71 replies to this topic

[Dhango]

It's not that straightforward, I'm afraid. Dan Gurney doesn't accept the 'T1G' designation, which was given to it by its designer Len Terry. In this very ancient thread:

A letter from Dan Gurney

although the letter itself is no longer available, the relevant quote from it is:



There's further clarification from Doug Nye later on in that thread:

I'll stand my ground. When you do some research on cars you don't find the words "sharknose" or any other like that. Those are nicknames. For the Eagle cars, I've found it both ways, in very good sites and in crappy ones. I accept that all this can lead to confussion and/or discussion and I like that. And by the way, I'm no kid, I'm pushing 46 and got no time to glue my pants to my computer's seat and spend all day doing "research". And keeping with the subject, ¿how you name the Lotuses, by the number alone or with a Mk before that number? I've found it both ways. ¿The Brabham cars were raced by Motor Racing Developments or by Brabham Racing Organization? I've found it both ways. ¿The BRMs were raced by Owen Racing Organization or by the Team BRM? I've found it both ways. May be the veterans know better. I'll leave now, got to drink my milk from my bottle.

Edited by Dhango, 27 March 2011 - 11:04.

[Tim Murray]

And by the way, I'm no kid, I'm pushing 46 and got no time to glue my pants to my computer's seat and spend all day doing "research".

I'll leave now, got to drink my milk from my bottle.

I'm sorry that you drew these unfortunate implications from my post. They were most certainly not intended by me.

[AJB]

Ok, now here's the next bit. Ford entered the MKIVs in 2 races in 1967, Sebring and Le Mans and won them both. Have there been other cars with such a racing pedigree? A 100% win rate?

The McLaren M8B in the 1969 CanAm season. 11 Rounds - 11 wins including a 1-2-3 and seven 1-2 finishes. (Yes, I know it's not as different from the other M8's as the Ford MkIV was from its predecessors )

[Dhango]

I'm sorry that you drew these unfortunate implications from my post. They were most certainly not intended by me.

Don't sweat it, Tim, I was at work, it was late at night and my mood is bad at that hour. Anyway, I'm still support my statement. I find that reference of the Eagles in a Road & Track magazine. The guys that did such a fine issue should know, I think, that they're were showing something that was wrong ¿don't you think?. By the way, I'm currently preparing some answer for the Reutemann topic and won't hold nothing, I'll tell it like I feel. And for all of you, Jones' fans, is not gonna be polite.

[D-Type]

Correct me if I'm wrong. The Eagle's model name was T1G. ~.

It's not that straightforward, I'm afraid. Dan Gurney doesn't accept the 'T1G' designation, which was given to it by its designer Len Terry. ~
There's further clarification from Doug Nye later on in that thread:

I'll stand my ground. ~

~By the way, I'm currently preparing some answer for the Reutemann topic and won't hold nothing, I'll tell it like I feel. And for all of you, Jones' fans, is not gonna be polite.

Can we expect the same again? Total disregard of facts and sticking to a blatantly incorrect opinion.

By all means give us your opinion on the topic. I would welcome an Argentine perspective. But from what you have written and your reaction above, it appears that you hve already decided to be rude and self-opinionated.

Edited by D-Type, 27 March 2011 - 18:33.

[D-Type]

~And keeping with the subject, ¿how you name the Lotuses, by the number alone or with a Mk before that number?

Well, I name them the same way as Lotus did:

Mk1 to Mk10, Eleven, Elite (14), Fifteen, 16, 17, 18, etc.

[elansprint72]

Well, I name them the same way as Lotus did:

Mk1 to Mk10........

Apart from Seven.

[D-Type]

Apart from Seven.;)

Granted, but the Seven was introduced in the Eleven to Fifteen period (more or less). The original in sequence Mk7 became the Clairemonte.

And I forgot the Lotus 12. And was it "17" or "Seventeen"?

Edited by D-Type, 27 March 2011 - 19:45.

[Dhango]

Can we expect the same again? Total disregard of facts and sticking to a blatantly incorrect opinion.

By all means give us your opinion on the topic. I would welcome an Argentine perspective. But from what you have written and your reaction above, it appears that you hve already decided to be rude and self-opinionated.

Not quite so, D-Type. Too many bad opinions on Lole in that particular topic. I felt the urge to make a defense fot him. ¿Rude and self-opinionated? Don't think so. Again, too many sites visited, too many different names, too many possible mistakes, too many misidentified photos.. Don't called it argentinian perspective ¿you're a fan of Gilles? I'm a fan of Lole. ¿Blatantly incorrect opinion? Opinions are like belly-buttons, everybody have one. And excuse my english, it's been a long time since school days.

Edited by Dhango, 29 March 2011 - 09:44.

[GD66]

By the way, I'm currently preparing some answer for the Reutemann topic and won't hold nothing, I'll tell it like I feel. And for all of you, Jones' fans, is not gonna be polite.

Go your hardest, bud. AJ's no saint, and would expect no less.

[Barry Boor]

An interesting and, to me, scandalous item has recently appeared on ESPN (presumably a website) in the U.S. - spotted by our member Borsari:

"When his partner overslept, Foyt's incredible stamina enabled him to race for 18 hours in the 24 Hours of Le Mans international sports car endurance race in 1967. He went on to win the race.


Surely this is wrong, isn't it?

[Ray Bell]

Let's look at that logically...

Were they doing 2-hour or 3-hour stints in the beginning? Let's say 2h 30m stints, just for argument's sake.

One ran across the road, the other took off, his partner would have been ready for the second stint. That takes us to 9pm, the first driver is back in until 11:30.

If Gurney was asleep at this time, surely he would have been up and about by 7am? Even if Foyt drove right through from 9pm to 7am, Gurney would have been back in for his second stint. He would be there until 9:30, back in at midday to drive until 2:30. That would make it that Gurney drove 7h 30m.

But would that be reasonable? If he got into the car at 7am fresh and AJ was all tuckered out, he'd have been likely to do a 5-hour stint until midday, then be back in the car at 2:30 to drive the hour and a half to the finish. Nine hours.

My money says it was impossible... at least without remarks in every magazine about how one-sided the driving was in the winning car.

Someone, surely, has the MotorSport report?

[Tim Murray]

No mention in Autosport. Motor Sport says:

[Foyt] did more than his fair share of driving because someone forgot to wake up Gurney at one pit stop, so A.J. went out again.

The Autosport report notes that Foyt first took over from Gurney somewhere between the one and two hour marks. If this pit stop pattern was maintained throughout the race, Foyt would have driven a maximum of two extra hours.

If I've found the right site, this is ESPN's poll to find 'the greatest auto sports athlete of all time'.

http://sports.espn.g...eatestofalltime

Of the five listed candidates, four are American and two of these are NASCAR drivers. The fifth is Michael Schumacher. The statement about Foyt was made by ESPN Sport Science host John Brenkus:

Brenkus says: "When his partner overslept, Foyt's incredible stamina enabled him to race for 18 hours in the 24 Hours of Le Mans international sports car endurance race in 1967. He went on to win the race. More famously, though, Foyt is the winningest Indy car driver in history. Foyt won 67 USAC (precursor to IndyCar Series) races -- at least 15 more wins than any other driver. In 1964, Foyt won 10 out of 13 races that resulted in a record-setting 76.9 winning percentage. "

Edited by Tim Murray, 25 January 2013 - 08:22.

[Barry Boor]

So, are we sure that this is a load of borrocks? And if so, where has he got it from?

I'll ask Kathy Weida to ask Dan.

[Ray Bell]

To me it sounds less feasible than the other Le Mans story...

Ed Hugus taking over when Rindt and Gregory weren't available to drive.

[ensign14]

Four Americans in five? Jesus H Jones. Even Hitler had more non-Germans in his teams.

Jimmie Johnson. Dear sweet God.

[Glengavel]

Four Americans in five? Jesus H Jones. Even Hitler had more non-Germans in his teams.

Jimmie Johnson. Dear sweet God.

I take it they mean THE Michael Schumacher? There isn't perhaps a Michael-Bob Schumacher who was the 1993 US Lawn Mower Racing Champion?

[Emery0323]

The Autosport report notes that Foyt first took over from Gurney somewhere between the one and two hour marks. If this pit stop pattern was maintained throughout the race, Foyt would have driven a maximum of two extra hours.

Gurney admits that he was "indisposed" during one pit stop, so Foyt drove one extra shift (see link):

http://www.roadandtr...at-le-mans-1967

The story about Parkes trying to provoke him, and Dan pulling over to let him by is interesting.

I've read a similar version of events from Foyt. That would mean two extra hours, but not 18 out of 24.
Dan apparently let Foyt take the final shift to the Checkered Flag also.

[D-Type]

With an even number of shifts Gurney would have started and AJ finished the race; AJ doing a double shift would simply have meant that everything shifted so Dan finished the race and they still would still do 12 hours each. Even if the plan was an odd number of shifts, say nine 2³/₄ hour spells or thirteen 1³/₄ to 2 hour ones, as Gurney started the race he would have driven one more shift than AJ and driven the final spell, and the oversleeping would have simply reversed the pattern and AJ driven the extra shift, which would also mean he would drive the final spell.

So, to quote a well known saying: "How many L's in BORROCKS?"

Edited by D-Type, 25 January 2013 - 11:45.

[arttidesco]

Of the five listed candidates, four are American and two of these are NASCAR drivers. The fifth is Michael Schumacher. The statement about Foyt was made by ESPN Sport Science host John Brenkus:

Speaking from a purely personal point of view I'd say they have chosen the wrong European, but I suspect greatest in this instance possibly factors in dollars earned

[RA Historian]

If I've found the right site, this is ESPN's poll to find 'the greatest auto sports athlete of all time'.

http://sports.espn.g...eatestofalltime

Of the five listed candidates, four are American and two of these are NASCAR drivers. The fifth is Michael Schumacher. The statement about Foyt was made by ESPN Sport Science host John Brenkus:

Consider the source. ESPN is very much all stick-and-ball sports, with racing very much a non-entity to them, and their audience is very, shall we say, unsophisticated, when it comes to racing.

A poll of largely hillbilly mouth breather types determining the best race driver of all time has no validity whatsoever as far as I am concerned.

Further, whoever the guy was who wrote the Foyt piece for them probably swallows the Foyt myth whole, and as such everything Foyt ever did is exaggerated.

Tom

Edited by RA Historian, 25 January 2013 - 19:24.

[scags]

Asking ESPN viewers about race drivers is the equivalent of asking Autosport people about ice hockey.