Disgrace

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 15:20

Oh good, now he's a race winner so people have heard of him, so let's print this story.

#219 jee

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 15:52

Maldonado Monaco Accident


Is this just sensationalist journalism or you can just get away with things if you have enough money?


http://www.f1technic...=338291#p338291



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#220 TheBunk

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 16:47

He was quick today. Well done!

#221 jjcale

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 17:17

Venezuela is a democracy.

Chavez is a hero to millions of ordinary people; but not to millions of elite rich western oil companies.

:rotfl:


#222 sheogorath

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 19:04

The recent elections in Russia show how removing term limits and election fraud go hand in hand. I admire your confidence in Chavez' sense of electoral fair play.


My confidence is related more to the voting machines and electronic system in place than in Chavez, since I have worked with said system while doing an internship for the company that made it and mantains it. On the other hand, those who oppose him are no better when it comes to "democratic fair play" as shown back in 2002, and the current opposition candidate stormed an Embassy with little to no regard for international law nor for the people in it and he never went to jail for that, either.

Anyway, I'll leave it that. We have to deal with enough politics as it is to be filling a racing forum with more of it.



#223 Peat

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 10:31

So, i had 2 weeks to reconsider my views on teh guy after his impressive showing in Spain and he goes and reverts to type.

What a complete idiot.

Take is license away before he kills someone.

#224 stanga

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 10:34

I see Maldonado was possessed by the Spirit of Chavez this morning...

#225 RedBaron

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 10:35

I thought Frank Williams said Pastor wasn't hot headed and didn't reflect the Latin temperament at all?

You have to assume he bumped Perez on purpose and crashed because the incident/frustration was on his mind... if that's the case how disappointing after he really raised his stock in Barcelona.

#226 Peat

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 10:42

Of course his move on Perez was on purpose. If Perez wasn't there, he would have driven into the wall.

His suspension took quite a knock, perhaps that contributed to him spannering up the entrance to Casino Sq?

#227 Raziel

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 10:45

So, i had 2 weeks to reconsider my views on teh guy after his impressive showing in Spain and he goes and reverts to type.

What a complete idiot.

Take is license away before he kills someone.


Take his license? Take away license from a guy who is Grand Prix winner? You gotta be kidding, right? :rolleyes:


#228 Mandzipop

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 10:46

Can the discussion regarding the Maldanado/Perez incident be taken to this thread. http://forums.autosp...howtopic=168215

#229 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 10:49

I see everybody is back to bashing! that's Pastor. deal with it!! :smoking:

#230 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 13:50

Strong showing from Pastor today! could have been pole if he didn't have traffic.

#231 DanardiF1

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 14:55

Strong showing from Pastor today! could have been pole if he didn't have traffic.


I think that's part of the root of some people's 'frustrations' with Pastor. He's clearly a fast racing driver, but too often he acts like a clown and sometimes he's plain dangerous to those around him.

If he could only realise that he doesn't need to be so aggressive sometimes, he'd still retain enough of his speed to be a fine F1 driver. His maiden win was almost a blessing and a curse. It was vindication for both his talent and that his aggressive streak is 'ok' in his mind. I'm of the opinion that a race ban for the behaviour in Monaco would've actually done him a world of good.

#232 PretentiousBread

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 19:45

Strong showing from Pastor today! could have been pole if he didn't have traffic.


Sorry, but no one was beating Vettel in a million years today.

#233 TFLB

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 20:08

Sorry, but no one was beating Vettel in a million years today.

I agree. If he hadn't encountered Rosberg at the final corner he would almost certainly have been second though - although that could have actually been worse than where he is, because he's on the clean side, which in Valencia is a big advantage.

#234 jj2728

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 20:51

I think that's part of the root of some people's 'frustrations' with Pastor. He's clearly a fast racing driver, but too often he acts like a clown and sometimes he's plain dangerous to those around him.

If he could only realise that he doesn't need to be so aggressive sometimes, he'd still retain enough of his speed to be a fine F1 driver. His maiden win was almost a blessing and a curse. It was vindication for both his talent and that his aggressive streak is 'ok' in his mind.


He's no less dangerous than more than a few on the grid today. His aggressiveness will even out over time, but I think he's been way underrated till now. His maiden win was no fluke (as some have said) and certainly not a curse.

#235 Sevach

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 20:58

Sorry, but no one was beating Vettel in a million years today.


Yeah, he got Rosberg at the very last corner, maybe he could've had Hamilton if he didn't.

Given how bad, the 2nd place was in GP2 this might have been a blessing.

#236 MustangSally

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 21:30

I think there's no dispute that Pastor is blindingly quick.

To be up there with Vettel and Hamilton takes some doing.

An unfortunate by-product is that he is making Senna look blindingly slow.

Pastor has been compared to Montoya as a 'Wild Man'. If Williams can manage and cultivate his temperament, they will have a great driver. But then, the question is, 'for how long'?

McLaren and Ferrari wanted Montoya. Imagine if a driver like Montoya came with sponsorship the size of PDVSA.

I think Williams should be looking at his contract . . .


#237 BigCHrome

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 18:09

What a complete moron. YOU CAN'T STEER ON THE CURB!!!

#238 Dolph

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 22:50

Maldonado pushes everybody out of track. Just look at what he did to Webber today. Now the shoe is on the other foot and Maldonado is crying "ooh, he did a very agressive move, pushed me off the track, did not leave me any room".

Maldonado threw away a podium finish and ruined a championship competotors race. Complete and utter moron.

#239 PretentiousBread

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 23:50

Well done today Pastor, only wrecked one car.

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#240 BetaVersion

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 01:51

Feel sorry for Pastor, some guys simply can't accept they lost it.

There was no way Hamilton would hold that position with the situation of his tires, he just asked for it by throwing Maldonado into that high kerbs which made him try to come back while Lewis just turned as if he was the only guy on the track

Anyway, the guy is proving to be an excelent driver, extremelly fast and capable of bring good results

#241 SR388

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 01:56

Feel sorry for Pastor, some guys simply can't accept they lost it.

There was no way Hamilton would hold that position with the situation of his tires, he just asked for it by throwing Maldonado into that high kerbs which made him try to come back while Lewis just turned as if he was the only guy on the track

Anyway, the guy is proving to be an excelent driver, extremelly fast and capable of bring good results



Lewis was the only guy on track during the incident. That's where the controversy lies.

#242 ViMaMo

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 02:07

Feel sorry for Pastor, some guys simply can't accept they lost it.

There was no way Hamilton would hold that position with the situation of his tires, he just asked for it by throwing Maldonado into that high kerbs which made him try to come back while Lewis just turned as if he was the only guy on the track

Anyway, the guy is proving to be an excelent driver, extremelly fast and capable of bring good results


So no driver should defend his position, they should let others go by and settle for anything other than a DNF? :stoned:

The advantage was with Pastor, he should have paced himself and could have taken Lewis at another time and place easily. But no, pastor had to lose it, its a habit after all.

#243 karne

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 02:46

I've said it before but I'll say it again - Pastor is fast but bloody stupid.

In fact, just a couple of laps before the final accident Dad and I were discussing how well Lewis was defending and how Pastor was likely to do something strange, I even said then "I hope he doesn't do anything too stupid like he's done before..." JINX!

Seriously, the guy needs to calm down. Plenty of racers are fast. But to finish first, first you must finish, and you're not gonna finish many races if you keep ploughing into people!

#244 BetaVersion

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 02:48

Lewis should have left space on that corner, he woud still be ahead of Pastor, as he had more momentum at that specific position, but they wouldn't collide.

The Kerbs, in which Lewis threw Pastor, are quite high and would probaly cause damage to his fw or floor if he passed through it. Pastor had to move back on track, Lewis could have left the space for it. He wouldn't be conceding his position with that but only letting Pastor remains with a decent car, imo.

#245 ViMaMo

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 02:52

Maybe Lewis wasnt expecting Daffy Duck to come flying over the kerbs.

#246 Konsta

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 05:33

Lewis should have left space on that corner, he woud still be ahead of Pastor, as he had more momentum at that specific position, but they wouldn't collide.

The Kerbs, in which Lewis threw Pastor, are quite high and would probaly cause damage to his fw or floor if he passed through it. Pastor had to move back on track, Lewis could have left the space for it. He wouldn't be conceding his position with that but only letting Pastor remains with a decent car, imo.


Had Pastor had an ounce of racing intelligence, he had cut the chicane and taken Lewis on the next straight a´la Raikkonen et.al.

#247 ClubmanGT

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 06:34

Maybe Lewis wasnt expecting Daffy Duck to come flying over the kerbs.


Maybe Lewis should develop a logic sequence that goes further than

10: Car attempting to pass
20: Run car off track
30: Goto 10

Good on Maldonado for not putting up with Hamilton's bullshit, now if only the rest of the grid could figure this out then we might see some wheel-to-wheel racing in F1 again.

#248 Barry Boor

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 06:43

I would say that for the majority of the Valencia race we had plenty of wheel to wheel racing. There were a remarkably small number of indidents given how close they were all running.

It's simply that these stupidly enormous front wings are bound to get tagged often because the drivers can't see them.

#249 cooper

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 08:16

Maybe Lewis should develop a logic sequence that goes further than

10: Car attempting to pass
20: Run car off track
30: Goto 10

Good on Maldonado for not putting up with Hamilton's bullshit, now if only the rest of the grid could figure this out then we might see some wheel-to-wheel racing in F1 again.


This is a quote taken from F1Fanatic which I think you should read before trying to pin the blame on Hamilton:

Question-Wasn’t Hamilton supposed to leave some space for the competing car?

Answer- This was not a circumstance such as that described by the rules clarification over the winter (see here).

As we’ve seen several times this year, including with other drivers in this race, the driver who is ahead is still allowed to resume the racing line after passing through the corner, which is exactly what Hamilton did.

What’s more, Maldonado has knows this: he did the exact same thing to Raikkonen on lap two at turn 17. So it’s completely disingenuous of him to accuse Hamilton of doing something wrong by practising tactics he had already used himself.


#250 ClubmanGT

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 08:27

This is a quote taken from F1Fanatic which I think you should read before trying to pin the blame on Hamilton:

Question-Wasn’t Hamilton supposed to leave some space for the competing car?

Answer- This was not a circumstance such as that described by the rules clarification over the winter (see here).

As we’ve seen several times this year, including with other drivers in this race, the driver who is ahead is still allowed to resume the racing line after passing through the corner, which is exactly what Hamilton did.

What’s more, Maldonado has knows this: he did the exact same thing to Raikkonen on lap two at turn 17. So it’s completely disingenuous of him to accuse Hamilton of doing something wrong by practising tactics he had already used himself.



That's swell, but that's actually about rule 20.3, which deals with the one car-width gap. Take a look at:

20.4 Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted.

If this rule does not apply in this case, then what's the point in having it?


Also, I'm sorry for not putting much stock in a non-professional UK-based F1 site's opinion when it comes to Lewis Hamilton.