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Models of Silver Arrows


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#1 oldtimer

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Posted 04 January 2001 - 23:48

There are some new(?) 1/18th scale models of some of the pre-war Mercedes and Auto-Union racing cars on the market. They are expensive (especially in Canadian dollars!), and I'm interested in any opinions out there. You can use the Casio models that require assembly as a yard-stick.

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#2 Barry Boor

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Posted 04 January 2001 - 23:54

What a co-incidence that OT has begun this thread on the very day I had decided to post one along similar lines - or should it be tracks?

I am getting quite close to completing my 4-car Mercedes Benz W.196 (open-wheeler) F1 team for my new Pre-historic slot race series.

In the back of my mind, I have an idea that Mercedes ran at the 1955 British Grand Prix with BLACK numbers, although they had red ones everywhere else. Am I right? And if so, was it connected with the Le Mans accident? But if it was, why did they have red ones at Zandvoort?

I know this is technically a Racing Simulators Forum question, but this seems like a suitable thread to put it on.

#3 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 January 2001 - 00:03

More than likely it was RAC regulations... In Australia, for years (and probably still) the CAMS rules (modeled off RAC rules) stipulated type of numbering, size and all.

An example: "In form the number shall be of the sans serif type, each figure being at least 28cm in height, and the width of the line in each figure being at least 4cm."

Of course, this applies to F1 cars at Albert Park....;)[p][Edited by Ray Bell on 01-05-2001]

#4 Roger Clark

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Posted 05 January 2001 - 00:07

They certainly did run black numbers, but I don;t think it could have been the race regulations. Some cars had white numbers; and Germany's national colours were white (not silver!) with black numbers.

#5 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 January 2001 - 00:12

Yes, our rules cover that... white numbers on a dark background, black on a white background.

#6 Roger Clark

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Posted 05 January 2001 - 00:16

Originally posted by Roger Clark
They certainly did run black numbers, but I don;t think it could have been the race regulations. Some cars had white numbers; and Germany's national colours were white (not silver!) with black numbers.


Sorry. I should have said red numbers!! Made a complete nonsense of what I was trying to say.

#7 oldtimer

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Posted 05 January 2001 - 04:52

Guys, red numbers or black, do the new models capture the prescence of the originals?

Not that I don't drag red herrings across the paths of threads, not that I don't enjoy the erudition, but I'd like to know about the damn models.

#8 dbw

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Posted 05 January 2001 - 06:39

would that be a light red or more towards crimson?;)

#9 Barry Boor

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Posted 05 January 2001 - 07:36

I considered that the regs. may have demanded it, but at Silverstone in '54 the Mercs had red ones (numbers!).

#10 fines

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Posted 06 January 2001 - 11:04

Rename that "The Digression Forum"... :lol:

#11 David J Jones

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Posted 12 January 2001 - 19:54

Barry

I am thinking of resurrecting my interest in slot cars with a pre war bias. (my current collection is 1961 - 1967)

Do you have any details on availability of 1/32 bodies / kits of the 1937 - 1939 era?

#12 oldtimer

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Posted 12 January 2001 - 20:19

David, you disappointed me, I thought I was going to get some information when the thread came back! Both retailers that I have contacted seem incapable of providing any more information than they post in their web sites, presumably from the printing on the boxes. Duh!

#13 David J Jones

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Posted 12 January 2001 - 20:35

Old Timer

Sorry

I will start to check it out myself - if I find anything I will let you know

#14 dbw

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Posted 13 January 2001 - 02:45

sorry guys...best i can do is to quote from "appendices to the international sporting code"[a.i.a.c.r.]1930

annexe 1;couleurs nationales distinctives a attribuer aux vehicules qui prennent part a des manifestations sportives internationales
pays;allemagne
coulers du vehicule; blanc
coulers des numeros; rouges

seems the numbers should be red....but then again the cars themselves should be white...i've heard all the stories as to why the "arrows" became silver....what i have not heard is just how they got away with it.

#15 Roger Clark

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Posted 24 February 2001 - 22:15

Sorry to resurrect this thread and to take it off topic again.

Regarding the colours of Mercedes' racing numbers; I've just seen a colour film of the 1954 British Grand Prix where the W196s also had black numbers. This suggests that the use of Black numbers in 1955 was nothing to do with the Le Mans disaster.

#16 Barry Boor

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Posted 24 February 2001 - 22:34

Yes, Roger, come to think of it, I've seen that film too.

I suspect the answer to my question is to do with the organisers of the race. I suspect there may have been some regulation that said 'numbers must be either white or black on white'. It's too much of a co-incidence that the only time Mercedes seem to have used black numbers was in Britain.

#17 oldtimer

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Posted 25 February 2001 - 01:41

Well, tell that to CMC, the model manufacturer in question, because they have put red on white numerals on their limited edition of SM's Aintree car!

I broke down and got the W154, since my former company wanted to give me a retirement gift. If anyone is interested in putting the thread back on topic, I can give a very subjective appraisal.

#18 oldtimer

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Posted 25 February 2001 - 01:53

Just checked; CMC have a SM model, no.6, but the retailer web-site does not say that it is the Aintree car. Case not proven! To let the thread stay off topic, which races did Moss have no.6 during the 1955 season?

#19 jarama

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Posted 25 February 2001 - 02:34

Moss's Mercedes was wearing #6 in the Argentinian, Buenos Aires and European -Monaco- GP's, while at Aintree Stirling's car was the #10.

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#20 ray b

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Posted 25 February 2001 - 03:09

1/32 scale slot cars, a long time ago
67? i had a 1939 MB car [scaleltric?]
that was a well done hard plastic body.
but was 4 wheel drive with motor driving
both ends, front had uni-joint & steering.
weird slow tipy car.

#21 Wolf

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Posted 25 February 2001 - 03:24

To keep this thread in the way it's heading (OT ;)), didn't someone recently post a colour picture of streamlined Mercedes with black no. 16? It must've been recent photo from some exibition or museum, if I'm not very mistaken...

#22 fines

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Posted 25 February 2001 - 10:20

Maybe the Fangio museum?

#23 Barry Boor

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Posted 29 March 2001 - 18:58

These cars have taken nearly as long to build as the real ones!
Anyway, here is my home-made slot-race team of Mercedes-Benz W.196s.
Posted Image

Posted Image

People say that my cars look better 'in the plastic', rather than in images. I tend to agree.

#24 Gary C

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Posted 29 March 2001 - 19:37

Barry, your models look absolutely fantastic!
Now all we need is some 'action' shots!:)

#25 chrisj

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Posted 29 March 2001 - 19:57

There are some new(?) 1/18th scale models of some of the pre-war Mercedes and Auto-Union racing cars on the market. They are expensive (especially in Canadian dollars!), and I'm interested in any opinions out there. You can use the Casio models that require assembly as a yard-stick.



Can you point me to a website that shows these "new" models? Thanks

#26 fines

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Posted 29 March 2001 - 20:28

Ah Barry, so your numbers are red? :lol:

Really nice cars!!!! :up: And I go with Gary here, show us some action shots, preferably Moss outbraking Fangio at the Station hairpin!!!! :D

#27 Ray Bell

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Posted 29 March 2001 - 22:07

Sorry, fines, that was in the short wheelbase model...

#28 oldtimer

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Posted 30 March 2001 - 03:51

Chrisj, welcome to a fascinating arena! The models are new and produced by CMC. Pictures can be seen at www.sportcraftcars.com. If you are interested in an opinion of the W154 Mercedes, PM me.

Why isn't the web site showing as a link?

#29 oldtimer

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Posted 30 March 2001 - 04:15

Ha, the link does show:)

Barry, that's a very impressive line up.

Course, if you made a lineup of 4 Vanwalls, that would look even more impressive.:)

#30 Barry Boor

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Posted 30 March 2001 - 06:15

As the series of slot-cars I am building including the Mercs is based around 1954-5-6, I'm afraid there won't be 4 Vanwalls. (There never WERE 4 Vanwalls, were there) But there will be 2 of them; plus 3 Lancias, 4 250F's, 4 Super Squalo Ferraris, 2 BRM's and assorted Connaughts, Gordinis, older Ferraris, oh yes, and a Bugatti!

Red numbers? Yes, Michael, I settled on red as Mercedes used red more than black during 54-55.

#31 Option1

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Posted 30 March 2001 - 06:56

Hi oldtimer, your link shows, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to be working. I get a "page not found" error.

Regards

Neil

#32 oldtimer

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Posted 30 March 2001 - 17:40

Ah, the mysteries of the 'net'. If I click on the link, I don't connect, but if I type it in, I do.

Barry, the Vanwall team often took 4 cars to fixtures, even though they only entered three. The team seemed to like to line them all up. The cover of the Jenkinson and Posthumus book has them beautifully lined up at Aintree in 1957.

#33 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 March 2001 - 21:47

I'm sure there are four in my photo from Goodwood a couple of years ago...