73 replies to this topic

[gray chandler]

My Dads old pics. Possibly Port Wakefield.

[David McKinney]

Not Doug Whiteford's crash helmet, so presumably Reg Smith or Bob Jane

[Jean L]

I think it is Bob Jane,Fisherman's Bend in october 58 ?

[gray chandler]

My Dads old pics. Possibly Port Wakefield.

Albert Park???? and Who.!!!!!

[KarlLeFong]

Albert Park???? and Who.!!!!!

Hello

Might I suggest the original Healey-based Coad Vauxhall Special and Don Swanton Lotus XI?

Karl

[Bauble]

Hello

Might I suggest the original Healey-based Coad Vauxhall Special and Don Swanton Lotus XI?

Karl

I assume the man on the horse in the background is a statue, so should give a clue as to where, but if it is not a statue can anyone identify the rider and the horse?

Lester Piggot on Shergar perhaps?

[Ray Bell]

I think you'll find it's not a statue...

Mounted police are often used in both Sydney and Melbourne when crowds gather.

[KarlLeFong]

A picture for the Aussies



Karl

[john medley]

A very good driver, with a winning record over five decades in Australia. Allowed to wear that Cock of the Walk badge on his helmet

[KarlLeFong]

A very good driver, with a winning record over five decades in Australia. Allowed to wear that Cock of the Walk badge on his helmet

John,

What is the symbol and what does it mean?

karl

[john medley]

"Cock of the Walk" = a superior and winning individual. A winner.

I dont think DW had this on his helmet until the mid 50s

His friend Ron Edgerton described DW as the most competitive and relentless driver he ever met or raced against. Many say likewise. There was also his obsessional very black and white/ no shades of grey behaviour which intensified in his later years: I was told recently that he got away with starting a race while the grid was still full of mechanics/ hangers on, blasting into the distance at precisely 2 pm(say), later defending himself by pointing out to the stewards that the regulations said "the race will start at 2 pm"

[Ray Bell]

Where was that supposed to have happened, John?

Another who thought DW was 'relentless' and 'competitive' to the greatest degree was his one-time partner and long-time sparring partner, Jim Gullan.

And another, no doubt, was the chap who was on the receiving end of the punch that did so much damage to his career.

Edited by Ray Bell, 13 January 2011 - 13:04.

[KarlLeFong]

"Cock of the Walk" = a superior and winning individual. A winner.

I dont think DW had this on his helmet until the mid 50s

His friend Ron Edgerton described DW as the most competitive and relentless driver he ever met or raced against. Many say likewise. There was also his obsessional very black and white/ no shades of grey behaviour which intensified in his later years: I was told recently that he got away with starting a race while the grid was still full of mechanics/ hangers on, blasting into the distance at precisely 2 pm(say), later defending himself by pointing out to the stewards that the regulations said "the race will start at 2 pm"

Was he the red Cooper Jaguar Greville Edgerton?

Karl

[KarlLeFong]

Where was that supposed to have happened, KB?

Another who thought DW was 'relentless' and 'competitive' to the greatest degree was his one-time partner and long-time sparring partner, Jim Gullan.

And another, no doubt, was the chap who was on the receiving end of the punch that did so much damage to his career.

PLEASE EXPLAIN ???

[Ray Bell]

Ron was a schoolmate of Doug's...

At Bathurst in 1960, I think it was, Doug's temper led to him thumping a bloke and he was sued for a bundle.

[Marticelli]

I have to say that I echo Karl's sentiments when he says "PLEASE EXPLAIN"... The tenor of this whole thread seems to be pandering to an inside clique as almost everything is written in code... Why not use full names so we can all enjoy the story...

As for starting a race without coming under starter's orders and leaving the grid before the pack... I am surprised the guy wasn't barred for life for behaving like that! We talk about the good old days... Doesn't sound like that from where I am sitting!

Marticelli

[GD66]

There is a Doug Whiteford thread on TNF that has covered the Bathurst incident, it was all a bit unfortunate :like so many such incidents, a moment's poor decision led to much heartache.

Edited by GD66, 13 January 2011 - 08:34.

[GD66]

I have to say that I echo Karl's sentiments when he says "PLEASE EXPLAIN"... The tenor of this whole thread seems to be pandering to an inside clique as almost everything is written in code... Why not use full names so we can all enjoy the story...

Marticelli

There's no secrets here, Marti, Doug Whiteford's name is in full in David McKinney's post, #2 in the thread, and it leads on from there. I must say I am a mere outsider in the field of Australian car racing history, but my occasional enquiries have always been dealt with patiently and courteously. I think you'll find the chaps on here aren't as grumpy as you think...

Edited by GD66, 13 January 2011 - 10:42.

[Marticelli]

There's no secrets here, Marti...

Funny that you said that.. GD66. If you follow this forum you may recall seeing a story I posted here about a very famous Aussie car that I am privileged to own and be restoring, which was the first motorcar purchased by legendary Aussie "Cattle King" Sir Sidney Kidman in 1909, an 18HP Thornycroft. I have written countless emails and letters to Aussie enthusiasts in a vain attempt to find out more about where the car was discovered (late 50s or early 60s), probably on a former Kidman property in SA or about the circumstances surrounding its time spent languishing in a yard in Montrose, Victoria from about 1965 until 2002, but seem unable to jog anyone's memory sufficiently to be favoured with any real information. Maybe this thread will finally jog someone's memory...

Marticelli

[KarlLeFong]

John,
'
You are erudite author of the book "Bathurst "?.....yes?


I love it ..why are these people dreggng up meaningless gossip?

Karl

[cooper997]

Gray,

It has been mentioned previously, but the Maserati 300S shot does fit as Bob Jane driving at the October 18 & 19, 1958 Fishermen's Bend meeting. It was his debut in the car and carried #15. He gets a brief snippet (and photo) in the 'spotlight' section in the November 1958 Australian Motor Sports magazine, because of his debut in the car.

The other photo is quite likely the first weekend of the 1958 Albert Park Victorian Tourist Trophy meeting (so November 23rd). #64 should be the Bill Coad Vauxhall special and the Lotus appears to be the Charlie Whatmore, ex John Coombs 1475cc Lotus XI. Three XI's were entered for the event 5 TT, but going by the aluminium lower side section and the rear fairing behind the driver it fits Whatmore's car more so than Don Swanton. The photo I've found of his car is full screened, no fairing 1100cc XI. I haven't found a photo of Jon Leighton's 1172cc XI though. Whatmore was entry #28, Swanton #71 & Leighton #68. Whatmore was from Queensland and I can't see him in the entry list for the following Sunday's (Nov 30th) event 9 sports car scratch race. Too far to drive back I would suggest.

Stephen

[KarlLeFong]

Gray,

It has been mentioned previously, but the Maserati 300S shot does fit as Bob Jane driving at the October 18 & 19, 1958 Fishermen's Bend meeting. It was his debut in the car and carried #15. He gets a brief snippet (and photo) in the 'spotlight' section in the November 1958 Australian Motor Sports magazine, because of his debut in the car.

The other photo is quite likely the first weekend of the 1958 Albert Park Victorian Tourist Trophy meeting (so November 23rd). #64 should be the Bill Coad Vauxhall special and the Lotus appears to be the Charlie Whatmore, ex John Coombs 1475cc Lotus XI. Three XI's were entered for the event 5 TT, but going by the aluminium lower side section and the rear fairing behind the driver it fits Whatmore's car more so than Don Swanton. The photo I've found of his car is full screened, no fairing 1100cc XI. I haven't found a photo of Jon Leighton's 1172cc XI though. Whatmore was entry #28, Swanton #71 & Leighton #68. Whatmore was from Queensland and I can't see him in the entry list for the following Sunday's (Nov 30th) event 9 sports car scratch race. Too far to drive back I would suggest.

Stephen

Thanks for the Coad acknowledgement Stephen

Karl

[KarlLeFong]

There is a Doug Whiteford thread on TNF that has covered the Bathurst incident, it was all a bit unfortunate :like so many such incidents, a moment's poor decision led to much heartache.

Yes..it is a pity certain people keep unnecessarily dregging it up....

Karl

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Marticelli
I have to say that I echo Karl's sentiments when he says "PLEASE EXPLAIN"... The tenor of this whole thread seems to be pandering to an inside clique as almost everything is written in code... Why not use full names so we can all enjoy the story...

As for starting a race without coming under starter's orders and leaving the grid before the pack... I am surprised the guy wasn't barred for life for behaving like that! We talk about the good old days... Doesn't sound like that from where I am sitting!

First, I am among a number of Australians who have piled Australian racing history into this forum by the bucketload...

We are definitely not writing in code. If we occasionally resort to nicknames etc, and you can't work out who it is, please ask us who we're talking about.

Second, I sincerely doubt that the start incident happened. I think there may have been a transference of facts from the 1951 Ballarat meeting to some other story. Of course, I could be wrong, but at that meeting there was some dignitary charged with bringing down the flag to begin the race. He was being shown how to do it while mechanics and so on were still on the grid and actually just went ahead and dropped the flag.

John Cummins' telling of the story is hilarious, but the field got away without anyone being damaged so it's not just part of the rich history of the sport in Australia.

[Marticelli]

First, I am among a number of Australians who have piled Australian racing history into this forum by the bucketload...

We are definitely not writing in code. If we occasionally resort to nicknames etc, and you can't work out who it is, please ask us who we're talking about.

Happy to acknowledge (and congratulate you for) your enormous contribution and that of your esteemed countrymen, Ray, not to mention the many other nationalities who contribute much to this forum. From my two years spent happily working for DITAC in Canberra, I have a copy of the impressive tome compiled by you and others about the Australian Grand Prix, which I cherish. I am in no doubt the forum is a useful place to exchange information but sometimes the abbreviations and 'code' baffles the less well informed, like TLAs do in military parlance*.

I have competed at several Aussie circuits on historic motorcycles so not entirely unfamiliar with the Aussie scene, but this particular thread has more 'code' (or even Coad!!) than most, hence my remark 'Please explain', so I had asked you what you were talking about!! The picture in post #8 says 'A picture for the Aussies' and one assumes its of Doug Whiteford - DW - but maybe it would have been easier to say this. As for the humourous remark about Lester Piggott and Shergar, I would have though Phar Lap would have been more likely had this fine beast not died in 1932..! Maybe some restorer is working on a clone based on DNA from the heart on display in formalin in Melbourne... Might not turn out to be a race winner like the first one. And as I already mentioned elsewhere, perhaps Ern Malley might have penned a poem on the subject...

Marticelli

* 'TLA' means 'three letter acronym' and is generally used to obfuscate not inform.

[KarlLeFong]

Another picture for our Aussie friends -Albert Park, March 1956

Tony Gaze on the right of the picture but who are the other two?

The man on the left looks familar, but who is the person in the middle - a driver or in fact Gaze's mechanic?



Karl

[David McKinney]

I think it's Bib Stillwell in the middle

[KarlLeFong]

I think it's Bib Stillwell in the middle

Sorry David

Definately not Bib Stillwell....the other rather " 1950's Australian chap" in the background is even more annoying ...

Karl

[gray chandler]

My Dads old pics. Possibly Port Wakefield.

[David McKinney]

Sorry David

Definately not Bib Stillwell....the other rather " 1950's Australian chap" in the background is even more annoying ...

Karl

Have you seen other 1954/56 photos of Stillwell? I'm sticking to my guns

[KarlLeFong]

Sorry David

Definately not Bib Stillwell....the other rather " 1950's Australian chap" in the background is even more annoying ...

Karl

Viz

[David McKinney]

Yes, that's what he looked like in 1991

Your photo was taken 35 years earlier

[KarlLeFong]

Yes, that's what he looked like in 1991

Your photo was taken 35 years earlier

Quite so David, but nothwthstanding 35 years later, the picture below demonstrates it is clearly not the same person.
.
Also, photographs of Bib Stillwell in the 1950's show him with dark hair at that time while the unknown person next to Gaze is either blonde or grey.

Karl

[/IMG]

[KarlLeFong]

Quite so David, but nothwthstanding 35 years later, the picture below demonstrates it is clearly not the same person.
.
Also, photographs of Bib Stillwell in the 1950's show him with dark hair at that time while the unknown person next to Gaze is either blonde or grey.

Karl

[eldougo]

We know who she is, however what type of car and where is it.

 

[eldougo]

Who what  were and when.

 

[eldougo]

Who many TNFers went to this track and had a drive....... I did 1981 ?

 

[Catalina Park]

We know who she is, however what type of car and where is it.
 

My guess is George Street Sydney for the Poppy Day parade (Remembrance Day), the date would be 11th November but I haven't worked out the year yet! Appears to be between 1927 and 1930.

[Ray Bell]

Ron T with the car Jack took to Caversham in '62?

Yes, I went to Village Grand Prix once.

[Vitesse2]

My guess is George Street Sydney for the Poppy Day parade (Remembrance Day), the date would be 11th November but I haven't worked out the year yet! Appears to be between 1927 and 1930.

1930, probably. There's a picture of her in what looks to be the same hat in the SMH, November 8th 1930, although that only mentions her travelling in a coach and four.

 

Car - possibly a T30?

[eldougo]

Great work so far chaps .

I just found out that Gladys returned to Australia in 1928.So we in the right time frame.

Re the car i still have not been able to come up with any info. 

The Village GP was that owned by the movie group back in the 80,s.

[Catalina Park]

My car club used have an event at Village Grand Prix every year. We would draw lots for each car and then the fastest driver from each car would go into a shootout in the fastest car.
Some of the cars were dogs, you could do a full lap full throttle. I would have loved to played with tyre pressures and corner weights.
They origionally had industrial wankel engines but later on they got two cylinder snowmobile engines.

[eldougo]

Second photo is a Brabham BT 4 Climax when it arrived at Mascot airport  March 1963...... The man looks like Geoff Sykes to me just a guess.

 

I agree with you Micheal some cars were DOGS others good but the tyre were like concrete by the time i drove them in late1981 .I wonder what happened to the cars they would be great fun to fin and re build with a good motor.I  remember driving a few at a track in Anaheim L.A. at the Malibu GP it was called it was the first one in the USA.

Edited by eldougo, 10 April 2014 - 05:42.

[GD66]

Ken Shirvington ran his Lola T400 around at the Village Grand Prix to promote an upcoming Sydney F5000 meeting. There was also a story that someone tried to get out of there stealing one of the cars and was decapitated in a crash. I went a couple of times and found it great entertainment, quite good training for my job as a Sydney cabbie !
Kept my VGP licence in my wallet for years.

[Ray Bell]

It's definitely not Geoff Sykes, eldouglas...

And it's highly unlikely that it would be March 1963. Brabham did have a brand new BT4 flown in for the Warwick Farm International meeting in '63, but that was February. It was also the Australian Grand Prix, which he won from near the back of the grid after a hurried assembly of the car.

The race date was February 10, I think that's the only time that colour Brabham ever ran at the Farm.

[eldougo]

It sure is not RonTauranac also as you said RAY. Ok so it Febuary 1963 ,we are getting closer.

 

Anybody know ? What type of car is in the first photo .

[Catalina Park]

There was also a story that someone tried to get out of there stealing one of the cars and was decapitated in a crash.

Yep, it happened. I should have been there that day, a friend of mine was there as part of a Modern Motor magazine promotion (when the late Barry Lake was editor) and shortly after the Modern Motor event some bloke tried to take a car out of the place.

[eldougo]

Just found these shots of myself (bearded ) and  my Brother at the Blacktown track back on the 4th April 1984.The lap board reads Male 39.84 sec Female 40.86 sec.

I recorded a 43.40 sec and Greg 44.30 sec and back in 1981 I did 41.60 sec. track length 800 meters and 24 corners. Great Fun.

 

 

[Catalina Park]

We know who she is, however what type of car and where is it.

 

Still looking for answers and I just found this from what looks like the same location (note the Sargents Pies in both photos)... 




 

[Catalina Park]

I just realised that there is a whole series of Sam Hood photos of this event. 

Another view of the car...