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Harry Smith - Australian Grand Prix, 1951


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#101 ken devine

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 00:05

Ray i am only going on the Australian Classic Car story i posted a couple of days ago about the car competing in the1994 Dutton Rally.

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#102 RODWIL

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 00:08

Rod, you've selected the wrong option in Imageshack, you need to click on 'Forums'.



Ray,

Hope this is what you meant.

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#103 RODWIL

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 00:11

For a friend of mine I am enquiring if anyone has a picture of the car Harry Smith drove in the 1951 Grand Prix at Narrogin.



Ray, Hope this is what you meant:

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#104 RODWIL

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 00:25

For a friend of mine I am enquiring if anyone has a picture of the car Harry Smith drove in the 1951 Grand Prix at Narrogin.



Ray,

this is the photo to go with these other two, it shows the front grill of the car.


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#105 ken devine

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 00:32

I have just got out my copy of ACC Feb. 1994.The story says Clarrie Pearce of Melbourne was competing in a one-of 1947 Allard
Special which he has owned for 15 years ,it was its first outing since 1978 after finding it in a shed. Clarrie beleives it was imported into
South Australia in the early 50s and was painted BRG.The story gives the cars deminsions. Clarrie is now descaesed but he was
connected with the Devonshire Hotel in Melbourne.

#106 RODWIL

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 00:36

Rodwill that car looks great but i very much doubt that it was the Smith Special more likely the Allard special imported from the UK.
It was said that a car was retreived from a swamp near Perth WA,do you know where the swamp was? i spoke to two guys yesterday
and the both remembered the car in the same location in Leederville around1953 and never saw the car again.That location was close
to the Lake i mentioned previously and was a rubbish tip in the 50s.



Ken,

the car was left in a swap by a lake, which was near Jandakot in WA by its owner who lived in Kagoolie.
I've attched a photo of the place where the car was retrieved from, taken in 2009 by the person who pulled the car from the swamp. Note the X on the photo, which marks the area it was.
He went specially back to find this place and take this photo and send it to me.

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#107 RODWIL

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 00:45

For a friend of mine I am enquiring if anyone has a picture of the car Harry Smith drove in the 1951 Grand Prix at Narrogin.



The car was left in a swamp by a lake near Jandakot WA but its then owner that lived in Kagoolie WA.
The photo is of the swamp as it was in 2009, it was taken by the person who retieved the car in 1970.
The X marks the area where it was in the photo.
He went specially to the spot to take the photo and send it to me.

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#108 Ray Bell

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 00:52

Originally posted by ken devine
I have just got out my copy of ACC Feb. 1994.The story says "Clarrie Pearce of Melbourne was competing in a one-of 1947 Allard
Special which he has owned for 15 years, it was its first outing since 1978 after finding it in a shed. Clarrie believes it was imported into South Australia in the early 50s and was painted BRG." The story gives the cars dimensions. Clarrie is now deceased but he was
connected with the Devonshire Hotel in Melbourne.


I'm sure this will all become clearer as time goes on...

But I think it's very reasonable to accept that the description of this car as an Allard is most likely untrue. Your original picture from the '51 AGP is way too much like the later pictures Rod has provided for it to be an Allard.

If it had been an Allard:

1. Harry Smith would have entered it as such and the Narrogin paper wouldn't have said he built it himself.

2. The various Allard experts would not have told Rodney that it wasn't an Allard.

3. In particular, the grille would not be that shape.

4. In all probability, the welding of the chassis would have been neater.

#109 RODWIL

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 00:57

For a friend of mine I am enquiring if anyone has a picture of the car Harry Smith drove in the 1951 Grand Prix at Narrogin.


ken,

Clarry Pearce originally found the car in a shed in City Road, South Melbourne and asked if he could buy it.
I have all the paperwork when Clarry Pearce bought the car. The date was 15/12/1980.
The then owner wouldn't sell the car to him unless it was painted white and the wire wheels removed.
I think it was because his son had been killed in a car crash and the BRG colour and wheels reminded him of his son. (It wasn't this car he crashed)





#110 RODWIL

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 01:24



Ray
The Chassis has been hand built and does not look any thing like an Allard
The measurements are nothing like an Allard (wheel base and width)
Clarry always thought it was an Allard and the Allard experts we to kind hearted to tell him other wise I didnt have a problem with it not being an Allard when I brought the car

#111 Ray Bell

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 01:27

Originally posted by RODWIL
Ray, Hope this is what you meant:

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You're getting there, Rodney...

Looking forward to seeing more.

And I think your last post should essentially keep the 'Allard' name out of the balance of the thread. The only thing left to do now is to move poor old Ballina back into NSW.

Edited by Ray Bell, 09 February 2011 - 01:28.


#112 Terry Walker

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 04:53

Slight tarting up of pics. I get the impression that the body came from an existing sports car, modified to fit. There is something vaguel familair about the styling, exclusing the XK120 look arising from the mudguard line flowing through the doors. Could it have been a late 30s body from an imported but now defunct car, modernised a bit? Harry Smith may well have built the car, but not I susect the entire body, which has a fairly professional look to it, rather like one of those very small production UK or European cars.

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#113 Terry Walker

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 04:58

A final thought: Boltons in WA were coachbuilders for many years, mainly noted for buses but they did cars occasionally and even one or two racing car bodies after WW2. I met a grandson of the firm, Dave Bolton, in Canberra, when I worked there, and he mentioned one or two cars built by Boltons that he knew of. Their "car" period was pre and just postwar.

#114 RODWIL

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 05:40

Slight tarting up of pics. I get the impression that the body came from an existing sports car, modified to fit. There is something vaguel familair about the styling, exclusing the XK120 look arising from the mudguard line flowing through the doors. Could it have been a late 30s body from an imported but now defunct car, modernised a bit? Harry Smith may well have built the car, but not I susect the entire body, which has a fairly professional look to it, rather like one of those very small production UK or European cars.

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Terry have a look a the Buckland Race cars built by Ernie Baily in the U K

I have some photos some where of them racing in the late 1940

Google Buckland Race Cars

#115 D-Type

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 22:10

Does a photo of the car alongside an XK120 exist?

The body looks as if someone has cut an XK120 down its centreline and added in an 18 inch wide strip. Whoever built it had definitely seen an XK120 or photos of one and taken inspiration from it.

#116 RODWIL

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 23:45

Does a photo of the car alongside an XK120 exist?

The body looks as if someone has cut an XK120 down its centreline and added in an 18 inch wide strip. Whoever built it had definitely seen an XK120 or photos of one and taken inspiration from it.



A friend of mine that is an expert on Jags has looked at the car, and agrees the body profile is close to an XK120 , the doors are the wrong size and guards look close but have the wrong roll profiles
We both agree it may have been built along the shape of an XK120
I have been told that Jag may have built an XK120 prototype as early as axp 1947 so this shape could have been seen before its release in (IN 1952?) I think, its something i am still trying to track down
one of you guys may be able to help with this as a mater of interest

I will be talking to my Jag mate in a couple of weeks at the Balllarat Swap Meet he has the site next to me every year ( if any one is going and wants to talk and meet let me know)

I hope to have the car at a car show here in 4 weeks times if I can get it of the hoist and ready by them for Longford
With any luck an XK120 may be there and I will get a Photo of both cars together as a mater of interest

#117 Ray Bell

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 00:12

Like I posted before...

The XK120 was one of the reasons for Colin Murray coming to the '51 AGP. It was released in 1948, though probably not many were produced until 1949.

#118 john medley

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 02:07

.... but there was a SS100 special prewar? perhaps Pycroft Jaguar, whose body approximated XK 120 shape if my memory serves me correctly

... and Buckland bodies appeared on various makes around WW2 : Alvis, AC, Healey spring to mind

But I believe this is a side issue. What is needed is not conjecture re who/ what inspired the body shape, but rather can we work out or find out who BUILT IT? Was there a skilled , qualified, and experienced coachbuilder ( not body builder or panel beater) in Narrogin or Perth in the late 1940s? Can we identify any connection with Harry?
If I had access to a Sands Directory for Narrogin 1950, that is where I would start looking

#119 Ray Bell

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 08:46

It could also have been built by some friendly old retired coachbuilder who wanted something to keep him interested...

There would have been at least four or five serious operations going in Perth immediately before the war, I'd suggest, building hearses, some bus and service car bodies, limousines, sports bodies for enthusiasts etc.

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#120 john medley

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 10:16

Ray you are continuing to guess

I am saying, let's not guess -- Let's get to facts

At the moment we are hunting things from two different ends-- one the car as it stands, the other whatever happened back then. We should not close off either until we get them matched : that's the lovely thing about TNF: we can

#121 RODWIL

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 03:40

For a friend of mine I am enquiring if anyone has a picture of the car Harry Smith drove in the 1951 Grand Prix at Narrogin.



This may be some information of interest,

These photos were taken in 1970 after the recovery from the swamp in WA and after restoration in 1972 by Warren Scally. This may be the start of the story of the car hitting the streets rather than the race track.
In 1972 the car has been fitted with uprights for the windscreen, Warren Scally also fitted the front and rear bumpers, which were ex Hilman Minx he tells me.
He also painted the car British Racing Green.
The quality of some photos are not that great, as they have been taken from a copy of an old Super 8 movie fil, which I have of the car.

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#122 ken devine

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 09:57

So what we need to know now is who put it in the swamp.Both my contacts only saw it in the same place around 52 or 53.

#123 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 10:49

Ken, just to get this clear...

You say your contacts saw it around '52 or '53, and in the 'same place'... do you mean in the swamp or some other place? Also one photo you posted, a real find, was the one of the car spectating at a motorcycle race at Caversham.

You dated that at '54 IIRC.

#124 Wilyman

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 10:50

So what we need to know now is who put it in the swamp.Both my contacts only saw it in the same place around 52 or 53.



Ken,
Rodwill posted earlier that the car was dumped at the swamp by its ex Kalgoorlie owner. I have his name but would prefer not to disclose it.

As I've posted before, the car was seen in Kalgoorlie by self and friends. This was about the mid '60's. When seen it looked very much like the swamp find. One small thing I remember is that it had a rear axle spline? problem.
I've no idea how long the Kalgoorlie owner kept the car or when or why he dumped it but the years have closed up.

Now from its restoration and repainting BRG by Mr Scally how did it get to the Easter States owner Terry Healy? By the way, a nice restoration although later painted white.

Ken,
"Both my contacts only saw it in the same place around 52 or 53". Not clear as to what you mean?

#125 ken devine

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 11:24

As i mentioned before they saw it at a Service station in Leederville,also i am only guesing the photo i put ut was 1954 as i was given
a lot of photos from that period.

#126 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 19:56

Okay, so we're working on the surmise that the car lived around Leederville for some period during the early fifties...

That's a period where Rodney has a void in his knowledge about the car.

#127 ken devine

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 23:08

The missing link seems to be Johns friend in Kalgoorlie ,maybe John could contact him to complete the story.


#128 Wilyman

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 02:01

The missing link seems to be Johns friend in Kalgoorlie ,maybe John could contact him to complete the story.


Ken,
Your posted dating of '52 - '54 has filled a slot in the Smith cars history.
My friend Gordon, formerly of Kalgoorlie now Victoria has previously mentioned that the car found its way from Norseman possibly in the late '50's, to a Kalgoorlie used car yard, Camilleri Motors now defunct.

It was purchased from here by the Kalgoorlie owner Mr Ron Godenzie snr who may have had plans for it but apart from a reported sighting of it being driven around the back roads of Boulder and Gordon and I viewing the car at the Godenzie house nothing more was heard of it.

Gordon's next "contact" with the Smith car was through the Baskerville and Dutton's Allard magazine cuttings which he forwarded to me. He later saw the car at Phillip Island.

The swamp story throws up another short gap in the cars history, believed dumped by its Kalgoorlie owner. Then the pictures of its retrieval and restoration.
We now have further gap in the story from the time it was restored by Warren Scally in Perth to when it went through a succession of owners in the Eastern States.

The dates in this part of its provenance are now interestingly closing up and all through the interest shown by former and now its current owner and TNF members.

#129 Repco22

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 02:18

Harry Smith, a Narrogin identity and the powerhouse behind the Narrogin Car Club in the 50s, drove what is described as the Smith Spl, No 19, in the West Australian pre-race report: etc

I don't have pics of every car in the race, although I think the Battyle Library Photo Collection might have. I don't have any pic of No 19. In order to fin d out if it was an existing car, or built specially for the GP, you'd have to fluke on a passing reference in a Narrogin or other paper commenting on the drivers. I just don't know.


Terry, just re-reading your above post, in the first line, where did you get "Harry" Smith from, as driver of #19? If it was not based on an assumption that "Harold" was "Harry" then it's a critical piece of info.
It would dispel the idea, once and for all, that "Harold" Smith was another person. I've had some research help from a couple of friends with access to the Narrogin AGP program and also The Visor post race report. The program states that the event was conducted by the WASCC in conjunction with the NCSC [ Narrogin Combined Sports Club] and lists HR Smith as a member of the executive commitee of the latter. That is "Harry" and puts him right in the AGP picture. There is also a passage in the program which states that H Smith has built his first special, just in time for the GP and it's the first time this WA entrant is to be seen in competition. The Visor congratulates him for finishing the car in time, has a dig about the lack of paint and comments on it "really having a turn of speed".

#130 Repco22

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 02:31

Thanks, Rod and David, for the correction. Too many Smiths?

Can we have more on Harry's business interests in Narrogin, over and above " agency for VW and Peugeot" previously mentioned? Perhaps, if he was not the Minx builder prewar, he found a good panelbeater/coachbuilder in Narrogin postwar?

Hi John. A bit more "Harry" background; There's a newspaper article with pic of a new Peugeot 203 panel van with side windows which Harry had just driven over to Narrogin from the east. It "only took him five days" and was said to be very economical. Harry had fitted extra seats, making it a seven seater plus it would carry a substantial payload. He was promoting it as an ideal farm vehicle.
He was, at one stage, a Narrogin town councillor and it's believed he may have even been the Mayor for a stint. [Haven't checked that one yet]. He later started a travel business, conducting overseas group tours.

#131 Terry Walker

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 04:15

The source that I got the 1951 AGP Results from used the name Harold Smith in the Results, the only time I've seen Harry called Harold in print.

It could be the "I know better syndrome" at work. My full name is Terry Walker, but on more than one occasion when I've filled in a form or whatever, some officious type has changed it to Terence. The last time it happened was quite a few years ago, buying a car. I filled in the application for loan Terry Walker, and the loan contract when it came back to be signed said Terence in every slot. I refused to sign it until it was corrected, and the bloke got quite shirty. "It's okay, it doesn't matter," he said, not grasping the finer details - like me swearing, at the bottom as part of the contract, that the information in the contract is true and correct.

Harry, like Terry, is a personal name in its own right, has been for a very long time indeed. It isn't necessarily a nickname or shortened form.

I don't believe for a second that the Albany Smith and the Narrogin Smith are the same bloke.

#132 Terry Walker

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 04:30

The man himself: Harry Smith of Narrogin:

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#133 Terry Walker

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 04:43

A William Henry Robert Smith died on 1 January 2006 aged 93. Henry is often Harry in casual use.

That would make this W H R Smith 27 in 1940. Fits.

There are no less than 37 Harry Smiths - Harry not Harold or Henry - in the WA cemetery records online. Very common name. Two different H R Smiths involved in racing around that period? No problem at all.

Edited by Terry Walker, 12 February 2011 - 04:44.


#134 john medley

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 06:29

This continues to get better and better.....

Terry that photo of Harry is the one I previously referred to. I found my copy in "The West Australian" Thurs 24 September 1953.( National Library of Australia online files). The brief accompanying article said he was accompanied on the Redex Trial by J Clay of Redlands. We know a bit more about Mr Clay. It also said he intended to compete in the 1954 version. I know that Hal Moloney in the Hunter Valley has every name of every competitor( photos and details of most too) in all the big trials from 1936 onwards -- and I believe he can come to our aid....( can you ask him , Brian Lear?)

Rod, the Peugeot van story fits, too -- and those additional bits help and give us more paths to pursue

The gaps are filling nicely re the car's history, too. More will come. Terry Healy, I reckon there is stuff you can probably add that hasnt yet hit the surface

Terry, dont get tangled in that Harry/ Harold/ Henry .. Terry/ Terrence stuff: it is all a red herring and as you have found an annoyance and a frustration. I believe we can be reasonably confident that our man's name was Harry Ross Smith, that he has a still surviving brother also named after the Vickers Vimy brothers Ross and Keith Smith, we believe we know his date and Narrogin place of birth, his enlistment date WW2, his next of kin's name at that time( Lesley or Leslie.... same for Keith), we know he ended WW2 as Flying Officer, was demobbed from the RAF at Gamston UK , and was frequently mentioned as Harry from Narrogin at The Boomerang Club in the UK 1944- 46.
Terry, the WHR Smith I found was, I think, 19 in 1939, and appeared a good chance for the Hillman Minx Special we have pics of. He too finished the war as a Flying Officer --- but he wasnt the man we are seeking( see "Source" below)

All this is not yet set in concrete. We have eliminated some possibilities that became impissibolities ( quote John Cummins), and we are still searching others: Harold is probably one of these: The search for Mayors and Councillors of Narrogin might soon confirm Mayor Harry Ross Smith... At the same time isnt it distinctly strange that if Harry IS Our Harry and a real Narrogin goer who did Redex trials and dealt in VWs and Peugeots, how come his family knew little or nothing about his other motor racing activities, with this Ford V8 ?

One source of most of this personal/ WW2 info is Australia's World War 2 Nominal Roll ( just type that into " Search"). Since most was based on documents like birth certificates at time of enlistment, most appears to be accurate -- although some is not, for a variety of reasons.

Onward and upward, gentlemen

#135 Repco22

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 06:38

A William Henry Robert Smith died on 1 January 2006 aged 93. Henry is often Harry in casual use.

That would make this W H R Smith 27 in 1940. Fits.

There are no less than 37 Harry Smiths - Harry not Harold or Henry - in the WA cemetery records online. Very common name. Two different H R Smiths involved in racing around that period? No problem at all.


): Boy--this is hard work! As the Albany Smith was WHR, I thought we'd dispensed with him.
"Two different H R Smiths"?? I thought there was only one H R Smith and one listed, rightly or wrongly, as Harold. I'm simply trying to establish that the "Harold" mentioned as #19s driver in the '51 AGP program and Visor was "Narrogin/Trials Harry". As he was well known, was on the AGP committee, "H" --whichever he was--was having his first race, and only had a brief racing career [If it was Harry it fits], I think some of the printed matter might have said "not to be confused with.." if there were two of them in town. I'm pretty confident that "Narrogin Harry" is our boy until something fresh comes along .

#136 john medley

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 07:18

Me too

#137 Terry Walker

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 08:50

Sorry if I added confusion - I just wanted to make it clear that WHR Smith (Albany) wasn't HR Smith and couldn't possibly be. And that Narrogin Harry of 1951 AGP was Harry, not Henry and not Harold, even though at least one source wrongly said Harold. The fog of war . . .

Edited by Terry Walker, 12 February 2011 - 08:51.


#138 Repco22

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 09:02

At the risk of causing mass synchronised eye-rolling, I have a painfully obvious observation to make; Your humble servant has spent a lifetime studying and drawing heads but inexplicably didn't look too closely at that of #19's driver until now. Comparing all the facial features and their relationship to one another [ and especially the prominent chin] --- of both the driver and the pic posted by Terry of Harry in the rally car, I have no hesitation in saying "if that aint "Narrogin Harry" it's his twin brother."

#139 D-Type

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 10:16

~
Terry, dont get tangled in that Harry/ Harold/ Henry .. Terry/ Terrence stuff: it is all a red herring ~ ( Lesley or Leslie ~
Onward and upward, gentlemen

For future reference in similar cases: my wife, Lesley, says that Lesley is for females and Leslie for males, this is borne out by my father-in-law being Leslie. But that might be just in her family.




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#140 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 12:10

No, that's quite normal...

I have never struck a 'Lesley' who was male, nor a 'Leslie' who was female. And I've come across hundreds of them.

#141 Tim Murray

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 12:55

This used to be the norm in the UK too, but lately several female minor celebs called Leslie have appeared on the scene, plus a hulking great (male) rugby player from Tonga called Lesley Vainikolo. :well:

#142 D-Type

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 14:47

This used to be the norm in the UK too, but lately several female minor celebs called Leslie have appeared on the scene, plus a hulking great (male) rugby player from Tonga called Lesley Vainikolo. :well:

Well, would you be brave enough to tell him his name should be Leslie - or Harry Smith for that matter?  ;)

#143 Tim Murray

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 16:22

:blush:

(I'm a coward)

#144 john medley

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 20:10

Me too

#145 Wilyman

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 04:39

Surely someone can pull this thread back from the brink? I think the Toms, Dicks and Harrys will have us slipping into obscurity.

Would be nice to have Terry Healy step up to the plate again. Also anyone else who've had the Smith Special pass through their hands.

#146 Wilyman

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 10:03

Surely someone can pull this thread back from the brink? I think the Toms, Dicks and Harrys will have us slipping into obscurity.

Would be nice to have Terry Healy step up to the plate again. Also anyone else who've had the Smith Special pass through their hands.



Received this e-mail this afternoon from my friend Gordon in Victoria. " and verbatim I will quote it".

Wily,
Have received your update on the Smith Special with interest.

Firstly, when I paid you and Jim a visit at the Golden Fleece SS in Kalgoorlie it was Dec. 1974. Somehow the talk turned to Godenzie's car now known as the Smith Special. Jim mentioned the de dion rear axle which I didn't know at the time. You mentioned it and also that the car had at one time been visible from the street. That same day I drove past the Godenzie house but the car was nowhere to be seen. [To clarify this a little. The car was seen in the late '60's at this address].

Talking to Jim some years later he said he'd driven out to the address with the intention of buying the Special but it had gone.
Going on the date Scally got the car from the swamp [1970] it must have left Kalgoorlie in the same year.

Old Clarrie former Tasmanian publican now deceased, told me it had landed in Ballarat about 1975 with a stuffed motor. His panelbeater in Melbourne picked it up and stored it in the back of his shop.

Clarrie, bought the car in 1978. BRG in colour and still with bolt on wire wheels which were badly rusted.
Through his friend Lou Molina [MM Holden fame] he took the car to Lou's mechanic Sylvio Massola's workshop in Melbourne.
In the front on view of the car you forwarded in a street scene you can see further up the street to Park Towers, a large housing commission block of flats built in 1970. Sylvio's workshop cnr of Park and Montague streets Sth Melbourne today is an office complex.
This picture was possibly taken before or after the engine job.

The main gap in the story now is between the 1951 AGP and Norseman.
There are more people involved in this saga coming forward than I thought would, considering the years that have passed.

I am looking forward to the next instalment.
Regards.
Gordon.

#147 john medley

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 20:47

The snippets of info keep building.

Mention of Lou Molina and Silvio Massola opens up the probability that those among us who in the 70s/80s attended "Thursday Lunch" prepared by Lou/ bring your own red, in Sil's workshop will recall the car there, and perhaps something about it at that time. I dont -- and while I know of none from those days who are on TNF, maybe someone can entice the likes of Graeme Steinfort/ Bob King/ Harry Firth/ Greg Smith etc to share any memories.... Then again the trained chef who took Lou's place as chef to that motley crew IS part of TNF : where are you Clark Watson( and who can you round up)?

Further comment on "Lesley"/" Leslie". My reference was to the enlistment records ( in World War 2 Nominal Roll, National Archives)of only the two Narrogin-born Smiths listed there: Harry Ross Smith b 27 October 1920 listed his next of kin as " Smith, Lesley Robert" , Keith Smith b 4 August 1922 listed his next of kin as " Smith, Leslie". I am suggesting that these 2 Narrogin- born Smiths were probably brothers and that one of them couldnt spell. It was said much earlier in this thread that Keith was still alive. Even though he may not recall Harry's motor racing efforts, he can we hope recall his own date of birth -- which helps add another small brick in the wall we are patiently building

One week before the 1951 Commonwealth Jubilee Australian Grand Prix, many of the cars raced at Mooliabeenie. Can someone with better records than mine check to see if the Smith V8 Special raced that day?( NB we were told that Narrogin was the car's debut..... maybe/ maybe not...)

#148 ken devine

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 22:40

As i said sometime ago the car raced at mooliabeenie the meeting prior to the AGP.It was also listed at a mooliabeenie meeting in 1950
entered as a Ford Special in what was called a stock car race and also in a racing car event as the Smith Special.

#149 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 22:55

From memory, 'Stock Car' races of the day included road-going sports cars...

So could it be that he removed the 'road equipment' (headlights, grille as per Narrogin pic) to run in the racing car event?

Or could it have been a different car?

#150 john medley

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 00:57

Thanks, Ken. My apologies for missing that