31 replies to this topic

[jimjimjeroo]

I've just been reading about the relationship between the two above, Peter Warr seemed to have issues with Mansell, big enough that he'd rather the team not score points and a win!? He was quoted to have said "he'll never win a Grand Prix as long as I have a hole in my arse"


Quote from wikipedia....

Mansell's final race with the Lotus team was heavily compromised by Warr's unwillingness to give Mansell the brake pads he desired for the race. With 18 laps of the race remaining, and with Mansell in second position, the brakes on his car failed. On Mansell's departure, Warr was quoted "He'll never win a Grand Prix as long as I have a hole in my arse".

How did this guy get to where he was with an attitude like that?

[Lec CRP1]

I've just been reading about the relationship between the two above, Peter Warr seemed to have issues with Mansell, big enough that he'd rather the team not score points and a win!? He was quoted to have said "he'll never win a Grand Prix as long as I have a hole in my arse"


Quote from wikipedia....

Mansell's final race with the Lotus team was heavily compromised by Warr's unwillingness to give Mansell the brake pads he desired for the race. With 18 laps of the race remaining, and with Mansell in second position, the brakes on his car failed. On Mansell's departure, Warr was quoted "He'll never win a Grand Prix as long as I have a hole in my arse".

How did this guy get to where he was with an attitude like that?

A possible clue is Warr's repution as a 'no-nonsense' figure, and Mansell's reputation as a figure who gives a great deal of 'nonsense'.

[MCS]

I really wouldn't trust wikipedia to be totally accurate about anything - sorry; but I liked and rated Mansell and thought Warr was an arse.

That said, I'm off now. Happy New Year everybody!!!

[Bloggsworth]

I first met Peter Warr in 1963...

[RA Historian]

I've just been reading about the relationship between the two above, Peter Warr seemed to have issues with Mansell,

Really? "Issues" with Mansell? How can that be? Never heard of such things with regards to Mansell. Amazing.
Tom

[jimjimjeroo]

Surely results for the team outweigh the personal feelings of the boss

[Paolo]

Surely results for the team outweigh the personal feelings of the boss

No. See Briatore sabotaging Trulli at Renault, the same Briatore walking away from the track when Patrese risked winning the 1993 Hungarian GP.

[Amphicar]

No. See Briatore sabotaging Trulli at Renault, the same Briatore walking away from the track when Patrese risked winning the 1993 Hungarian GP.

I don't think that Flavio Briatore is the best example of an F1 team boss - at least I hope not!

[bathceltic]

I know he was seen as a no nonsense character but my two memories of him are rather different. In the superb jps documentary, if you are not winning you are not trying, he comes across as quite weak and terribly sycophantic but i suppose he was very young and working for colin chapman and the other incident was when he gave into Senna's bullying and didn't take on Warwick despite a verbal promise and surely a 'no nonsense' figure would have admitted his mistake and seen Warwick head on. Instead he got Fred Bushell to break the bad news to Del boy. As to his 'issues' with Mansell, well as Frank Williams and Patrick Head said at the end of 1987, they would miss Mansell the driver but not Mansell the man. Not the easiest to manage!

Edited by bathceltic, 03 January 2011 - 15:37.

[rallen]

No. See Briatore sabotaging Trulli at Renault, the same Briatore walking away from the track when Patrese risked winning the 1993 Hungarian GP.

How did Patrese risk winning the 1993 Hungarian GP?

[kayemod]

Peter was well liked at Lotus, I can't remember anyone saying a word against him. On the suggestion that he was weak and sycophantic, I don't think so, I got the impression he got his own way quite a lot of the time, Lotus hiring and keeping Mansell was a notable exception to that. Colin Chapman was always receptive to good ideas, if you really had something, he wasn't that hard to convince. The only thing was, he always re-wrote the script in his own mind, so that he claimed the credit, convincing himself that other peoples' good ideas had originated from the ACBC thought processes. On Mansell, Chapman was one of the few who could see his potential as a driver, though of course this never really blossomed while he was at Lotus.

[bathceltic]

fair comments and the film you have to remember was a 'pr' film and team boss chapman would have to look good for the cameras. Also Fred Bushell was used by Chapman as the bearer of bad news as well.

[P0wderf1nger]

Don't blame Wikipedia for this story. IIRC, Mansell claims the same in his autobiography. Assuming the story is true, and I've never seen Warr's version of events recorded anywhere, I've always wondered what Prost made of them.

Mansell's retirement from the 1984 Portugese GP elevated Lauda to second place, enabling him to pip Prost to that year's title...

[midgrid]

Don't blame Wikipedia for this story. IIRC, Mansell claims the same in his autobiography. Assuming the story is true, and I've never seen Warr's version of events recorded anywhere, I've always wondered what Prost made of them.

Yes - the paragraph concerned cites page 141 of Mansell's autobiography.

[kayemod]

Who to believe, Wikipedia or Nigel Mansell's biography? Now that's a tough one. Mansell's version of his time at Williams should be cross-checked with Maurice Hamilton's excellent book Williams, where we get alternative and very different takes on various events from Patrick Head and most of the others concerned.

[P0wderf1nger]

Who to believe, Wikipedia or Nigel Mansell's biography? Now that's a tough one. Mansell's version of his time at Williams should be cross-checked with Maurice Hamilton's excellent book Williams, where we get alternative and very different takes on various events from Patrick Head and most of the others concerned.

My point exactly Rob. What is the Warr or Lotus version of events at Estoril in '84?

[midgrid]

Who to believe, Wikipedia or Nigel Mansell's biography? Now that's a tough one. Mansell's version of his time at Williams should be cross-checked with Maurice Hamilton's excellent book Williams, where we get alternative and very different takes on various events from Patrick Head and most of the others concerned.

I've changed the wording of the Lotus last race paragraph to make it clear that the claims are Mansell's. The Williams sections are almost completely uncited at the moment, but I don't think there's anything too controversial in there, except for Piquet's comments about him, which I know to be true, but could really do with a source.

[kayemod]

My point exactly Rob. What is the Warr or Lotus version of events at Estoril in '84?

Peter Warr never seems to have written much during his life, though he may have been working on something, so sadly there's an awful lot that we may never know, but he was the subject of an excellent Simon Taylor 'Lunch with' in Motor Sport a year or two ago, does anyone know if he mentioned it there? I don't think I still have it, as due to wifely pressure, I'm trying to kick the hoarding old magazines habit, I hardly ever got around to reading them again anyway, but I'd put a reasonable sum on Peter's version of Estoril being very different from, maybe even diametrically opposed to Mansell's.

[midgrid]

My point exactly Rob. What is the Warr or Lotus version of events at Estoril in '84?

This is what Alan Henry writes, in the relevant Autocourse:

Mansell's brilliant drive came to an end when he spun abruptly and crawled in to retire with no brakes at the end of lap 52. Close examination revealed that one of the front calipers had popped out of one of its pistons, the fluid had leaked away and that was the end of Nigel's great effort. "I could cry, I'm so upset," he confessed.

There was an interview with Warr in Motor Sport a few months ago, but I don't recall him mentioning this race.

[milestone 11]

Yes - the paragraph concerned cites page 141 of Mansell's autobiography.

Thought I'd look it up just to see exactly what had been said. It's page 161 of possibly the very worst autobiography that I've ever read, mmmm well maybe "winning is not enough", isn't far behind. There was a little gem on page 141 though, our Nige tells us that Jimmy Clark and Graham Hill were so pissed off with Warr on one occasion that, they had hurled him into a river.

[Paolo]

How did Patrese risk winning the 1993 Hungarian GP?

Had Hill retired...

[Gary C]

Back in 2007 Steve Holter and I conducted a filmed interview with Peter mainly for my Lotus 72 dvd. I think we filmed for around 90 minutes. Peter gave us a little info on what it was like to work for Lotus at in the late fifties. As I said, the main thrust of the interview was the 72. Part of the interview has been used in volume 4 of my 'Yesterday's Racers' DVD (the non-72 footage!). We used some of the 72 video at our 'Lotus Racing Film Festival' in October, where it went down very well, Bob Dance was moved to tell me that it was a great epitaph for the man, which rather pleased me.

[Bloggsworth]

Peter Warr never seems to have written much during his life, though he may have been working on something, so sadly there's an awful lot that we may never know, but he was the subject of an excellent Simon Taylor 'Lunch with' in Motor Sport a year or two ago, does anyone know if he mentioned it there? I don't think I still have it, as due to wifely pressure, I'm trying to kick the hoarding old magazines habit, I hardly ever got around to reading them again anyway, but I'd put a reasonable sum on Peter's version of Estoril being very different from, maybe even diametrically opposed to Mansell's.

It would be, wouldn't it, he's hardly likely to say "I didn't like the middle-class whinger, so I shafted him" is he....

I heard fairly soon after the event from one who should know, the a mechanic had informed "Management" of a serious problem with the brakes and who was told in no uncertain terms to leave bad alone - I have no reason to doubt his version - Perhaps someone didn't want to eat his proverbial hat.

[Allan Lupton]

This is what Alan Henry writes, in the relevant Autocourse:
Close examination revealed that one of the front calipers had popped out of one of its pistons,

That statement does not inspire confidence in Mr Henry's understanding, does it?

[Bloggsworth]

QUOTE (midgrid @ Jan 4 2011, 14:15)
This is what Alan Henry writes, in the relevant Autocourse:
Close examination revealed that one of the front calipers had popped out of one of its pistons,

That statement does not inspire confidence in Mr Henry's understanding, does it?

Granted that it may not be in the best of grammatical traditions, and a Fowlerist may have said that "A piston popped out of the caliper", but mangled syntax aside, the meaning is the same...

Edited by Bloggsworth, 04 January 2011 - 22:41.

[PeterElleray]

Thought I'd look it up just to see exactly what had been said. It's page 161 of possibly the very worst autobiography that I've ever read, mmmm well maybe "winning is not enough", isn't far behind. There was a little gem on page 141 though, our Nige tells us that Jimmy Clark and Graham Hill were so pissed off with Warr on one occasion that, they had hurled him into a river.

i thought PW was running a slot race club in london at the time Clark and Hill were team mates at Lotus, returning in late '69 ?

peter

[Allan Lupton]

QUOTE (midgrid @ Jan 4 2011, 14:15)
This is what Alan Henry writes, in the relevant Autocourse:
Close examination revealed that one of the front calipers had popped out of one of its pistons,



Granted that it may not be in the best of grammatical traditions, and a Fowlerist may have said that "A piston popped out of the caliper", but mangled syntax aside, the meaning is the same...

It is not mangled syntax and the meaning is not the same: You might as well say that pouring some water out of a bucket is the same as pouring a bucket out of some water.
It displays total ignorance of the components being referred to which, in my view, shows that his writings are deeply unreliable.

[jcbc3]

It is not mangled syntax and the meaning is not the same: You might as well say that pouring some water out of a bucket is the same as pouring a bucket out of some water.
It displays total ignorance of the components being referred to which, in my view, shows that his writings are deeply unreliable.

Or that the book had a poor editor?

[Bloggsworth]

It is not mangled syntax and the meaning is not the same: You might as well say that pouring some water out of a bucket is the same as pouring a bucket out of some water.
It displays total ignorance of the components being referred to which, in my view, shows that his writings are deeply unreliable.

Moderator - Can you please move this to the Blood Pressure Thread...

Edited by Bloggsworth, 05 January 2011 - 10:49.

[milestone 11]

i thought PW was running a slot race club in london at the time Clark and Hill were team mates at Lotus, returning in late '69 ?

peter

Yes, strange, Mansell attributes the comment to John Thornburn (sic). I have no idea when this incident could have happened for, as you say, PW was not at Lotus from when the team moved to Norfolk, end of '66, till '69. It is a matter of record that GH was at BRM until '67. Quite when and under what circumstances the incident took place, will doubtfully ever be substantiated.

[scags]

Maybe they were mad over a slot car race?

[Charles E Taylor]

“No Brakes” Mansell

Mansell's brilliant drive came to an end when he spun abruptly and crawled in to retire with no brakes at the end of lap 52. Close examination revealed that one of the front calipers had popped out of one of its pistons, the fluid had leaked away and that was the end of Nigel's great effort. "I could cry, I'm so upset," he confessed.

It may well be that there really were “No Brakes” at all.

IIRC due to “Brake Cooling” issues both the Carbon Pads and the Disks were completely destroyed, (Did not exist).
This would not be the only time this has happened with Carbon Brakes!!!


This would explain why the brake pistons were expelled by the callipers.



Charlie