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Official Group Lotus Thread


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#501 Red17

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 13:43

Lotus has taken the decision to reduce the number of cars it runs from five to three for the remainder of the season.

Odd. The story running on the Indycar thread is quite the opposite. The version there says that it was the teams that sought a way out.

Edited by Red17, 26 April 2012 - 13:43.


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#502 Risil

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 13:48

Odd. The story running on the Indycar thread is quite the opposite. The version there says that it was the teams that sought a way out.


The way Indycar's complicated engine rules work means that Lotus have to agree to any attempt for a team to switch manufacturers. So technically they're right that it was "their decision".

Why Lotus are so keep to make themselves a laughing-stock with such bizarre quibbling is anyone's guess. Perhaps they're aiming their press at Chinese businessmen who don't follow the Euro-American racing world too closely. They're going to be in for a shock when the Lotuses roll into Qingdao though. Provided there are any left.

Edited by Risil, 26 April 2012 - 13:51.


#503 One

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 17:33

“I greatly welcome the recent news that DRB-Hicom has appointed a new senior manager to Group Lotus to strengthen its management. I would ask DRB-Hicom take steps to end the uncertainty by announcing its intention to invest in the plant and build on the tremendous potential which exists or to find an alternative owner who will offer credible guarantees about retaining Group Lotus in Norfolk.”


http://www.edp24.co....mours_1_1356183

So who us this new appointment?
MSN says That Lopes is planning management buyout.

#504 peacockantony

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 21:41

Odd. The story running on the Indycar thread is quite the opposite. The version there says that it was the teams that sought a way out.

What is in the Indycar thread will be the truth, and that will be the twisted bullsh*t from GL to make themselves look better. Their normal trick.

#505 MGKrebs

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 18:11

Why should Bahar set up a company Lotus-Youngman in UK before having any serious discussion between Youngman in China, before DBR_HICOM buys the Proton, if Bahar's plan was, always, to seel Lotus Group to Youngman?

[edit] spelling


That is a good question. It could be nothing, perhaps China-Youngman wants to be able to sell some stuff in the UK? Or, it could be a step in the process as described bu the Hon. Mr. Bacon:

"One way of accomplishing a transfer to a Chinese owner against the wishes of many of the interested parties would be to reach an agreement in principle to sell Group Lotus but to present it as a joint venture rather than a sale, then to wait until after the Malaysian elections—Lotus is rightly valued by many in Malaysia as a jewel in Proton’s crown and the issue could become politically divisive—and have a Chinese buyer such as China Youngman acquire 100% of the business after the Malaysian elections were safely out of the way, transferring manufacturing to a new Chinese owner later. One could even have a private side agreement to that effect."


#506 Mr Plug

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 22:18

There's a full page on Lotus in The Times today (30 April, p35). It doesn't say anything new - it is the same old "Danny says 'it's everybody's fault but mine.'" In one sense, it isn't his fault - it's the numpties who appointed a Lounge Lizard to run a car company.

I worked for nearly 35 years in the Auto industry; I dealt with MD's and Purchasing Directors, with Chief Designers and Manufacturing Directors, with Development Engineers, Draughtsmen and Technicians. I never met one of them who didn't understand the first principle of car-making: that they had to make money somewhere along the line.

Based on some of what we know, Lotus appear to have a fairly constant, basic market of about 2400 cars a year - on each of which, they apparently lose nearly £10,000. £10,000! Where in the name of Alfred Sloan did Behar get the idea that another £500million would solve the problem?

Job 1 had to be to get Lotus profitable; that he's failed to do - neither by selling more cars nor by making them individually profitable. The result is that, in a world recession and with massive over-capacity in the Auto Industry, he is now trying to sell an unprofitable niche manufacturer. I suppose the hope is that yet another Indian or Chinese company will come along with a suitcase full of dosh like they did for Rover, MG, Jaguar Land Rover, Volvo, and so on. But have Lotus got something that SAAB don't have? I reckon they could be bought for $300million......which makes Lotus worth what?

I think all Lotus lovers should prepare themselves for bad news....

#507 hunnylander

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 13:56

https://twitter.com/#!/radiolemans/stat...6/photo/1/large

#508 Mr Plug

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:43

Oooops...............

http://www.usatoday....otus/54818988/1

Raising their Indy commitment?

#509 Rob

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:57

Job 1 had to be to get Lotus profitable; that he's failed to do


From parliamentary proceedings, here is what Richard Bacon, MP for South Norfolk said.

Lotus moved in 1966 to Hethel in South Norfolk to a purpose-built facility on the site of a former US air force airfield. The business now employs around 1,400 worldwide, some 1,200 of whom work at the Hethel headquarters. In 1996, Lotus was bought by Proton Holdings, a Malaysian car manufacturer. Lotus has experienced financial difficulties at times, but it was profitable as recently as 2008-09, when the Group Lotus annual accounts show a profit before tax of £1.5 million. It is important to emphasise this point as one will find many incorrect references in the automotive press to the “fact” that Group Lotus has never made a profit since it was bought by Proton, when the actual facts are that the company has been profitable quite recently. Lotus has a great story to tell and is at the heart of an innovation cluster. The recent and growing success of the Hethel engineering centre in nurturing a variety of high-tech small businesses has been due, in large measure, to the pres ence of Lotus nearby. There are also wider benefits along the A11 corridor that my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Norfolk will address if he catches your eye, Mr Speaker.


So the facts are that Lotus was profitable before Bahar took over. Now it is in serious difficulties. Lotus needed to work on reducing costs and staying within their niche of lightweight sportscars. Bahar's vision was completely wrong for Lotus.

#510 Saturnus

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 20:44

Is the Lotus Indy effort now down to 1 team with 1 car?

#511 DanardiF1

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 00:44

Is the Lotus Indy effort now down to 1 team with 1 car?


Essentially. Just Simona and HVM.

#512 peacockantony

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 09:43

Don't think it can be called an 'effort'. All they do is pay Judd to make engines, and they haven't exactly been paying Judd have they.

#513 Kelateboy

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 09:56

From parliamentary proceedings, here is what Richard Bacon, MP for South Norfolk said.

So the facts are that Lotus was profitable before Bahar took over. Now it is in serious difficulties. Lotus needed to work on reducing costs and staying within their niche of lightweight sportscars. Bahar's vision was completely wrong for Lotus.

Could not agree with you more....


#514 DanardiF1

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 16:12

From parliamentary proceedings, here is what Richard Bacon, MP for South Norfolk said.



So the facts are that Lotus was profitable before Bahar took over. Now it is in serious difficulties. Lotus needed to work on reducing costs and staying within their niche of lightweight sportscars. Bahar's vision was completely wrong for Lotus.


As a CEO that is being paid a very high salary, Bahar should've known the financial state of the company he was being put in charge of, and set about a plan that accounted for Lotus' position in the car world. I can understand his belief in the Lotus name and badge, it's certainly a powerful brand and stands for many of the ideals that sportscar makers are looking towards again in the modern era. What Bahar did was look at that brand and entirely miss the point. He saw it as a chance to build the brand up to Ferrari/Porsche/Aston Martin levels, forgetting that Lotus only competed with these companies on the race track, and never truly in the marketplace (a high-end Lotus has always been comparable to say an entry-level Porsche).

Lotus cars have always been (relatively) affordable, exceptionally well-engineered mechanically, light and agile. Bahar's plans for executive saloons and hypercars with hybrid technology were very grand, and perfectly suited to a brand with that kind of development money, but not for what is essentially a niche sportscar maker based in rural Norfolk. He overestimated Proton's financial clout and/or their willingness to spend such a large amount of what amounts to Malaysian taxpayer's money on what at worst could be called a vanity project aimed at his former employers Ferrari and Red Bull, and what at best seems like an overly ambitious business plan for the wrong company.

#515 Risil

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 16:19

At worst? I could think of some worse things to say about it.

#516 DanardiF1

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 16:20

At worst? I could think of some worse things to say about it.


So could I, but I'm tired today... :p

#517 ascension

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 21:13

not much of a team with 1 driver.. Posted Image

#518 DanardiF1

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 21:38

not much of a team with 1 driver.. Posted Image


And she's hardly of Bourdais' quality as well... SeaBass was ragging that thing just for some top 10's. No teammates to help development, no budget to improve what engines they have... no Lotus engines at all next year methinks (or even reaching the end of this one!)...

#519 GhostR

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 11:02

Have a feeling we'll never see the 'Lotus' badged aero kits. And even if they do make them, no one will commit to them after the failures of this year.

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#520 Rob

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 11:49

Have a feeling we'll never see the 'Lotus' badged aero kits. And even if they do make them, no one will commit to them after the failures of this year.


I have a feeling Indy will be the last race for a Lotus badged engine.

#521 mechadaniel

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 16:15

A bit of good news for a change:

http://www.eveningne...hicom_1_1369527

It has also emerged that Lotus has secured enough investment from DRB-Hicom to restore full car production at its Hethel assembly plant and continue building-up to the launch of the first of its new-wave models, the Esprit supercar in 2013.



#522 BRG

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 17:55

A bit of good news for a change

Damn it, some people here will be so pissed to hear about this.

#523 Risil

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 18:30

Yep, now the taxpayer is paying for Bahar's idiocy. ;)

But seriously, I'm glad the government's stepped in to stabilise what's become a very troubled organisation. Hopefully the management's previous mistakes can be made up for.

Edited by Risil, 11 May 2012 - 18:33.


#524 hippie

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 22:09

A bit of good news for a change:

http://www.eveningne...hicom_1_1369527

Apparently Proton has to pump in between £5 million and £8 million a week into Bahar's plans to renew Lotus, so the British government has secured two extra weeks of car production at Hethel with their £10 million loan.

#525 mechadaniel

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 14:11

So Bahar is suspended and unlikely to been seen again at Lotus, now remember the bloke with the improbable name Datuk Seri Syed Zainal Abidin ?

Nope?

OK, a clue:

Posted Image

The Proton MD that was covering Bahar's behind.

Well. he is gone. And the Proton CFO:

http://paultan.org/2...ns-from-proton/

Following a number of media queries, Proton Holdings Berhad today wishes to confirm the resignation of Datuk Seri Syed Zainal Abidin Syed Mohamed Tahir as the Group Managing Director of Proton Holdings Berhad, effective July 4, 2012.

Syed Zainal has been with Proton for over six years and we are grateful for his contributions to the company. He has decided to leave Proton on his own accord to pursue his own interests and we respect his decision. We also wish to announce the resignation of Chief Financial Officer Azhar Othman from Proton, effective July 6, 2012. We wish them all the best in their future endeavours.

Following the departure of Syed Zainal, the Executive Chairman of Proton, Datuk Seri Mohd Khamil Jamil, will continue his leadership role in steering the company forward.


Edited by mechadaniel, 29 May 2012 - 14:12.


#526 King Six

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 15:16

Well it's not all a disaster for the British motor industry:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-18250315

Are Jaguar in any kind of motorsports these days? I haven't really seem them around I don't think...

#527 midgrid

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 15:26

Well it's not all a disaster for the British motor industry:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-18250315

Are Jaguar in any kind of motorsports these days? I haven't really seem them around I don't think...



There were some rumours flying around last year about a return to Le Mans at some point in the future, but nothing concrete so far.

#528 HistoryFan

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 19:38

With support of Williams I guess

#529 mechadaniel

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 23:27

Interesting article on the Bahar suspension:

http://skiddmark.com...ave-done-wrong/

The author Steve Davies is an ex KPMG partner, and has an explanation to why Bahar has been "temporally" suspended rather than fired

#530 Disgrace

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 18:40

Lotus facing increasingly uncertain future.

Most worrying for Lotus fans is the apparent cessation of all new model development... now Top Gear has learned that all future projects have either been significantly delayed or cancelled altogether.


... production was recently halted for a fortnight, amid continuing rumours that suppliers are having problems being paid on time: some suppliers are threatening legal action over non-payment.


... Lotus has amassed millions of pounds of supplier debt which is now more than 90 days overdue. This leaves the firm open to winding up actions from its creditors. Lotus is also trying to defer other payments in an attempt to stabilise its cashflow.


... Top Gear understands that freelance design and engineering contractors have been released, leaving departments short-staffed.


... [Bahar] is suing Lotus for wrongful dismissal, as are the Heads of HR and Legal, both of whom were dropped from their posts this summer.


... future marketing activities have been cancelled.


Edited by Disgrace, 02 October 2012 - 18:41.


#531 korzeniow

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 19:28

What a mess

#532 gm914

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 19:49

Suing the Company you personally ruined...that's rich.

#533 BRG

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 11:08

Suing the Company you personally ruined...that's rich.

Whereas it sounds like the new management have really got a handle on things... :rolleyes:

Bahar was Lotus's last hope. He had some sort of vision for the future. Now it will just collapse because the new owners don't have clue #1 about what they are doing.

#534 dau

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 11:16

Whereas it sounds like the new management have really got a handle on things... :rolleyes:

Bahar was Lotus's last hope. He had some sort of vision for the future. Now it will just collapse because the new owners don't have clue #1 about what they are doing.

"Some sort of vision" sums it up very well.

#535 WBarnato

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 19:32


http://jalopnik.com/...-bloated-esprit

Well then, that's a chapter closed. I doubt the V8 will see the light of day and with no new models I wonder how much longer for Zimmerman and Coco?

#536 jcbc3

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 06:27

Alas not.

They just updated the article. The development is NOT stopped according to Lotus.

#537 WBarnato

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:57


Well slap my thighs for being too quick off the mark!

#538 jcbc3

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:46

Mind you, Lotus has made statements before, that didn't turn out to hold water.....

#539 WBarnato

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:03


Ha ha! The famous "Dany Bahar is still in charge" one ring any bells? Or indeed "Lotus is returning to Indycar" or "Lotus is developing its own V8 engine". There have been so many over the past few years.

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#540 CatInTheBag

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:47



Group Lotus is now facing legal action over non-payment of debts, totalling £30mil at 90 days overdue. Cash flow is also believed to be at critical level and that overhead base is too high for business.
Dismissed Lotus CEO Dany Bahar is also suing DRB-Hicom for alleged gross misconduct. :lol:

DRB-Hicom wants to get rid of the company but nobody dares touch it, incl the Chinese.

#541 LHKEAT

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:15

Group Lotus is now facing legal action over non-payment of debts, totalling £30mil at 90 days overdue. Cash flow is also believed to be at critical level and that overhead base is too high for business.
Dismissed Lotus CEO Dany Bahar is also suing DRB-Hicom for alleged gross misconduct. :lol:

DRB-Hicom wants to get rid of the company but nobody dares touch it, incl the Chinese.


If the global economy power such as china automotive company not dares to pick up the big shit created by Proton then Group lotus is no more hope. Better let it closed down and file a bankrupt no need to pay any more debts. Even the more latest Volvo & Saab being rescued by the chinese. I do agree Lotus group & Team Lotus should be falls under chinese hand. Land rover & Jaguar also well managed by Indian Tata. Volvo is doing great too after in chinese hand from ford. hahaha selling 1 euro out testing whether can success fishing any wealthy car automaker willing to take huge risk.

Edited by LHKEAT, 11 October 2012 - 08:17.


#542 One

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:03

Lotus was doing OK in its old form...

#543 eronrules

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:06

group lotus really doesn't have anything to do with LoturF1, so their fate won't affect LotusF1's performance. this thread will soon become redundant IMO :wave:

#544 One

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:07

Just tyhat there is not much reason what so ever to cheer about what Lotus is ding at Formula One if you like Lotus cars ever and if you like ACBC... ah, an old subject, exit for me.

#545 Disgrace

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:13

Group Lotus still has (had?) something to do with Indycar engines and sponsorship in other series, this thread isn't redundant yet.

#546 One

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:17

Group Lotus still has (had?) something to do with Indycar engines and sponsorship in other series, this thread isn't redundant yet.


Thay have got None at the most important spot. Sorry, I kinda like Kimi is running Lotus now, but it makes me think twice about a team from Luxemburg is running Lotus name.
Bahar exit made these:
1. Caterham which was more dedicagted to Lotus Heritage is now no longer interested in the Heritage that it deserves activities.
2. Knowledge that a raws of guys related to Lotus has sold their soul to Dany;'s money.
3. Lotus Cars cpould not see any future other than Dany's crazy idea.
4. Lotus is about to be vanished from the scene yet again.
OK... Let me stop... I am out here... woo so painful...

#547 Gag Bueno

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 00:22

I don't know if posting in this thread makes any sense more, since even the motorsport "branding" activities appear to have finished, but Group Lotus PLC seem to have been liquidated today, according to the information here. Sad end for ACBC's heritage...

#548 swerved

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 00:29

I don't know if posting in this thread makes any sense more, since even the motorsport "branding" activities appear to have finished, but Group Lotus PLC seem to have been liquidated today, according to the information here. Sad end for ACBC's heritage...


The almost obligatory rebuttal.

http://www.telegraph...tion-claim.html

In fact i think the petition was dismissed.


#549 packapoo

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 03:57

The Lotus head has popped up again in the form of an LMP2 entry in the World Endurance Series.

Can anyone shed any light on the Lotus linage here, please?
Can't be a carry over from the Bahar days, can it?

Would assume the F1 team have their hands full dealing with their own team and that what was left of the Lotus road car operation wouldn't stretch to this entry.

#550 DanardiF1

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 06:51

The Lotus head has popped up again in the form of an LMP2 entry in the World Endurance Series.

Can anyone shed any light on the Lotus linage here, please?
Can't be a carry over from the Bahar days, can it?

Would assume the F1 team have their hands full dealing with their own team and that what was left of the Lotus road car operation wouldn't stretch to this entry.


Isn't it Kolles' outfit who still have a licensing agreement with Lotus from running some Lolas in LMP2 over the last couple of years? They're building their own car under the Lotus name for this year (funnily enough with the same codename as the 2010 Lotus Racing F1 car)...