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Banker arrested on bribery charges (merged)


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#151 BRG

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 10:52

A justification that ironically could lead to Ecclestone being repaid the $50m paid to Gribkowsky

Much as I share your disdain for the wretched Bernie, what's the betting that this will be the outcome? He seems to come up smelling of roses no matter what. Still, we can only hope that justice will prevail.

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#152 TriumphST

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 14:15

Much as I share your disdain for the wretched Bernie, what's the betting that this will be the outcome? He seems to come up smelling of roses no matter what. Still, we can only hope that justice will prevail.


Not a betting man and pretty cynical these days but these German prosecutors seem to have the bit solidly between their molars, so like yourself, hopeful.

#153 jjcale

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 14:28

Not a betting man and pretty cynical these days but these German prosecutors seem to have the bit solidly between their molars, so like yourself, hopeful.


And Ecclestone would seem to have made a massive mis-step.... WTF kind of excuse is that... just who exactly advised him to say that?? its so bizzare, I actually wonder if there is any truth in it. Its not the most obvious sort of thing that someone would make up.

He may have to go live in Israel or Qatar or somewhere else where they dont do extraditions.

#154 TriumphST

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 19:54

joe saward:

A Munich court has ordered that Gerhard Gribkowsky’s assets should be frozen. The German banker is in jail pending an investigation how he came to have € 31.4 million in bank accounts in Austria. The decision was based on the belief that the money is the result of an allegedly fictitious consulting contract, relating to the sale of the Formula One group. The court appears to have accepted the claim that the money is directly related to the sale of shares that BayernLB held in Formula 1. It is anticipated that a trial will now follow.

The Munich investigators are continuing their interviews with involved parties with the most recent people being grilled believed to including Bernie Ecclestone’s associates Sacha Woodward Hill and Stephen Mullins and CVC Capital Partners Donald Mackenzie. There is no suggestion that any of them has done anything untoward but the Bavarian want to know their sides of the story.



Absolutely, Ecclestone had nothing to do with it and the 'blackmail' ploy was a figment of some reporters imagination, it was all down to Gribkowsky he was solely responsible and managed it all by himself. Yet the affair continues to have that pervasive odour of Rattus rattus about it, however many windows you open.

You just can't see CVC being able to divest themselves of F1 while there remains any possibility of their being implicated, they must wait for the German judicial system to run its course (and all the while their investment's diminishing) and from their perspective have any uncertainty regarding their integrity totally rebuffed.

Listening to BE over the weekend everything seems rosy in the CVC garden, now of course NI et al are involved, there's no Concorde Agreement, Gribkowsky's on the back burner and FOTA are getting restless. CVC must be wondering if they can extricate themselves with any profit at all or will it all go totally pear shaped as it so easily could if the Germans can implicate Ecclestone and writs go flying all around the world's tax havens.

Bernie going to have a busy year one way or another.

(Edit). May 30th: Latest news on Gribkowsky is the German Prosecutors have apparently till 5th July to decide whether to charge him or not.

Edited by TriumphST, 31 May 2011 - 13:12.


#155 D.M.N.

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 20:01

From Kevin Eason:

easonF1
Meanwhile in touch with Germany where outcome of Gribkowsky/Ecclestone fraud investigation should be known soon
5 hours ago

...which corroborates with TrumphST's info that they have until today to decide whether to charge him or not.

#156 Sakae

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 20:04

Well at least one is in deep watter in Germany for his activities. How many are in the same situation after financial crash in UK and US? I think that the answer is no one; nill, zero, nada.

#157 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 20:18

How is that connected?

#158 TriumphST

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 07:14

Apparently there may be no need to hold your breath according to Bloomberg report,

“In Gribkowsky’s case, the deadline will only elapse in mid-August because after finding new facts after his initial arrest, we were able to get a second arrest warrant for additional allegations,” Barbara Stockinger, the Munich prosecutors’ spokeswoman, said in an interview yesterday. “The deadline thus started anew and only elapses next month.”

These Rottweilers are not letting go and Ecclestone's german lawyer won't comment apparently. His client's too busy talking out of his backside (as usual) about non-existent 1.6L turbo engine dB level contractual obligations to be bothered to give direction to his lawyer it seems, so he's not worried?

Can't see them hauling Ecclestone into the dock till charges against Gribkowsky are finalised.

Edited by TriumphST, 07 July 2011 - 07:17.


#159 scheivlak

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 17:29

Former F1 commercial rights owner Leo Kirch died today.

Once a powerful media giant, Kirch got too ambitious and his empire collapsed into bankruptcy in 2002 http://www.boston.co...leo_kirch_dies/

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#160 Beatrix

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 02:00

Sydney Morning Herald story

Bernard E formally accused?

#161 pRy

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 07:11

Yup http://www.telegraph...ying-bribe.html

#162 TriumphST

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 07:22

At last it seems the German Prosecutor got there and, a little earlier then I expected, wonder where 'the sylt' is going from here after months of pushing out the 'Ecclestone' line, humble pie a little too much to expect I suppose?

The big issue is not Ecclestone being dodgy, that goes without saying as all knew. It's the effect on CVC and their exit strategy and more importantly, F1 in general.
Ecclestone will not have the luxury of being innocent till found guilty, from CVC's perspective they will be worried about being implicated and they will sack him sooner rather then later.

The FIA will also be looking carefully at the effect of this turn of events and Ecclestone's role. As mentioned earlier, one will expect not only the Kirch estate but also the banks who took a hit in the transaction to start recovery action globally against Ecclestone and indeed CVC (as Ecclestone was their agent).
This news will influence upcoming Concorde negotiations as well as F1 Teams seeking a stake holding in the sport. From CVC's view point rather then having an investment worth $6b+ there is the real potential they will come away with nothing.

The F1 debacle was always compared to the NI hacking scandal and noted that both would give up their corruption secrets, ironic that both come to a head simultaneously. Expect Ecclestone, with whom the strain was already showing will go downhill (just like Murdoch has) as the magnitude of the problems hit home.

Edited by TriumphST, 20 July 2011 - 18:03.


#163 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 07:51

The higher you go, the more corrupt it is. These cases are simple on the face of it, who had most to gain and just simply follow the money. The money led back to trusts/offshore companies in the name of his children, and Bernie had lots to gain from such a transaction.

#164 alfista

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 09:33

Yup http://www.telegraph...ying-bribe.html


Significantly, Autosport has not mentioned it yet

#165 TriumphST

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 09:40

Significantly, Autosport has not mentioned it yet

Surprised?

Pitpass has, though short and sweet rather then the eulogising of Ecclestone they normally carry.


#166 alfista

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 10:02

Surprised?

Pitpass has, though short and sweet rather then the eulogising of Ecclestone they normally carry.


No, I am not.
Pitpass, of course, was ridiculous with their mandatory every-week "news" about messrs Gribkowsky and Ecclestone. But some serious motorsport-dedicated websites have written about the case, Motorsport Aktuell for example.

Edited by alfista, 20 July 2011 - 10:03.


#167 TriumphST

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 10:58

No, I am not.
Pitpass, of course, was ridiculous with their mandatory every-week "news" about messrs Gribkowsky and Ecclestone. But some serious motorsport-dedicated websites have written about the case, Motorsport Aktuell for example.


While grateful to AS for their service, there is always understandably I suppose, the vested interest element to consider when operating within the motorsport fishbowl and of course the commercial implications of upsettings someone like Ecclestone who has the final sanction to grant or deny access?

What more can you say regarding Pitpass, no objectivity, slavish support of Ecclestone (and Mosley before him) and rigorous censorship of comments.

Interesting to see if Ecclestone does a grid walk on Sunday or even be in Germany for the GP?

Edited by TriumphST, 20 July 2011 - 11:11.


#168 Lukin83

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 13:46

While grateful to AS for their service, there is always understandably I suppose, the vested interest element to consider when operating within the motorsport fishbowl and of course the commercial implications of upsettings someone like Ecclestone who has the final sanction to grant or deny access?


http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/93193

I guess that officially makes it a very, very serious case.


#169 scheivlak

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 14:05

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/93193

I guess that officially makes it a very, very serious case.

Rather strange that the article has no author....

#170 Rob

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 14:46

Hopefully we'll finally get to unravelling the deal whereby Bernie got the rights for 100 years for a knockdown price, without the FIA putting it out to tender.

#171 Sakae

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 14:47

It is getting really interesting now. First KERS, than wing, tires, exhaust, and now this tidy story. Uff...

#172 Slowinfastout

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 14:58

It is getting really interesting now. First KERS, than wing, tires, exhaust, and now this tidy story. Uff...


wat? :drunk:

#173 WhiteBlue

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 21:26

Hands up who thinks that Bernie is innocent of bribing Gribkowsky in order to keep control of F1? I think it is a pretty clear case. The German tax payer suffered $66m losses to Ecclestone and Bambini in unjustified payments. In turn Bernie bribed Gribkowsky with $44m to have him sell to CVC who previously had granted Bernie the CEO position and full control of the business. Bernie sells his remaining stake in the Business to CVC and profits three times from the deal. That must have been the apex of his business career. I just hope they get the crook for it this time.

#174 sosidge

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 21:34

Rather strange that the article has no author....


Probably came from an agency. Not that strange.

#175 scheivlak

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 06:59

Probably came from an agency. Not that strange.

In that case a source -like that agency- is usually mentioned.

#176 Slowinfastout

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 07:03

It's the German GP this weekend, isn't it? :cat:

#177 Madras

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 07:23

Lock him up.

#178 jjcale

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 08:56

At last it seems the German Prosecutor got there and, a little earlier then I expected, wonder where 'the sylt' is going from here after months of pushing out the 'Ecclestone' line, humble pie a little too much to expect I suppose?

The big issue is not Ecclestone being dodgy, that goes without saying as all knew. It's the effect on CVC and their exit strategy and more importantly, F1 in general.

Ecclestone will not have the luxury of being innocent till found guilty, from CVC's perspective they will be worried about being implicated and they will sack him sooner rather then later.

The FIA will also be looking carefully at the effect of this turn of events and Ecclestone's role. As mentioned earlier, one will expect not only the Kirch estate but also the banks who took a hit in the transaction to start recovery action globally against Ecclestone and indeed CVC (as Ecclestone was their agent).
This news will influence upcoming Concorde negotiations as well as F1 Teams seeking a stake holding in the sport. From CVC's view point rather then having an investment worth $6b+ there is the real potential they will come away with nothing.

The F1 debacle was always compared to the NI hacking scandal and noted that both would give up their corruption secrets, ironic that both come to a head simultaneously. Expect Ecclestone, with whom the strain was already showing will go downhill (just like Murdoch has) as the magnitude of the problems hit home.


Got to hand it to you... re the second bold bit, that was a great call. Several years of successful cover up have unravelled quite spectacularly and with far greater consequences for Murdoch that I anticipated... So far nothing tangible has been lost by him but a lot of what he had was intangible - and the story is not over yet.

You may also be right on the first bit in bold but I still maintain that unless he agrees to go sacking Ecclestone is not going to be a simple matter. I also still expect CVC to get out before Ecclestone does .... but hey, if youre right again I will be happy to shake your hand on another good call.

#179 TriumphST

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 09:52

Hopefully we'll finally get to unravelling the deal whereby Bernie got the rights for 100 years for a knockdown price, without the FIA putting it out to tender.


Ahhh, now that would really be the icing wouldn't it?


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#180 TriumphST

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 09:54

Got to hand it to you... re the second bold bit, that was a great call. Several years of successful cover up have unravelled quite spectacularly and with far greater consequences for Murdoch that I anticipated... So far nothing tangible has been lost by him but a lot of what he had was intangible - and the story is not over yet.

You may also be right on the first bit in bold but I still maintain that unless he agrees to go sacking Ecclestone is not going to be a simple matter. I also still expect CVC to get out before Ecclestone does .... but hey, if youre right again I will be happy to shake your hand on another good call.


Thank you, kind of you to say so.


#181 Sakae

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 11:14

At last it seems the German Prosecutor got there and, a little earlier then I expected, wonder where 'the sylt' is going from here after months of pushing out the 'Ecclestone' line, humble pie a little too much to expect I suppose?

The big issue is not Ecclestone being dodgy, that goes without saying as all knew. It's the effect on CVC and their exit strategy and more importantly, F1 in general.
Ecclestone will not have the luxury of being innocent till found guilty, from CVC's perspective they will be worried about being implicated and they will sack him sooner rather then later.

BE has (or had) on more than one occassion rather strenuous relationship with some CVC's board members, which might not be entirely forgiven and forgotten, and that will not help him. On the other hand, if he salvage great chunk of his fortune, he might retire after all, which in his age is probably appropriate.

I would not be suprised if in all teams there are currently going evaluations to risk exposure "what if"...

Edited by Sakae, 21 July 2011 - 11:16.


#182 Sausage

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 13:25

Got to hand it to you... re the second bold bit, that was a great call. Several years of successful cover up have unravelled quite spectacularly and with far greater consequences for Murdoch that I anticipated... So far nothing tangible has been lost by him but a lot of what he had was intangible - and the story is not over yet.


I think the phone-hacking scandal is rather blown up though by politicians trying to get their own dirty hands clean (that and brits loving a good scandal, not much has changed). This is not similar to Bernie etc. in that respect at all.

I don't see him going anywhere soon if only because most teams feel he's the alpha and omega of F1. Sir Frank recently in the PC said BE's eventual demise would be the biggest challenge F1 has in the future.

#183 TriumphST

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 14:58

BE has (or had) on more than one occassion rather strenuous relationship with some CVC's board members, which might not be entirely forgiven and forgotten, and that will not help him. On the other hand, if he salvage great chunk of his fortune, he might retire after all, which in his age is probably appropriate.

I would not be suprised if in all teams there are currently going evaluations to risk exposure "what if"...


Thing is, those with an interest in recouping what they see as having lost through corruption surrounding the 2005/6 transfer of F1's commercial rights, Kirch (now his estate), BayernLB, Lehman's et al, will probably sue and in doing so will include both CVC and the primary instigator in their actions.

Ecclestone may lose everything he has including some of those much vaunted trusts he places so much faith in. I suspect the lawyers all over the world will be vying for a slice of those actions.



#184 sosidge

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 15:08

In that case a source -like that agency- is usually mentioned.


Agencies are not usually mentioned. The source is surely the German court papers. I bet you could request them yourself if you were that concerned about the veracity of the story.

#185 Concorde

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 15:25

Ecclestone may lose everything he has including some of those much vaunted trusts he places so much faith in. I suspect the lawyers all over the world will be vying for a slice of those actions.

dream on i think there's a better chance of me winning the 2011 WDC

people like mr. E have access to the best legal representation money can buy, even IF the matter goes to court it won't be finalized before Bernie meets the great Dealmaker in the sky  ;)

#186 Youichi

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 16:23


This may sound like a silly question, but is bribing someone actually illegal in Germany ?

There are some countries were it is, but others where only the accepting of a bribe is illegal, does anyone know which is the case in Germany ?

It maybe that Bernie hasn't actually done anything illegal.

#187 TriumphST

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 17:54

dream on i think there's a better chance of me winning the 2011 WDC

people like mr. E have access to the best legal representation money can buy, even IF the matter goes to court it won't be finalized before Bernie meets the great Dealmaker in the sky ;)


Rupert Murdoch must have been very disappointed if what you allude was true, what is the case is that the best lawyers in the world are invariably reduced to mitigation when defending a guilty party.

Looking at the German Prosecutors performance to date ours in the UK seem a little lacklustre by comparison and if the teutonic efficiency reputation is deserved, were I Ecclestone I'd be a worried man.

Edited by TriumphST, 21 July 2011 - 18:31.


#188 sblick

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 18:03

Ecclestone will be like Mosely, a huge scandal he weathers and in two years retires.

#189 Slowinfastout

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 18:17

I think you're a bit strong with the hyperbole. Ecclestone knows what he has and hasn't done, and more importantly he knows precisely how he does his business.

Ecclestone has structured his stuff into a fantastic maze, if anyone wants to reverse-engineer that crap and figure out how to pin something on Bernie himself, he'll need full access to everything.

I don't think that's gonna happen in Bernie's lifetime.

#190 OSX

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 09:19

Ecclestone Admits to Paying Banker Gribkowsky
22 July 2011

"Formula 1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone has admitted for the first time that he did pay money to banker Gerhard Gribkowsky - but says he only did so because he was 'threatened' over other financial matters."

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/93218


#191 Slowinfastout

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 09:31

Ecclestone was talking about Bambino Holdings, that's his bulletproof vest.

As JPW mentioned, any argument over this would be fudged in courts forever, if it ever makes it to a courtroom.

#192 TriumphST

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 11:13

OK, so is he going to clarify what 'matters' would be worth $44m?

I hardly think a figment of Ecclestone's imagination will cut the mustard and another explanation that holds water will be put forward. Question is, if true how would Gribkowsky be privy to Ecclestone's financial affair's seeing as they only met in 2005?

This idea came up before when he claimed he was being blackmailed, so why have the German Prosecutors implicated him as the instigator and complicit rather then a victim (who presumably would be able to re-claim the $44m). It certainly can't explain why BayernLB paid him $66m in the first place. The answer is in the discounted price CVC paid for the SLEC shares owned by the banks and credited to Ecclestone via Alpha Prema. This story is not in the least feasible and only intended for the gullible and of course the press who need a headline.

For the prosecutors the way is open for negoitation with Gribkowsky (which I suspect has already taken place) for a sentence deal and Ecclestone is the one (along with CVC of course) with the resources to make legal actions for recovery worthwhile, not Gribkowsky.

There is no doubting the ability of these German Prosecutors "to follow the money" or to place unwarranted confidence in Ecclestone to hide the proceeds of his ill-gotten gains. Any who feels Ecclestone can hide his financial affairs from an official tasked with unearthing irregularities once alerted to the possibility is living in cloud cuckoo land.

There is a difference between 'avoidance and evasion' and in this age of bank regulation it's bordering on impossible to achieve and for Ecclestone 'keeping under the radar' may have been key to his success in the past, on which point can anyone recall Ecclestone instigating legal proceedings against anyone, or indeed not capitulating in those taken against him?

Edited by TriumphST, 22 July 2011 - 11:42.


#193 One

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 11:30

Donno

Saward used to write about Bernie's businesses and now Bernie says that he was correctly reorganizing his business as it became a bit too complicated, which takes a lot of time and money. the sell came in then when Bernie was still busy doing it. Peeping of Taxmen into the on going business will complicate the business even more so he paid, as it may keep his business cheaper, sort things quicker (and keep more money to GB than paying D).

I donno what he was sorting out, but Saward was writing some tens of names that Bernie was dealing, so it must have been grown into a mess. Hope he was running in a good time scope.

Anybody who envy Bernie's money will hit him, but at the end of the day, well,.. time will tell.

#194 TriumphST

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 11:36

Ecclestone was talking about Bambino Holdings, that's his bulletproof vest.

As JPW mentioned (whatever his name is this week), any argument over this would be fudged in courts forever, if it ever makes it to a courtroom.


Ecclestone was talking for public consumption and out of his rear-end as usual.

All those that thought it would never come this far must be biting their tongues just now. The least the German Prosecutors could expect given their journey to date is respect and a little confidence in their ability to see it through. Just like Tom Watson MP, Nick Davies (Guardian) and Chris Bryant MP did in their battle against NI.

Edited by TriumphST, 22 July 2011 - 11:36.


#195 Slowinfastout

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 11:46

Ecclestone was talking for public consumption and out of his rear-end as usual.

All those that thought it would never come this far must be biting their tongues just now. The least the German Prosecutors could expect given their journey to date is respect and a little confidence in their ability to see it through. Just like Tom Watson MP, Nick Davies (Guardian) and Chris Bryant MP did in their battle against NI.


You talk like Ecclestone isn't going to be on the grid before the start of the race.. or next year's race if he isn't dead.

Bernie will keep on doing his thing until he dies or he decides he's had enough. Do you really think the guy cares about his bank account at this point?

He likes what he does and he doesn't even stop to collect the fruits, good luck trying to beat a guy like that on his turf.

#196 Sausage

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 11:49

Lmao, Bernie has bribed so many people in his life he doesn't know anymore what a bribe is :rotfl:

#197 femi

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 11:53

Apologies if this was already posted, but it seems Bernie just threw Mr.Gribkowsky under the proverbial bus :)

Edited by femi, 22 July 2011 - 11:53.


#198 OSX

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 12:02

Apologies if this was already posted, but it seems Bernie just threw Mr.Gribkowsky under the proverbial bus :)

Um... not really.

#199 femi

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 12:43

Um... not really.


You're right. Just read the first paragraph.

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#200 TriumphST

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 14:55

You talk like Ecclestone isn't going to be on the grid before the start of the race.. or next year's race if he isn't dead.

Bernie will keep on doing his thing until he dies or he decides he's had enough. Do you really think the guy cares about his bank account at this point?

He likes what he does and he doesn't even stop to collect the fruits, good luck trying to beat a guy like that on his turf.

Not so sure the German penal system is quite so liberal as to allow that or indeed if he'd still have an empire to run anyway.