Hi everyone,
Please forgive my complete ignorance here - I'm hoping you can help me. What exactly is a RAC homologation certificate? Is it possible to get a copy of one from the RAC that was issued way back in 1966?
I hope this isn't too daft a question - thanks!
RAC homologation certificate
Started by
Jackie
, Jan 12 2011 19:29
7 replies to this topic
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#2
Sharman
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Posted 12 January 2011 - 22:26
Yes it is possible to get a copy of the nomologation document. You need to ask the MSA quoting the correct number and pay them the required feeHi everyone,
Please forgive my complete ignorance here - I'm hoping you can help me. What exactly is a RAC homologation certificate? Is it possible to get a copy of one from the RAC that was issued way back in 1966?
I hope this isn't too daft a question - thanks!
#3
Jackie
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- 679 posts
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Posted 12 January 2011 - 22:37
Thanks! Do you mean the number of the certificate? If so, I don't have it. 
I have the registration number and chassis number of the car though.
I have the registration number and chassis number of the car though.
#4
Nick Wa
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Posted 12 January 2011 - 22:57
It is not a RAC homologation certificate but a F.I.A. homologation certificate. In the U.K. the R.A.C.'s competions' department as the agent for the F.I.A. supplied a copy for a fee. Copies supplied by the R.A.C. for British cars were in English. The document is in the form of loose leaf folder, the pages of which are photocopies of an original certified by the F.I.A.
Both the F.I.A. & the R.A.C. must have had very poor quality photocopiers because the pages were very mucky, part numbers often difficult to read and the black and white photos far from sharp.
The document describes the model of car in detail with both variations as the model evolved and various special (alternative) parts available. So a car produced in in say '63 will have a fairly basic document but when production ceases say in '68 the document may have gained many pages. Irrespective of the year of manufacture of the vehicle the last version of the document issued determined what parts where legally usable for that vehicle.
I don't think the pages in the document bore any individual stamp of the R.A.C. just just the Photostat of the original stamp. If that is the case apart from a copyright issue then if you can find someone else with a copy just photocopy theirs. If I am wrong and each page did have an individual stamp but you will have to pay mega bucks to presumably the successors of the R.A.C.'s competions' department for a certified copy!
Both the F.I.A. & the R.A.C. must have had very poor quality photocopiers because the pages were very mucky, part numbers often difficult to read and the black and white photos far from sharp.
The document describes the model of car in detail with both variations as the model evolved and various special (alternative) parts available. So a car produced in in say '63 will have a fairly basic document but when production ceases say in '68 the document may have gained many pages. Irrespective of the year of manufacture of the vehicle the last version of the document issued determined what parts where legally usable for that vehicle.
I don't think the pages in the document bore any individual stamp of the R.A.C. just just the Photostat of the original stamp. If that is the case apart from a copyright issue then if you can find someone else with a copy just photocopy theirs. If I am wrong and each page did have an individual stamp but you will have to pay mega bucks to presumably the successors of the R.A.C.'s competions' department for a certified copy!
#5
Nick Wa
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- 186 posts
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Posted 12 January 2011 - 23:03
No he means the number of the certificate, but don't worry the document refers to the model of the car not an individual car.Thanks! Do you mean the number of the certificate? If so, I don't have it.
#6
Sharman
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Posted 13 January 2011 - 08:03
I did not explain it clearly. Each vehicle type homologated has a relevant number which refers specifically to that type. The last one I obtained was for our TVR Grantura MK1, which if I remember correctly, (I can't get at it as it is in UK and my stepson is driving his aeroplane to Delhi) is No 32. If you are in the UK a quick call to the MSA will establish the number and then you can arrange the necessary mortgage.
#7
Red Socks
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Posted 13 January 2011 - 10:12
Almost right but it raises some interesting issues.It is not a RAC homologation certificate but a F.I.A. homologation certificate. In the U.K. the R.A.C.'s competions' department as the agent for the F.I.A. supplied a copy for a fee. Copies supplied by the R.A.C. for British cars were in English. The document is in the form of loose leaf folder, the pages of which are photocopies of an original certified by the F.I.A.
Both the F.I.A. & the R.A.C. must have had very poor quality photocopiers because the pages were very mucky, part numbers often difficult to read and the black and white photos far from sharp.
The document describes the model of car in detail with both variations as the model evolved and various special (alternative) parts available. So a car produced in in say '63 will have a fairly basic document but when production ceases say in '68 the document may have gained many pages. Irrespective of the year of manufacture of the vehicle the last version of the document issued determined what parts where legally usable for that vehicle.
I don't think the pages in the document bore any individual stamp of the R.A.C. just just the Photostat of the original stamp. If that is the case apart from a copyright issue then if you can find someone else with a copy just photocopy theirs. If I am wrong and each page did have an individual stamp but you will have to pay mega bucks to presumably the successors of the R.A.C.'s competions' department for a certified copy!
The homologation was applied for by the RAC comp.dept to the FIA but on behalf of the manufacturer who of course paid for the whole bang shooting match.The approved homologation document was then returned to the manufacturer confirming acceptance of their stated information. It would seem probable then the intellectual property was that of the manufacturer
The RAC kept a copy of the original in their files.The FIA kept I beleive nothing.
Over the years the manufacturuers cleared out the filing cabinets and threw the old homologations away -why would they keep them.In fact most ASN did the same thing with their copies as well.
The FIA Historic committee years later raided all the resources they could find and put togehter the best list they could of extant homologations which is the amalgamation the MSA has and ''sells'' today.
Whilst I can understand that an MSA certified copy on MSA paper is theirs to sell I am far from convinced that the general world recourced copies can be prevented form offered amonst friends on an FOC basis or indeed published here.
Whose copyright is being infringed?
#8
RS2000
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Posted 13 January 2011 - 17:30
If it's a 1966 issue you are after, the chances are there is only one set (number) of papers for the model - which is? (it can help to know , as people may have copies or be familiar with the car's homologation history)
A model that spans the old and new Appendix J on 1.1.66. or the new Appendix J for 1.1.82. will have more than one version.
An MSA embossed copy is required if presenting the papers for scrutineering for historic competition but plenty of people have photocopies for general reference.
A model that spans the old and new Appendix J on 1.1.66. or the new Appendix J for 1.1.82. will have more than one version.
An MSA embossed copy is required if presenting the papers for scrutineering for historic competition but plenty of people have photocopies for general reference.
Edited by RS2000, 13 January 2011 - 17:31.
