30 replies to this topic

[Quixotic]

Just saw this Ad on My105.com - http://www.my105.com...00/Default.aspx

I have never heard of this car. There is one unclear shot of the car when it was racing, but that is all.

Does anyone know anything about it? at $20,000 it seems very cheap. It is V8 powered, but what sort of engine did it carry? where did it race? Who raced it? Was it any good? what classes did it race in?

You know...... All of the usual questions.

[Lee Nicolle]

looks like a Chev to me. Otherwise I know nothing about it. Probably another one off car.

[Ray Bell]

I'll guarantee it didn't look like that when it was built in the early sixties!

Some licence there, I would suggest... and if it drives through a VW gearbox (not much choice in the 'early sixties) it wouldn't be 'cheap'...

[Quixotic]

I'll guarantee it didn't look like that when it was built in the early sixties!

Some licence there, I would suggest... and if it drives through a VW gearbox (not much choice in the 'early sixties) it wouldn't be 'cheap'...

It would be interesting to see what the pics are like in his COD........

[Lee Nicolle]

I'll guarantee it didn't look like that when it was built in the early sixties!

Some licence there, I would suggest... and if it drives through a VW gearbox (not much choice in the 'early sixties) it wouldn't be 'cheap'...

It may be like the Stanton. A T10 or similar and a chain drive or similar.O a Vee drive. The engine is sitting rather high. A Chev through a VW box would be a waste of time. They could not handle VW engines. The Hewland modified ones were good for weak F2 engines.

[Ray Bell]

Gossy's Tornado drove a Falcon six with triple Webers through a VW box...

No, I don't think it would have had anything like the Stanton either.

[Quixotic]

You are right Lee...... That engine looks bloody high. With a centre of gravity like that it must have steered like a shopping trolley.....

[Quixotic]

Im guessing the VW boxes could not handle big amounts of horsepower without significant modification. What other period options were there?

[David McKinney]

Have any Australian TNFers ever heard of this car?

[Quixotic]

I can find nothing on this car anywhere on the net. Except the Ad that is

[Catalina Park]

Have any Australian TNFers ever heard of this car?

No.

[Paul Hamilton]

Have any Australian TNFers ever heard of this car?

I don't know anything much of its history but I have seen Le Chalutor in Paul Knott's workshop in recent times and it has an old Y block Ford Customline engine with (I think!) a Citroen DS transmission. Paul used to spanner for John Leffler and had intended to run the car in historic events with Lyn Brown at the wheel but the car does need a fair bit of time spent on it and I guess they must both now have lost enthusiasm for the project. It does have a CAMS Group M Certificate of Description so there must be some pre '66 period history.

[Lee Nicolle]

I should have looked harder at the engine. Casual glance was a Chev by the rocker cover shape though the oil filler was wrong. But right for a Y block, as is the exhaust spacing.That is why the engine is high, they are quite tall.
It would be expensive to maintain as those engines are dear and scarce for parts and those Citreon boxes would be suspect from the engine torque. And I bet the parts are very scarce.
Would probably be an interesting car though and if the chassis works would probably be half quick.

[Quixotic]

what do you mean by a fair bit of work? I have been looking for a historic car, and I am selling a couple of my historic race bikes to fund the purchase. It looks interesting, and certainly very cheap. I will contact the owner and see what he can tell me.

I need to know if it is within my abilities to get it racing again.

ALthough I have had years of building race bikes, I have limited knowledge on race cars.......

One way to learn I guess.

I wanted to garner as much info as I could before contacting the owner.

[Ray Bell]

I certainly don't recall seeing the car run anywhere...

And for several years in the sixties I was at something like 36 or 37 race meetings per year. I went to Hume Weirs and Lakesides, a Towac, Surfers and Sandown. No Calder, Phillip Island or Winton until about '72. But I was also reading about every other race meeting in the country.

My suspicion is that the car was a hillclimber. Logical enough, a torquey V8 in a light car with some consideration to modern suspension design

[BT 35-8]

Gentlemen, may I clarify the subject car.

First application on the car started in the late 1980's , Paul Hamilton was involved in the early
part and then when I took over from Paul [ due to his USA business commitments] and completed
the process.

We have a letter from Noel Tuckey of Qld. who advised that he knew of the car in circa 1964 , the car
was built by Dave Gordon[ sometimes known as Dave Humphries] who was an oil rig worker from QLD.
The car continued to turn up at race meetings [ Lakeside ??] without a licence for driver or having actually
entered the meeting , the owner under the impression if you owned a race car you simply turned up and raced .
Eventually the car was entered but for over 12 months the scrutineers refused permission for car to compete
as they believed it was lethal , eventually enough work was done and the car competed .
We have very faded photographs of the car bearing number 89 with spectators in the background of one shot
and the other with the car on the outside of a weldmesh type wire barrier ?? .
Noel advised the car was '' terrible , rear engine device built from steel tube , angle iron and fencing wire , Customline
272 Ford V8 and Citroen gearbox and brakes etc.''

Noel has a 1966 Lakeside programme that lists Dave Gordon's car , entered by a J.Stewart and called simply
a '' Racing special '' .Race number at that meeting was 90.

The car also seems to have had two names , '' Le Chalutior '' or possibly also '' El Salutore ''.

The car was eventually sold to the original applicant John Campton and his father circa 1982 .

Original photo's show car with a rollover bar approx 8/9'' lower that driver's head and stack type rearwards
facing open exhausts , quite wide wheels painted white .

As the car had been built in the Group M period and probably raced or attempted to race in the same period
or shortly after the car was granted an '' M '' logbook.

Bryan Miller.

[Lee Nicolle]

Gentlemen, may I clarify the subject car.

First application on the car started in the late 1980's , Paul Hamilton was involved in the early
part and then when I took over from Paul [ due to his USA business commitments] and completed
the process.

We have a letter from Noel Tuckey of Qld. who advised that he knew of the car in circa 1964 , the car
was built by Dave Gordon[ sometimes known as Dave Humphries] who was an oil rig worker from QLD.
The car continued to turn up at race meetings [ Lakeside ??] without a licence for driver or having actually
entered the meeting , the owner under the impression if you owned a race car you simply turned up and raced .
Eventually the car was entered but for over 12 months the scrutineers refused permission for car to compete
as they believed it was lethal , eventually enough work was done and the car competed .
We have very faded photographs of the car bearing number 89 with spectators in the background of one shot
and the other with the car on the outside of a weldmesh type wire barrier ?? .
Noel advised the car was '' terrible , rear engine device built from steel tube , angle iron and fencing wire , Customline
272 Ford V8 and Citroen gearbox and brakes etc.''

Noel has a 1966 Lakeside programme that lists Dave Gordon's car , entered by a J.Stewart and called simply
a '' Racing special '' .Race number at that meeting was 90.

The car also seems to have had two names , '' Le Chalutior '' or possibly also '' El Salutore ''.

The car was eventually sold to the original applicant John Campton and his father circa 1982 .

Original photo's show car with a rollover bar approx 8/9'' lower that driver's head and stack type rearwards
facing open exhausts , quite wide wheels painted white .

As the car had been built in the Group M period and probably raced or attempted to race in the same period
or shortly after the car was granted an '' M '' logbook.

Bryan Miller.

It sounds to be a car if raced as a historic will be a far better car than was raced in period!!

[Quixotic]

Wow...... This thing sounds like an "old nail".

I'll keep searching for more photos and info. The info so far, especially from Bryan Miller has been fantastic.

It sound as though this car would have to be, Re-Engineered to make it safe enough to drive. hmmmmmmmmm Intriguing. But that would be in my mind inconsistant with the spirit of historic racing. you may as well build a new car using the old car as a pattern and call it the original, (with all of the faults fixed). I know that has been done a few times around the world to the detriment of Historic racing.

From what Bryan has said, it has not done much, mainly I guess because it kept getting knocked back at scruitineering. Are there any records of it actually finishing a race?

It seems be an odd beast. I wish there were more photo's of it. I will contact the owner and see what pics he can provide me with.

[Quixotic]

Just found this on another forum:

http://www.y-blocksf...c46800-5-1.aspx

It gives more details for the car and actually has photos of the COD and Logbook.

The more I look, the more I find......... The search continues

[john medley]

I recall it running at Eastern Creek and ,perhaps, at one of those sprints near the Canberra Art Gallery. I encountered the small brave driver and his skimpily attired girlfriend at that Putty Road ? pub which is the home of Doctor Jurd's Jungle Juice ( an appropriate setting I thought) maybe 15 years ago. He told me he thought it had been built by a bloke who didnt get home often from, he said, an isolated timber mill ( oil rig a possibility) with whatever came to hand though the builder had never seen a motor race. There was something familiar about Brian's story of the man turning up at meetings unlicensed and un entered but not confused -- just confusing most others. I hadnt heard the Noel Tuckey stories, but I cant disagree: it was a remarkable and beastly thing

[Quixotic]

I recall it running at Eastern Creek and ,perhaps, at one of those sprints near the Canberra Art Gallery. I encountered the small brave driver and his skimpily attired girlfriend at that Putty Road ? pub which is the home of Doctor Jurd's Jungle Juice ( an appropriate setting I thought) maybe 15 years ago. He told me he thought it had been built by a bloke who didnt get home often from, he said, an isolated timber mill ( oil rig a possibility) with whatever came to hand though the builder had never seen a motor race. There was something familiar about Brian's story of the man turning up at meetings unlicensed and un entered but not confused -- just confusing most others. I hadnt heard the Noel Tuckey stories, but I cant disagree: it was a remarkable and beastly thing

So you think that $20000 is way to much for it then John..... LOL

[Dick Willis]

So you think that $20000 is way to much for it then John..... LOL

At the Sept 1993 HSRCA Eastern Creek race meeting its best time in qualifying was 2.14.95 and the best time I could find in the race results was 2.07.77, plenty of potential there for improvement !

[Quixotic]

Whew......... A 2:14 in Qualifying and a 2:07 in the race. For a V8 powered open wheeler. I am gobsmacked. Still, it was at least out there. I would quess that the Buick Brabham, , or perhaps the Dalro Jag were running around at the same meeting..... I wonder what their lap times were.

It may explain however, why it dissapeared very soon after...... Hmmmmmm

Perhaps the car was unsorted and way under developed, and perhaps the driver was a rookie. who knows.

To put this lap time into perspective, David Cutts drove an Historic 1200 Formula Vee around Eastern Creek last year and posted a 1:59. Some of the older formula Juniors run at this pace as well.

Either this car really is a diabolical machine, (handles like a shopping trolley), or it has never been sorted by someone who knows how to set up a race car.

I have no idea which......

[Ray Bell]

...but John has said that was with a driver carrying a weight advantage!

A driver with some meat on his bones might well take longer. What's the Group M lap record?

[Quixotic]

...but John has said that was with a driver carrying a weight advantage!

A driver with some meat on his bones might well take longer. What's the Group M lap record?

Group M lap record - 2001cc and over - Mike Ryves - 1965 Brabham BT11a - 1:41.45 back in 1996.

So it is a little off the pace....... heh heh heh

[john medley]

Dear Quixotic
I think what Ray is trying to say is that that car's driver will also race for food.( Great Line!)
And I DID say to Ray that you will get $20000 worth of fun out of it. Just remember Kipling : my son, when all around you are losing their heads and you have not lost yours, you are a man my son...... alternative ending: you dont know what the .... is going on. (Most of us, really)
JM

[Quixotic]

Dear Quixotic
I think what Ray is trying to say is that that car's driver will also race for food.( Great Line!)
And I DID say to Ray that you will get $20000 worth of fun out of it. Just remember Kipling : my son, when all around you are losing their heads and you have not lost yours, you are a man my son...... alternative ending: you dont know what the .... is going on. (Most of us, really)
JM

Yep.... I fully understand.





It all boils down to that age old phrase......... "You get what you pay for"

[Quixotic]

I guess the same would apply if there was a historic log booked Porter Formula Vee for sale. Sadly, this appears to be the Group M version of it....

To steal onother old phrase..... "you cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear"

[Ray Bell]

A better quote from Elwyn... talking about Big Dave...

"He can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear... I can make the silk purse, but I have to start with silk!"

[Quixotic]

Noticed today that the LaChalutor is still for sale........ Is it any wonder.........

[Terry Walker]

Would that Dave Gordon be the same "Dave Gordon" who raced the HRG special with the Lancia sliding pillar front suspension in WA in the 60s, for two years, sold it, and vanished back east? The WA Dave Gordon was a rough-and-ready character, it was known locally that the name wasn't his real one, and rumoured that he was hiding out from a wife or ex-wife over East. I also heard a story that he was connected with motorbike racing at some stage. The HRG Spl was, I hear, ex Stan Jones at some distant point. He was in WA around 1962-3.